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Musashi
01-12-2011, 22:13
I just ordered D2 to play it again to wile away the time before D3 comes out. I haven't played D2 in about five years. I was thinking what class I'd like to play and in general what I would get out of playing it even though I played it to death for several years already. What did I really enjoy when playing it?

For me the real enjoyment was playing in a four person team. Once I got used to that, going solo felt like a very lonely experience. Even less than four people seemed gimped from the fun factor.

There will be no shortage of people to team with when the game comes out but I found that I've been using the skill calculator in a vacuum of sorts. I have been dreaming up builds as if I would be solo'ing the game. I see the benefit of solo the game the first time through to really take my time with the content, but once I've done that, and maybe even before, I cannot imagine that I would not be in 4 person teams every single time I played. That could be literally years of playing the game, based on the fun D1 and D2 provided.

Consequently, I realized that when I team I mainly enjoy being a true benefit to the team. For instance I would not bother with any MF or GF gear when teaming due to the decreased utility I would provide for the team. That's just me, not trying to open up that can of worms.

When you consider that the Barbarian is the only class that can function in a meat shield/tank function, I thought it would be fun to build a barbarian that is solely designed to help the team succeed. You can make an argument that if everyone is maxing out their damage that would then be the most effective way to contribute, but due to the higher difficulties no doubt proving quite the different animal, I think helping the team on higher difficulties will be best accomplished through a DEFENSIVE Barbarian.

In that vein, when you design a build without damage being much of a concern at all, it's amazing what you can come up!

The Barb still has a Runestone effect of a taunt. This exists in D2 as well. In D3, it's currently Threatening Shout-Crimson (Demoralize).

That had me thinking that the best way to be an effective tank in D3 is to not only absorb damage but keep the enemies away from your more squishy friends. The Taunt of Threatenign Shout certainly does that but guess what else does that?

The skills that cause monsters to be pulled closer to you. Clumping the monsters to you would not only free your friends from being able to blast away with relative immunity but also use AOE's and other skills that would take advantage of clumped baddies.

It's amazing when viewed from this lens that the Barbarian has many skills that pull monsters toward him (read: away from the rest of the party).

Here is the build:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#cdgeRb!bcV!YZYYYZ

For those of you unable to link through:
1.Cleave-Indigo (Draw Enemies in from 20 Yards away before the strike lands)
2.Leap Attack-Crimson (Shockwaves burst forth from the ground at the destination and knock enemies toward you from 33.8 yards away)
3.Ground Stomp-Inidigo (Increase the area of effect to 24 years. Enemies are pulled closer before the strike lands.)
4.Ancient Spear-Indigo (Throw 5 spears. Each spear will pull back the enemy that it hits.
5. Threatening Shout-Crimson (Affected Enemies are also taunted to attack you for 6 seconds.)

That is 5 skills that pull enemies to you! That might be overkill but for sure no mob is going to escape your grasp. The question is can your teammates kill fast enough for you to survive that much attention.

The stun on Ground stomp would help.

The last skill is
6.War Cry-Indigo (War Cry also grants 21% dodge bonus)

War Cry combined with the passives all for defense should help the survivability:
Nerves of Steel
Inspiring Presence
Tough as Nails


What do you all think? Ultimate protector barb?

Kingu
02-12-2011, 10:36
As you made 5 of 6 skills generators it may by safe to swap "Ground stomp" with Seismic Slam- Obsidian, for damage with high chance of stun.
Also I don't know how dodge vs elemental works, but swapping War Cry Indigo for Obsidian (Resistance) might be more beneficial.

Musashi
02-12-2011, 10:52
Great ideas Kingu, thanks!

I agree, Seismic Slam-Obsidian looks better. As you say, Fury was my main concern since I'm not taking any passives to boost that or Runes but with that many fury generators if I just use seismic slam further down the chain shouldn't be a problem. You trade 100% 3 second stun of Ground Stomp for 70% chance for 3 second stun but with a lot more damage and more importantly no cool down. The cool down on Ground Stomp might cause my attack chain to be tight.

I also agree with you on War Cry. No way to know until we have more information, but either way either dodge or resist bonus will be a huge help depending on the mechanics and which one benefits a surrounded barb the most!

