Syrian-run puppet government of Lebanon resigns

[Drosselmeier]

Well, I hate to rush to the defense of military adventurism, but the fact is that things are going pretty well in the middle east right now, and if anyone doubts that the huge hulking 800lb gorilla that is the US military, currently camped out in Iraq has everything to do with these other events, then they are deluding themselves.

In many ways, the avowed goal of the neo-cons in power to redraw the political map of the middle east is being accomplished. I don't think that is really a debatable point, even if we argue over what these recent successes are to be attributed to.

Please, explain to me how the war in Iraq caused the shift in Palestinian policy. I asked Smeg, but he doesn't seem to want to step up to the plate. Are the PA worried that the US might invade Israel in order to straighten the Palestinians out?

I don't think anyone here is arguing the point that the political landscape of the middle east is changing. That's pretty clear. The OP attributed this to the war in Iraq, though. That's what we're arguing.

As a final point, and I hate to have to bring this up once again, things going well is a matter of opinion and faith. If anyone still remembers what the Syrian invasion meant practically I suggest you read up on it. Say what you will about Syria, but at least they've been a stabilizing force in Lebanon. What happens when they move out? We have yet to see this play out, so let's not go over board with our optimism here.
Things are definitely looking brighter in Israel/the Palestine, but with a recent setback. The conflict is far from resolved though. Looking back on a few millenia of war over that piece of land, I'm not ready to declare "mission accomplished" just yet. The Israelis and the Palestinians still have some way to go.

[maccool]

Well, I don't know about peevish, but people who use latin phrases other than those incorporated into the English language are often viewed as attempting to belittle less educated recipients. French used to have the same rep, while Spanish and common Italian are unfairly viewed as servant-speak.

Illegitimus non carborundum, Smeggie

I used that term because that's what it's properly called. Same reason I would use the Latin phrase for describing a plant to a botanist. I didn't make the term, but I had to learn it.

For future fun at cocktail parties, carborundum isn't Latin. And you want to change the tense of bastards to the dative plural: Illegitimis. Unless you were specifically addressing me, which I suppose would be a subtle way of insulting me. Hope you don't feel belittled in any way, shape or form.

[maccool]

Say what you will about Syria, but at least they've been a stabilizing force in Lebanon.

23 October, 1983.

I disagree with your assertion. Standing an egg on one end does not make it stable.

[Freemason]

Please, explain to me how the war in Iraq caused the shift in Palestinian policy. I asked Smeg, but he doesn't seem to want to step up to the plate.

How kind of you to assume that I live to post here. Arrogance anybody?

Are the PA worried that the US might invade Israel in order to straighten the Palestinians out?

No. They were concerned that the US has the in-theater forces capable of putting a bomb through their dryer vent. After Arafat died (and the party ended), they had but one choice. Comply or face the possibility of not getting to live a bit longer. They made the right choice.

I don't think anyone here is arguing the point that the political landscape of the middle east is changing. That's pretty clear. The OP attributed this to the war in Iraq, though. That's what we're arguing.

That's correct. The changes are happening because the status quo had been disrupted. The status quo that stretches back decades. Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan, Bush, Clinton. All maintained the status quo over there. Then along comes Pres. Bush, causing a ruckus, turning over the money changer's tables in the temple, making dogs and cats live together, etc. Had we not been over there waging war, the status quo would have continued to be maintained and nothing would ever change.

As a final point, and I hate to have to bring this up once again, things going well is a matter of opinion and faith. If anyone still remembers what the Syrian invasion meant practically I suggest you read up on it. Say what you will about Syria, but at least they've been a stabilizing force in Lebanon. What happens when they move out? We have yet to see this play out, so let's not go over board with our optimism here.

A stablizing force? They're the ones that turned Beirut from the paradise it used to be into a hell hole. Stablizing my arse. It's Syria that has funded the terrorists operating against Israel out of Lebanon. Stabelizing my arse. Do you also say that Germany's invasion of France a "stablizing force"?

Things are definitely looking brighter in Israel/the Palestine, but with a recent setback. The conflict is far from resolved though. Looking back on a few millenia of war over that piece of land, I'm not ready to declare "mission accomplished" just yet. The Israelis and the Palestinians still have some way to go.

Yet had the staus quo not been disrupted, nothing would have changed. Now we're looking at a true chance of peace.

Mac, your use of dead languages doesn't impress me. Nor does your condecending attitude. All your degree means is you are more learned, not better learned.

[llad12]

Is everyone having fun with all these subtle (and not so subtle) flames?

[maccool]

Is everyone having fun with all these subtle (and not so subtle) flames?

Well it sure beats speculating that maybe, just maybe, the pro-Syrian government in Lebanon resigned because of the widespread and unprecedented protests in the last 2 weeks over the assassination of former PM Rafik al-Hariri. To me, that sounds more believable, given the timing than, "See?! Bush is making everything right. Suck on it liberals!"

Then again, every time something goes well, Bush did it despite those who hate us and want to destroy our freedoms.

[llad12]

Pardon my last comment Mac, I have no room to talk now as I just got pissed and flamed Smeg in another thread. :eek:

Carry on ...

[Drosselmeier]

No. They were concerned that the US has the in-theater forces capable of putting a bomb through their dryer vent. After Arafat died (and the party ended), they had but one choice. Comply or face the possibility of not getting to live a bit longer. They made the right choice.

The Israelis have all the military might they need. The Palestinians are not afraid of US bombs. Israeli bombs are another matter. The Israelis have the intelligence apparatus to find and bomb Palestinian leaders. The US does not.

That aside, how would the Israelis react if the US started bombing their territory and meddling in their affairs? I think the Israelis would be just as surprised as the Palestinians.

They are not afraid of you.

That's correct. The changes are happening because the status quo had been disrupted. Bush is the second coming. All changes have their root in him.

A number of other explanations for the recent changes have been pointed out already.

A stablizing force? They're the ones that turned Beirut from the paradise it used to be into a hell hole. Stablizing my arse. It's Syria that has funded the terrorists operating against Israel out of Lebanon. Stabelizing my arse. Do you also say that Germany's invasion of France a "stablizing force"?

Yes, the old nazi parallell. Well done Smeg. I feel like a fool now.

The Syrians did not start the Lebanese civil war. They didn't even enter the war until it had raged for about a year, IIRC. The reason for their occupation of Beirut was to impose order by keeping the millions of warring militias in check.

For information about ethnic conflicts and what somtimes prevents them, read up on Tito and the fall of communism in Yugoslavia. It's a pretty good parallell to what might happen in Lebanon if things go bad. Power vacuum and old grudges, you know.

[Draconis]

How kind of you to assume that I live to post here. Arrogance anybody?

No, it's more that every time you post something factually incorrect, or correct with your own 'special' (and completely wrong-headed) spin on it, and are called on it, you never post in the thread again. It's one of your more irritating habits as a poster.

[maccool]

You know, it'd be real funny if those cheese-eating surrender monkeys in the French government were with the U.S. in demanding that Syria comply with Security Council resolution 1559 and the Taif accord. If that were the case, it might show that the events transpiring in Lebanon aren't entirely due to the U.S. invasion of Iraq and that all this connecting the two is ********.

Edit - I love it, the filtered word starts with B, but it isn't the one you think it is...unless you're in the UK. Then it is.