Smoke screen + preparation = OP?

[kremesh]

Hello everyone,

It is not officially known if we can boost max discipline to 60 or 75 (affix "Of Lucidity" can add up to 15 discipline according to this site http://www.diablowiki.com/Of_Lucidity_10)

We know from betatesting that smoke screen makes you invisible AND invincible (some guys tested that) and you can cast it while stunned or CC'ed.

So Smoke screen + Lingering fog makes you invisible and invincible for 3 seconds for 14 discipline.

When you can get max 60 discipline from items, you can chain smoke screen 4 times (12 seconds) and after that 5th time (because 12 discipline is regenerated while in smoke screen).

Then you can use Preparation and use 5 more smoke screens. Which is 30 seconds of constant invisibility and maybe immortality.


With 75 max discipline it is 36 seconds and you can extend that by using Preparation's runes or passives Perfectionist or Night Stalker.


Do I miss something?

[Zelas]

Yeah, I guess it will get nerfbatted one way or another.

Either immunity will go or a CD added, my bet is on immunity.

[etezo]

No, its simple - dispells on attack - if it doesnt do that yet then it will be fixed. Its quite obvious that attacking should reveal your position

[speedloader]

Its quite obvious that attacking should reveal your position

What I expected from the start and a little disapointed when playing the beta, hopefully ennemies will quiclky gain awareness.

[Karpalo]

Somehow i think that smoke screen will be too good for ressing fallen allies. Pop the screen and channel uninterrupted.

I guess the ability will have some short comings that are not obvious from the tooltip. Seems kinda ridiculous as it is right now.

[MartinLong]

This is the way I've been able to solo bosses. Love smoke screen, but soon after I get out, I usually get hit - and as such, die.

[Greystone]

Firstly this is a pve game and even when pvp gets brought it it's not going to be competitive, and even if blizz goes back on their word about that it'll be completely separate from pve.

Smoke screen is fantastic, but I find it to be expensive enough that I only use it by itself. I would probably say the same about shadow power because they are both the most expensive discipline skills.

Honestly ALL of the discipline skills are fantastic and become even more so with their runes.

Take vault for example. By itself it's great and isn't too costly. Rune it with tumble, use the passives vengeance+perfectionist with 45+ discipline and you are looking at being able to vault a bagillion times. This would be harder than smoke screen to use, but if you're good at positioning this would be alot of fun.

Look at shadow power. You can rune it to 30% life steal. That's alot. You can combo it with cheap caltrops and have heals and snares galore.

I am being completely honest when I say not one skill I have used on any class up to 15 has been bad if you can use it well and work a build around it.

[Infiltrator]

The problem is, most classes have tank like abilities. Monk has invincibility, wd has spirit walk, wiz has diamond skin. Other than smoke the dh has nothing to soak damage.

[Troxism]

Smoke Screen is basically the only good defensive skill the DH has. Vault, Caltrops, and Shadow Power are all pretty unreliable when you get to higher difficulties/acts, since there are a lot of charging enemies, and in Hell they 3-5 shot you (and I'm sure in Inferno they will 1-2 shot you). Even if you stacked Vit really hard, I'm not sure how you would reliably survive some boss packs using Caltops, Vault or Shadow Power. Shadow Power especially seems to really suck, even with the Gloom rune, since it's basically a ****ty version of Smoke Screen.

So while this is kind of OP (even without any +max Disc, this is letting me actually not die in Hell to the tougher boss packs), to be honest I don't think a hardcore DH is even possible without this. They probably should lower the max Disc you can get from items. However the root of the problem I feel is that the other defensive skills just suck for the DH. If they nerf this too hard, the class will be very hard to solo with.

[Karth]

The Demon Hunter has probably the most powerful active defensive skills in the game because the Demon Hunter has probably the worst passive defensive skills. I agree with Troxism; the DH would become very difficult to solo with, without Smoke Screen.

