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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    In Iraq, the Shiites are trying to work together with the Sunni's to prevent a CW.
    You should visit some military forums where there are active duty soldiers posting - some from Iraq itself. The debate isn't even whether there'll be civil war. It's a given. The debate is who will jump in.

    While the Shiites want to work together, the Sunnis just can't comprehend the concept. They've been the military for the last 4 decades.

    It may look like Vietnam now. When we leave, it's going to look like Bosnia.




  2. #82
    IncGamers Member llad12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    What, is that a "concession"?
    Absolutely, I concede to a wannabe Republican schoolboy that is completely clueless about the Iraqi situation.

    Sorry, but it ain't worth my time fella ...




  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by llad12
    Absolutely, I concede to a wannabe Republican schoolboy that is completely clueless about the Iraqi situation.

    Sorry, but it ain't worth my time fella ...
    Aren't you supposed to be like 50? You act like a 10-year-old sometimes.




  4. #84
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    No one ever claimed our soldiers were the brightest crayons in the box. Then again, neither are the people sending them there.




  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Technetium
    Aren't you supposed to be like 50? You act like a 10-year-old sometimes.
    I know you are but what am I?



    ------------------------------------------
    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    I think the war was wrongly started. But I'm not goint to sign a petition that will make their sacrifices null and void. Once the goal in Iraq is completed, I'll happily sign any petition requesting a withdrawl. But as some mothers who lost sons and daughters in Iraq put it, "I won't let their deaths be for nothing." As wrong as the war is, it would be even worse to let them die for nothing.
    the FACT that the war was wrongly started makes all of their sacrifices null and void to begin with -- dont blame me, blame the dub and his chronics

    save those who remain by bringing them home NOW




  7. #87
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llad12
    You know what the real tragedy was in Viet Nam?

    Answer: We should have let them have their UN-mandated 1956 democratic elections. Sure Uncle Ho would have been elected. He was the overwhelming favorite of the people. Regardless, his election would have reunited their country. Instead, we stopped their election; supported the corrupt South Vietnamese government, and divided the nation.
    Actually, I'm somewhat in agreement. If we had let your Uncle destroy his population in a violent & bloody civil war, and simply twiddled our thumbs and said, "tsk, tsk", perhaps the domino theory wouldn't have played out the way it did. We might have never seen the successes of the USSR in co-opting U.S. left and isolationist elements, or at least to the same extent. We certainly would have been less embarassed on the world stage, and other countries would have had to be more serious about their commitment against world Communism. Heck, we might have even seen Cambodia run the other way, and the killing fields would have been in 'Nam and Burma only. But my, isn't it fun playing "what if".

    Quote Originally Posted by llad12
    As it turned out, following 58,000 American soldiers and 2 million Vietnamese dead, they reunited it anyway.

    I guess all that war and death makes you a happy camper tho ... :rolleyes:
    Light on fact and heavy on ad hom, that's my boy. But then, you're gullible enough to think that the North were actually freedom fighters. I bet you still have your love beads hidden somewhere... if not your first water pipe.




  8. #88
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    Got a problem with water bongs there merv? I learned on an 18" Graffix myself. Haven't touched the stuff in a while though.

    With regards to the war, since the conversation has taken a turn in that direction, some comments from the Saudi Foreign Minister that some might find interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reuters
    Iraq is heading toward disintegration, raising fears of a wider regional conflict, Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal warned on Thursday.

    He said he did not believe the country was engulfed in full-scale civil war but the trend was moving in that direction.

    The comments, to journalists invited to meet with the foreign minister at the Saudi Embassy, marked the second time in two days Saud spoke publicly of his alarm over developments in Iraq and appeared to reflect a growing disagreement between the kingdom and the Bush administration.

    "Iraq is a very dangerous situation and a very threatening situation," he said.

    "The impression is gradually going toward disintegration. There seems to be no dynamic now that is pulling the country together. All the dynamics there are pushing the (Iraqi) people away from each other," he said.

    Asked what Saudi Arabia feared most about the trend, Saud said, "It will draw the countries of the region into conflict and that is the main worry of all the neighbors of Iraq."

    He referred specifically to Iran, which is backing and supplying Shi'ites in Iraq, and to Turkey, which would not permit a separate Iraqi Kurdish state on its border.

    The Iraq war and occupation have cost nearly 2,000 American lives, untold thousands of Iraqi lives and over $200 billion but there has been little progress in stopping a bloody Sunni Arab insurgency that began soon after the 2003 invasion.

    Saudi Arabia, a Sunni Muslim country, has voiced fears an Iraqi constitution, due to be put to a referendum in four weeks, could split the country apart and disenfranchise a Sunni minority that lost power after the U.S.-led invasion.

    Saud said the Sunni-Shi'ite division was not pronounced under ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, a Sunni, but was inflamed when the postwar U.S. occupation authority disbanded the Iraqi army and banned members of Saddam's Baathist Party from jobs and leadership positions.

    He said Iraqi Sunnis were only seeking jobs and guarantees of security. He urged the Shi'ite majority who now hold much of the political power in Iraq to reach out to the Sunnis and assure they will be "equal citizens."

    Saud said he did not see a purposeful U.S. policy to divide Iraq into Sunni, Shi'ite and Kurdish states but "this is what is going to happen if things continue as they are."

    He did not urge Iraq to reject the constitution but said the key would be how the document was implemented.

    Saud said the Bush administration and his government agreed Iraq should free, prosperous and united.

    But he said when he raised concerns about growing political divisions, the Americans noted that many doubted the wisdom of holding elections in Iraq, which turned out well, and they expressed confidence the constitution would also be a success.

    Saud repeated concerns he made to the Council on Foreign Relations on Tuesday that Iran was increasingly interfering in neighboring Iraq, including providing money and weapons to fellow Shi'ites.

    He expressed concern Iran may be reneging on a pledge with neighboring states to support a nuclear-free Middle East but indicated a preference for dialogue to referring the issue of Iran's nuclear activities to the U.N. Security Council as Washington has demanded.
    EDIT: You know, on second thought, perhaps a nice ****storm of a war is what the Middle East needs to settle everyone down. Worked for Europe after the first three or four.




  9. #89
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Urp - wow, man, double post!

    Quote Originally Posted by DC
    Got a problem with water bongs there merv? I learned on an 18" Graffix myself. Haven't touched the stuff in a while though.
    Hey, they're your brain cells. Do as thou wilst... me, I piddled all over the bathroom when I first tried it, and realized I preferred destroying mine through drink.




  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreezerBurn
    No one ever claimed our soldiers were the brightest crayons in the box.
    Given that since we moved to an all-volunteer military (no more army or jail types) and now require a GED to enlist, I think you're wrong. Plus, there are education opportunities once you're in. I'd argue that the intelligence level in the military is exactly the same as the intelligence level of civilians. In your case, perhaps not so equal, but within standard error. You did manage to log in on a computer after all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger
    ]Let's keep it on the subject rather than to argue that soldiers are trained to kill. That isn't the problem regarding this subject. This is a problem of ethics and values of soldiers doing their own thing to get their jollies and they should be disciplined.
    Pfft, your rational thoughts have no place in this thread.




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