View Full Version : Current state of beta?
Hi there.
I've having a hard time finding serious beta press coverage on the interwebz, all I can get is youtube channel owners reading patch notes , kinda depressing.
So what's the current state of the beta ,bug wise, especially the RMAH, which is supposed to hold back the game from getting released?
Any beta testers nice enough to make a brief report?
Right now they are still tweaking skills and fixing minor bugs. The RMAH still needs work but is currently up and running with blizzard bucks. It seems the rune system is not finished and their final mechanics for how it will work have not been released. The beta itself feels pretty polished, but being that it is such a small piece, there is no way to tell how far along the rest of the game is currently. We do know that in house version of the game can be played through from start to finish and that they were working on polish right now. The last few patches have included some improved voice overs and skill tweaks. To me, it feels that the only real thing holding back this game currently is the updated rune system and RMAH (and maybe Korea).
The reason you don't hear to much is mostly due to the fact that not much has happened. These small patches are much to talk about and the mechanics of the game haven't really changed. Press really fell off once the release date was pushed back. No reason to hype or get excited about something till you actually have an idea of when to expect it to come out. Personally I feel that if they rest of the game is even simi close to the polish of the beta, then this game is ready to go. Since I have no insight on what they are working on or what the rest of the game is like, I can't even begin to speculate on when we might see the release.
The state of the game is not the factor that is holding back the release. The game is playable from start to finish, all content added. There are bugs that are being fixed because they can be - that is to say - while they wait for the actual problems to clear up.
You'll hear a release date when the Korea issue subsides, battle.net is completed as a platform, and the RMAH is 100% functional globally. The game itself and the state it is in is not the reason why it has not yet been released.
The beta is extremely polished, there are still a few bugs here and there that I see. The most recurring one is a large pillar of red that pops up in crevasses. But as far as the mechanics and gameplay - I've seen and played full-release games that see no patches ever have more bugs and play worse.
Expect a release date announcement in the next 2-4 weeks. That's my estimate, at least.
Thanks for your input.
I heard a lot of complains from beta testers regarding RMAH. Items are not transferred into stash when bought, some items disappear when put on sale, etc...
Is it still the same with patch 9?
I have yet to test out the AH, but I know those were mainly bugs from when they first released it for testing. If I get some time I'll post my thoughts.
Not alot has changed in the last couple of months. If you are gaga for some good beta coverage, I would check out Force's Youtube channel for his walkthroughs with each class. He does full walkthroughs, skill showcases, both sexes, lore walkthroughs, etc. Check him out at http://www.youtube.com/user/ForceSC2strategy.
If you watch those vids, you are pretty much caught up. Not much is different. Still the same beta content. You can level your Blacksmith up to level 4 and a bit, however the items you can craft at that level are too high to use.
The RMAH is up and running. Still lacking a lot of features, such as sorting, and searching based on stat types. But you can buy and sell. The cap is 499.5 bucks right now I think. Obviously the market is inflated and ridiculous due to a few factors. There is little supply of good items, and everyone wants them. Also, it's like someone giving you monopoly money to buy things with. It doesn't represent how the market will be on release in any way, shape, or form.
There have been some small class changes here and there. Nothing major. More or less just moving skills to different level requirements.
But, if you are really interested in content I would look at Force's channel, as I mentioned before.
Cheers!
Thanks for your input.
I heard a lot of complains from beta testers regarding RMAH. Items are not transferred into stash when bought, some items disappear when put on sale, etc...
Is it still the same with patch 9?
No, items are not transferred directly to stash when bought. You must go into the completed auctions list and choose the item and send it to the stash. Not really much of a problem. I have never had an item disappear, and I have sold many, many items.
RMAH still needs better sorting and searching. It works right now, but can be a pain in the butt to find what you want. As far as the release, it was too late to get it in before Christmas so it had to be pushed back. No one really launches a game in January so it would have to be February at the earliest. The Korea issue wouldn't change it not being released before now. The rune system was completely broken and still is. Also the RMAH was causing all kinds of problems not too long ago as well. Speaking about the entirety of a game when playing a tiny demo is impossible. You cant comment on the doneness of a game until you complete a full play through of it and include endgame. Especially when the portion you play lacks MAJOR systems.
