Multi-Boxing

[Naviaras]

Interesting...

The Thread on the Battle.net Forum on this subject was deleted.

See for yourself:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/search?q=Multi+Boxing

It does make one wonder...

[viledevil]

hopefully it is just to keep new people from thinking about it - as others have said I dont see how buying multiple copies of the game and using them is against the tos. I used to run 3 copies of d2 at a time and never had a problem. there is no modding or botting involved.

[Concupisco Quaestus]

As far as "multi-boxing" in the generic sense there is nothing they can do to stop it, provided a person has an account and computer for each character a single person could have 100 characters connected to Bnet at the same time without fear because as far as Blizzard is concerned you are still using the game by its intended design and Blizzard has no problem with people buying as many accounts as they want.

The question isn't really about whether or not multi-boxing will be allowed because multi-boxing in the "old-school" sense (aka 1 pc/account per character) isn't something they can (or would) stop... The question is about the software that enables someone to run multiple accounts on a single system while retaining the ability to control them all.

It's really a 3rd-party software debate, the multi-boxing will take place regardless, the debate heats up when people are forced to deal with the ambiguity of "3rd party software" and start trying to define what is acceptable and what is not.

Some 3rd party software is mandatory for any game, the operating system, drivers and system bios are all 3rd party software, heck even UI mods and the likes are third party software so obviously there has never been the zero-tolerance policy to third party software that people thinks there is, the term is used as a catch-all, it's a "ban for any reason" clause.

I have a feeling that people can post until their fingers bleed, Blizzard isn't going to back down on the third party debate before launch or even consider it within the first year, they have their hands full as it is without having to worry about managing who is using their software the "O.k." way and who isn't because that's ultimately what it turns into for them.

Multi-boxing will happen eventually and if the demand for it is high enough I could even see Blizzard implementing an internal multi-box system for people to use but considering the scope of the endeavor as it is I think they just want to reduce the amount of "fluff" like stuff that requires a fairly high degree of monitoring... I don't think they are "against" the multi-boxers in any way, I think they're just against the added workload.

[Naviaras]

Call me naive...
I've just read up on how to Hardware Multi-Box...
CQ you are right nothing in the EULA/TOS would address a pure hardware setup. The only issue would be IP addresses but that is also easily worked around.

I guess this ruins Online gaming for me. I used to believe that all it took to get ahead was time. Good Hardware, while nice, wasn't necessary. I bemoaned that I couldn't keep up with the ProGamers/Kids that can devote all their time to a game, but could live with that. How they choose to use their time is their own business. But now, just having money can give you a huge edge in gaming. If you can afford the Hardware cost and buy multiple copies of the game, you are only limited by how many players one game allows.

Knowing this and how prevalent Multi-Boxing has become in WoW forces me out of the market. While I may list from time to time, knowing that the Pros are out producing me for the same amount of time just saps my spirit.

While I know more suppliers helps to stabilize a economy, as long as their is enough demand, the image of being on a fair playing field, even if it was only in a game, is gone.

It seams like the Gold Rule, "He who as the money, makes the rules.", has invaded my sanctuary from the real world.

I now leave you a dishearten player...

[Concupisco Quaestus]

There is no need to over-react, have you had fun playing games the past 15 years? Because people have always multi-boxed, hardware has always granted a certain degree of advantage and people have always been buying and selling items and finding ways to "power farm"... This game changes nothing, every single thing that will go on in D3 has gone on in pretty much every multi-player game that has ever been release, even in the first person shooters where there is no currency you still have people manipulating the games via "hardware advantage".

People need to step back a minute and take a little time to detach the emotional investments they have tied so tightly to delusion... A nice luxury we have as human beings is the ability to pick and choose the things that bother us, or we can choose to not let anything bother us... This game is still going to have 100's of hours of fun for absolutely everyone, regardless of whatever "disadvantage" they may feel they have or their willingness to participate in RMT.

