View Full Version : Your character being Stunned, Feared, and Charmed
Such Violent Storms
16-09-2011, 20:36
I wonder how these work?
Stunned is pretty simple actually, your character is just... stunned. Feared and charmed are more interesting; in D2, they just didn't effect you at all. So, if my charactr becomes Feared, does he just run away not under my control? Better yet, if my character becomes Charmed, does he start attacking my party members automagically? Do my skills suddenly have Friendly Fire turned on?
I personally don't like the idea of a battle-torn hero fleeing at the sight of a ghost, and I really don't like the idea of losing control of my character.
Andy2702
16-09-2011, 21:29
This is why people think some ideas were taken straight from WoW.
They shouldn't do this. Keep it simple, D2 style.
I wonder how these work?
.. So, if my charactr becomes Feared, does he just run away not under my control? ..
that's the way it works in Rift PvP, and its the dumbest most annoying thing ever
AlexanderBarin
16-09-2011, 21:55
that's the way it works in Rift PvP, and its the dumbest most annoying thing ever
Same as WoW, yeah, not very fun. Hopefully in D2, it just makes you stand still until you take dmg (then it dispells).
Fear will probably make you run away. This will add excitement and danger as you could potentially run into a group of enemies and have to fight more.
Charm is more unknown. Maybe it will work like confused in D2.
As for being a battle-torn hero that is feared, fear isn't necessarily being scared of what you see, it could be that your mind has been dominated and that you are seeing hallucinations that cause you to see the most horrific things imaginable. Anybody who doesn't have some fear just doesn't have rationale/sense.
Fear will probably make you run away. This will add excitement and danger as you could potentially run into a group of enemies and have to fight more.
Charm is more unknown. Maybe it will work like confused in D2.
As for being a battle-torn hero that is feared, fear isn't necessarily being scared of what you see, it could be that your mind has been dominated and that you are seeing hallucinations that cause you to see the most horrific things imaginable. Anybody who doesn't have some fear just doesn't have rationale/sense.
How about keeping it subtle ? Jesus christ have you people lost your minds with these autismal details ?!
Like dude... When you see diablo like, you pee yourself a little, so you get -4 dex penalty cuz your pants are wet. En then that unwashed pee causes a rash in your crotch so you take 5 damage per second. It all make sense dewd yeah. We want this to be epic.
Making other players lose control of their character... ridiculous amount of fun.
Losing control of your own character... pretty much the opposite.
How about keeping it subtle ? Jesus christ have you people lost your minds with these autismal details ?!
Like dude... When you see diablo like, you pee yourself a little, so you get -4 dex penalty cuz your pants are wet. En then that unwashed pee causes a rash in your crotch so you take 5 damage per second. It all make sense dewd yeah. We want this to be epic.
I don't know why you're being so abrasive, and I don't quite understand which direction you're going or if you're being sarcastic. Of course these things you're expressing will not be in the game.
Yep making players lose control of their character is bad gameplay, I remember dungeon runners that was so lame. Its creating a harder difficulty by using cheap tactics.
ShadoutMapes
16-09-2011, 23:43
If these forums prove anything at all, it is that peoples concepts of fun is wildly different.
Don't have a problem with losing control of my characters either, as long as you had a reasonable chance to avoid it in the first place. Like 'run away from this mob within 2 sec or you'll get feared'.
I think stun's okay as long as the duration is very short.
Fear is more annoying but could also be okay with a short duration.
Charm's rediculous; hopefully it will be changed to a debuff of some sort in pvp.
I don't mind these things in games where I control 4 or 6 chars, but in D3 being stunned/feared/charmed isn't gonna be much fun.
I'm okay with it being in the game as long as the devs took enough time to work on it.
Such Violent Storms
16-09-2011, 23:48
Fear will probably make you run away. This will add excitement and danger as you could potentially run into a group of enemies and have to fight more.
Charm is more unknown. Maybe it will work like confused in D2.
