[OT] Trading - Please read

[Xora]

Another recent case is the deal between Bechy2k2 and darkelf http://forums.diabloii.net/showthrea...4&page=1&pp=10. In that tread Xora says that "this isnt the first occurance of strange goings on with you and anni trades." refering to darkelf. I myself made a bid on that Anni which I may not have done knowing darkelfīs history in dealing with Annis.

We cannot go banning people without a decent amount of proof, that is all that needs to be said about that thread at the moment. In my opinion that would cause many more problems than it would solve.

If you would like a feedback system, then that is what rpgtraders has, so take a look there

[nailstabber]

I'd hate if these forums turn into something I can find in the trade channels.

...and especially the fact that this(ETF) is the one place i feel safe and secure to trade annis/torches, I can't really comprehend how people can abuse other peoples trust ro get more wealthy (and to add to that, more wealthy in a virtual world??)...whatever happened to morals????

indeed, this is the one place i'm at peace with trades, the members and (most of all) the mentality. And what happens lately isn't so much as an attack on trust, as it is an attack on the whole feeling/belonging/being home here. (again that's just how i feel about it.) don't know quite how else to put it so i hope i'm making some sence here. I like it here, i've liked it here since the verry first post, and i'll be damned if i let it be ruined by some pathetic loosers.

[Xora]

indeed, this is the one place i'm at peace with trades, the members and (most of all) the mentality. And what happens lately isn't so much as an attack on trust, as it is an attack on the whole feeling/belonging/being home here. (again that's just how i feel about it.) don't know quite how else to put it so i hope i'm making some sence here. I like it here, i've liked it here since the verry first post, and i'll be damned if i let it be ruined by some pathetic loosers.

So, we need to do something to combat it, rather than let it become a regular thing. I hope you all agree on that?

This is the purpose of this thread, apart from anything else, to bring it to people's attention so things like this have far less chance of happening

I really do think that this is something that we have to pull together on as a group, perhaps not to be so trusting but hopefully be able to still welcome new members here, and keep this as the kind of community that is honest and scam-free.

[Molen]

We cannot go banning people without a decent amount of proof, that is all that needs to be said about that thread at the moment. In my opinion that would cause many more problems than it would solve.

If you would like a feedback system, then that is what rpgtraders has, so take a look there

I don't know if I expressed myself badly or if you misunderstood but I wasn't calling out for anyone to be banned(Iīm completely with you on the issue of proof). I just took that deal as an example where a comment/feedback system could have helped me make a more informed decision regarding if I would bid on the item offered or not.

If you think a simple comment/feedback system(which is commonly used all over the internet where trading is going on) is causing more problems than itīs worth, so be it, it was just a suggestion and I guess it isnīt appropriate everywhere.

[Xora]

I don't know if I expressed myself badly or if you misunderstood but I wasn't calling out for anyone to be banned(Iīm completely with you on the issue of proof). I just took that deal as an example where a comment/feedback system could have helped me make a more informed decision regarding if I would bid on the item offered or not.

If you think a simple comment/feedback system(which is commonly used all over the internet where trading is going on) is causing more problems than itīs worth, so be it, it was just a suggestion and I guess it isnīt appropriate everywhere.

Ah, maybe i did misunderstand slightly, i just wanted to make it clear why i/we will not ban someone without proof.

However, there is a sister trading system linked to here with the feedback system, ie rpgtraders.net, and perhaps yes, that might be much better way to trade those items that anot be traded in a window. A sytsem like that isnt likely to be made here, simply because it is already active there, although i do agree with you that it could have huge benefits.

As i understand it, the idea is that most trades will eventually be completed through the system there though.

[richo]

the only thing this thread can point in my eyes are 3 things....