Your sanctuary is all in your head, if anyone invades it's only because you let them in... He who has the money has always had the power and made the rules, this has always been the case in absolutely anything that has an economy... If you can live with "power-gamers" you can live with this, the only difference is some phantasmal condition you have imposed on your perception of the situation.

Give it all a chance before slapping a "Do not want!" label on it... Otherwise your just doing yourself a disservice.

[Naviaras]

DIII will still be a quality game worth my time, but I was also hoping the AH would be as fun as the game. But, now that I know that it will be have just like Wall Street, that cesspool, I have no desire to play that game. The greedy Sharks who have the money will get ahead and everyone else will be the fish. I guess it just human nature that people will seek to get an advantage over another, especially if limited resources are involve. Yes the items are infinite, but I don't believe the money flowing into the game is.

I'll still play, but all the replay value has been sucked out of me. So once I've completed the game with the 5 class I'll drop off until new content is added. Well I guess their is always hardcore if I want a change. With the millions of people who play, I might even find a group I trust.

[Azzure]

Fyi, multibox farming isn't super effective. Remember, loot drops for each player and is only visible for each player. This means that the Multiboxer needs to sit there and switch boxes each time he kills a few monsters.

Drastically inefficient! While they MIGHT be able to design a program that picks up loot automatically, that will be a mod/third party app therefore can be banned.

Secondly, multiboxing costs $60 per box plus leveling time. Not that expensive, but it will take a good load of farming to make up a single box.

Thirdly, multiboxing is frustrating, tedious and at times less efficient than single-boxing. You need to have them in full sync, if one dies you're screwed, if a monster blocks one it throws off the sync movements (which will happen virtually every minute).

[Concupisco Quaestus]

If it makes you feel any better it won't be like Wall Street, they will be watching it and making sure that people are participating "fairly" (don't read too much into the word "Fair", this is still finance), kind of goes back to the socialist thing in the other thread but I'm not opening hat can of worms again... Rest assured that no matter what someone else is doing to get an advantage it won't hinder your own ability to sell... Especially in this game where those of us with "hardware" are a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of regular players who will be participating in the system as well and considering the instanced game play you'll likely never even have to see a multi-boxer if you don't want to.

The disdain you and many others feel for Wall Street is not invalid, nor is it unnoticed... While the AH is going to be faster and more aggressive than a more traditional AH it is still under moderation, you have to consider that Blizzard WANT people to find the AH as fun as the game, their entire profit model depends on it... You'll get hooked into it just like the rest of us, just give it a chance... Keep in mind that this whole website is people like me helping people like you... You're not alone, we're all in this together and I'm gonna do whatever I can to help everyone that's on this site. :thumbup:

I'm personally setting aside my RMT farmer hat and replacing it with my RMT advocate hat, while I will obviously be doing my own thing I'm not in this for my own gain... Not this game anyways... I'm in this to hopefully get the doors blown off the RMT industry so people all around the world regardless of status can make a couple extra bucks when they need it... With the way the world is going that is more important to me than milking this for all it's worth so don't worry, have faith, you will have everything you need to "compete" and more.


Oh and in reply to Azzure's post, yeah, efficient multi-boxing without 3rd party software is FAR from easy, it can be done but its definitely not something that is as accessible to the masses as using "software" is.

[Naviaras]

Blizzard handed you a re-syncing tool. The movement skills: Teleport, Leap, Tumble, Dash & Spirit Walk. All of those skill will move the character where the cursor is. The only pain I see would be to Re-sync a character that died. But that is also very doable since skill can be cast in town.
As for picking up items, that is simple as long as you have screens for each character. You just look at the right screen move pick up item off that screen, then use a movement skill if you need to re-sync afterwards.
I'm sure CQ can think of hundreds of more thing he could do, even without software.

This coming from a complete noob to Multiboxing.

The fact that multiboxers are few in number right now, doesn't mean that they won't grow in numbers once it is found out. Hell, I'm half tempted by the idea and I'm an idealist.