As for being a battle-torn hero that is feared, fear isn't necessarily being scared of what you see, it could be that your mind has been dominated and that you are seeing hallucinations that cause you to see the most horrific things imaginable. Anybody who doesn't have some fear just doesn't have rationale/sense.
Don't try and verify how a character's mind is affected. Twenty years ago in the Diablo timeline I plunged my character into the most horrifying situations imaginable and saved the world 3 times. Bantering about nonsense isn't going to get anywhere. Ultimately losing control of your character is a disconnect for the player.
If my screen is filled with effects from skills as Blizzard states, and players on my team get charmed, I'm suddenly amid hostile friends; I have to pay attention to who is charmed and who is not, which skills belong to who, which are enemies and which are friends, etc.
The issue at hand is that fear/charm make for bad gameplay. Fear ruins immersion and is frankly just annoying, and I don't even want to think about how terrible Charm is.
ShadoutMapes
16-09-2011, 23:52
Charm might be problematic yeah. Can't really see what should be so bad about fear. Its Stun - with movement.
Such Violent Storms
16-09-2011, 23:58
Charm might be problematic yeah. Can't really see what should be so bad about fear. Its Stun - with movement.
Ah, I'm glad you brought that up! Fear is effectively stun and then the computer takes control of your mouse. That's a pretty big disconnect, if you think about it.
Sure, there's the singular gameplay design element of "Oh, well, what if... perhaps, the fear causes you to run into a group of mobs! Aha! See, exciting!" when in actuality it's just not fun. Blizzard throws around the word "fun" a lot. If something is fun it's more likely to be included, and it won't be in the game if it's not fun. That's pretty simple; and it's just as simple to say that fear/charm are not fun.
ShadoutMapes
17-09-2011, 00:06
It is still an opinion that fear & charm is not fun though.
Charm can be quite fun, for some people - as in WoW where someone gets charmed and everyone else rush to kill the bastard for laughs (less fun in hardcore mode I guess...), or you get charmed and take 3 steps and oneshots a friend with your 500% dmg buff from the charm effect.
However I don't really think the above fits in Diablo either.
Such Violent Storms
17-09-2011, 00:24
It is still an opinion that fear & charm is not fun though.
Charm can be quite fun, for some people - as in WoW where someone gets charmed and everyone else rush to kill the bastard for laughs (less fun in hardcore mode I guess...), or you get charmed and take 3 steps and oneshots a friend with your 500% dmg buff from the charm effect.
However I don't really think the above fits in Diablo either.
Right, some people do enjoy that sort of gameplay. And in MMOs it can work, but in any sort of action game like GuildWars or especially Diablo it just isn't attractive. If people enjoy Fearing people they can play WoW. I think Diablo should be a break from that and remain consistent with a player's expectations of fast-paced gameplay that makes your hero feel truly heroic. Namean?
cacophony
17-09-2011, 01:05
Making other players lose control of their character... ridiculous amount of fun.
Losing control of your own character... pretty much the opposite.
Pretty much all that needed to be said. Of course you go into PvP knowing all of the control skills and all of the ways to get out of it. It's part of the learning curve.
Death is unfun and not heroic. They should remove dying.
yovargas
17-09-2011, 01:15
I love the idea of being potentially mind-controlled as long as it is reasonably avoidable.
I got a better idea. They should give some monster mind control and then give us the Bioshock hacking minigame to break out of it.
ShadoutMapes
17-09-2011, 01:37
Haha. Oh god talk about not fun.
What is to stop three Witch Doctors from chain-horrifying the enemy team during arena battles? Diminishing returns?
It'll be interesting to see how they implement this. Stuns/Fears have been huge sources of player complaints for years in WoW. They've been through tons of iterations over the years in an attempt to balance them in PvP/PvE. I'm not totally confident they can do them right...
