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  1. #31
    IncGamers Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by haTe™
    And what about monsters thet are not efected by thorns..
    gloams vamps etc..
    They die

    lets say Ur facing pack of burning souls act5 hell..
    no other monsters around
    No other monsters... except for my freaking huge pile of Revives which snap them like twigs between my thighs.... oh wait... sorry, wrong message board

    is merc should start corpse or two for CE or
    revives themself will do some dmg and kill something actualy..
    Merc + Golem + Thorns works quite well for getting the juggernaut rolling.

    if merc uses insight dont count on much dmg from him
    I disagree. The merc + amp dishes out quite sufficient damage. I have a couple of characters on the verge of breaking through into hell, and its more damaging than anything I've found so far, the best merc weapons have been Tanr Gorerods and Hwanims polearms. Insight does more damage than either of those.

    Maybe I'll do 50 million pit runs to find the Ethereal Reapers toll... wait, no, on second thoughts, I think I'll skipp that bit thanks.

    maybe I miss it but U didnt mentiomed 20SM to boost revives dmg
    Its not an omission. I'd rather have 20 Revive first. Then *maybe* think about putting some points into SM. The Revive's do plenty of damage as it is.

    if revives in hell even maxed cant do eny dmg then skelies would be better
    choise coz with 10-15 of them oll monsters are easily hiting them and
    beign hiting back..(if have alot of +to skills)
    Revives do more damage than skellies. The more +skills you have the better the comparison is for the Revives.

    And what about bonus elemental damage? And resists/immunities? And crushing blow? and ... and ... and ...

    Revives 4 - Skellies 0

    well gloams etc will eventualy use their melee attack but thet can take a
    while to be killd by thorns coz they have well weak melee atack..
    I only need to kill one, and then the rest get a quick CE up the wazoo - game over, insert new gloam to continue.

    note:I talk about hell here.. revives ar far better in nm and normal.
    Revives and Skeletons both get much better in Hell. Skellies because they actually spend more time fighting, and less time running around.

    Revives because their damage goes up a lot and they get large juicy chunks of bonus elemental damage, and decent resists etc. (not that we care about their defense)

    so can gloams vamps kill themself in hell with melee attack with lvl 15 thorns and merc to srart CE chain..??
    Gloams are the only ones that cause me concern. Vamps will just die beneath the juggernaut.

    and how about those tempetest they are imune to physical and have
    no melee backup attack..

    anyway good build its nice to see something difrent
    I'll probably make one soon with bramble and edge.
    Cool, but there's some other builds from a way back which use Bramble + rich mans gear, they might be better for you. Edge is really just a cheap mans Bramble after all.




  2. #32
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    QL man.. is good to see thet this can kill in hell
    I like idea so much thet my LoM will have to wait.
    ill be using brambe/edge on act1 rogue and enigma/insight
    in syche (for style points) on me

    Quote Originally Posted by rickcarson
    Cool, but there's some other builds from a way back which use Bramble + rich mans gear, they might be better for you. Edge is really just a cheap mans Bramble after all.
    like I said several times before if its not standard necro and can kill
    in hell.. I'm gona make one.

    Maybe I'll do 50 million pit runs to find the Ethereal Reapers toll... wait, no, on second thoughts, I think I'll skipp that bit thanks.
    yes U should do 50 mil of pindle/baal runs. much more revarding especialy
    pindleskin.

    maybe U could add some kind of bramble vs enigma part..

    If clay golem slow monster down
    more they are slowed less thorns dmg
    and revives hardly die anyway so maybe to use gumby juz for bosses.




  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by haTe™
    maybe U could add some kind of bramble vs enigma part..
    Well, if I have Enigma on, I can teleport everyone.
    On the other hand, if I have Bramble on, I get a big boost to poison skills.
    So that might be another take on the poison/summon hybrids... except that I think Death's Web is pretty convincing there as the best poison weapon.