Remember how I said, that the RMAH is all about consumer confidence. My confidence is shattered and I can only imagine what would happen when the millions of casual players find out. All that it would take for that to happen is for one MultiBoxer to make a killing in the market and the media find out. CQ you may not be out to skin the game, but I'll bet your $$$ that someone is.

[Concupisco Quaestus]

Blizzard themselves want the casual players in this system, an elitist playground AH would get squashed/revamped fast. Sure there will be people trying to "Grab it all" but that goes against the entire model that Blizzard is trying to build, rest assured if things get bad for the gamer who doesn't really want to engage in trade-floor finance they will do something to fix it... Blizzard doesn't "want" guys like me making money, they know we will regardless, what they "want" are guys like you making money, they make their end off the volume of participation.

It's true that someone with "resources" can do a lot of things the average person can't but Blizzard already knows this and they are making this game for you, not me... I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Azzure]

Remember how I said, that the RMAH is all about consumer confidence. My confidence is shattered and I can only imagine what would happen when the millions of casual players find out. All that it would take for that to happen is for one MultiBoxer to make a killing in the market and the media find out. CQ you may not be out to skin the game, but I'll bet your $$$ that someone is.

On an unrelated note, it's going to be very cool when we have our stats up and running so we can see plunges/rally's in real time. This will be something that we have never seen before in a game and it's going to be awesome.

I can just imagine it now, news headline on the main page: "Awesome New Crafting Recipe sends the price of Mystic Essence soaring 40%!"

[jwfcp]

Blizzard handed you a re-syncing tool. The movement skills: Teleport, Leap, Tumble, Dash & Spirit Walk. All of those skill will move the character where the cursor is.

Once the char is de-synched, the mouse will be on a different place on the screen; gonna need to smoosh straight into a wall until everyone catches up. I think monks will be the most popular for this: the healing, the stacking of aura's, the ability to just take it to the face for a bit. Too much effort to be bothered with though, friends are funner and smarter.

[droppin]

You mean wd will be the most popular :P, 1900 dogs ,4 armies, and 4 totems....gg. Doesn't matter how many multiboxer toons they have, if you find the Windforce first :devil:.

[ADJMan]

Doesn't matter how many multiboxer toons they have, if you find the Windforce first :devil:.

You are correct sir, this is what really matters.

[jamesL]

you'll probably do much better having 2 good, dependable teammates, than multiboxing with 3 accounts

[viledevil]

define better. more controlled accounts = more loot. the whole point of this is to get more loot per hour played and i believe that while it wont be fully efficient to run multiples it is better than just one.

[jamesL]

better = more loot per hour

you'll probably get more loot per hour having 2 good, dependable teammates, than multiboxing with 3 accounts

3 separate players with voice chat searching routes, smashing barrels, killing monsters, getting loot, crafting, sharing materials, recipes, and items

[viledevil]

I just dont agree that my 1/3 of the loot in your situation is more than 3/3 while multiboxing.

will 3 players get more loot total? sure, but i only get to keep my share.

[HardRock]

I just dont agree that my 1/3 of the loot in your situation is more than 3/3 while multiboxing.

I've only seen one multiboxing video so far, but it looks really hard to sync up your characters (and you lose time by doing this), since monsters can push you around.

Multiboxing will probably also require heavy use of pets (limited class and build options), which may not always be optimal for your killing speed or it may be flat out impossible in certain areas.

Looking at loot, the question really is, if a party of 4 for example will be able to kill things 4 times as fast as a multiboxer. Good teamwork and greater build flexibility should make this possible I think, although not in the beta. It depends on how hard the game will be and how varied the monsters will be, and we just don't know that.

[viledevil]

I've only seen one multiboxing video so far, but it looks really hard to sync up your characters (and you lose time by doing this), since monsters can push you around.

i've dual'd already in the beta and it is much more effective than just one account. running 2 chars each on an individual mouse is relatively easy. i've also run 2 as multis (ie with the same inputs) which is harder but its not that hard to keep them together and its also a learned skill.



