I was just looking at some of the Art-work and came across this: http://i56.tinypic.com/1iwoz.jpg

I then proceeded to look at all the concept art for the Witch Doctor. I was shocked at how cool the concepts were. These images DO NOT represent the way the class turned out at all.

There is a major disconnect between the actual design of the class and the concept. The concept of the WD is this dark and mysterious creepy dude who controls death and voodoo in a very lethal way.

The WD in-game however, is a clown-type character who throws frogs at people, piles Acrobatic zombies that climb on each others backs and bellyflop into enemies and basically makes a fool of the entire concept of creepy, undead mysterious guy that is so evident in the concept Art. His abilities are extremely comedic, weak-looking (half his abilities consist of simply using dead-weight as a weapon) and just straight-out immersion-breaking.

I've played WD in the Beta, and while it is just a small taste of the class, it basically showed just how disconnected this class is with the concept.

What went wrong? Why did they turn a cool character into a joke? Am I the only one who feels like they really dropped the ball on the WD?

In response to your very last question: yes and no...

I agree that they have definitely changed the witch doctor from what could have been to what is, and that there is a large disconnect between those. I disagree that the change is all bad. I rather enjoy what I have seen of the witch doctor, and think he/she will be an interesting and fun character to build and play.

I would probably feel the same way if he/she were more dark and gritty as well, but for different reasons. After all, if the witch doctor were too dark and gritty, and only dealt with death and the undead, wouldn't he/she just be a different-looking, different-sounding necromancer?

My only guess is they are trying to move him away from the Necro class so he can debut in an upcoming expansion.

But I don't agree with how stupid the type of damage the Witch Doctor inflicts - body weight of zombies? Frogs touching you?

i'm not gonna touch the zombie tower as i also believe thats lame, but the frogs? they fit perfectly and they don't TOUCH you, they EXPLODE.

Is the voice acting just a placeholder?

i'm not gonna touch the zombie tower as i also believe thats lame, but the frogs? they fit perfectly and they don't TOUCH you, they EXPLODE.

The frogs do seem interesting, but I can't help but think the implementation failed the concept. First off, the fact that they glow takes a lot out of the creepy factor. They look like generic magic projectiles and less like frogs. Furthermore, the fact that there are only three frogs per use and they explode immediately makes them even less creepy. Aesthetically it feels no different than the Wizard's shock pulse.

It would be much more interesting if there were six frogs per attack, if they hopped faster and more randomly, did not glow, and if they jumped ON enemies and THEN exploded shortly after.

Just exploding on your feet doesn't seem that cool, but getting covered in frogs and THEN exploding is much more cool and scary. For bonus points they could make it so you see the frogs swelling up before they explode.

The frogs do seem interesting, but I can't help but think the implementation failed the concept. First off, the fact that they glow takes a lot out of the creepy factor. They look like generic magic projectiles and less like frogs. Furthermore, the fact that there are only three frogs per use and they explode immediately makes them even less creepy. Aesthetically it feels no different than the Wizard's shock pulse.

It would be much more interesting if there were six frogs per attack, if they hopped faster and more randomly, did not glow, and if they jumped ON enemies and THEN exploded shortly after.

Just exploding on your feet doesn't seem that cool, but getting covered in frogs and THEN exploding is much more cool and scary. For bonus points they could make it so you see the frogs swelling up before they explode.

This is why it's comical. Plague of Toads is a mirror of shock pulse (old charged bolt) but it's graphic interactions look clunky. I don't mind duplicate skills but they shouldn't interact with monsters in a manner that doesn't feel right. Charged Bolt would move very similarly but when it engaged a monster it would arc to them and display a nice electrocution animation.

This is the same reason why I don't like wall of zombies. Again, it borrows from an existing spell in Wall of Fire but ends up looking clunky. The zombies flail their arms about randomly, not targeting anything in particular while they deal tick-tick-tick damage.