    Bramble/Poison builds also gain a lot from +skills, whereas CE doesn't. And other than Revives, CE (+Amp) is my main attack spell

    If clay golem slow monster down
    more they are slowed less thorns dmg
    and revives hardly die anyway so maybe to use gumby juz for bosses.
    Well, I started out using Gumby, used him for quite a while, then I found/shopped a +2 Summons +2 FG wand, and have that on weapon switch.

    Even though I dumped points into Gumby, I didn't really notice much of a problem. The only time you could really see the monster slowed was by the time it was the last one left... and if its the last one left, the merc just lays the smack down and you move on (or fire off another CE).

    Then once I started pumping points into Revives it wasn't an issue. Lets say there are 8 revives, the golem and the merc. And there are ten monsters (one monster each). Okay, so the golem slows his one down by lets say 50%, the other 9 all beat themselves to death twice as fast... its only a drop in efficiency of 5% (well.. actually, less than that, because the Revives and merc are doing damage too, and when they finish off their monsters, they all turn on the last one and finish it quickly, or a single CE should finish it).

    Where the golem shines normally is vs end of act bosses, because skellies and mages can't take much boss damage. But Revives are very robust against bosses, more so than my golems. So you might think well, why bother?

    The thing that it does in this build, which you don't see in other builds, is it performs a vital function for getting the ball rolling. When you lose all your Revives or are just starting, you don't worry, you just charge on in with merc + golem + amp, and start Reviving when the corpses start hitting the ground.




  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickcarson
    On the other hand, if I have Bramble on, I get a big boost to poison skills.
    So that might be another take on the poison/summon hybrids... except that I think Death's Web is pretty convincing there as the best poison weapon.
    I didnt mean to use bramble for boost to psd
    its thorns thet will stack with edge thorns and give huge dmg returned..
    too bad thet thorns from difrent sources doesent stack

    anyway great build once again
    my Televangelist is 73 now and doing much better then I could imagine..

    also I ask for Ur promision to post this guide on heaven forums..




  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by haTe™
    I didnt mean to use bramble for boost to psd
    its thorns thet will stack with edge thorns and give huge dmg returned..
    too bad thet thorns from difrent sources doesent stack

    anyway great build once again
    my Televangelist is 73 now and doing much better then I could imagine..

    also I ask for Ur promision to post this guide on heaven forums..
    Sure, or what might also work well is if you do up a bit of a story about how things went, and then post that, with a link back here to the guide?

    So then you could say if there were any points where you differed from the guide, or experimente, or had lots of trouble, etc.

    Glad you're having fun with it!




  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickcarson
    vs a Shadow based Assassin. The Assassin has a lot of good Shadow skills, a passable minion, the equivalent of Corpse Explosion in Death Sentry, and even have an equivalent of your Revives in Mind Blast. About the only thing this build has that the Assassin doesn't is Amplify Damage. Although the Shadow minions aren't as useful as Gumby for killing bosses, the dragon kicking skills are great for 'putting the boot in' versus a single target.

    the asssin does have Amplify Damage in a respect with Cloak of Shadows. It drops defence :clap:




  7. #37
    D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator Mad Mantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallonair
    the asssin does have Amplify Damage in a respect with Cloak of Shadows. It drops defence :clap:
    Welcome Newcomer to The Darkness. Grab a brew :drink: and feel free to raise some corpses.

    Dropping defense isn’t the same as increasing damage. It can increase damage if your AR is low simply because you’ll hit more.




  8. #38
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    I love this guide, but seeing as our friend has been gone for about 2 months now. Can someone give me insight on how the end skills are going to be around level 70 or so?




  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heaven Torn Asunder
    I love this guide, but seeing as our friend has been gone for about 2 months now. Can someone give me insight on how the end skills are going to be around level 70 or so?
    Thanks!

    I didn't really follow the guide, as partway through I developed an inordinate fondness for Revives.