Thanks HMF, I've followed Force's channel since the beginning of beta, it indeed covers all the content available, but there are no updates on the real issues like stability, RMAH bug fixing, etc...
Anyway from what I've heard in the posts above, we're getting close to release :)
I wouldn't be surprised if the release date matches the beginning of MoP beta, considering the Annual Pass strategy they've chosen.
FluffyTheFluffer
21-12-2011, 23:15
The international legal issues are the obvious hitch. Governments just don't like anything that smells like money laundering, and they like the idea of income earned in their borders that leaves without being taxed almost as much. Imagine if a major european nation raised a stink on the subject weeks after release. It wouldn't be a brand enhancer.
Bashiok: While you bring up a number of points of speculation, I just want to cut right to it and state that the reason we don’t have a release date yet is because the game isn’t yet where we want it to be in terms of our quality standards. We aren’t holding it back on account of any one piece of the game, or for any other outside factors. While it is indeed playable from beginning to end, we’re still actively working on many individual game elements and the ways that they interact with one another, with a great deal of iterative tweaking, balancing, polishing, adjusting, redesigning, and retesting going on. Why do people keeps saying that the content and mechanics are all done and/or it is just a matter of RMAH legal issues or the Korean ratings board that is keeping it from being released when Blizzard has said the exact opposite?
This is seriously getting old.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3710773312?page=19#362
FluffyTheFluffer
22-12-2011, 02:25
Maybe because three and a half years later, people know to take these things with a few grains of salt.
So you know something we (and they) don't or posses evidence that they are lying to us?
So you know something we (and they) don't or posses evidence that they are lying to us?
It's a conspiracy!!! Everyone loves a good conspiracy, right?
So you know something we (and they) don't or posses evidence that they are lying to us?
Ok I'm going to say it.
I'm far from one of the Bli$$ard conspiracy types, I'll just preface this post with that.
I read those Bashiok posts and it's the exact answer I expected them to give and the exact answer they have given before. It is not the full story, and technically it is purely a matter of perspective on whether you call it a crock of crap, or the "truth".
To understand the situation better, you need to know a bit more about the processes involved at this ending stage of development. Diablo 3, content-wise is for all intents and purposes, done. Let me explain what that actually means though, because this is where all the anti-bashiok / pro-bashiok people get confused and clash. It means that the content is in a stage where, at a moments notice, it can be completely locked up feature-wise and pruned of all out-standing development aspects and prepared for imminent release and be "ready enough" to do so. One such example of this type of pruning process would be that if the notice was given, the Rune Attunement system would be either "definitely staying" or "definitely going".
This DOES NOT mean that the game can be shipped immediately, exactly as it is. It still needs to be finalized, mechanics need to be polished, everything needs to be made crisp and ready for release. This process happens over several weeks.
What it does mean, is that the game will have all its loose ends tied and systems all finalized. This is followed by a massive crunch, where devs from other teams pitch in and polish the Sh** out of the game. It also usually means that they are ready to give out a public release date because they now have an accurate measurement of finality.
THE GAME IS NOT IN THIS PHASE. It would have been if it didn't get "delayed". Instead, the game was delayed, and as a result, the devs and designers have some extra time to add more stuff and tie up other loose ends that would've otherwise happened after release in content patches.
The game was not delayed because of content issues. The game was delayed because Battle.net and RMAH infrastructure (they are the same thing really) are not ready and are still in development.
This is where Bashiok's comments can be interpreted both ways. Because technically, the game's content is not "ready", and is still in pre-finalized state. And will remain so until all other parts of the game (aka Battle.net, RMAH, localization/classification) are ready. So Bashiok can accurately report that the game simply "isn't ready", and he wouldn't be lying. But the "real" delay is what I said above.
Technically, game content may never be ready, because there is always improvements to add and "Ready" is a perspective, not a state. That is why it just needs to get that point where it is good enough to ship and someone makes a decision that the game content can be finalized. I'm pretty sure they are passed that point. All development in game content now is simply making use of bonus time.