[Infiltrator]

Smoke Screen is basically the only good defensive skill the DH has. Vault, Caltrops, and Shadow Power are all pretty unreliable when you get to higher difficulties/acts, since there are a lot of charging enemies, and in Hell they 3-5 shot you (and I'm sure in Inferno they will 1-2 shot you). Even if you stacked Vit really hard, I'm not sure how you would reliably survive some boss packs using Caltops, Vault or Shadow Power. Shadow Power especially seems to really suck, even with the Gloom rune, since it's basically a ****ty version of Smoke Screen.

So while this is kind of OP (even without any +max Disc, this is letting me actually not die in Hell to the tougher boss packs), to be honest I don't think a hardcore DH is even possible without this. They probably should lower the max Disc you can get from items. However the root of the problem I feel is that the other defensive skills just suck for the DH. If they nerf this too hard, the class will be very hard to solo with.

Agreed. I can't imagine how I would fight some packs in hell without smoke screen. Vault, caltrops? You gotta be kidding me. They TP on you, move super fast, all cc is reduced on them.. no.. caltrops and vault will not save you. Even with smoke screen some named packs are extremely hard and require a lot of kiting (waller + invincible minions + teleport for example).

[MartinLong]

I can't even get through NM without smoke screen. With any unique mob, I'm one shotted.

Off topic: I hate the frequency of DH's out there. 80% of the games I join there are 2 others in the party. What does this mean? A lot of deaths and little progress. It would be nice if you could choose a class preference to a game you join. Every DH needs a tank :)

[FireIceTalon]

^^This. Maybe not one-shotted, but any rare or champion with 3 or more in a pack is a problem in most cases for DH's. Really hope they dont nerf Smoke Screen, DH is already the most fragile class to begin with. This skill, with the Breath Deep rune comebined with Preparation skill/Battle Scars rune has been a real life saver thus far for me. So no, its not an over powered skill. Not by any means. If anything, the skill should be made even more potent, not the other way around.

[anoiktos]

^^This. Maybe not one-shotted, but any rare or champion with 3 or more in a pack is a problem in most cases for DH's. Really hope they dont nerf Smoke Screen, DH is already the most fragile class to begin with. This skill, with the Breath Deep rune comebined with Preparation skill/Battle Scars rune has been a real life saver thus far for me. So no, its not an over powered skill. Not by any means. If anything, the skill should be made even more potent, not the other way around.
I'd like to reiterate this. Especially now that I'm wandering around in early inferno, and looking at elites in late hell (act III-IV), demon hunters would simply not function without prep/SS against elites. Enemies have too many gap closers/movement restriction abilities.

Where the Wizard has stuns and hard defenses (like force shield/diamondskin), the barb and monk have 30% base reduction and multiple defensive passives, and the witch doctor has pets (and yes, these can tank in inferno. Seen it myself), the Demon Hunter has prep/smokescreen.

The real issue, I feel, is how poor vault fares in comparison. Making it cause immunity during its path (or causing its path to ignore some terrain and/or walls, like Leap) would go a long way to fixing this.

[Elyxthaxzus]

I'd like to reiterate this. Especially now that I'm wandering around in early inferno, and looking at elites in late hell (act III-IV), demon hunters would simply not function without prep/SS against elites. Enemies have too many gap closers/movement restriction abilities.

Where the Wizard has stuns and hard defenses (like force shield/diamondskin), the barb and monk have 30% base reduction and multiple defensive passives, and the witch doctor has pets (and yes, these can tank in inferno. Seen it myself), the Demon Hunter has prep/smokescreen.

The real issue, I feel, is how poor vault fares in comparison. Making it cause immunity during its path (or causing its path to ignore some terrain and/or walls, like Leap) would go a long way to fixing this.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I love the feel and use of vault...it saddens me to think ill have to resort to SS (which probably means im taking vault off my bar to keep room for other necessary skills). if vault could clear obstacles it would be a huge boost to the skill...leap is what saves my barb's skin more often then not.

[Troxism]

If Vault cleared CC's off me like Smoke Screen (and maybe could go through walls like suggested before) and maybe cost less disp (probably not needed), I would use it. As it stands, as 'cheesy' as Prep+SS is, it still isn't a free win ticket in inferno, and every other defensive tool is 100% useless in most situations, or at least massively inferior (I did try out some other builds, but I went back to my original every time). I just cannot see how a DH can beat a Jailer + Waller boss in inferno without dying a million times without it. Or any kind of combination of 2-3 out of teleport, invulnerable minions, jailer, waller, fast. Mortar isn't even that bad anymore, now that I've gotten more practice at dodging 1 shots then any sane person should.