I was just looking at some of the Art-work and came across this: http://i56.tinypic.com/1iwoz.jpg


That concept art is BADASS

Frogs and walls of zombies are less ridiculous than axes that create brown arcs when swung or arrows that leave lines in the air....

Basically this post is just about the OP rantings on the animations of the frogs and wall of zombies spells.

And due the limitation of beta, he has not even tried his hands on anything else.

No skill runes, no nothing, besides spamming some low level abilities, yet he already assumes the class is a joke.

A legitimate argument indeed, this thread is a joke.

I was just looking at some of the Art-work and came across this: http://i56.tinypic.com/1iwoz.jpg

I then proceeded to look at all the concept art for the Witch Doctor. I was shocked at how cool the concepts were. These images DO NOT represent the way the class turned out at all.

There is a major disconnect between the actual design of the class and the concept. The concept of the WD is this dark and mysterious creepy dude who controls death and voodoo in a very lethal way.

The WD in-game however, is a clown-type character who throws frogs at people, piles Acrobatic zombies that climb on each others backs and bellyflop into enemies and basically makes a fool of the entire concept of creepy, undead mysterious guy that is so evident in the concept Art. His abilities are extremely comedic, weak-looking (half his abilities consist of simply using dead-weight as a weapon) and just straight-out immersion-breaking.

I've played WD in the Beta, and while it is just a small taste of the class, it basically showed just how disconnected this class is with the concept.

What went wrong? Why did they turn a cool character into a joke? Am I the only one who feels like they really dropped the ball on the WD?

What i got out of this:

1. Sweet concept art
2. Haters gonna hate
3. Dont see anything related to a clown on the Witch Doctor...He doesnt make me laugh either :(

Witch Doctor is totally awesome, what one person doesn't like, another does. It's called taste.

What i got out of this:

1. Sweet concept art
2. Haters gonna hate
3. Dont see anything related to a clown on the Witch Doctor...He doesnt make me laugh either :(

So you don't think zombies climbing onto each others shoulders and belly flopping onto enemies resembles clownish behavior?

A metaphore can be made here. At first Capoeïra looks like a spasm of movements combined YET a well trained Capoeïra fighter will kick your a$$ so hard that you won't ever laugh at the style again.

Another metaphore, to include an old fighting game. In the game 'Street Fighter' a toon called Dhalsim fought different than all the other toons, yet once mastered he could reap havoc from afar, (Yoga fi-ah)

Like said before, it's all a matter of playstyle, one likes it close up and personal (barb, monk) the other likes the foes at a distance (wizard, DH). To create a third playstyle they imported a class such as the WD.
I'm all for different playstyles as it adds to the longlevity of the game Blizzard worked so hard to develop for us ;)

A metaphore can be made here. At first Capoeïra looks like a spasm of movements combined YET a well trained Capoeïra fighter will kick your a$$ so hard that you won't ever laugh at the style again.

Another metaphore, to include an old fighting game. In the game 'Street Fighter' a toon called Dhalsim fought different than all the other toons, yet once mastered he could reap havoc from afar, (Yoga fi-ah)

Like said before, it's all a matter of playstyle, one likes it close up and personal (barb, monk) the other likes the foes at a distance (wizard, DH). To create a third playstyle they imported a class such as the WD.
I'm all for different playstyles as it adds to the longlevity of the game Blizzard worked so hard to develop for us ;)

What does playstyle have to do with this? This topic is about Witch Doctor aesthetics being unnecessarily silly.

The point I was (trying to) make is that playstyles may look odd (clownish) and different but it's just another way of playing the game. It adds diversity to a game and some'll like and some'll dislike it.

There are many things aesthetically i won't like about this and many other games i buy.
I'm not for bright colours in games and things that look comical.
Perhaps some of the less liked "art" and or idea's won't last.

I personally wanted Diablo 3 so dark you'd think your monitor was turned off.

