Hey guys,

I'm very new to the beta, got in after patch 13, so I'm not sure whether this is known already or not.
If its old just ignore ;)


When I was crafting a bunch of items it felt like the additional random properties were not random at all, but highly
scewd and predictable.

So I ran a little test and crafted 50 "Apprentice Coif" to see what properties i would get.

All the "Apprentice Coif" come with magic find, so all the names of the crafted items begin with "Scouting Coif of", because that apperantly is the name prefix for magic find.
So far so good...

The items i got were:
17 "... of Thorns" (dmg to melee attackers),
17 "... of the Sentry" (intelligence),
9 "... of the Hawk" (dexterity),
4 "... of the Bear" (vitality) and
3 "... of the Lion" (strength).
(I know that this sample size is pretty small and if interrest exists I will do a larger test.)

I made the carfting on a wizard and this could indicate that D3 favours some affixes over the others in crafting.
Of course as a wizard you would want intelligence over say strength. But dmg to melee attackers over vitality?

I wouldn't like it if Blizzard chose to decide for us which affixes we need which we don't.

In addition to that it looks like there are two general groups of affixes: The ones that give a name prefix
and the other ones that give a name suffix.

Some examples:

prefix:
vampiric: % of dmg to life
foreboding: AP per crit
gathering: pickup range
scouting: % magic find
adventuring: xp per kill
mending: more hp per health globe
keen: % attack speed
lucky: gold from monsters
resonant: hp per spirit spent

suffix:
hawk: dexterity
thorns: dmg to melee attackers
slaughter: life per kill
reptilian: life reg
wounding: dmg
lion: strength
bear: vitality
sentry: intelligence
angels: holy dmg

I noticed that if a magic item has two affixes then they will never be from the same group.
That is why all the coifs' affixes where of the suffix group, cause magic find is a prefix.
And that also means that you cannot craft one with say + % attack speed.

How is anyone supposed to know that, when it says RANDOM property?
For the first 10 crafts when I wanted attack speed I thought I was just unlucky.

I don't know about you but if I read random, I expect any of the affixes I have seen so far and grouping
the affixes up like this just for better item names seems ridiculous.

First of all, awesome first post, welcome to the forums.

I agree that we would need a larger sample size to see if the way the game chooses the affixes from a given pool is truly random and not character dependent for example. A few hundred crafts would help a lot to determine this. Other beta testers could help you with this. I would definitely be interested in seeing more data.

I'm somewhat torn about the way the tooltips of craftable items are represented. I like the fact, that you'll need a more intimate knowledge of the affix pool and the way items are generated if you want a specific stat combination, but I can certainly see how it could be confusing to new players. It's even worse for crafted Rare items, where you can't see if a fixed stat is a prefix or a suffix. I don't know how this system could be made more transparent though.

Do keep in mind that A) this is beta B) this is on Normal difficulty so most 'fixes are out.
I bet on Nightmare in the full game, you'll get way more options and in Hell, Inferno even MOAR!

The game could even get you to go back to normal to craft that high intelligence item you wanted/needed so badly on that überitem, not sure how it'll unfold actually :)

I crafted 50 Apprentice Hide Gloves and got this:

Health Gloves give +X Life 17.14% 9-27 (9,15,24,24,25,27) - didn't record
+X Health Regeneration per Second 14.29% 1-4 (1,3,3,4,4) - didn't record
Pickup Health Gloves +X yards away 8.57% 2-2 (2,2,2) - Gathering
+X Experience per kill 14.29% 1-6 (1,3,4,5,6) - didn't record
+% Attack Speed 8.57% 3-5% (3,4,5) - Keen
+ Gold Find % 11.43% 5-17% (5,10,16,17) - Lucky
+ Magic Find % 25.71% 5-10% (5,6,8,8,8,9,9,10,10) - Scouting

These were all "of the Bear" (+Vitality) - the Vit 1-5 affix applied as a suffix. I wish there was a way to figure out what the potential mods were for a "random" property. Ay ideas?

Kruemelgarten what you pointed out is really helpful. Restated: consider I was crafting gloves with +1 random property and had 0% chance of getting +Intellect but you were crafting a helm with +1 random property and had a substantial chance of getting +intellect. I didn't realize that the direct stat mods would "bump into each other" the way they did. So crafting something with a set prefix is better if you want a specific suffix. In this case the suffixes included the direct stats and the prefixes included the random mods.

Meldora, I think worrying aboud prefix, suffix etc is only helpful when we talk about magic items with exactly two affixes.
But perhaps further looking into this could reveal IF Blizzard is using some sort of algorithm to determine affixes that is not completely random.