1#: always trade with window trade (exception anni/torch/gheed)
2#: becarfull with who you trade (postcount/history)
3#: dont trust pple with low postcount to soon (trust is alright but being carefull is important to)

ETF is in my eyes a friendly community we must not let this scamming from lately be a regular thing and make this forum as untrusty as others, I was never been scammed in a forum trade ever cause i watch out well enough as do most pple, and pple who trust pple TO much will get scammed eventualy. Trust on this forum is needed else we are like any other trading forum (witch we dont like to end up to), so i would say get youre axes and kill the scammers

this post does sound a little weird but i hope it will help pple, dont get me the wrong way i trust anyone witch i trade with but i dont trust blindly

[krischan]

As this thread got unstickied, it finally catched my attention as well

Regarding rerurned banees: Xora and I are checking each user we don't know. However, if a banned person is clever and doesn't make the usual mistakes (which I won't tell, for obvious reaons), it's very hard to detect him. It's the same with scams. The only way to avoid getting scammed by them is checking their post count and demanding him to drop first. Nearly nobody prepares for a scam by being active for months.

1. If you are rather new here, don't drop-trade expensive stuff with other newcomers if you don't have first-hand knowledge about their credibility. Trade with the others and accept that you will have to drop your anni/torch/gheed's first.

2. If you are an old timer, demand from the low post count people to drop first, if it's about a drop trade. Refuse to trade if they don't.

3. When trading reguler items with people you don't trust 100%, use the trade window.

4. Exchange bnet account names before trading. Don't try to save time by skipping that part. If a scammer reads a thread where this happens, he might make a new account with a "matching" name, twisting a letter and tries to scam you.

It seems people got a little careless when trading torches because there are so many of them and everybody wants them. Scammers know that and if people fight over their items, they know that they might have success with demanding things like others dropping first or letting them do ground trades. Greed, eagerness and naivety is attracting scammers.

It's not that all of the ETF is a bunch of nice people. It never was like that. That might be true among those who are here for a year or longer, but some those who are here for just a few weeks or months might have not not having that feeling yet while others are just waiting for a chance to get away with some kind of scam. Old timers sometimes seem to be a little too romantic about this issue.

I hope I don't offend our new members too much, but it's simply a fact that most scammers are people with a low post count because they get banned sooner or later. Most of them are honest and those who play the game long enough and have fun here turn into old timers. If you want to become a respected member, you have to do something for it and be patient.

[marcello]

This is the one place where i actually feel safe about dropping an expensive item, this forum - in comparition to others, have a better "core" with old school people, and some newcomers, while at other forums, new people register everyday and scam.

Iīm extremely happy that ETF is what it is.

[dragosbaby]

I want to add something.

The times i do trades here, i sometimes feel that the other trader is waiting a little time, and then when i say im ready, they start dropping items on the ground. It feels as if hey are a little vary, but nevertheless they dont ask for a window trade.
Its ok to ask for windowstrade, and if it makes you feel better even though youre a newcomer, then please ask for it. Noone will say no to that request.
I also witness a lot of trades where people willingly drop ist runes on the ground, and i simply dont get this. This hasnt got to do with trust, but it could easily backfire on both in the game. If the game crashes while youre gone(changing mules) what will happen then. Will you trust the guy that stayed in the game with your runes on the ground, that they are gone. Or will you think he stole them ?

Use the window when possible. I dont mind the times i trade jewels, and i always say that i will take the loss if the game crashes, but when people ask me to mule a few thngs and i agree, and i see them dropping ists on the ground, then im not ok ^^ Same when they say. Look at this item and they drop it on ground hehe. Thats just annoying. Dont drop nice items when you could show it easily in the window. Use the window for muling too. Its just safer all around.

Have many suggestons that would prevent scams alltogeher, but all of them are timeconsuming and ive done it before ^^ Would require a larger pm box as well hehe


dragosbaby

[Xora]

I agree with alot you say dragos. I think people get under the impression they need to look trusted (by dropping things) else it appears bad-mannered or somesuch which just isnt the case, but i think that can be how they feel.

Listen to what drago is saying, the post above makes alot of sense