Should incarcerated convicts get the right to vote?

[asdf]

Expecting a guy to come out and start paying taxes fair and square while not being allowed to vote is borderline Boston Tea Party stuff.

bah. let's say a guy assaults someone and gets 1 year. sucks to be them, maybe they come out and taxes are higher, or pension policies have changed. but they're not going to change that much- i've never heard of property/sales taxes making any drastic jumps over short periods of time.

for someone with 20 years, that's what they get for doing whatever they did that was so severe. maybe they shouldn't have done it in the first place? well, now that they're out they can vote for whatever party they want to bring taxes back down or whatnot.

you're not supposed to come out of prison with your entire life all fine and dandy just the way you left it.

i think the only things that prisoners may vote on would be changes in legislation that would affect them directly- like prison funding

[IDupedInMyPants]

Maybe because "the guy"'s a sociopath and cannot follow the laws of the society he lives in? "The guy" broke a fundamental law of humanity, not just the laws of a nation of state. Therefore, he shouldn't be a part of a decision that is determining the fate of others.

So breaking a fundamental law of humanity is grounds for denying the right to vote, but not grounds for execution? I'm just trying to see where and why you draw the line, because in my head I can't make "breaking a fundamental law of humanity" sync up with "deserving of being denied two or more rights, at least one of which has nothing to do with that fundamental law he broke."

bah. let's say a guy assaults someone and gets 1 year. sucks to be them, maybe they come out and taxes are higher, or pension policies have changed. but they're not going to change that much- i've never heard of property/sales taxes making any drastic jumps over short periods of time.

for someone with 20 years, that's what they get for doing whatever they did that was so severe. maybe they shouldn't have done it in the first place? well, now that they're out they can vote for whatever party they want to bring taxes back down or whatnot.

you're not supposed to come out of prison with your entire life all fine and dandy just the way you left it.

i think the only things that prisoners may vote on would be changes in legislation that would affect them directly- like prison funding

Obviously you can't expect to do 20 years isolated from society and come out not being Tom Hanks on Castaway, nobody's gonna argue against that. I think what we do to criminals as far as punishment is lock them in a small cage 23 hours a day, isn't that enough? I see no pressing need to further suppress their rights, they're locked in a freakin' cage. I think that gets the point across that they did something wrong. Denying the right to vote is just arbitrary unless it's a case of vote fraud, "that's what the dirty criminals get" just doesn't cut it as a stand-up reason.

[Anakha1]

[COLOR=YellowGreen]What if a vote came up about what to do with the incarcerated convicts. Would they get to vote on that? Ah, the irony.

We took away their freedom.
You wanna take away their voting rights.
We might as well take away their religion also. We should make a new religion for people in prison that they must practice while locked up. [/sarcasm if you couldnt tell][/COLOR]

Uh, prisoners already aren't allowed to vote as it is. I'm not taking away anything, it's the way it is now and has been for a long time.

We take away their freedom, and you're worried about the slippery slope involving voting? What can be worse than taking away their freedom? Once they've violated society's legal rules and gone through due process they have forgone the right to participate in it. That's why we lock them up. There's no connection between that and religion, etc, etc. since religion is a personal thing and has nothing to do with participation in society. Your argument holds no water so you can stop with the exagerated outrage.

They owe a debt to society. They don't get to participate in society until they've paid that debt. I don't see what's so wrong about that. We're too soft on convicts as it is.

[IDupedInMyPants]

Once they've violated society's legal rules and gone through due process they have forgone the right to participate in it.

If someone has no right to participate in society or due process then how do you propose we put them in jail? Or are you just saying you want to have your right to vote permanently denied next time you jaywalk?

[Anakha1]

If someone has no right to participate in society or due process then how do you propose we put them in jail? Or are you just saying you want to have your right to vote permanently denied next time you jaywalk?

I said once they've gone through due process and convicted they are punished by the removal of civil rights. They're entitled to due process. Jaywalking is not an imprisonable offense.

Sarge is right. Voting is a priviledge, not a right. If it were a right we'd be voting from birth. It's a priviledge enjoyed by responsible adults as part of their civic enjoyment. Those convicts have shown that they are not responsible nor willing to partake in civil responsibility. For that there rights are suspended while they pay their debt.

[Yaboosh]

But Jaywalking is a Jailable offense.

[MixedVariety]

I don't think someone who's abused society in such a way should have a right to have a say in it until they've paid their debt.

Then, I don't think prisons are tough enough on the prisoners as it is.

I'm with Anarchist101 all the way on this. Make what noise you will about rights, slippery slopes, blah blah, but committing crimes that put you behind bars already shows a serious lack of judgement; do you really believe that we are showing good judgement ourselves by letting screwoffs participate in choosing a country's political leaders?

[Yaboosh]

On that road, though, you can say that dumbasses can't vote either, since their judgement will be impaired. I have no problem keeping felons from voting, but dont justify it saying that they just dont have good enough judgement.

[Anakha1]

But Jaywalking is a Jailable offense.

Since when? It isn't up here.

[MixedVariety]

On that road, though, you can say that dumbasses can't vote either, since their judgement will be impaired. I have no problem keeping felons from voting, but dont justify it saying that they just dont have good enough judgement.

I see what you mean, though I stand by the general flavor of my post. Instead of poor judgement I should perhaps have said bad, or wrong, choices. The criminals made bad choices, likely knowing better, and were caught. The dumbasses aren't in jail, having committed no crime. It is the combination of the two things, the wrong choice resulting in a charged crime, that the criminals are being punished for; dumbasses just don't think very well but haven't proved their thinking to be socially unacceptable yet.
Anyway; I say no voting for jailed criminals. Why do we owe them that? What'd they do to deserve the continuation of the priviledge?