View Full Version : Theory crafting: who's the best PvP character?
yovargas
25-09-2011, 15:09
Just thought it'd be fun to throw around ideas about who you think the best PvP character will be and why. My thoughts:
I know that the Demon Hunter isn't very popular right now but my vote for best PvP potencial goes to this class. My reasoning is that with Strafe, Evasive Fire, and Vault, the class has the best set of mobility skills in the game with all three skills allowing her to move+attack, letting her continually stay away without letting up on the damage. That, plus Obsidian Impale which currently has one of the biggest damage boosters in the game doing a massive +600% weapon damage. Considering that it's an extremely fast ranged attack, it looks like it might be the most powerful single target attack in the game as long as you can keep up the hatred.
Here's my attempt at a PvP DH build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aReYQU!YWU!cbZaab
My second that would be on the Monk. The main reason is that Dashing Strike might be the scariest mobility skill and the game. The only problem is that once the monks in your face, the class doesn't have any truly scary attacks it can unleash on you (the class needs better offensive Spirit skills, damn it!) compared to the other classes. But the lack of a powerhouse offense looks like it is more than offset by the monks wide arrange of healing and defensive skills. The class frankly looks pretty damn hard to kill!
Here's my attempt at a PvP Monk build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#dieXjR!eYV!bZZcZb
What are your thoughts on how PvP might play out? :)
Not sure if this is the best "PvP" concept, but I fully expect something along these lines to be the top tier duelist.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fZdebX!bgY!bZaabY
Stunlock, counter to enemy stunlock via Ignore Pain, and a counter to enemy "Ignore Pain + Counter" type strategies via stacking debuffs until their Stun counter expires and you go back to business. This type of build, for example, should simply auto-beat a glass cannon style build in your DH - once Leap Attack lands, you have no counter-play but to sit there and watch your character die. I do think it is rather weak in team format, though, because it is only a single gap closer and no way to heal mid-fight.
Incidentally, that is my problem with your DH build - unless Shadow Power is a stun breaker, its auto-dead against a gap close ---> stun. Evasive Fire is only good if you get the opportunity to cast it. It feels like you need Vault or Smoke Screen or Preparation in there (I think these three skills are the top candidates for Blizzard giving the DH the stun breaker).
The Monk build feels FAR more solid - you have two stun counters, a spammable gap closer, heals, and DPS. I would expect something like that to be a staple in team fights, though it looks like it will lose to burst damage builds. Heals + Debuffs sound like a great attrition fighter, but if you get killed between Breath of Heavens (and you will, you have no defensive buffs there at all), well, shucks.
Barb imo.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bgkdjT!hbc!YabZZZ
Tons of mobility skills: furious charge, leap attack, sprint. Sprint is especially incredible when properly runed.
War cry: +100% armor, +50% life, +tons of hp regen.
Threatening shout: 25 yard aoe slow that reduces enemy damage by 50%. IMO one of the top pvp skills out there.
WW should be well more than enough dps to kill someone faster than they kill you face to face, especially when you're buffed and they're debuffed.
So basically war cry to buff, then furious charge and leap attack to get somewhat close, threaten shout to snare, sprint to catch up to them, and WW to take them out.
No hard cc, which sucks, but your snare is pretty powerful.
Edit: Konfeta, I dont think you can count on leap attack landing. You jump, they run, and they kite you for the next 10 seconds while you wait for another leap. That said, my build is strongly focused on chasing down and snaring runners. I'd clearly lose to your build head to head.
Sure I can. Have you seen how fast leap attack is? It's basically teleport speed.
Personally, I have doubts that Whirlwind should be your "to go" skill for taking out a single target. At its core, it is an AoE move and it isn't a very fast fury dump. Look at the math - it doesn't have an any advantage over regular attack in terms of DPS.
Overall, it feels like your Barb build is for hunting down Vault/Evasive Fire spamming Demonhunters. Not much DPS, no way to counter burst damage. Perhaps Throw Weapon? Would fit with the ranged hunter theme.
I made this Witch Doctor build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#RkcUde!WUd!YYZaZc
Not sure how it'll stack up against any other class at all, but it may provide decent control and if played right it could be lots of fun. Hopefully it'll give you enough mana/health regen that you can keep going for quite some time, granted you get those control spells off in a timely manner.