The point I was (trying to) make is that playstyles may look odd (clownish) and different but it's just another way of playing the game. It adds diversity to a game and some'll like and some'll dislike it.
Ok then what do you mean by "playstyle"? I would say that playstyle is a set of game mechanics. You seem to think that a few random aesthetic details somehow constitute an essential aspect of a playstyle.

EDIT: Wrong thread

WD just has that goofy feel, where as in the concept art it has more necromancer(evil) feel to it.

I think Blizzard's making room for expansion, just in case they need to add a 'dark' class.

Than they might as well add a Blackguard juxtaposed to a Templar

I agree with OP, the concept is way off from how it is now. Even though WD is still my favourite. Not only in skills does Blizzard miss the style, also in his personality. He actually is very polite right now, how does that go with that concept art?

I would love to see Blizzard change the WD to a more evil/dark character in the coming months, removing or changing skills that I and many others find silly in the current build and giving him a darker voice and personality.
Bring forth the dark shamanistic WD like in the concept art. Time for a poll...

Wirt

LOL!!! i always disliked some of the WD skills like Pile on, all of the hex skill concept WTF? chikens???? why not voodo dolls i really prefer that vs chikens...

i like the frogs i think suits the class but things like the toad of hugeness, i loved when i saw in blizzcon but now that i see the dmg and the CD its not atractive to me, same for horrify rune effects, also the dmg on the spirit barrage skill. Blizz have to do something with this class couse it looks more like a circus character than a hero, better for me couse makes more room for a dark necromancer on the expansion :D but i really wanted to play a cool WD maybe not to dark but more trival and less funny? i would liked the spirit skills were related to animals too like horrify was a half jaguar/human spirit! or a demonic half human/howling monkey spirit! and haunt were like serpent spirits, and spirit barrage like an bigger and uglier serpent spirit and mas conffusion was like a half Chameleon/human spirit or something like that... soul havest would have added spirit bats in the nova , always things on the animal jungle side dont know if you people would like it. and zombie dogs? didnt be better like zombie feline like panters or back to the mongrel concept but making like baboons? and zombie bears?!?! it would be better if they were more like zombie gorillas? im just saying blizz would go to a more original way on theyre character. my 2 cents

Well... @Wirt

in the lore they were polite to Albahazir (spelled wrong idc) and treated him nicely. Plus, just because someone wields horrific power means that they would look/act evil. In fact- they would be more likely to take someone off guard if they were soft spoken.

I just don't understand why people think the WD has to be a dark/evil character. I never felt like that was the direction the producers were looking to take and the concept of the character shows that.

Please, read the description:


Witch doctors are spiritual warriors who summon dead souls and crawling creatures to do their bidding. By surrounding themselves with conjured zombies and vermin, witch doctors are free to assault their enemies with exploding skulls, acrid poison clouds, and wasting curses.

Read even the background; there is no disconnect between concept and character. He's a witch doctor, not the devil or a necromancer 2.0. Yeah some of skills are a little too silly but hey, that's a design issue not a conceptual one.

upon entering the Blood Moor): "All who oppose me... beware."

(upon entering the Den of Evil (area)): "I sense...death within this place."

(upon clearing the Den of Evil (area)): "Is that enough to earn the Rogues' trust?"

(upon entering the Burial Grounds): "Too many empty graves..."

(upon killing Blood Raven): (laughing)"Blood Raven... rest well."

(upon touching the Cairn Stones): "I sense many spirits about these stones."

(upon touching the Tree of Inifuss): "This tree shines with inner spirit."

(upon reaching Tristram): "All that's left of proud Tristram are ghosts and ashes."

(upon freeing Deckard Cain): "Deckard Cain, if you value your life, leave here immediately!"

(upon entering the Forgotten Tower: "This place... reeks of death."

(upon killing The Countess): "Treasure hunting, heh. Treasure finding, yes!"

(upon entering the Monastery Gate) : "This place has the stench of demons about it!"

(upon reclaiming the Horadric Malus): "All this for a hammer?!"

(upon entering the Jail): "Ahh, the slow torture of caged starvation."

(upon entering the Catacombs): "I sense... a demonic presence here..."