Multiboxing will probably also require heavy use of pets (limited class and build options), which may not always be optimal for your killing speed or it may be flat out impossible in certain areas.

we dont know how viable pets will be late game nor can you really say that it will be required to use pets to effectively run more than one toon. killing speed will not be optimal, the question is how much more loot you get than running just one toon. and ya i'd say certain areas it wouldnt be very effective, fortunately we dont have to play those areas :)




Looking at loot, the question really is, if a party of 4 for example will be able to kill things 4 times as fast as a multiboxer. Good teamwork and greater build flexibility should make this possible I think, although not in the beta. It depends on how hard the game will be and how varied the monsters will be, and we just don't know that.

even if a party could kill 4 times as fast as a mb (which i doubt) you require 3 other humans which could limit your playing time also. i cede that you'd kill slower mb than playing with 3 other ppl, but if you kill half as fast mb then you are still getting twice the loot per hour played. by fine tuning your skills as well as intelligently selecting what areas of the game you play your kill rate (and loot per hour) will increase as well.

[viledevil]

Bliz touched a mb thread, hopefully the chatter brings a more full response about what is allowed.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4427538467?page=1

[HardRock]

I just skimmed over the new EULA, but I didn't find anything that would prohibit multiboxing. As a company, Blizzard is obviously OK with it, since they allow it WoW. I don't see any reason why they would need to change their stance for D3.

[Enlil]

Multi boxing will get you banned, blizz can't allow it as it will destory the market due to multi boxers flooding the market.
Wow does not have real money linked to it "apart from 3rd party sites" D3 is very different.

[HardRock]

Multi boxing will get you banned

Unless you can find something in the EULA that prohibits it, it won't get you banned.


blizz can't allow it as it will destory the market due to multi boxers flooding the market.

How could a 4 player multiboxer flood the market any more than 4 players playing in a party? The same number of items would drop in both cases. The difference is that in the case of the multiboxer he would get all of them. I don't see how that could affect the market though. Even if it would, there won't be that many multiboxers out there to really make a difference anyway.

[Enlil]

Unless you can find something in the EULA that prohibits it, it won't get you banned.



How could a 4 player multiboxer flood the market any more than 4 players playing in a party? The same number of items would drop in both cases. The difference is that in the case of the multiboxer he would get all of them. I don't see how that could affect the market though. Even if it would, there won't be that many multiboxers out there to really make a difference anyway.

Because one person would be getting 4x the drops of a regular player, if thousands of people are multi boxing there will be a huge price drop on items in the market, as the market will not be a true reflection of the player base.

Don't be so navie about there not being many multi boxers, now real money is involved people will do what ever it takes to boost there income. It does not take much techinal knowledge or much gear to start multi boxing. If it is allowed everyone who can do it will multi box to boost there real money income.


We need an offical blue post in regard to this subject, blizz have not given a clear yes or no on this subject.

Its supposed to be explained here:
http://blues.incgamers.com/Posts/10/1/40/819/158697/any-words-for-multiboxing-yet#postId_426399

But this blue post says nothing about it, neither is it mentioned in the agreement from what I've read.
We need a straight awnser to this question.

Blizzard do what they like in regard to these matters, if they want to ban you or delete items there is nothing you can do about it.
Unless we get a straight awnser I'm sure threads will appear about people getting banned due to multi boxing.

[HardRock]

neither is it mentioned in the agreement from what I've read.

Exactly. Despite that the EULA have parts that deal with third-party applications there's nothing that would prohibit you from multiboxing. Blizzard obviously thought about limiting the use of third-party programs. Multiboxing is a well known thing, so it's very unlikely that they forgot about it. It's much more likely that they condone it, just like they did in the past.

[Enlil]

Exactly. Despite that the EULA has parts that deal with third-party applications there's nothing that would prohibit you from multiboxing. Blizzard obviously thought about limiting the use of third-party programs. Multiboxing is a well known thing, so it's very unlikely that they forgot about it. It's much more likely that they condone it, just like they did in the past.

