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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by llad12
    There is a dark side to military training. To be a good soldier, one must be ablle to kill without remorse. They must fight this way as their opponents have been taught the same. Such training goes against nearly everything one has has been taught since childhood.
    True.

    Veterans rarely come back from combat the same. Most can cope with it. Some never adjust. Nightmares of war may often haunt veterans for the rest of their lives.
    True.

    Nothing that McVeigh did can be justified. Prior to the attack on September 11th, The OKC bombing was the most heinious terrorist attack on American soil. McVeigh's training and hardened combat experiences, however, undoubtably influenced his thinking and somehow made it easier for him to justify his twisted actions ... including the death of children.
    True.

    But do his actions and the actions of others justify using the tragedy we call war for political gain? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by llad
    Still pissed from our last thread 'eh?
    No, I'm pissed because you're using our soldiers and tragedy for your own political gain. It's a disservice to them and a disservice to the people who have died and will die as a result of this horrible and unnecessary war.




  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    You clearly have no idea what it's like to be a soldier, so please, I beg you, stop. Do you honestly think that soldiers are nice guys from Hollywood who will drop their gun if their opponent doesn't have one and duke it out? No. As much as I hate to say it, part of being a soldier is partly being a monster. You have to be able to kill without hesistation and disregard the public eye. It's a horrible but necessary job.
    I would just like to make a reminder that this thread subject is not really about the need for soldiers to be capable of killing. It's about how the soldiers in question regard their killings as humorous, and how they express murderous racism towards the people we are supposedly trying to build good public relations with.




  3. #53
    IncGamers Member Dondrei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    I'm not saying they should be suicide bombers, but the only thing on their minds should be "destroy the enemy."
    Actually the only thing on their mind should be "obey orders".

    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    The British?
    Please provide me with a link.




  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technetium
    I would just like to make a reminder that this thread subject is not really about the need for soldiers to be capable of killing. It's about how the soldiers in question regard their killings as humorous, and how they express murderous racism towards the people we are supposedly trying to build good public relations with.
    As I mentioned, it is part of being a soldier. Don't be surprised or even angry at them. It is what they have to be in some respects. Feel sorrow for the innocent people who had to endure the horrible things done to them by our soldiers as a result of this war.

    I don't think they even need punishment. I think they need help. Sadly, no one can provide that help, as once you cross, you can't come back. It's the sad fact of war. As for the politicans and other people who allowed this to happen on the other hand... that's a different story. Heads should roll.


    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Don
    Actually the only thing on their mind should be "obey orders".
    The job of the officers should be to restrain his troops. Orders are a part of an organized military unit yes, but once you're in combat, things like "don't shoot that mosque even if you're being shot at" should instantly go away. That's not a part of combat- that's a part of politics. And politics has no place in war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don
    Please provide me with a link.
    http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...1DC6B7E95E.htm

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...424077,00.html




  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    You might misinterpret that as humbleness, but as someone well-trained about the subject at hand, I can tell you that it's the truth. It only seems heroic from your limited perspective. To the rest of us, it's our duty, and there is nothing heroic about that. It's only heroic if you watch others do it as you sit back on the sidelines. The worst part about this job is that most of the people you're fighting for will never know what you did for them. But then, that's part of the job too.
    Where did you do basic, Module? Parris Island or Pendleton? I'm interested because you claim to know so much about it. Or at least, are accusing others of not knowing.




  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by maccool
    Where did you do basic, Module? Parris Island or Pendleton? I'm interested because you claim to know so much about it. Or at least, are accusing others of not knowing.
    I haven't had to. And of course some will say I have no authority.

    But I've prepared for war since I was in fifth grade buddy, metally and physically. I realized a lot of things that most of you probably haven't about war. I've been raised that way.

    Don't believe what I say? Ask a soldier who's see war himself. Ask him if he's changed because of it. Ask him about what I said and ask him if it's true. I'd encourage you to do so, even. Hopefully it will help you understand how horrible war is and the sacrifices that need to be made.

    Go ahead and argue that I don't have the authority. I know what it's like and that's all that's important. And, if you don't believe me or think I'm being ridiculous and ignorant, ask a soldier who's been there.




  7. #57
    IncGamers Member llad12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mod
    No, I'm pissed because you're using our soldiers and tragedy for your own political gain. It's a disservice to them and a disservice to the people who have died and will die as a result of this horrible and unnecessary war.
    Wars are always political.

    The only gain to see from this war ... is its end.




  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by llad12
    Wars are always political.

    The only gain to see from this war ... is its end.
    Just because it is doesn't mean it should be.




  9. #59
    IncGamers Member Garbad_the_Weak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llad12
    To be a good soldier, one must be ablle to kill without remorse.
    Actually, no one gives a damn about remorse. They just want you to obey without hesitation. Straw.

    But at least you made the effort to get some coherency, so I won't flame it too much.

    Garbad




  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Module88
    I know what it's like and that's all that's important.
    Well, of course you do. Because you haven't actually done anything, but you have been 'preparing' for the last 7 years. A truly inspired argument. I'm surprised you didn't play the 'my daddy is/was in the military' card.

    As to the original issue, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I prefer tits to corpses, myself.




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