Edit: This build is planned as a hide and seek build, dodging behind pillars, forcing the opponent to blow his/her cooldowns to get to you while slowly eating away at his/her health. Should they get too close there's a few options, and you are very likely to get away so you can start over. Not much burst, but if played properly it doesn't look like it will need it.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#eWdjbg!hgc!YZaZYa
A bit of a mix of both builds. Gave up furious charge for ground stomp, frenzy for war cry, and WW for weapon throw, which does more dmg than hammer, has its own snare, and has longer range. Both are best for enemies that are nearby and stunned, but imo WT slightly wins out.
No huge fury generators, but no huge fury dumps either.
yovargas
25-09-2011, 16:16
The Stun-happy Barb build is definitely the most worrisome thing for my DH build. Your Barb is certainly terrifying! Like you said, how the stun-breaks will work could change everything. If Smoke Screen does break stuns, I probably would feel forced to go there but I'm hoping for more options than that as I'm not a big fan of that skill.
Kvothe - I agree with konfeta on WW, I don't think it'll be a top-tier PvP player.
In general, I feel the WD is hardest to theorycraft with because there's too many unknowns on how Hex, Horrify, and Confuse will work in PvP. Plus he's the least mobile by far, a fair trade-off to having the tanky pets, IMO, but can the class pull it off without the tanks. In PvP, I'm suspecting not. Also he simply seems to have the most dramatic runes so it feels like we've seen the least of what he really has available.
Yeah, seems like a refinement of the Demon Hunter Hunter. Should lose horrifically to dedicated sluggers and any form of stunlock, and you will be constantly fury starved.
Its easy to see why the reduction to 6 skill limit is going to be good for PvP. Its very simple to find a hole in any build that makes it vulnerable to a class of builds. Lack of healing makes you vulnerable to brawler style builds. Lack of defensive skills makes you food to burst damage. Lack of gap closers makes you food to kiting. Etc.
@Y
Whirlwind with Obsidian actually looks useful. It is strictly inferior to Crimson Sprint for running fast, but the "attack while running" might prove to be a useful trait with slower weapons. Depending on how weapon ranges work out, it might also have kiting utility.
@Perplex
Seems more like a support build. Though, I am not sure as to whenever Wall of Zombies and Acid Cloud will be very useful in PvP. I would replace one of them with Grasp of the Dead, and the other with Locust Swarm or Big Bad Vodoo. Better support/harassment that way. Harass the enemies with DoTs/Slows, tip fights Hex/Horrify CC, Spirit Walk away when the enemy rage-chases you. The question would be, do you value higher damage or a major support skill.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#TkcYdb!cXf!YYZZbY
My attempt at a WD pvp build. Each skill is a mix of offensive and defensive benefits and are therefor multifunctional. For example, a barbarian attacking you is being attacked by your four dogs, who are taking 70% of your damage. You can sacrifice your dogs for 800% weapon damage and a full heal for you.
In general, I feel the WD is hardest to theorycraft with because there's too many unknowns on how Hex, Horrify, and Confuse will work in PvP.
Yeah, in that particular build I made I don't expect Horrify to last for 12 seconds, but any increase to it's time might be valuable time and an opportunity to drain more health/regen more life/mana. Bit tricky, as you say, to know how things will work in PvP, but with the information the skill calculator provides as of now, I found the choice of skills to be interesting.
@Perplex
Seems more like a support build. Though, I am not sure as to whenever Wall of Zombies and Acid Cloud will be very useful in PvP. I would replace one of them with Grasp of the Dead, and the other with Locust Swarm or Big Bad Vodoo. Better support/harassment that way. Harass the enemies with DoTs/Slows, tip fights Hex/Horrify CC, Spirit Walk away when the enemy rage-chases you. The question would be, do you value higher damage or a major support skill.
Wall of Zombies is mostly there to annoy and force a Leap/Teleport/Whatever, and if they don't, you'll punish them bigtime with Acid Cloud. At least that's the thought. Since with Pierce the Veil and the additional pacifism and damage bonus from Hex, that Acid Cloud can be rather mean. I didn't really consider making either a team build or a duelling build, but I suppose it can work as both, especially with some of the tweaks you mentioned. The reason I didn't take Grasp of the Dead is because from what I've seen in videos so far, it doesn't seem like it's very wide, so it won't necessarily force the opposition to do anything unusual.
yovargas
25-09-2011, 16:28
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#TkcYdb!cXf!YYZZbY
My attempt at a WD pvp build. Each skill is a mix of offensive and defensive benefits and are therefor multifunctional. For example, a barbarian attacking you is being attacked by your four dogs, who are taking 70% of your damage. You can sacrifice your dogs for 800% weapon damage and a full heal for you.