Another thing that would be nice to know if Tough as Nails Passive adds on 100% armor or Multiplies your current armor percentage by 100%. That sounds way too juicy so I'm guessing just an additional 100% to the percentage added on.

galzohar
02-12-2011, 15:47
I'm quite unsure of how effective a "tank" build could really be. If inferno enemies are truly tough and scale properly for 4 players, then no single character would be able to actually "tank" them all without dying quite fast. Of course we'll have to wait and see, but again, overall diablo seems to be a game that moves away from the tank/heal/dps concept, which is a good thing imo.

We also still don't know how effective armor is, thus we don't know how effective would be double/triple armor. If armor adds 10% effective HP, then double/triple armor is not all that much. But if armor doubles your effective HP, then double/triple armor would be quite nice (but you would still be vulnerable to magic without high resistances).

Musashi
02-12-2011, 16:19
Interesting point galzohar.

I agree I'm glad it's actually tough to make defined role builds but maybe that's why it's fun thinking of one.

My WD build is all poison so that's more conceptual than role oriented, so as far as I can think up, the barb is the only one who seems capable of it.

SlimShake
02-12-2011, 19:46
Your post actually influenced me enough to muster the gumption to register for this site.... well played sir. I have been following D3 closely since August, not so closely since 2009(?). Although they have said time and time again that tank/healer/dps roles are not going to be implemented (needed), they have left all the tools in place to make exactly that, a tank (your wonderfully thought out build), a healer (my build - link forthcoming), and a dps character (pretty much every other build seen on this site). Considering, theoretically, they wont be necessary (needed/viable), I will still find myself playing the healer role. Why you may ask? Because its fun for me. I've always had a fondness in my heart for swooping in at the last second to raise a teammate from the cusp of utter defeat, to the precipice of eternal glory. Anyway, dramatics aside, I just love seeing full health bars. My build would make a great partner for yours, so long as we can find 2 dps players to group with which, judging from the plethora of builds I've looked at on these forums, shouldn't be hard. With that being said, here's "my" build -

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#hdXfSg!fcd!bbYbZb

Please leave your comments/concerns with our "team" builds and I look forward to grouping with you, and all others whom utilize your build, very, very Soon™.

galzohar
03-12-2011, 14:27
What I mean is, look at your build. Only 2 skills and 2 passives really help you last longer (ground stomp helps too but the stun is pretty damn short), and my bet is they won'y make you last any more than ~3-4X longer. Maybe a bit more if you swap out the crimson rune on threatening shout. You then spend 3 more skills on pulling enemies to you and dealing pretty low damage to them.

You could probably make a much better defensive barb, that will only be a slightly less effective tank, but can actually be a pretty decent killer.

For example:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#cbgUSY!bYV!ZbcbZZ


My bet is that if Blizzard is going to limit synergy between skills, then inferno builds will either be defensive like the one I posted (except 1 good damage fury generator and spender), or at least use a lot of cooldown skills. Getting multiple generators or spenders seems rather pointless if they don't synergize, but defensive skills pretty much always synergize with anything.


Similar can be said about the monk build. Too much "what other support stuff can I add" and too little "and how am I going to help kill stuff?" IMO.

Matora
07-12-2011, 16:20
I can't wait to crack open Diablo III with my friends on release and jump into the shoes of a Barbarian, fighting at the front , covering my friends. I just feel more powerful surviving storms of arrows and fire while they run in fear. I want to survive and keep them alive, letting them hammer the demons home.

Messing with the skill calculator I came up with this.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#gdcbUX!dcV!aZYbYc

Thoughts/ideas?

I hope to be able to keep things around me close and stay alive (Hence the lifesteal passive which I see less and less on builds posted around here) while also being mobile (with jump) to get to allies to defend them (Unless we get to backstabbing which is a blast).

On a side note: Something seems amiss. The Indigo Runestone on Revenge seems a tad out of whack. I''m guessing it's only supposed to be a 27% chance to activate, not 127%

*edit*

Also, as far as 'What can I do for my team'as opposed 'what can I do for me' If you stay alive and keep the enemies on you, what else is there? As difficulties progress, a Barbarian really needs to stay alive and stop the squishies being overrun, at least on the first playthrough nightmare and Hell without amazing gear, we're going to need to watch each others backs.