So lemme get this straight Azzure, Blizzard PR states that they do not have a release date only because the game is still being developed and they are not currently satisfied with where it is now --and not because of any other obstacles or goals-- and we are to interpret that as meaning that the game has been effectively finished to their satisfaction and that other obstacles and goals must surely be the culprit behind the delay, Blizzard is just being coy/playing with words? I don't get how that logic works.
Where is the evidence that the current work on content and mechanics is all just icing and not making cake? Because the still being worked on legendary and set items; lack of clear details on unattuned and high level runes; new, altered, or rearranged skills, runes, and passives; and new features like the Nephalem Altar, Arcane Enchanted beam thingy, etc. all say otherwise.
FluffyTheFluffer
23-12-2011, 00:09
Aside from concern over the RMAH - which is very real, despite the obvious fact that international big cap corporations usually aren't anxious to discuss potential liabilities associated with future products - there's never a good reason to release a game which is a one-time 300 mil USD tops that can significantly cannibalize a title that makes that every 10 weeks, rain or shine.
Where is the evidence that the current work on content and mechanics is all just icing and not making cake? Because the still being worked on legendary and set items; lack of clear details on unattuned and high level runes; new, altered, or rearranged skills, runes, and passives; and new features like the Nephalem Altar, Arcane Enchanted beam thingy, etc. all say otherwise.
Because they are quoted that they have given the Korean rating board a full copy of the game with all content added. If all the reasons that have been mentioned prior do not convince you, this, at least, is empirical evidence. The Korean board asked for more material to properly rate the game. Blizzard responded by giving them a full copy of the game.
How would that be possible if the cake wasn't baked yet?
Anyways, all of those tweaks are easy patches, and would have been "crunch-time" material. Since crunch-time was averted in 2011, it follows that they are resting on their laurels while the real issues are resolved. In the meantime, they are taking their time with polish here and there to make that 3-hour entry (aka the beta content) is as compelling as possible. The "icing" is not content. They are small tweaks that can be addressed in a patch, or otherwise eliminated in the final stages of polish before going gold.
Bashiok says what he does because he can, and he won't be wrong. The game isn't at 100% polish level. But 100% polish does not = shippable product. They want to up the quality because other issues have afforded them that time.
Think also: Blizzard planned to have a very short beta, but had to change their plans into a long beta timeframe. Why? Because the beta is not ready? No, the beta is playable, stable, here and there a few tweaks that can be done "one the fly" via future patches after releaseor even as a first-day patch. The biggest recent change was adding a new skill for monk. This cant be done after release, because people then picked their skills and Blizzard cant work on them anymore except the skills numbers (damage, duration, cooldown, ...). But the beta build we (= everyone except me) play is weeks old. Internally Blizzard is much further down on the development road.
Blizzard decided to go for a long beta because other parts of the game are not finished enough to release the game.
- RMAH
- battlenet infrastructure
- some design choices on runes
The RMAH is with the rune system Blizzards powerhorse feature (like it or not, but it doesnt change this fact). The rune system is more or less finished, a few changes here and there, done. The RMAH is not and they cant afford to ship the game with a not-near-perfect version of that "feature".
Since crunch-time was averted in 2011, it follows that they are resting on their laurels while the real issues are resolved. In the meantime, they are taking their time with polish here and there to make that 3-hour entry (aka the beta content) is as compelling as possible. The "icing" is not content.So what you are saying is that "still being worked on legendary and set items; lack of clear details on unattuned and high level runes; new, altered, or rearranged skills, runes, and passives; and new features like the Nephalem Altar, Arcane Enchanted beam thingy, etc" are not to be considered content that needs development or show evidence that the game recently needed development, that Blizzard is wrong when they say they are still developing the game and that that is the only reason for the delay, and that factors other than game development that they have already denied effecting the release date are effecting the release date?
Resting on their laurels? Seriously?
I need an aspirin.
So what you are saying is that "still being worked on legendary and set items; lack of clear details on unattuned and high level runes; new, altered, or rearranged skills, runes, and passives; and new features like the Nephalem Altar, Arcane Enchanted beam thingy, etc" are not to be considered content that needs development or show evidence that the game recently needed development, that Blizzard is wrong when they say they are still developing the game and that that is the only reason for the delay, and that factors other than game development that they have already denied effecting the release date are effecting the release date?
Resting on their laurels? Seriously?
I need an aspirin.