(upon defeating Andariel): "Back to the Hell that spawned you, Andariel!"

Act II

(upon killing Radament) "What a waste of undead flesh."

(upon entering the Claw Viper Temple) "This place is as dark as a tomb."

(upon shattering the Tainted Sun Altar) "What a pity... I was beginning to enjoy the darkness."

(upon entering the Arcane Sanctuary) "This is fantastic! I wish I had time to study this bizarre dimension!"

(upon killing The Summoner) "He was not Horazon, he was a deluded fool who got too close to true power."

(after talking with Tyrael) "I came too late. Now destruction is let loose upon the world once more."

Act III

(upon obtaining the Jade Figurine) "A worthless statue. Perhaps I can trade this for something better."

(upon obtaining The Gidbinn) "This is a powerful weapon... perhaps Ormus can tell me more about it."

(upon obtaining Lam Esen's Tome) "Once the book has served its purpose, I shall delve into its secrets."

(after defeating the High Council of Zakarum) "The temple's dark power is broken."

(after killing Mephisto) " Good journey, Mephisto. Give my regards to the abyss."

Act IV

(upon defeating Izual) "Izual was weak... he squandered his infernal power."

(after slaying Diablo) "Lord Diablo, I have bested you!"

Act V

(upon entering the Bloody Foothills) "It takes more than a siege to stop me!"

(after slaying Shenk the Overseer) "My my, what a messy little demon."

(upon freeing the last soldiers in the Frigid Highlands) "Follow me."

(upon entering Nihlathak's Temple) "Ah, the familiar scent of death."

(after defeating Nihlathak) "You were a sad little man, Nihlathak."

(upon reaching the Arreat Summit) "The resting place of the Ancients."

(upon entering the Worldstone Chamber) "So this is what the Ancients guard."

(after slaying Baal) "Baal, never doubt my skills."



Wirt is right. The WD is way too polite, and much more than the necro, who is a humanist and fighting for humanity, however at the same time he is also arrogant and a bit snarky( a cool english adjective i just learned) as you can see above. I really loved that contrast. However, that may be intentional, because they don´t want him like the necro, as blizzard may have plans to bring someone like him back.

I think the Witch Doctor is great right now, but I agree he could be a bit darker. It's the spells that get a little goofy later down the line. Hex (especially with chicken-mode rune) and Wall of Zombies come to mind.

Truth be told I'm surprised Blizzard implemented a character model that wasn't good-looking. This guy is frail, with a gut, and some sort of nervous disease from his use of Voodoo. I LOVE when devs go out on a limb and make a cool fresh character like this. In contrast to, say, the Demon Hunter.

His skills are split between gruesome and horrifying (Zombie Dogs look evil as all hell, Soul Harvest is a really dark spell) jungle magic (Locusts, spiders, frogs, bats... I love the flavor of this) and sillier spells (Hex, Fetish spells, perhaps Gargantuan).

I think he's very well done atm but as always there's things I'd do different.

I think the Witchdoctor is the perfect mix, a weak, polite body and demeanor yet an intense and great inner power. Just shows that the physical body has nothing to do with the power that one can wield.

The WD in-game however, is a clown-type character who throws frogs at people, piles Acrobatic zombies that climb on each others backs and bellyflop into enemies and basically makes a fool of the entire concept of creepy, undead mysterious guy that is so evident in the concept Art. His abilities are extremely comedic, weak-looking (half his abilities consist of simply using dead-weight as a weapon) and just straight-out immersion-breaking.

I would like to pick this post apart piece by piece, because I find it dreadfully inaccurate.

First off - I concede that exploding frogs are comical, and zombies limber enough to climb on top of each other is a ridiculous concept, and anything involving chickens cannot be taken too seriously.

However, to say that this completely breaks the tone of the character is, in my opinion, grossly inaccurate.