    At level 70 this is how it stacked up:

    Skeleton Mastery 16
    Raise Skeleton and Raise Skeleton Mage 5 each
    Clay Golem and Golem Mastery 10 each
    Blood and Iron Golem 5 each
    Summon Resist 5
    Revive 22

    Teeth 3
    Corpse Explosion 19

    Amplify Damage 12
    Iron Maiden 3
    Life Tap 3

    ---

    With 1 skill point unspent. So you can see I have a mere +2 all and +2 summons (courtesy of the kind donation of Trangs armour and Shako by some random rich dude). For amulet I'm using something with lots of resists instead of skils. Life is about 850, Mana 360 (way way way too much, it sits on full most of the time) - I can chain cast Revive and/or CE.

    For a minion I use a 3700hp Fire Golem... just because I can (weapon switch). I went through most of the overground of Act 1 and it only died once. For comparison the Clay Golem on main is about 220 hp less, but on weapon switch it is 5219hp, over 1500 more hp. I don't need the clay against normal stuff, would consider swapping him in against bosses if the Fire died.

    Act 1 Hell is pretty easy, even with my crappy gear.

    Design decisions that everyone else will dislike:
    I love my increased Amp radius, no regrets on extra skill points spent there whatsoever.
    I love my CE increased radius (not nearly as controversial)
    I love my extra Revives, no regrets on extra skill points spent there whatsoever.

    Remaining skill points could be spent on any of:
    Skeleton mastery, CE, Revive. Each of them would marginally increase my effectiveness. note that due to heavy use of CE and Revive the character's offense scales proportionately to the monster's, so it doesn't worry me that I don't have any undeveloped 'killer' spells.

    I'll probably put a point (just one) into Fire Golem at some point.

    I'm also thinking about the Gloam problem, as they are really the only dangerous things left in the game. Dim Vision is probably the skill for that job. 13 more points gives me maximum Revives, Skeleton Mastery and Corpse Explosion.

    -----

    Prior to ladder/patch reset I've been working mainly on a number of Paladin builds which I haven't seen elsewhere, plus some of the 'cookie cutters' to use as reference points, so I haven't spent much time on Necromancers at all.

    My latest Necromancer character is based around the concept of the combo of the poison spells + confuse. (No summons)

    Poison Dagger is kind of neat, but crowd control is really important if you use it.
    Poison Explosion has high damage, but a very small radius, so you need to somehow clump the monsters together. (PE is also good for tight spaces like the Maggot Lair and Arcane Sanctuary)
    Poison Nova is kind of neat, but crowd control is very important for me when I use it (I haven't liked it much on my Poison/Summon hybrids because it often involves running out in front of my protective lineup, which I don't like doing).

    As for crowd control, Dim Vision is nice, Attract is powerful, but doesn't really provide good crowd control because its radius is too small to spam off screen.

    Confuse (or 'Summon Monster(s) as I like to call it) causes the monsters to clump so it combos well with Poison Explosion. It is spammable offscreen and it has a large radius. It is not quite as good at crowd control, and its monster summoning 'feature' is good if you are prepared for it and terrible if you aren't. Once the monster damage/hp ratio gets too bad then Confuse turns into a 'bad dim vision' except for the clumping and summoning features, so I plan on exploiting them as much as possible.

    So far it is working quite well. Not sure how it will deal with bosses. (I may stick Clay Golem on weapon switch just for bosses) Getting to level 18 was a bit of a slog but after that it has been plain sailing. The new improved minion xp rate is a big help at low levels.

    The secondary feature of this build is that I'm also working my way towards Lower Resist, so I'll have one of each curse (except Attract?), which makes it fairly flexible. Mostly I expect to switch between Confuse, Decrepify and Lower Resist as appropriate.

    The plan is to spend lots of points on PE till PN is available then max PN then max Confuse then finish off PE, which will probably happen at around about level 70ish since I've spread my points around a bit (a couple extra in PD for instance, and 1 in BW/BP to bump up my BA).




  10. #40
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    bumpity

    This is the build I was refering to in my other recent post. If you downplay the massive points spent on AMP & Revives, it'll fit a Bonemancer well.




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