An interesting build but I'm skeptical of ZW's use in PvP, at least as having any offensive use. No one will get close to it! I'm also very curious if Hex will work in PvP - it'd be crazy if it did!!!
Here's my pet-heavy WD build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bhRgYa!YXb!aZZZbZ
Looove that Gargantuan rune! :D
My attempt at a WD pvp build. Each skill is a mix of offensive and defensive benefits and are therefor multifunctional. For example, a barbarian attacking you is being attacked by your four dogs, who are taking 70% of your damage. You can sacrifice your dogs for 800% weapon damage and a full heal for you.
Looks like a raw mix of pure tank/damage, but you literally have no mana restoration what-so-ever. You will run dry very fast. I would wager it would actually be more beneficial for the enemy team to leave you alive instead of killing you and restoring your mana to full.
I would 100% dump Wall of Zombies and get something that either makes you a better suicide bomber or give you some actual staying power. Soul Harvest or Spirit Barrage with Golden rune look like good candidates.
I extend the same criticism on yovgaras build. 2% mana per second sound like a long term, quality of life PvE thing. Plus, Acid Cloud + Dart seem redundant. Gruesome Feast seems completely out of place - it is either a PvE skill or a "my Zombie dawgs drop Health Orbs like candy" skill.
yovargas
25-09-2011, 20:12
Spiritual Att. was more for the +20% max mana than the extra regen and I feel comfortable with it. I got Gruesome Feast cuz frankly the WD's passives options are pretty weak and I didn't see anything else...but looking again, Death Trance seems quite solid...I'll def swap that. A fair point about Acid Cloud + Dart. I wanted a 2nd attack but I don't really need it. Alabaster Spirit Walk would probably be of more use. Here's the remake:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bhRgYU!fXb!aZZZba
ETA: Giant Toad is another of the WD's big PvP question marks! :p
A giant toad build would be pure awesome, but I have some doubts when it comes to pets in PvP. They just seem too unreliable, since there's quite a few factors that can decide their effectiveness. You can't really control them, they might not path the way you want them to, etc etc. Not to say that it won't work, it's just my thoughts on the matter until I get to try stuff out. :)
Death Trance looks like a solid option, granted the tooltip has a typo (should be reduce damage taken, or am I missing the obvious?).
yovargas
25-09-2011, 20:58
Death Trance looks like a solid option, granted the tooltip has a typo (should be reduce damage taken, or am I missing the obvious?).
LOL, it's not a typo, it's a passive for the truly hardcore amongst us. ;)
I'm not too worried about the pets, the AI on the mongrels looks really good. They definitely do their job of staying in the face of the bad guys which is what I'd count on them for.
You still have major mana issues. WD has 1.4k base mana at level 60, so 1,680 in your case.
Summoning Dogs and Gargantuan immediately cuts you down to 900. You are literally dry 2 Acid Bombs later, after which the most effectual thing you can do is cast Grasp of the Dead every time it is off cooldown and the occasional Acid Bomb every several seconds.
Amusingly enough, if you start spamming Phase Walk or Soul Harvest on top of it, you will qualify for the Vision Quest passive.
I feel like who's the best PVP character kind of depends on what your other team mates bring to the table. If it's going to be 4 v 4 or 3 v 3, that kind of changes things. There are some really nice support moves the monk has, and the WD has some great movement utility, something that would really help a barb. DPS wise as a stand alone, for now I will guess wizard until it get's nerfed :D
yovargas
25-09-2011, 21:40
Damn, you're right. I could switch Spirit Walk or Soul Harvest to +mana instead of +life, which would give me enough to pull this off. Not comfortable being without a heal but better than no mana.....
Having a real hard time coming up with a decent PvP Wiz concept - somehow I feel like I just don't get how to play the class - so I just went for a total glass cannon build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#OcehRj!dXf!baZZYc
I feel like who's the best PVP character kind of depends on what your other team mates bring to the table.
Well, that's team composition. We can theory craft all of that, but if 1 on 1 situations we can maybe theoretically get something correct out of the current incomplete information, team dynamics theory craft is basically something you should never engage in without empirical evidence. The complexity is just exponentially beyond.