To the fact that this is only beta and normal difficulty:
To achive the kind of behaviour these results could hint at there needs to be a more complex algorithm at work, that does more than just grab a random affix from the pool of all affixes.
Crafting could potentially be one of the major money sinks in the game and perhaps even a source of viable endgame items.
Of course there will be many more affixes in inferno mode but that won't change the problem of not beeing able to roll them at an equal probability.

But I really don't want to get ahead of myself here...
That's why I am farming right now to do a more complete test with a bigger sample size and crafting on different character classes.
If anybody wants to pitch in or has suggestions, my BattleTag is Krm3lg4r73n#2466.


Update:

I crafted 50 additional Apprentice Coif on the the wizard and 100 Coif on the monk.
The results were:

suffix wizard monk wizard+monk
------------------------------
thorns 31 23 54
sentry 32 33 65
hawk 14 18 32
bear 13 14 27
lion 10 12 22

I think there is no reason to speculate that the class is considered when crafting.
It is sad though that the pool of all possible random affixes is just 5 affixes big.
If it is that small they should rather give us a list of the possible affixes and not just
say random, when it really isn't, at least not from the whole affix pool.

I crafted 50 Apprentice Hide Gloves and got this:

Health Gloves give +X Life 17.14% 9-27 (9,15,24,24,25,27) - didn't record
+X Health Regeneration per Second 14.29% 1-4 (1,3,3,4,4) - didn't record
Pickup Health Gloves +X yards away 8.57% 2-2 (2,2,2) - Gathering
+X Experience per kill 14.29% 1-6 (1,3,4,5,6) - didn't record
+% Attack Speed 8.57% 3-5% (3,4,5) - Keen
+ Gold Find % 11.43% 5-17% (5,10,16,17) - Lucky
+ Magic Find % 25.71% 5-10% (5,6,8,8,8,9,9,10,10) - Scouting

These were all "of the Bear" (+Vitality) - the Vit 1-5 affix applied as a suffix. I wish there was a way to figure out what the potential mods were for a "random" property. Ay ideas?

Hello everyone, I am new on the forum, but not on Incgamer. I really like the work and analysis about Diablo 3 that everyone do here.

I play beta since almsot one week and I have begun to optimize the stuff of my monk. As meldora I try to craft lot of hide glove and I was never able to craft some gloves with Dex, or any of the primary attribute.

My question is simple, shall we consider that all type of gear had predefine afixe on it, and as for example, glove won't have dexterity on it? Because during my research on this topic, I found this link :
removed competing site, use diablonut
And apparently, they suggest that hide glove could have dexterity on it, but for a certainty I did not get all, I am french :)

Thank you !

P.S : hoping I did not make bleed yours eyes too much, me and my english ;)

Heya there, I crafted 48 Adept Talons to figure out a bit what affixes can we expect from monk fist weapons. These items were crafted with level 13 Monk and item's requirement level was 14. Item itself offered 27-35 Dexterity and +1 Random Property.

These are the results:

Empty Socket (1): 15x
Monster Kills Grant Experience: 8x (2, 8, 8, 10, 8, 8, 6, 4)
Damage Dealt is Converted To Health: 7x (1.5%, 1.1%, 1.0%, 1.4%, 1.1%, 1.3%, 1.1%)
Increased Attack Speed: 2x (2%, 7%)
Gain Life Per Spirit Spent: 6x (0.2, 0.3, 0.5, 0.2, 0.5, 0.6)
Increases Spirit Regeneration by X per Second: 5x (0.52, 0.62, 0.52, 0.55, 0.57)
Chance to Slow On Hit: 3x (1.1%, 1.2%, 1.0%)
Chance to Chill On Hit: 2x (1.1%, 1.1%)

As I gather more gold and Subtle Essences I'm going to craft around 50 of those level 26 Daibos and compare the results.

My question is simple, shall we consider that all type of gear had predefine afixe on it, and as for example, glove won't have dexterity on it?

Since the Hide Gloves always comes with the bonus Vitality "of the Bear" suffix, it can't spawn with Dexterity, because on gloves Dexterity only comes as a suffix and magic items can only spawn with one prefix and suffix.

How does it work with magic items that have +3 Random magic properties then? If a magic item can have only 1 prefix and 1 suffix?

Good question. I think that magic items with more than 3 magic properties are generated by using the secondary affixes after an prefix and a suffix was chosen. That would explain why these secondary affixes don't have names.

For example, look at the Dexterity affixes: http://diablonut.incgamers.com/affix/dexterity
The secondary affixes can spawn on rings, torso armors and off-hand items, so these types of items could spawn with additional Dexterity, even after their prefix and suffix were chosen.

However, this is total conjecture on my part, I don't have any proof for this. Later I'll try to craft a lot of these items and write down their stats and try to see if my theory holds.

Alright, I was very curious about this, so I tested some crafting ingame to look what prefixes and suffixes would an item pick, here are the results:

Base item: Used both craftable under level 13 pants, both come with X-X Vitality and +2 Random magic properties.