As you sould know, multi boxing does not require "software/third party programs" to work. There are various bits of hardware that will do the same thing and are undetectable as they do not require software to run on the same machine as the game is running.

[viledevil]

bliz entering a mb thread and saying nothing of value is irritating but my hope is that now that the can is opened they will add more specifics as to what is allowed in D3. with regards to the EULA the question becomes what does bliz mean by authorized 3rd party program and automation.

enil, i kindly ask that you read the thread rather than just jumping in and reposting the same link or redundant/incorrect information.

[HardRock]

There are various bits of hardware that will do the same thing and are undetectable.

If they are indeed undetectable, then you won't get banned for using them.

[viledevil]

the problem is they are not undetectable, and hardware solutions are more expensive than software.

[Enlil]

the problem is they are not undetectable, and hardware solutions are more expensive than software.

True they are a lot more expensive, but there is ways to make it undetectable "if you know what you doing" ; )
Its all just to much hassle even if multi boxing is allowed, I'll stick to my one machine !

[viledevil]

True they are a lot more expensive, but there is ways to make it undetectable "if you know what you doing" ; )
Its all just to much hassle even if multi boxing is allowed, I'll stick to my one machine !

adding in random delays to mask that you're using macros will complicate if not confuse things. adding in a random delay to a keystroke as its passed through to the other cpus will complicate theorycrafting as well as combat and how you'd mask 4 players all moving to the same pixel i do not know.

what did you have in mind?

[viledevil]

Also Enil; pardon me but i didn't realize that this is a necro'd thread and not the one i started more recently. check out this thread to see the more recent discussion on mb.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?821904-the-multiboxing-thread

[mickptd]

My 2 cents

1) It seems for me (not sure) that items/gold are dropped into different places for different players. That will make it harder but just in terms of items as gold is collected automatically. For items (sort and pick up them) you need some kind of software.
2) There is a common situation when players in the party are getting different amount of items from the mob/chest/whatever. You need to click it manually again...or you need a software
3) Drop rate from the bosses (well, we saw only one but still something) is NOT that higher than drop from the champions. That seems reasonable to run for meph/baal/pindel/etc but who knows if we have "nice drop" bosses in d3.
4) If we have bosses with the nice drop rate - how far these bosses will be located from the start of event?. In D2 we had waypoints, now we have quests...
5) Possible solution: we know that the first boss kill gives you a nice loot. It's rare for act1 normal but who knows what could be dropped at hell? If leveling will be fast enough, I create "sets" of items with the "highest possible %MF" for each boss kill. I rush throug the mobs and don't care about the loot. I use MF gear before boss, kill it, loot each PC manually, wearing "tanking" gear (if necessary) and rush to the next boss
6) Possible problem: even first act 1 boss have some battle phases. It's possible that higher level bosses will be more tricky. It's also possible you won't be able to pass through some bosses if you don't have a tank or some specific class mix within your team or few people using healing potions as fast as they can. Can you imagine 25x multiboxer raiding in WoW? I'm not:) That could be similar here, especially for inferno.

[Azzure]

Slight divergence from the subject but does anyone know a method to run 2 D3 clients on the same PC simultaneously?

[Amarules]

Slight divergence from the subject but does anyone know a method to run 2 D3 clients on the same PC simultaneously?

Possibly yes using software (either Virtual Machine or Sandboxie). There are guides existing for how to do this with other games such as D2/SC2.

I cant confirm this works for D3 but its likely yoyr best shot.

[PearlOrion]

Possibly yes using software (either Virtual Machine or Sandboxie). There are guides existing for how to do this with other games such as D2/SC2.

I cant confirm this works for D3 but its likely yoyr best shot.

Stick with Vmware. However, the recent versions of Vmware with its emulated 3D graphics card driver gave me either black screen on newer games like swtor or text-less screens on WoW.
It's just trial and error to make things work.

If you're multiboxing, I don't think Vmware is that suitable by itself.

PS: Let me try to PM you on a untested suggestion.