@Yovargas
Arcane Orb sounds like it will be a bad order in PvP. The damage is very impressive, but its a very clumsy projectile.
yovargas
26-09-2011, 02:29
@Yovargas
Arcane Orb sounds like it will be a bad order in PvP. The damage is very impressive, but its a very clumsy projectile.
I agree, but I think it'll work for anyone who tries to get too close. I feel like that builds got it covered at a distance,so the Orb is for anyone in my face. Plus it might be nice against The Dogs.
I'm actually surprise by how much I'm not feeling the Wiz as a PvP player. Her 3 death lasers are the only thing making her look PvP competitive, IMO.
The Kiezer
26-09-2011, 02:34
DH.
Hungering Arrow = lol
yovargas
26-09-2011, 02:38
Golden Hungering Arrow = lmao ;)
I assume you're referring to the crazy multi-pierce thing it's got going right now on but I'd be very surprised if that wasn't removed by release.
I love theory crafting, so Ive been working on a few team support/defensive builds for pvp:
Here's a stun-lock Barb one, which is mainly built around controlling opponents for teammates to kill. Would probably be s/s for survival, or dual-wield for faster stun procs from Frenzy so not a lot of damage. Seismic could be swapped out for a more damaging skill to help on spikes. I chose Indigo in Ground Stomp as I've noticed a lot of misses in the arena videos due to the small range. Depending on what you're facing you could rune it for a snare and have Threatening Shout reduce attack speed instead.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#debfgS!gWc!aYYbac
Here's a WD build, built on CC, life leach and damage reduction. Would get Haunt up on three targets and spam Spirit Barrage on the Hexed kill target. Not sure how much damage this would do either, but seems like it would be very hard to kill.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#beUidc!VfX!YcaZaZ
And finally a Wizard build, focused on CC and strong defense, with a crimson Ray of Frost as its only offense:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#QjZVSi!eVf!YZbcbc
These may be overkill defensive but let me know what you think.
I agree, but I think it'll work for anyone who tries to get too close.
Shouldn't you nab Arcane Orbit then? More damage for shotgunning.
Wizard's PvP viability actually does feel awkward. No healing except for melee, overall mobility (unless Wormhole truly does chain) is only ahead of the WD, defense spells are mostly CC oriented, combos a bit tricky to set up. Surprisingly enough, the highest damage bursts for Wizards come seemingly come from point blank attacks.
Heh, for the lulz, what's the highest damage spike can one come up for a Wizard?
- Open with Black Ice Nova + Molten Impact Meteor = About 2,000% weapon damage for 60 AP.
- Open with Arcane Torrent 1 second pulse (20AP), follow up with 2x Arcane Orbit (70 AP), follow up with Alabaster Archon (25 AP) = 6,512% for 115 AP. Hm, I think arcane resist gear load outs are going to be very popular.
And to put the theory into practice: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#akegVi!bfd!aZcbcb
Gameplan - plink enemies with Magic Missile and Arcane Torrent. When opportunity arises, active Arcane Orbit, ping target with Arcane Torrent for the debuff, and teleport right in their face.
The teleporting maneuver on a disrupted target is instantaneous 2,376% Arcane Damage + whatever you got out of pulsing the target with Arcane Torrent. If you can squeeze in a second Arcane Orbit before they run off out, this number jumps to a sexy 4,752%. Then rebound out of there.
Yeah, there is no way Disruption is staying as is... This is basically the Mailman incarnate. Appropriate, risky, fun, but I feel sorry anyone on the receiving end of this. And if the Wormhole rune actually does allow chaining of teleportation, adjusting the build to dramatically increase spellcasting capacity will make you a mad chain-bomber.
yovargas
26-09-2011, 16:18
Shouldn't you nab Arcane Orbit then? More damage for shotgunning.
Depends on how close "when they get close" is!
Glad I'm not alone in feeling the Wiz is a bit awkward PvP. She's superficially the obvious choice so I kinda felt like I was doing something wrong in not finding something that PvP-solid.
Nevermind, you are back to being alone. Teleporting delivery of a self-detonating Wizard is my prediction for the mainstream Wizard PvP strategy.
Demon Hunter seems to have the monopoly on the classic Sorceress gameplay with this basic chassis of a build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bad!!bYb
Wizard feels awkward because in the attempt to create a classic glass cannon and the battle mage, Blizzard designed an unholy hybrid of the two.
