Debate #1: Outsourcing

[Pierrot le Fou]

Stemming from this thread I want to have a discussion about the various issues in this election year without any mention of the candidates.

Let me make this crystal clear please do not mention ANY presidential candidate or party by name in this thread. Obviously I cannot enforce that rule, but hopefully people have had enough of the political bickering along party lines to make this thread free of that nonsense.

So here's the generic subject of this post, and what I want people to discuss: "Is outsourcing a problem?"

For those of you who don't know, outsourcing is when companies/corporations take jobs to foreign countries in order to take advantage of cheaper labour. This does cause the loss of American jobs, but the flipside is that with cheaper labour costs, theoretically in the long run the cost of the product (the cost to the American consumer) will decrease.

So is this a problem that should be solved by the American government? By the American people? Is it not a problem? If so why not? etc.

I won't chime in to try not to bias the thread from the getgo. Please, express your opinions without mentioning presidential candidates or parties. Thanks.

[MixedVariety]

Right off the bat, the problem I see with it is:

Outsourcing will cause the loss of some American jobs. If products become cheaper because of the cheaper labor, that won't help those Americans who remain unemployed because of the outsourcing.

[cougar]

I dont think the desired effect of outsourcing to the good of the consumer is all that great. Seeming, companies can outsource, and still charge the same price, because people will buy it, thus the company turning an even greater profit.

I think it might/can be a problem, seeming im out on the job market right now just looking for a part-time job. And it's been a tough go trying to find one.

[Damascus]

Is outsourcing a problem?

For the everyday person in the short term, yes. Long term? I'm not that smart, there are a lot of factors. :scratch:

For business? Absolutely, they wouldn't do it otherwise.

So is this a problem that should be solved by the American government?

Solved is the wrong word. It implies a problem. Unemployment is a problem but outsourcing isn't the cause, just one of many. Should the government try to have companies avoid it? If it puts jobs back in the US and keeps us employed, then yes. The people should, and will, buy whatever is cheaper. It's a global market thing. We just can't make everything cheaper and shouldn't expect ourselves to be self contained. If it's the only way to keep jobs in the US we should try to slow it. But for all we know it could help the country.

[Freet]

To put it bluntly;

Hell yes it's a problem. I was never so ticked off as when I found out that the NAFTA bill passed and became law. Since then pretty much all the work has gone north and south of the border. Well, I suppose it went east too but who's counting?

[Pierrot le Fou]

Well here's another addendum to that question. If it's good for the businesses (which I think we all agree it is since they do it for the profit motive), and those businesses are owned by Americans, isn't that good for some Americans? And the expanding of those companies, which have most of their sales/development/marketing in the US (service sector), should create SOME new jobs for Americans, shouldn't it?

Also, as Damascus said, the bad effects aren't solely the cause of outsourcing, so is outsourcing just a scapegoat?

And finally, can the outsourcing 'problem' be 'solved' through government intervention? Is there any way to prevent companies from outsourcing without causing a slew of other problems?

Will outsourcing eventually balance out so that jobs come to the US and go from the US equally?

[PreistlyDeacon]

Outsourcing wouldn't be a problem if it was done like this:

The factory would be built in <thirdworld country>, follow all of the same regulations as one built in the U.S., pays precisely the same wages as in America, and was only built to better the unemployment situation in the surrounding community.

Instead outsourcing is used to jack the profit margin for companies by cutting costs; costs meaning saftety measures to meet federal regulations, employee benefits, and wages.

Go greed!

As for this problem being fixed, I'd say that companies would need to follow a certain, federal protocol that governed outsourcing.

[_OrpheusPrime_]

Hum.. where to start?..

Ok, lets look at this globally shall we? (the $ figures i throw out in here will not be true to life)
If it costs a mexican worker 500$ a year to live in whatever apartment in mexico city. Now, that worker can easily get by on his 5$ a day job working at a factory and by all accounts he can be just as efficient as any other human being.

Now, an American worker, even in the rural of areas will be paying lets say, 5,000$ a year in various bills, he then must be paid more or else he will 1) suffer loss in efficiency due to taking on another job and being fatigued or 2) Much higher job-turnover due to a homeless worker.

Unless there is some 'leveling' of the international labor playing field (and frankly I just don't see that happening for a lot of reasons) there is no way to cost-effectivly keep manual labor jobs in the U.S. it just costs too much to live here.

Now, on the other-hand tech jobs going over seas makes no sence to me.. the workers (In India wich is the most popular location, iv heard of to outsource tech jobs) have to be trained by us and given english lessons and they still are inferior in their commuinication (wich is the primary objective in the service sector, correct?) skills.

I'll let people respond before I expound further and end up writing an essay..

[Pain Probe]

Did you know we give tax credits (of all things) to US-based multinational corporations that outsource jobs overseas? What's up with that?

I think it's wrong and I don't believe the suits that claim outsourcing US jobs is a "good" thing over the long haul. They claim that "better" jobs will grace us in the future. Um ok...

[Steve_Kow]

Check out the thread I made earlier Freet, kind of puts a damper in that "all the work" is leaving belief doesn't it?

The media and politicians tend to focus on the negative side of outsourcing, with big headlines announcing the loss of jobs to call centers in India or somesuch, very rarely do you hear about the jobs that are insourced into America. Toyota, a Japanese company, is now the U.S' 4th largest automaker: if you buy a "Japanese" car in North America today, the chances are good that it was made in America. Surprised?