Party buffs are all well and good, but is boosting their armor or health regen useful outside of blind panic mode when something starts facestomping them? Heals like the monks are good, but situational. Distraction and crowd control is a way to play constantly. Stay alive, keep em coming at you.

Rambling. Early in the AM and off nightshift tonight.

galzohar
07-12-2011, 20:17
I'd still prefer my build. If you *really* want to pull enemies to you, you can swap the cleave Crimson rune out for an Indigo rune. But having 2 skills (leap attack and cleave) for the sole purpose of pulling enemies seems counter-productive - Less killing, less survivability and suicidal on top of everything.

I'm not a big fan of ignore pain. I'm not even sure what I might be able to pull of during those 5 seconds, not to mention if you use it at low HP then it doesn't help all that much anyway as an "oh-!@#$" button.

Inspiring presence is unimpressive too. Golden revenge will hopefully be all the healing that is needed. We'll have to see though - Either add more defensive stuff or add more healing stuff if it ends up insufficient. On the other hand, nerves of steel seems like it will be very useful for anyone trying to up his survivability (potentially moreso than tough as nails, since defense works for everything and not just physical damage, but of course we'll have to see how it turns out).

Musashi
07-12-2011, 23:31
Good responses all! I have now modified my own idea to make a Bring you all around me, group hug kind of Barb to also have a very good chance to solo as well as be a wonderful teammate.

Gone is the Taunt effect but what got me to change my thinking some is the passive, Berserker Rage and Brawler combined.

When If first read Berserker Rage, I completely dismissed it because I was thinking, when the heck would I be maxed out with fury normally? Not often generally speaking.
But if you figure you get 5 or more mobs around you, within 8 yards (that's pretty close) you get 30% damage increase. What if you used almost all fury generators and also had as your last passive, Unforgiven? Then you'd be at max fury all the time, like really, all the time lol. So that 20% Damage bonus from Berserker Rage would apply to all of your skills.

If you can use a lot of your fury generators utilizing both of those passives you'll get an additional 50% damage. Wowza's!

So you would lead off with:
Leap Attack (Crimson - pull them in from 33 yards away)
then,
Ancient Spear (Indigo -Throw 5 spears to pull back mobs from 45 yards away
then hit them with,
Ground Stomp (Indigo - Effect out to 24 yards, pull enemies toward you before strike)
and then you can either
Bash (Indigo - 10% dmg boost stackable 5 times) individuals still standing

or if there are still a bunch around, finally use a fury expender in,
Weapon Throw (Indigo - weapon will riccochet and hit 5 targets within 20 yards)

Weapon Throw is only 10 fury so you could spam it or if they're all dead, get back quickly to max fury and rinse and repeat. I would think that the first Weapon Throw would also get one or both of the passives damage increases because you should get the first throw at max fury and if there are still more than 5 standing around you also get the other dmg % increase. Either way, by that point, everything should be dead dead dead.

Bash was important to take instead of Cleave with it's pulling rune, because at some point you have to fight big boys and the damage bonus rune there should work super well for those one on one fights.

I like this a lot and it's my current build concept I'm going to use!
It will help a team a lot to pull guys toward you like that, but also should be able to even solo it...

I throw in Warcry so that I don't have to spend fury keeping me maxed out and also because it's my own heal,
Warcry (Alabaster ...healing every second)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#adRegW!XgS!YZYYaY


My other idea is to do the same basic thing, but add in Seismic slam Alabaster for those distance situations and Earthquake to ensure a killing sequence of:
Leap, Spear, Stomp and Earthquake.

It may be that I have more fury than I know what to do with as after an Earthquake use of 30 fury, one leap and spear and I'm right back to max fury and can stomp and bash bash bash. Rinse and repeat.

I'd be using Bash for single targets, bosses etc and Seismic Slam Cracking Rift to get those pesky hard to reach guys.

Here is a link for my second build idea:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#adReSi!XgS!YZYYab

nickrim
14-12-2011, 05:01
wait d3 is gonna be role specific like wow?

galzohar
14-12-2011, 14:09
wait d3 is gonna be role specific like wow?

No. If you would have read the whole thread you would not have asked that question :)