DH
set = unlimited vault, NO CD, it is literally the sorc TP in D2, way better than wizard teleporting.
HA = no need to aim, just focus on vault micro control.
Dam? Golden HA highest ever.
For a Wizard, not having Ice Armor with Indigo runestone sounds, to me, like complete madness. Also, Galvanizing Ward passive seems far too valuable to pass on. I agree with Konfeta regarding Teleport with a Golden runestone.
And I think Wizards will be brilliant for PvP. Because they can slow so much with either Frost or Arcane damage. What they lack in life regen they should by far make up for in "thou shalt not hit me!"-factor. ;)
And to stay on topic and suggest a build, I made this. I'm not sure how Meteor will be, but with "double" teleport, you might actually be able to trick people right into your heavy hitting, freezing and chilling Meteor. Also, Electrocute's runestone can be changed, depending on Arcane Power regen. So, tickle with Electrocute, freeze with Ray, tickle some more, steadily build up those Flashes of Insight through Arcane Dynamo passive, then get ready for Meteor.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#djPbVi!ceU!bZcYcb
I am actually skeptical about the obvious DH combo - I think Monks will counter it very, very hard with dodge stacking and Dashing Strike.
And I think Wizards will be brilliant for PvP. Because they can slow so much with either Frost or Arcane damage. What they lack in life regen they should by far make up for in "thou shalt not hit me!"-factor.
The issue here with the "thou shalt not hit me!"-factor is that... Barbarians and Monks will hit you, and will hit you very hard. Their gap closing skills are significantly more efficient than Teleport.
As for standing there and Crimson Ray of Frosting people, I have strong doubts about it. WD and DH have the advantage of having indirect attacks to hit you while hiding behind cover.
Yes, you will take damage, but you also have the possibility to fully absorb that damage, or at least some of it. The disadvantage of hiding WD's and DH's can, maybe, be completely negated with the advantage of having a much higher burst potential, since they will have to get out of cover to do some damage. I imagine Wizards will be quite cruel when they hit.
Also, if anyone plays the cover-game versus a Hydra or Meteor Wizard, there's some potential for mean punishment as well. Regarding gap closers it remains to be seen, but since three out of the six spells in this Wizards arsenal have slowing potential, staying on the Wizard can provide quite a challenge.
Anyhow, just wanted to argue about Wizards not being so awkward in PvP as presumed.
And as a side note, after toying around with some builds and the skill calculator in general, I think we'll see some very creative builds for all classes in PvP for sure.
Here's a WD build, built on CC, life leach and damage reduction. Would get Haunt up on three targets and spam Spirit Barrage on the Hexed kill target. Not sure how much damage this would do either, but seems like it would be very hard to kill.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#beUidc!VfX!YcaZaZ
I had a similar WD build (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bTUciY!XWd!YaacZZ) in mind.
Dogs and Sacrifice combo gives both great survivability and the build's highest burst damage, whereas Haunt and Grasp should keep your opponents slowed for most of the time and pose a consistent DoT threats as well. Spirit Barrage and Walk heal, but one is offensive and the other evasive. Mana worries are nonexistent with the spirit package and Rush of Essence.
With access to DoT, burst, heal and slow spells with a couple of options for each, this seems like a good all-round build. DoT and heal win hide-and-seek games, and Sacrifice is a huge threat against close combat attackers. Opposing CC would probably be the biggest threat for this guy, so keeping out of its way in a timely fashion should be very important.
HardRock
26-09-2011, 18:08
Teleporting delivery of a self-detonating Wizard is my prediction for the mainstream Wizard PvP strategy.
I was thinking about a build like that, but for PvE and this is what I came up with:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#dSliTc!Ydf!bZYbcZ
With more defensive skills it may be a good novelty build for PvP, but I think staying away and shooting stuff is still your best bet against other players as a Wizard.
set = unlimited vault
You mean the 1380 Discipline regen / minute set bonus? I can guarantee you that it's a typo. Still, Vault looks very promising for a PvP environment.
For a Wizard, not having Ice Armor with Indigo runestone sounds, to me, like complete madness.