1. Lucky chain leggings of the bear:
+20 Vitality <-- suffix
18% Extra gold <-- prefix
Health globes grant +11 life


2. Mending hide breeches of the bear
+15 Vitality <-- suffix
Monster kills grant +3 Experience
Health globes grant +19 life <-- prefix


3. Gathering hide breeches of the lion:
+3 Strength <-- suffix
+17 Vitality
Health and gold pickup increased by 2 yards <-- prefix


4. Scouting hide breeches of the bear:
+14 Vitality <-- suffix
Regenerates 1 life per second
3% Better chance of finding magic items <-- prefix


5. Gathering hide breeches of the bear:
+17 Vitality <-- suffix
8% Better chance of finding magic items
Health and gold pickup increased by 2 yards <-- prefix

Here are the suffixes that these items have used and how they appear on normal(magic) pants:

Vitality: Primary and secondary
Extra gold: Secondary (Primary is only for the amulet!)
Health globe life: Primary
Experience: Primary
Strength: Secondary (Primary strength cant spawn on pants)
Gold pickup: Primary
Life regen: Primary and secondary
Magic find: Secondary




1. 2x Primary (Vitality, Health globe +life), 1x Secondary (Extra gold) (Can be 1x primary, 2x secondary too!)
2. 2x Primary (Experience, Health globe +life), 1x Secondary (Vitality)
3. 2x Primary (Vitality, Gold pickup), 1x Secondary (Strength) (Can be 1x primary, 2x secondary too!)
4. 2x Primary (Vitality, Life regeneration), 1x Secondary (Magic find) (Can be 1x primary, 2x secondary OR 3x secondary!)
5. 2x Primary (Vitality, Gold pickup) 1x Secondary (Magic find) (Can be 1x primary, 2x secondary too!)



What we can conclude from this little bit of testing:

1. ITEM DOES NOT NEED A PRIMARY AFFIX! It was a shocker to me too, you can see it on point 2 that this is true. Item randomly selects afterwards which ones of the affixes goes to prefix and suffix (the name can have one primary affix and one secondary affix OR two primary affixes OR two secondary affixes, its random as far as I know.)
2. I got curious again and wondered if it's really true that item doesn't need primary affixes, so I crafted Apprentice Coifs which have a secondary affix preset: 8-10% Magic find. First coif I crafted had 9% Magic find and 7 thorns damage. Both of those are secondary affixes on Helms.
3. Some items do not need primary affixes at all (as shown above), but some might need them, I dont know. I hope some people help testing this as well, as I ran out of crafting mats for now :scratchchin:.
4. It could be that if the preset item affix is primary, then it would need 2x primary or something and if it's secondary then it has no "must" for primary affix, I dunno. Needs more testing for sure.

here are the helms that I crafted later:

1. Scouting coif of thorns:
9% Magic find (secondary)
+7 Thorns damage (secondary)

2. Scouting coif of the bear:
+3 Vitality (secondary)
8% Magic find (secondary)

3. Scouting coif of the sentry:
+6 Intelligence (primary OR secondary)
10% Magic find (secondary)

4. Scouting coif of the hawk:
+10 Dexterity (secondary)
8% Magic find (secondary)

It seems that diablonuts info is incorrect on the part that secondary affixes can't name things (or their item restrictions are wrong, don't know)

Will fix grammar issues/other stuff in the morning, it's so late already! :crazyeyes:

Well, one thing's for sure: secondary affixes do change the name of an item, if the item spawns without a primary affix.

Maybe the cause for crafted items spawning without primary affixes is a bug in the item generator, because I can't think of a good reason why the devs would choose to do this. If this is indeed a bug, then it's most likely cause is that the Apprentice Coif comes with a preset secondary affix. This may cause the item generator to think, that primary affixes were already chosen and it ignores them, assuming for the moment that generally primary affixes do have to be chosen first.

This definitely needs much more testing. When I finish my playthroughs with all classes I'll help you.

Yes indeed, i'll gather up some crafting mats today and try to get a Scouting coif of X that has Magic find as secondary and has one affix that can spawn only primary there. Otherwise we can assume there is actually a bug that the item generator thinks primary affixes are used already and chooses only from secondary as you said.

Well, there's another possible cause: there's no valid primary affixes for the given item level, although I don't know how we could check if this is true or not.

That could be the case. I would test more but at least some people here in finland are having the same issue that I have had since morning: error 3018 :P

Since the Hide Gloves always comes with the bonus Vitality "of the Bear" suffix, it can't spawn with Dexterity, because on gloves Dexterity only comes as a suffix and magic items can only spawn with one prefix and suffix.

Hey, ok now I understand!

Thanks a lot :)