I think you're misunderstanding what is being expressed by both my post and the post you are quoting.
Blizzard were in crunch mode for Diablo 3 since about July-august this year. They were working literally around the clock during this time, some even slept at Blizzard HQ. They fully intended to have the game shipped before the end of 2011. This ended a few months ago, just before the delay decision was made. Crunch time was canceled and they all took a breather. Some took time off.
Do you honestly think they woke up one day and thought, "hmm, let's cancel crunchtime and delay the game so we can add moar content to it"? That's ridiculous. It was what always delays Blizzard games - Battle.net / network infrastructure.
It's not a coincidence the Beta servers couldn't handle more than 60 people online for the first month of Beta. It's not a coincidence that every single patch since the beta began brought battle.net down for hours, sometimes days. It's not a coincidence that the game content was solid as a rock while battle.net and the RMAH were not even close to fully implemented.
Legendary and set item stats are literally one of the last things to get done, and they are also the quickest and easiest to do. This is exactly the type of thing that gets worked on during crunch time. The attunement Rune system was fully implemented as of months ago, and the rest is just iteration that again, is the type of thing that gets finalized in crunch time.
Nephalem Altar, Arcane Enchanted beam thingy are peanuts. These things can be fixed / changed / redesigned in less than a day. Bashiok never denied that the delay was primarily due to battle.net. Read what I wrote above regarding this topic.
Don't get me wrong - they are still working on game mechanics, items etc as we speak. But they are only doing it because they have time to do it now, rather than defer it to a patch or crunch time.
Mage Slayer
23-12-2011, 13:49
^ Further on runestones, Jay Wilson has said that both the original and unattuned systems were good enough to ship, they just fiddled with them (and continue to do so) because that team has nothing better to do while they wait on other factors for game release and they might as well try to perfect the system before release if they can rather than waiting for an expansion or major patch. That does not say to me that the essential content of the game remains unfinished, quite the opposite - one of the pillars of the game is (in release terms) done and has been long enough to go through at least two bonus rounds of iteration.
Kblavkalash
23-12-2011, 15:27
Because they are quoted that they have given the Korean rating board a full copy of the game with all content added. If all the reasons that have been mentioned prior do not convince you, this, at least, is empirical evidence. The Korean board asked for more material to properly rate the game. Blizzard responded by giving them a full copy of the game.
How would that be possible if the cake wasn't baked yet?
Can you give me a source on that please?
GoldenredDragon
23-12-2011, 17:18
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLsOF-c0_0
This is the history of the SC2 engine. Now look at the number of builds. And the big big difference between the first images and the last. It's like 12 thousand builds between a "fully functional game", and the shipped product.
Now for D3, it should look quite the same. They have something that's working "perfectly", and guess what, after 6 months of tweeking, it still isn't up to what the devs want, the players expect, you name it.
So what you are saying is that "still being worked on legendary and set items; lack of clear details on unattuned and high level runes; new, altered, or rearranged skills, runes, and passives; and new features like the Nephalem Altar, Arcane Enchanted beam thingy, etc" are not to be considered content that needs development or show evidence that the game recently needed development, that Blizzard is wrong when they say they are still developing the game and that that is the only reason for the delay, and that factors other than game development that they have already denied effecting the release date are effecting the release date?
Resting on their laurels? Seriously?
I need an aspirin.
Clearly you do need an aspirin. I know Jay Wilson and Micah Whipple, and Rob Pardo, etc etc etc. I've interviewed, had dinner with, and talked casually with all of these people. I'm not speaking from an ignorant point of view. This isn't a "theories shooting facts, or facts shooting theories" sort of discussion. I'm just stating what I know from the details I've gathered from my experiences.
Everything that you've just stated is not content. If you differ on the definition of what "content" is, then humor me by deferring to my definition. That is to say, content is core mechanics, story, environment, and assets that create the gaming experience. If you are gleaning your insight from the beta content and the Diablo community site for your foundation on "level of completeness," then this discussion is over, as the beta is 15 or so builds behind what they have in-house (probably even more).