I don't think loss of character makes a game lame. In a game like Dota, being stunned repeatedly and killed from full health is very frustrating, but it's usually avoidable. In a game like this, I doubt that will ever happen if you are fighting appropriate content and not failing to avoid a big attack you're supposed to dodge. Fear and stun will be in the game as the tooltip suggests, and they're fine. Stun increases the chance you will die, especially if you are a life stealer rather than a beefy character. Fear does the same while also possibly making the fight more interesting by aggroing new guys. Charm is unknown because we don't even know what it does, but I can guarantee that if you do get charmed it will be a very short duration, and they would probably prevent you from being charmed repeatedly without some sort of break.
probably the same way it works in wow
I think "feared" and "charmed" mean different things when they apply to a PC.
I think they're just going to be debuffs of sorts, atleast i hope so.
The Rockman
17-09-2011, 17:02
Personally I hope they make Feared = character can only move around for X secs but player still has control over where he/she goes. Charmed maybe it make players team colours-names-appearances switch in PvP etc I.E. if your not paying attention it really easy for youy to start chopping up your wizard mate instead of the other side monk.
Pyrohemia
17-09-2011, 18:04
Like dude... When you see diablo like, you pee yourself a little, so you get -4 dex penalty cuz your pants are wet. En then that unwashed pee causes a rash in your crotch so you take 5 damage per second. It all make sense dewd yeah. We want this to be epic.
Pant items in Inferno will be knitted from high-tech breathable fibers to minimize discomfort from involuntary urination at the sight of fearsome demons.
Much better than the frayed burlap breechcloth you will start out with.
smurphys
23-10-2011, 03:25
Did we learn more about this in Blizzcon?
I specifically remember a video demonstrating how new monsters are cool and awesome. A Wizard shot a Goat Shaman and the Shaman had a lightning shield that auto-fired back at the Wizard. The wizard stood still, her head drooped down, and stars flew around her head. Was this a stun effect?
cacophony
23-10-2011, 03:39
Also, PvP reports/ninja videos should be rolling in sometime tonight/tomorrow. Hopefully, that's a whole feast for thought on crowd control.
Ah, I'm glad you brought that up! Fear is effectively stun and then the computer takes control of your mouse. That's a pretty big disconnect, if you think about it.
Sure, there's the singular gameplay design element of "Oh, well, what if... perhaps, the fear causes you to run into a group of mobs! Aha! See, exciting!" when in actuality it's just not fun. Blizzard throws around the word "fun" a lot. If something is fun it's more likely to be included, and it won't be in the game if it's not fun. That's pretty simple; and it's just as simple to say that fear/charm are not fun.
Agreed. I'll comment on it as I imagine it since actual game play may be different. If it's like WoW and I'm playing a melee toon... it's very frustrating being feared and having to run back to the enemy. Stun I can live with if it's short duration. But charm and fear? Actually, it's pretty frustrating when your character is moving on its own and you're just sitting there watching. It's a what the heck moment.
smurphys
23-10-2011, 05:05
I also feel that losing control of my character is extremely not fun. I can tolerate disconnects because they are something "outside the game". I can understand, respect and enjoy being slowed, rooted or debuffed. These make my character more vulnerable but I still have a chance to do something. Losing control of my character is like someone pulling the mouse or keyboard out of my hands. If I wanted that to happen I'd get a cat.
Yeah, slowed , rooted and debuffed works for me. Lost of character control doesn't. I can only guess that in the harder difficulties, the enemy can fear more frequently. I can imagine attacking an enemy... watch my character run around like a fool, gain control (yay moment) and run back to enemy to see him run around like a fool again... and repeat. *cries*
demasked
23-10-2011, 09:11
I can almost imagine it...
My char runs toward enemy, gets feared and while running away gets crushed by a charmed Wizard's meteor :(
Quite sure pet classes will suffer from charm and fear a ton lol...
Witch Doctor summons Gargantuan... Gargantuan turns Witch Doctor into a pancake...
I'm really looking forward to seeing these implemented in pvp and pvm as it will definitely amp up tactics.
Neverwinter nights had fear effects , you would simply move in the opposite direction from the generator for a short time it was Pre WoW .
in addition Dungeons and Dragons had numerous types of fear effects, it is not a WoW only concept and never has been.
Such Violent Storms
24-10-2011, 01:53
Did anybody see any fear/charm effects in the PvP demo? Does the WD have any skills that do those things in the PvP demo? Would be nice to know if they actually made you lose control of your character.