Ice Reflect looks better to me. It may have only a 55% chance of procing, but when it does your attacker will freeze for 4 seconds. Then it's time to bring on the Meteor shower! :)
For PvP, Energy Armor's Force Armor effect also looks amazing. By reducing all damage done to 26% of your max life at the most it may greatly reduce your enemies' burst damage potential, which will come in handy if the damage numbers I expect to see from fully decked out end-game characters will turn out to be true.
Also, Galvanizing Ward passive seems far too valuable to pass on.
It looks pretty weak to me. The duration bonus is not very beneficial in PvP, and the life regen is really small. I fully expect that PvP characters will have around 20-25k life, especially if you consider party buffs, so I think that 160 life / sec won't make a difference and needs a serious buff for me to consider it useful.
What would be interesting though is if they would change Galvanizing Ward's duration doubling effect to a cost halving one. That would create an interesting synergy with Ice Armor's Frozen Storm effect.
What seems like an absolute must have to me is the Illusionist + Teleport combo.
The Kiezer
26-09-2011, 18:18
Golden Hungering Arrow = lmao ;)
I assume you're referring to the crazy multi-pierce thing it's got going right now on but I'd be very surprised if that wasn't removed by release.
Righto. I honestly don't believe it's going to work nearly as well as all the DH theorycrafters think it will. They fixed this bug with Guided Arrow in Diablo II and there's just no way they'd let it happen again. I hope...
LowPolyGG
26-09-2011, 19:26
Too bad Blizzard is not supporting PvP nor it's balance, at current state, its whether which class is more "OP" in PvP. If anyone's up to fighting against a full team of wanabe best ladder-ers with fully decked out gear bought solely from the auction house for hundres of $$$, and guild-ed themselves "Paid-to-Win", be my guest. As long as PPL wana get slaughtered for no good reason, because now D3 is in the stage of "paid-for-success" with the RMAH, and since they clarified they are not supporting PvP, it's gonna be a hell hole of an arena, nothing but 3 shotting someone because someone else' wallet is biggah.
A lot of you enthusiasts posted here already, awsome PvP builds for varies classes, sweet to look at and study, but heh, what good will it do, even if you are more "skilled" and better talent spec-ed, it can be trased and copied off from the D3 Armory. Oh you may say thats not true becasue passives are not shown, well for there are wiki and guides, who can guarantee that there won't be a best and globalized build for PvP and PvE. Its inevitable and regrettable, there's just not gonna be any individuality and uniqueness amongst players in the end game. The better gear means AH Buyers will block that 1000 damage even with their slow reflex and reaction time being nub, the truth stands.
Too bad Blizzard is not supporting PvP nor it's balance, at current state, its whether which class is more "OP" in PvP. If anyone's up to fighting against a full team of wanabe best ladder-ers with fully decked out gear bought solely from the auction house for hundres of $$$, and guild-ed themselves "Paid-to-Win", be my guest. As long as PPL wana get slaughtered for no good reason, because now D3 is in the stage of "paid-for-success" with the RMAH, and since they clarified they are not supporting PvP, it's gonna be a hell hole of an arena, nothing but 3 shotting someone because someone else' wallet is biggah.
A lot of you enthusiasts posted here already, awsome PvP builds for varies classes, sweet to look at and study, but heh, what good will it do, even if you are more "skilled" and better talent spec-ed, it can be trased and copied off from the D3 Armory. Oh you may say thats not true becasue passives are not shown, well for there are wiki and guides, who can guarantee that there won't be a best and globalized build for PvP and PvE. Its inevitable and regrettable, there's just not gonna be any individuality and uniqueness amongst players in the end game. The better gear means AH Buyers will block that 1000 damage even with their slow reflex and reaction time being nub, the truth stands.
I completely see your point and its very valid. However, to bring in a point from WoW, people pay irl money sometimes for weapons/armour or arena rating boosting as it stands. Blizzard of course will make extra money from RMAH, they know this and their shareholders know this. BUT. If they don't do it, it can leave things far worse off. It won't make everything just great, sure, but at least it gives outlets for those who want to farm, those who want to pay for gear, those who want to craft and sell...etc.
LowPolyGG
26-09-2011, 19:53
WoW is a terrible example and has gone down hill since BC and straight to hell after WotLK i know most would rage seeing this but it's true. People pay money buying weapon and level and items from external sites, not from Blizzard themselves i believe, that's a loophole exploited,something Blizzard can't stop once it has begone. Only thing i remember "buying" from Blizzard for WoW (aside from the 15$ monthly fee, i dono why the f*ck Blizzard won't give us all the contents that anyone should have, equally) was some prestige mount. But like League of Legends, it's for utility, if not, fun, visual, purposes,nothing effecting immediate game balance.