We have had definite states of "shippable" points in the game's mechanics. There is a good amount of leg-room for the stamp of "good enough." That point was met long ago for many of the mechanics (if not all), which are only now going over revision because they can. Recalling from my interview with Jay back in July, he stated that runes were at a shippable point, but he explained where he'd like to go with runes and the possible change to the unattuned mechanic. If you also remember, the nephalem altar had about a 1-month turn-around in crunch time. The arcane enchanted changes were a response to the difficulty spike for new players. In other words, all of these changes are beta-response tweaks. I asked Jay about the iteration process once, and he said that it works fairly simply when it comes to spells. They use what they call a "snow" sheet that contains the parameters of any single spell, any numbers that contribute to it. As they are built in modular components, they only need to drag, drop, and tweak numbers/shaders to get what they want.
Not to mention, everything that you're seeing coming into reality now is the result of months of iteration - things that have already been tested in-house and were put into the game for "real-player" testing. The thing here is that in crunch time, those changes would be rapid-fire. Right now it resembles feature creep, or in this case, "tweak creep." had they stayed the course, we'd have seen these changes in quick succession.
But I digress. The point of the matter is that these changes are ongoing because they can be (and would be, still, even if the game had already shipped). The problem now is the gray area created by the stalling from their priority 1 issues. Because we're certain that they're working on more than just the RMAH and other issues, one could make the incorrect assumption that this is contributing to the delayed release of the game. But again, what I and Azzure have maintained, these changes are not release-stallers. Platforming, legalities, and revenue insurances are the blockades. We know the game is playable from start to finish, and according to the Korean boards and the translation, the GRB has asked for more content - which Blizzard has provided (being the full game and all).
Anyways... there is a lot of nuance that goes into game development.
Also... if you're wondering about my and Azzure's "korea is the main issue for release" comes from the horse's mouth.
Hello Diablo III community,
Thanks for your enthusiasm and encouragement about Diablo III that was announced at this past Blizzcon, and thanks for your high quality feedback about the game. I want to take this opportunity to give you an update on the Diablo III release. The main issues we're having right now are in regards to Korea's potential real money auction house and associated ratings for the game.
Link:Source (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3657432730)
If you need more from the EU community on the desire for a global launch (rough translation):
Although a global launch of the game is always our preference, I would like to point out that there was not always possible to release the game simultaneously across the world and that circumvent this has not stopped the release of the game.
Just think of what happened in China with the expansion of WoW, for example.
Each region has always unique challenges, especially when it comes to business models (Brazil and Russia for StarCraft II) or legal issues (China and South Korea).
Looking back from Blizzard and its release, these issues have directly impacted the date of issue in other regions.
Link:Source (http://eu.battle.net/d3/it/forum/topic/3010644251?page=5)
Now, one might think that the quote above points to a "Korea isn't the problem" result. However, D3 isn't region-locked and they're looking for a global release. Translation: global issues are directly impacting the release of D3 (as mentioned int he 1st quote).
Grayson Carlyle
23-12-2011, 18:20
The problem now is the gray area created by the stalling from their priority 1 issues. Because we're certain that they're working on more than just the RMAH and other issues. That's extremely apparent. But again, what I and Azzure have maintained, these changes are not release-stallers. Platforming, legalities, and revenue insurances are the blockades. We know the game is playable from start to finish, and according to the Korean boards and the translation, the GRB has asked for more content - which Blizzard has provided (being the full game and all).
Anyways... there is a lot of nuance that goes into game development.
Also... if you're wondering about my and Azzure's "korea is the main issue for release" comes from the horse's mouth.
Link:Source (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3657432730)
If you need more from the EU community on the desire for a global launch (rough translation):
Link:Source (http://eu.battle.net/d3/it/forum/topic/3010644251?page=5)
Now, one might think that the quote above points to a "Korea isn't the problem" result. However, D3 isn't region-locked and they're looking for a global release. Translation: global issues are directly impacting the release of D3 (as mentioned int he 1st quote).
That statement is directed at, and applies to only the Korean release. It is not holding the game up. Neither are legalities or revenue insurances, or as you mentioned, content and mechanics. Legalities have been solved in every location but Korea. Revenue insurances were done more than a year ago, or they would've canned the game entirely already; that notion is just absurd.