Death is unfun and not heroic. They should remove dying.
Death is perfectly heroic, and a lot less common than fear/charm.
The next post you make should say something like "Waiting for D3 to install is not fun. They should remove installing." There's a point at which trying to be clever merges with succeeding to be stupid.
Agreed. I'll comment on it as I imagine it since actual game play may be different. If it's like WoW and I'm playing a melee toon... it's very frustrating being feared and having to run back to the enemy. Stun I can live with if it's short duration. But charm and fear? Actually, it's pretty frustrating when your character is moving on its own and you're just sitting there watching. It's a what the heck moment.
I agree. Stun almost always works as intended regardless of the game. If they really wanted those skills to hold some sort of an effect, they could be converted to apply stun instead for PvP.
yovargas
24-10-2011, 02:39
Did anybody see any fear/charm effects in the PvP demo? Does the WD have any skills that do those things in the PvP demo? Would be nice to know if they actually made you lose control of your character.
Hex was in constant display and, yes, you turn into an animal and lose control. Very brief duration, though.
Fear and Charm need to work in PVP, or else you limit build choices - one thing they stated a million times shouldn't happen.
Just add diminishing returns to fear, stun and charm in PVP and it's ok. For example: fear in PVP always applied to the same enemy could be like this:
- First Fear: 3 second fear
- Second Fear: 2 second fear (1 second diminishing return)
- Third Fear: 1 second fear (2 second dminishing return)
- Fourth Fear: immune.
Death of your character or death of their character resets the counter.
In a game like Diablo, where players die constantly in PVP judging from the PVP videos, you'll probably never fear someone 4 times before he dies or you die. I dont think you'll fear the same character more than twice. That way your skill (fear) won't become useless due to immunity to fear.
The feared player has to live with it, I think. It is a skill of a class and thus a weapon in their arsenal. Barbarians can on the other hand stun you, Wizards can freeze you, monks can also stun and slow you. Different classes, different abilities. If you kill the "fear" for WDs, you'd have to limit the other characters similar skills too. That won't and shouldn't happen.
Possible problems: what happens if 2 or more WDs use fear after each other on the same enemy? Should the diminishing return apply to the WD fear spells of the other WDs? I think it should not, because having fear as one of your skills basically limits your character to only 5 other skills. You made the choise to choose fear as a skill, so you should be able to use it even if other WDs in your team also use the same skill.
Personally I hope they make Feared = character can only move around for X secs but player still has control over where he/she goes. Charmed maybe it make players team colours-names-appearances switch in PvP etc I.E. if your not paying attention it really easy for youy to start chopping up your wizard mate instead of the other side monk.
The fear effect needs to send you away without you piloting the character. Or else a barbarian will just run around the WD "in fear", avoiding damage and at the same time staying close to the WD (which is not the idea of fear!). Maybe fear could let you pilot your character on a VERY limited basis. For example: WD fears you, your character starts running away in a straight line from the WD and you are allowed to change the angle of your movement by - lets say - 20%. That way you dont have to run into walls while feared or randomly into other packs of monsters in PvE (something that happened ALOT in WoW, so annoying).
The next post you make should say something like "Waiting for D3 to install is not fun. They should remove installing." There's a point at which trying to be clever merges with succeeding to be stupid.
Hey, you suggested the install thing, not me.
Death is perfectly heroic, and a lot less common than fear/charm.
Not all death is created equal. Getting skewered by a shiny Fallen or a corpse bomb is very much the opposite of heroic in my book.
GoldenredDragon
24-10-2011, 08:10
What about for the effects on a player character :
stun : no movement, no skills. short duration.
fear : flee in opposite direction from source, no skills. short duration.
charm : walk towards the source, no skills. short duration.