I do however feel they should tweak stacking disp to cast it 9 times in a row, since that is actually pretty cheesy, it's just really really hard to get the gear for it (I don't think anyone is even close). Something has to be done to the state of DH defensive skills ATM, because they are overall very broken. Total immunity lets you avoid too many mechanics easily, but the other half the time it's required just to have a chance at winning. And everything else is worthless for anything that is actually hard.

Off topic but I'm in Act 3 Inferno, and I think I'm slowly going insane at how stupid it is. Someone please help meeeeeeeeeeeeeee111

[Damouse]

Yeah, its way too early to shout "DEMONHUNTERBROKEN," but thats certainly how i feel about the class right now.

Ive tried so hard to make a viable build without ss+prep, but i cant get anywhere with it (act 2 inferno). With ss+prep, i can solo content.

I leveled to inferno with a group around me at all times, however. Once i got into inferno i simply did not have enough umph in a party to kill things; my party died around my while we all wailed on the mob. I solo inferno much more efficiently than i do in a group, and that kind of saddens me.

Im sure gear will help a ton, but i currently feel cookie-cuttered as hell.

[Matuse]

I'm guessing SmokePrep is how people are beating Hell+ Rakanoth? That bugger was trivially one-shotting me on his teleport attack on Nightmare...the only way I beat him to was to keep him permanently stunlocked with electric bola. I doubt that will be an option in Hell, so it's probably endless Smoke instead. How annoying.

[Karth]

I'm guessing SmokePrep is how people are beating Hell+ Rakanoth? That bugger was trivially one-shotting me on his teleport attack on Nightmare...the only way I beat him to was to keep him permanently stunlocked with electric bola. I doubt that will be an option in Hell, so it's probably endless Smoke instead. How annoying.

I was able to get my hp+dr/res high enough that he couldn't one-shot me with it in Hell. After that it wasn't too bad. I still used SS+Prep of course, but before that I kept running out of disc because he'd fake me out via using the same animation for his ranged attack and summoning attack. After I could tank one and use SS to cover my backside while I healed up however necessary.

[Sephyron]

The duration of SS has been nerfed in todays hotfix, it's now shorter then the Cd of SS even with Lingering Fog.

[Karpalo]

The duration of SS has been nerfed in todays hotfix, it's now shorter then the Cd of SS even with Lingering Fog.

So it seems. Kinda have to rethink the position. You can't literally do anything against elite packs and trying to make DH durable enough to not get one shotted is mission impossibru on inferno.

[MartinLong]

Eat a dick Blizzard. This will be interesting to see who can actually get through inferno with all these new hotfixes.

SS: 1 sec (down from 2)
Lfog: 1 sec ( down from 2)
The CD: 3 sec.

Horray ...

[Troxism]

Doesn't really worry me TBH. I'll have to replay acts 3 and 4 to see if I can still do it, but I never used Smoke Screen as a permanent invulnerability shield (some builds could do that in some situations) in the first place, I only used it as a quick escape when something was about to hit me. Now I will just feel less cheap when I use it. It's still required for some bosses however, nerfs or no.

[MartinLong]

Doesn't really worry me TBH. I'll have to replay acts 3 and 4 to see if I can still do it, but I never used Smoke Screen as a permanent invulnerability shield (some builds could do that in some situations) in the first place, I only used it as a quick escape when something was about to hit me. Now I will just feel less cheap when I use it. It's still required for some bosses however, nerfs or no.

I never used it for complete invunerbility either, but more often than not, I will use SS 3 times in a row when I'm facing a boss or a really tough champion pack that I try to run away from.

The main issue with these nerfs is that they are decrementing the people who didn't 'exploit' or 'take advantage' of the skill. With a 3 second cool down, 2 seconds of invisibility is not enough to get away from a mob.