You're playing the beta, so I don't know how you can't see this. Battle.net and the AH are broken. Auctions disappear, money disappears, winners don't get their auctions, expired auctions don't return the items to their owners. Considering this is their platform for exchanging real money, it cannot go live in its current state as those are huge liability issues, especially when they claim that it is "secure, safe and reliable". It is none of those right now. There are quite possibly other issues that we don't know about that are holding it up, but to deny Battle.net and RMAH issues as being pivotal while claiming Korea is affecting the release at all is just ignorant.
That statement is directed at, and applies to only the Korean release. It is not holding the game up. Neither are legalities or revenue insurances, or as you mentioned, content and mechanics. Legalities have been solved in every location but Korea. Revenue insurances were done more than a year ago, or they would've canned the game entirely already; that notion is just absurd.
You're playing the beta, so I don't know how you can't see this. Battle.net and the AH are broken. Auctions disappear, money disappears, winners don't get their auctions, expired auctions don't return the items to their owners. Considering this is their platform for exchanging real money, it cannot go live in its current state as those are huge liability issues, especially when they claim that it is "secure, safe and reliable". It is none of those right now. There are quite possibly other issues that we don't know about that are holding it up, but to deny Battle.net and RMAH issues as being pivotal while claiming Korea is affecting the release at all is just ignorant.
Well, other than the fact that you're wrong about my quotes, RMAH and Battle.net are not considered game content, as it's not the game. They fall in the platforming and RMAH issues that I stated in my first explanations in this thread. My response was in direct relation to the one section of my first response that involved the issues in Korea. I'd recommend reading my full position before responding with hostility.
It degrades your position.
Grayson Carlyle
23-12-2011, 18:31
Well, other than the fact that you're wrong about my quotes, RMAH and Battle.net are not considered game content, as it's not the game. They fall in the platforming and RMAH issues that I stated in my first explanations in this thread. My response was in direct relation to the one section of my response that involved the issues in Korea. I'd recommend reading my full position before responding with hostility.
It degrades your position.
I specifically stated content wasn't the issue, so chalk one up for you not reading either.
However, you specifically stated, and I will quote agian:
"Because we're certain that they're working on more than just the RMAH and other issues. That's extremely apparent. But again, what I and Azzure have maintained, these changes are not release-stallers."
You said RMAH and platforming are not release-stallers, which is the argument I'm making, that they are.
"Because we're certain that they're working on more than just the RMAH and other issues. That's extremely apparent. But again, what I and Azzure have maintained, these changes are not release-stallers."
You said RMAH and platforming are not release-stallers, which is the argument I'm making, that they are.
Please re-read what you just quoted. I clearly (or at least I what I felt was clear) grouped RMAH and other issues as priority 1 issues. The fact that they are working on things BEYOND those priority-1 issues is apparent (because they do continue to make tweaks to the game). This is in reference to my previous sentences, expanding upon those issues that the person I was responding to was stating. The work that extends beyond the RMAH and other issues AREN'T the issue, as they fall under "tweaks and balance" and not content. So in direct terms: the RMAH and other issues (like Korea) ARE the issues, while other work is NOT.
If that was a convoluted meaning, then I apologize for the incoherent grammar.
[EDIT]I also noticed that the sentence you quoted seems to be missing a correlative clause that I meant to tack on. I think what I had meant to write full was the following:
"Because we're certain that they're working on more than just the RMAH and other issues, one can make the false assumption that the peripheral tweaks we see contribute to the stalling of the game's release."
Grayson Carlyle
23-12-2011, 18:41
That was a rather confusing amalgamation of sentences, but I understand now and see how it was meant to be read. I'll admit I was probably reading it wrong in some part due to looking for problems in your argument.
That was a rather confusing amalgamation of sentences, but I understand now and see how it was meant to be read. I'll admit I was probably reading it wrong in some part due to looking for problems in your argument.
And I apologize for what I'm sure seemed like a heated response. :)
I think the sentence I wrote originally was just incomplete... as it's a fragment.
Scorch Hellfire
23-12-2011, 19:49
You would think that they would have learned by now that they need to start on the Battle.net stuff earlier in the development cycles so it isn't holding up their games all the time... this is the second time this has happened...
Hehe I was reading both of your responses and thought it was odd that both of you were saying the same thing, just not aware at the time!
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