In a sense, they are all stuns, with just a little movement factor to spice up things a little bit. In all ways, they remain loss of control. Stun as well. Stun doesn't let you control your character anymore, you stand in place without doing anything ! It's the exact same for fear and charm, except that you move and lose positional advantage. (If those even exist)
As for effects on monsters, well fear and charm would be more potent, wheras stun would remain the same. Charm would enable skills on the monster, making him a temporary ally, just like expected, and Fear would last quite a while longer than on characters.
No biggie.
smurphys
24-10-2011, 13:41
Do you think the potential to be chain stunned, charmed or feared exsits?
For example, there may be a pack of characters who can charm. Get charmed... move closer... get charmed... move closer... get charmed... move closer.
Do you think the potential to be chain stunned, charmed or feared exsits?
If they are balancing the game to avoid easy insta-gibs, they will avoid stunlock. I very much doubt there will be unavoidable CC effects from monsters. Either telegraphed attacks, some condition (like that buff on the Goatman Shaman), or incredibly short duration.
Dnttryme
24-10-2011, 20:15
This is why people think some ideas were taken straight from WoW.
They shouldn't do this. Keep it simple, D2 style.
There needs to be some form of enemy player control for PvP. PvP will be too much of a cluster fvck otherwise.
demasked
24-10-2011, 22:30
Death is unfun and not heroic. They should remove dying.
Completely opposite of my line of thinking.
The more deaths (in campaign or pvp) the more challenge there is, the harder it is, the more enjoyable in figuring out how to overcome that challenge the game will be.
I hope all of the effects stay as that will force noob players to find out how to overcome such builds.
And for Charm:
Charm should have the charmed creature/player to fight for you for that duration. Also should use skills instead of just normal attacks.
It would be quite amusing to see a charmed wizard drop a meteorite on his/her unsuspecting allies and vise versa.
The challenge in Diablo 3 is that when you can't get past a part, you figure out which build is best in doing so (or change tactics) then try again.
The more deaths, the happier I will be, and most likely there will be plenty of death in inferno.
If you want some soft game go play wow or something...
smurphys
24-10-2011, 22:33
I want to die in Diablo 3. I will be disappointed if my first 5 characters aren't killed before Inferno.
However, what do you do against a champion monster pack that may chain-fear you and cause you to run to a quick death? What tactics or builds could you do? Run away when they are on the screen?
I want to get my character stuck in slows and killed. I can fight back and use my character against slows. I want to get my character debuffed and killed. I want to know I am in increased danger when cursed and know I need to play extra safe.
When stunned... I can't do anything. There's no strategy nor tactics. There's only prayer I become unstunned.
yovargas
24-10-2011, 22:41
However, what do you do against a champion monster pack that may chain-fear you and cause you to run to a quick death?
Avoid it, which is hopefully always possible for any loss-of-control effects.
smurphys
24-10-2011, 22:49
By running away and not fighting the foe? By not shooting?
Are all stun, charm and fear attacks expected to be slow missiles?
yovargas
24-10-2011, 23:27
No way to know yet but I expect they will be largely telegraphed in one way or another. We already see a good bit of telegraphed attacks in the beta with various "popping" monsters.
cacophony
24-10-2011, 23:48
You could do what the PvP players do; get a go-to CC breaker. Hopefully they spread them out so you're not stuck always using the same skill/rune forever.
However, what do you do against a champion monster pack that may chain-fear you and cause you to run to a quick death? What tactics or builds could you do? Run away when they are on the screen?
It is incredible just how much Diablo 2 ruined players perceptions of game balance.
Having CC on monsters != spammable, unavoidable CC on monsters to the point of guaranteed chained disable. That assumption should be about as self-evident as possible.
Such expectations are basically the same as "monsters do damage, ergo most monsters one shot players."
demasked
25-10-2011, 23:22
If the pack is melee, try to separate them and kill them off one by one, don't get completely surrounded.
If range, it might be easier to avoid the ranged projectile, separating them is useful, and ranged units probably have less life.
If you are soloing by yourself, your follower and any companions you might have as viable distractions. Ranged abilities/stun/ crowd control abilities will also be useful.
Sure the idea of fear/stun monsters might seem to be scary, but you have a ton of different ways to make it easier to kill these monsters off.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.