Summoners: How do you get your first kill?

[prion]

I know there are guides out there for pure summoners, the one I read didn't really cover this.

As i think about the next weird build I want to try, I am wondering what is a reliable way to get the first kill to build up your army? I like to use mercs but hate to rely on them for anything. Would a bow in conjunction with a golem do it? as long as all I need to do is kill a quill rat when solo to get my first skeleton this should work?

[10 Speed]

I use my merc with a little bit of curse and golem aid. Or, you can go to the bloody foothills, which has 3-4 corpses just sitting there, or you can go to pindle, where there are even more corpses just sitting there.

[Mad Mantis]

If you want to use the bow you need to get either a lot of AR or ITD.

If you are not yet in Act V you can use Attract and a Merc to get the first corpse. Why do you not like to rely on Mercs? I think they are one of the most important parts of a build.

[Dr3vil]

A3 fire merc + max dps fire golem (20 fg, 20 clay) + LR

As long as I don't keep running into a tightly packed mass of monsters, the first kill isn't much of a problem.

[Mad Mantis]

A3 fire merc + max dps fire golem (20 fg, 20 clay) + LR

A3 Merc for a Skelliemancer. Unusual, have you tried the Might Merc?

[Skips]

nah ya see he has the merc on switch, after hes got his first kill then he switches to the might merc. *nods sagely*

[prion]

If you want to use the bow you need to get either a lot of AR or ITD.

hmmm...yeh...that won't do it in hell then

If you are not yet in Act V you can use Attract and a Merc to get the first corpse. Why do you not like to rely on Mercs? I think they are one of the most important parts of a build.

I didn't want this to be a merc discussion but since you asked think there's lots of reasons not to *rely* a merc.

For one, mercs can be stupid sometimes--if you are expecting them to kill, they might be stuck on a rock or something, running in place. They'll also continue to hit things that hurt them, like LEB's and anything when they've been IM'ed.

If you go up against an act boss, most of the time the boss will kill your merc. Now your build is broken.

Minions aren't always reliable either but they can be resummoned.

Leveling a merc is tedious. It's worse than doing mf runs. When you're trying to let a merc get most of the kills is when their stupidity really shines.

Sometimes they take damage too fast and die while youre trying to kill things. If you stop to heal them, that's a distraction.

Mercs are great, my paladin has a might merc that does more damage than he does. I was lucky to find a nice rare ethereal pike that I'll consider upping once or twice if I can't find anything better. I've had very few problems with him so far. Sometimes, tho, mercs are just a pain to keep around.

This is just my personal preference and opinion, but as a whole I don't think it's good to *rely* on anything outside of your skills. Now equipment is important and obviously you need certain kinds of equipment, but I think a build that relies on 'x' unique item or runeword might be a lot of fun but I don't consider it a 'good' build. I feel the same way about mercs. Obviously they are helpful, but if you need a particular merc just to survive then I don't consider the build to be 'good.'

[GIR]

Just give something a few whacks with your uberleet Cracked Wand.

[Phyrexial]

If you party with people, getting that first corpse shouldn't take that long. Barring this and assuming you are playing solo, a merc is the best way to do it before you can simply get minions from Act 5. (Pindle)

A couple tips about Mercs:

1) You don't need to let them get the kills, they get experience from your kills too. Generally, you can kill much faster than your merc so its just more efficient and faster to go about your business killing things rather than prepping a monster for your merc to kill. My sorc leveled up her Act 2 HF merc while running Pindle actually. He rarely ever got a kill but he still leveled up every 5 or so runs.

2) Lifetap will save your merc if he can deal decent damage.

3) If you really need to get him out of a bad situation, use a tp to reassemple your minions to your position.

4) Leveling mercs doesn't take that long if you get them as soon as you can so they are roughly your level to begin with.

[jmprockstar]

hmmm...yeh...that won't do it in hell then


I didn't want this to be a merc discussion but since you asked think there's lots of reasons not to *rely* a merc.

For one, mercs can be stupid sometimes--if you are expecting them to kill, they might be stuck on a rock or something, running in place. They'll also continue to hit things that hurt them, like LEB's and anything when they've been IM'ed.

This doesn't happen enough to matter in regular games and it certainly shouldn't happen when you've just used a WP to Act 1 to get some easy corpses. Not a good reason to ignore using a merc.

If you go up against an act boss, most of the time the boss will kill your merc. Now your build is broken.

I cannot remember the last time this happened to me. You merely have to equip your mercenary as you would equip yourself, namely, well. Some resistances and a lot of life leech and, boom, you're done. Throw in some damage reduction, if you want. Not too touch, especially the Might Mercs, since they start in the 40s.

Minions aren't always reliable either but they can be resummoned.

Only golems, really, and they're support minions, since they cannot kill on their own.

Leveling a merc is tedious. It's worse than doing mf runs. When you're trying to let a merc get most of the kills is when their stupidity really shines.

Only if you rushed and did Baal runs before getting the merc, but that is your fault for badly planning your build, not the mercenary's. Get the merc as soon as you're in Act II Nightmare and, like I said, equip him well. You shouldn't have any problems.

Sometimes they take damage too fast and die while youre trying to kill things. If you stop to heal them, that's a distraction.

Again, if they're badly equipped, this is a problem. Also, they're worth a distraction if their aura is a major cause for your minions doing any damage, which they are. However, if you spend your time keeping him alive, it means that you've bought your merc late in the game, meaning, again, you're reaping what your bad plan has sown or a perpetrator of Mercenary neglect by sending them to battle for you with cracked voulges.

Mercs are great, my paladin has a might merc that does more damage than he does. I was lucky to find a nice rare ethereal pike that I'll consider upping once or twice if I can't find anything better. I've had very few problems with him so far. Sometimes, tho, mercs are just a pain to keep around.

A merc is even easier to keep alive with a summoner than with a pally because you have minions who protect him and benefit from his aura.

This is just my personal preference and opinion, but as a whole I don't think it's good to *rely* on anything outside of your skills. Now equipment is important and obviously you need certain kinds of equipment, but I think a build that relies on 'x' unique item or runeword might be a lot of fun but I don't consider it a 'good' build. I feel the same way about mercs. Obviously they are helpful, but if you need a particular merc just to survive then I don't consider the build to be 'good.'

This is a straw man; that is, no one has made this argument. So why raise this point? Besides, it isn't even relevant. A summoner could make it through Hell without a mercenary. It would just be slow and suck a whole lot. That doesn't make them a bad build. Mercenaries are a game feature, just like items, and should be used in ways that improve your overall effectiveness. It simply makes no sense to deny the quality of a build merely because they utilize a game feature you dislike, especially for the rather bad reasons you've listed.

It sounds to me your impressions of mercenaries were developed by unknowingly mistreating them. They're very useful if you use them correctly. I suggest you revisit them with your next summoner by hiring them as soon as you can and having great items for them to use as you advance.

The other ways of getting corpses--Pindle, Bloody, and wiping out Act 1 Cold Plains monsters--are great, too. But, sadly, this has turned into a merc discussion. Threads about first kills always do.