WoW is a terrible example and has gone down hill since BC and straight to hell after WotLK i know most would rage seeing this but it's true. People pay money buying weapon and level and items from external sites, not from Blizzard themselves i believe, that's a loophole exploited,something Blizzard can't stop once it has begone. Only thing i remember "buying" from Blizzard for WoW (aside from the 15$ monthly fee, i dono why the f*ck Blizzard won't give us all the contents that anyone should have, equally) was some prestige mount. But like League of Legends, it's for utility, if not, fun, visual, purposes,nothing effecting immediate game balance.
So you would rather potentially feed real crime? The average gamer isnt that smart and it is very common for people to be keylogged and have accounts hacked. There has been serious cases of people having real fraud crimes performed on them because of things like this.
My point is, you put a legimate way of purchasing items from others and from Blizzard into a game, you can help cut unsupported trading and potentially help cut illegal activities by criminals. Of course like I said, its not the rainbow ending everyone wants and yes I agree a game where everyone has equal stuff would be awesome. But whats the difference from Bob spending $120 on the "axe of rip **** up" from the RMAH....or spending $120 to the friendly stranger on the interweb.....you will still fight Bob in the arenas pal but he will feel safer from using the RMAH. I know you want it to be different but people will always spend money on obtaining something better than the next person....not just in games. If you don't like this service being offered, don't use it. I am not smart enough to say I wont use it yet, because I may very end up doing so if I see something I really want (it's human nature)
LowPolyGG
26-09-2011, 20:09
I'm not here to argue the legitimacy of the RMAH, or if it's sh*t cr*p or not, that's been discussed on the web and on youtube for weeks, it can be in it's own thread for all i care. I'm stating my opinion to the point of this thread, which is that i believe PvP is not gonna be viable and as balanced fun with the option of paid-for-success looming about, no matter how much effort i spend on customizing and gearing my class for PvP, in the end it will all be thrashed by payers, so little point there to counter fun in a "game", after all.
HardRock
26-09-2011, 20:18
no matter how much effort i spend on customizing and gearing my class for PvP, in the end it will all be thrashed by payers
I disagree. Because of your limited skill set, your character build will always have holes in its defense, whatever you do, which will be exploited by good players. PvP experience cannot be bought.
I'm not here to argue the legitimacy of the RMAH, or if it's sh*t cr*p or not, that's been discussed on the web and on youtube for weeks, it can be in it's own thread for all i care. I'm stating my opinion to the point of this thread, which is that i believe PvP is not gonna be viable and as balanced fun with the option of paid-for-success looming about, no matter how much effort i spend on customizing and gearing my class for PvP, in the end it will all be thrashed by payers, so little point there to counter fun in a "game", after all.
Yeh ok, fair point, I went off topic. But surely what you really mean is, its a gear balance thing, not a "payers thing". Some pvpers might get lucky and find all of their gear???? Nobody can tell yet what effect real money will have on pvp balancing, you are making ridiculous assumptions based on no real information. The people contributing to this thread have skills/runes and numbers to justify their facts.
OT (because I feel I must now): In my opinion as with most pvp encounters in other games, mobility wins most encounters. The class with the most mobility at the moment is the Barbarian. That said, because you can only have 6 active skills, maybe the Demon Hunter could be the real dark horse. The class seems to have good control options, some good mobility and also it's a ranged class.
yovargas
26-09-2011, 21:11
Please keep the RMAH stuff out of this thread. Thanks...
One general observation that I have that I'm a little bit worried about is that there are lots and lots of slowing skills in this game. If those stick around and translate to the PvP game, is the arena gonna be filled with a bunch of slow motion gameplay??
HardRock
26-09-2011, 21:24
I'm a little bit worried about is that there are lots and lots of slowing skills in this game. If those stick around and translate to the PvP game, is the arena gonna be filled with a bunch of slow motion gameplay??
I share your feelings about CC skills. I like them when you have counters against them, because they make PvP more interesting, but I don't want them to become to too dominant either. My hope is that situational awareness in general and character positioning will be the deciding factor in PvP.
When thinking about skills with crowd control potential we should keep in mind, that their cooldown, duration and chance to proc will probably be changed for PvP as needed for game balance.
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