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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator
    Clearly you have little understanding of evolution. Given the conditions on earth 4 billion years ago, it is very likely that those amino acids would have formed, and that life would have started on it's journey. 4 billion years is a long time, and it was only a mtter of time before that life became more complicated.

    IT seems much more liekly to me that we evolved using the things we know exist than by something that just sounds pretty made up. How can you possibly say your god (or jesus or whatever) is the right one when there are so many different ideas about what this god thing is all about. don't you think that's pretty arrogant?



    so your argument is there is a god because I can't imagine it?

    How about this. Aside from our existence--which could have come from god or from the current scientific theory, what reason do I have to bother believing in any god, much less yours?

    none of the gods that people believe in today have any effect on my life at all.

    So why believe in them? what advantage does altering my belief structure to yours mean for me? I can see lots of deteriments, as if I believe in god, I lose science, which has helped explain a lot about this world.

    Is there any REAL advantage for me while here on this planet? because you haven't convinced me of the existence of heaven either.


    It seems to me, science aids me greatly, and religion--any of them, not so much. belief in god certainly didn't bring me this laptop, or heck, even fire.
    1) lets explode the bricks and stuff for 4 billion years and see a nice mansion ok?

    2) I was addressing the issue of imagining something outside time, nothing about imagining a God.

    3) I'm not preaching about MY God, we're debating over whether there could be one.

    4) We're also not talking about the advantages of believing.




  2. #62
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    On the topic of not being able to determine an origin of a "benevolent hyper-dimensional intelligence" (i.e., a god), a thought-provoking illustration is Asimov's The Last Question (linky).

    Because a god is by definition outside our space-time continuum, he could very well have originated in our future. But because he exists outside this "existence", he has simultaneous access to all of history, thus appearing to have always existed--with no means of proving otherwise, simply because he would exist outside any possible human frame of reference.

    And nothing is outside of the confines of time. Time is the be all, end all.
    On the contrary, it seems to be merely a part of this universe. Experiments testing general relativity have even shown that its rate of passage is fluid to some degree (or at least apparently so to an observer). If there are other universes, or if there have been other universes before this one, there is no way to tell if they had "time", or even anything resembling it. The problem is only that because we exist within time it is impossible for us to conceive how anything could operate outside it. The reasoning is not wholly unlike that of a two-dimensional creature attempting to comprehend a three-dimensional existence--the most that can ever be observed or affected is a tiny cross-section (in our case as relating to time, the present).

    Anyhow, hyperspace and n-dimension theories are very interesting to try and wrap your brain around. The only trouble is that there as yet is no way of confriming or disconfirming their existence. Though I heard there are some upcoming experiments based on string theory, and if strings are shown to exist then things could get very interesting indeed :P




  3. #63
    IncGamers Member Moosashi's Avatar
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    So what if God is needed to create the universe? If that's all he's good for, what's the sense in praying to him, loving him, hating him, avoiding sin, desiring an after life, etc.? If I am to believe God has his hand in human morality, then I need to see more evidence of an active role.




  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosashi
    So what if God is needed to create the universe? If that's all he's good for, what's the sense in praying to him, loving him, hating him, avoiding sin, desiring an after life, etc.? If I am to believe God has his hand in human morality, then I need to see more evidence of an active role.
    That part is between you and your religion (or lack thereof)




  5. #65
    IncGamers Member Moosashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryo
    That part is between you and your religion (or lack thereof)
    My mind is made up, but I think many religious people have not considered the ramifications of logically justifying the existence of God. If you have faith only because you believe God must exist for the universe to exist, then you should really consider why you buy into the rest of whatever your religion teaches about the nature of the universe, man and morality. If you must have a rational basis for your belief in God, shouldn't you also have rational basis for your belief in everything else? It also follows that it would be unfair to use the argument that God must have created the universe to try to convince someone that, say, Jesus Christ died for their sins.




  6. #66
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    "Christians don't believe in gravity" sums it up nicely




  7. #67
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    STOP STOP STOP STOP THIS MIND BOGGLING THAT PUZZLED MANKIND FOR SO COUNTLESS CENTURIES!

    im sorry i brought this topic up about God.
    I conclude that there is NO SCIENTIFIC OR MATH FORMULAS to PROOVE OR DISPROOVE the existance of God. it is an endless battle. both sides of the argument have good points... It is only through the sacred texts(aka Bible, torah. qo ran. or other sacred texts) in which humans may or may not choose not to believe in God. its up to an individual to decide to believe or not to believe .before some nutjob over zealot (atheist or theist) force his beliefs on to us and create a new cult in this forum, this topic has got to stop.
    ..(i for one chose to believe and keep the faith and i will not preach or force my belief in you. I can only give you my reason to believe in God SEE FIRST CAUSE. if u dont believe in first cause then its no use to re-explain it again)

    FREET I BEG YOU TO CLOSE THIS THREAD! im sorry. :(

    if Freet chose not to close this thread then can we discuss something MORE RELEVANT TO CONTEMPORARY HUMAN LIFE?

    lets move on to a new topic.
    What is the purpose of mankind within this universe? Does mankind determine the purpose/destiny? why are we here?

    b4 i end this short essay i gotta say gg to everyone presenting both sides of the argument. and kept ad-homonims to the minimum




  8. #68
    IncGamers Member CyberHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanteAlastor
    FREET I BEG YOU TO CLOSE THIS THREAD! im sorry. :(


    You have nooo idea..

    Some call it an hornet's nest.




  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHawk
    You have nooo idea..

    Some call it an hornet's nest.
    you lost my train of thought what are u saying?

    i dont know the idiom, hornet's nest, plz explain?




  10. #70
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    I respect anyone who believes moving the topic from 'Does God exist?' to 'Does man have a destiny?' will in anyway make things less mind boggling.

    It won't, but I respect you all the same...




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