Ghosts, zombies, bats, insects, and arachnids are all creepy. The Witch Doctor is full of unsettling moves. I think that the ability to summon such odd creatures and contort them in such unnatural ways - in addition to using his large array of more disturbing summons - adds to his mysterious demeanor and serves to confuse and unsettle his enemies. In the same way that an animal will stand on its hind legs to appear taller and more intimidating, the Witch Doctor will twist the natural order of things in order to unsettle and cause doubt in his enemies.

Additionally, I do not understand the portion of the argument which references dead weight being used as a weapon. Most of the Witch Doctor's abilities revolve around creating fire, creating poison, summoning and controlling various animals and spirits, and manipulating the behavior of his enemies. In what skills is this "dead weight" present besides perhaps Pile On and a few of the Zombie Charger variations?

Witch Doctors focus on both demoralizing enemies and conjuring damaging spirits capable of devastating elemental attacks using both extremely unconventional and intimidating magic and the power of the natural jungle life. The foreign and unfamiliar creepy vibe is still very much present throughout the class, with the more unconventional skills serving to clarify that his fighting style is wild and unpredictable due to his skill set which focuses on the disparities and connections present within the natural (physical) and supernatural (spirit) realms.

pcguy, couldn't have put it better myself! Love the grasp you have on the concept of the Witchdoctor!

I like the old concept arts for the witch doctor, but I still think the witch doctor has the coolest abilities currently.

Well... @Wirt

in the lore they were polite to Albahazir (spelled wrong idc) and treated him nicely. Plus, just because someone wields horrific power means that they would look/act evil. In fact- they would be more likely to take someone off guard if they were soft spoken.

It's just like my mama always said: "Walk softly and carry a big stick".

It just means be nice and calm but be ready to lay the smackdown if needs be. I always find the idea of a quiet and seemingly broken man fuelled with power an interesting one, so yes the WD does intrigue me, I hope they keep that aspect of his character, a seemingly vulnerable wretch with horrifying (think zombie dogs, sacrifice, soul harvest etc) power.

As someone else pointed out there's lots of cartoonish/comical effects in this game. It's something that I both like and dislike. I like how the effects look cool and light up the screen. I don't like how the effects take you out of the immersion because they appear so comical and unrealistic.

As someone said before the demon hunter's arrow skills always leave colourful lines as they whiz by. I generally don't like the DH aesthetically. I guess once they decided on glowing eyes they couldn't help themselves.

The Barbarian also suffers from the same syndrome but at least his skills tend be less flashy, so I like him aesthetically.

The Wizard's skills may be the flashiest but it's kind of expected in this case. Not bad.

The monk has a spiritual thing going on to explain his effects, but the combo system means they're flashier than the barb's. Still not bad though.

Finally the Witch Doctor. His concept is possibly the most unique and I really like that. He also has some cool unique effects like firebomb. Some effects are comical, especially the toads, and hex. I can only conclude that it was meant to be that way, and the concept art was only one aspect of his character. Another aspect is he likes to let loose once in a while and turn demons into chickens.

At least on the Beta, the WD feels the weakest to me. The Damage over time tick tick business means I can kill stuff using my Barb using JUST cleave way faster than anything the WD has. I just don't get it. And don't get me started on the Voodoo Cross Dresser I wind up with when I put a certain pair of magic paints on my WD. Hilarious.

At least on the Beta, the WD feels the weakest to me. The Damage over time tick tick business means I can kill stuff using my Barb using JUST cleave way faster than anything the WD has.

Well, duh captain obvious: Of course damage over time skills lose their appeal when anyting dies in a hit from everything else. Of course summons lose their appeal when anything does no noticeable damage. See where I'm getting at? This subkindergarden level of difficulty is what it is - which is, representative of nothing if not the basic controls and systems.

As for Azzure's op: Yes, I agree entirely. The first show of the WD had locusts and fear and mongrels, firebombs, etc - the sweetest part if you ask me.

Then, came plague of toads. That entirely killed it for me. What a joke. If you want to see the worse, look at the fire bat's channeling animation. B-A-R-F.