Melee DH?

[thebrightarmy]

I don't see that this has been covered, but sorry if there's already a similar thread...

Do you guys think there will be a way to build a melee demon hunter?

The way I see it, there are 2 obstacles - skills/traits and stats.

I don't think stats should be much of a problem. The game auto-assigns them, but it's not like I'll be getting all this dex when I need strength to dish out melee damage... I'm assuming the DH gets a little more precision and willpower than, say, a Barb, and probably a little less tanking ability - but that shouldn't make it unviable.

As to skills, there are a lot of DH skills (and probably traits) that are ranged only (like entangling shot, bola, etc). But since we can only have 7 skills anyway, I'm sure there have to be 7 skills that I can cobble together to make a DH that uses a dagger or whatever. Maybe traps, movement skills, stuff like that. And for traits I can choose things that similarly don't matter whether you're ranged or not...

So what do you think... viable? What are the best skills/traits you can think of to set this up?

[konfeta]

I believe it was mentioned earlier, with people dreaming about a thematically appropriated whip weapon class for the DH. Overall, though, we don't currently know enough about DH traits/spells to make even a generic assessment of viability. Blizzard, however, is looking into it (and given the fantastic concepts they have for melee Wizards, they might pull something cool off.)
http://www.diablowiki.net/Demon_Hunter#Melee_Combat.3F

Now, as you said, skills that look like they are ranged weapon only are difficult to adapt to melee playstyle as there is no weapon swap. For example, Cluster Arrow with stun skill rune woulda been fantastic for a melee DH, but alas, I don't think we can expect it to be usable with a sword.
http://www.diablowiki.net/Demon_Hunter_skills

Best bets would indeed be traps - you create a terrain patch with them where you stand your ground and force your enemies to take their full brunt which sounds like it would be easier for a melee DH to accomplish than for a ranged build.

There are also some nukes independent of ranged weapons - our current two examples are Fan of Knives and Grenades.

Vault you already mentioned.

Trait support is the last big question. I expect that for DH to be viable in melee they will need access to defensive traits (at the very least Vitality and Defense multipliers) and a trait or two that specialize them for melee (ala Drain Power that Wizards have, but perhaps something unique.) But we currently have zero information on their unique traits, so....

Overall, I expect the melee Demonhunter to be a cross between the Monk and Wizard, so to speak. Fragile and nimble melee combatant, hit and run reliance, heavy spellcasting usage. This is to contrast the Wizard's melee, which looks like it will be a tremendous tank thanks to innate life leach and a plethora of defensive spells.

[Neinball]

Attributes will be pretty well covered since they are very general now. Want to do more dmg? Increase you attack stat! Counts for ranged/melee/spell/everything

But like you pointed out skills/trait are going to be the thing that holds you back. Blizz talked at length last Blizzcon about the many iterations of the DH they went through and ended up throwing out because it became or just looked to melee orientated. That's not to say some of the remaining 15 or so skills we have yet to see won't be melee based but it's a pretty long shot at this point with the info we've been given.

[MeltyruZ]

I believe this is a possible Melee build

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#jgdaSV!VXU!bZaaaa

Thanks to some runestone effects there is life boost on some skills cast, and damage done to nearby enemies. Shakram is actually turned into a 'shield' which does damage close to the DH for 70 secs. Weapon damage is used, basic atk is boosted and there is extra atk speed and crit hit from various skill effects. Vault knockbacks and stuns, for entering combat rather than exit it.

Can someone confirm DH can use melee weapons? Bliz said 1h melee and shield was possible, but didn't know if it was final back then. Anyone tried in beta?

[Amarules]

All classes can use shields, so that suggests DH can also use 1H items.

I posted a pure melee build..or as close as I can think of in the DH build thread. With runestones there are actually some very nice defensive and support tools hidden among the mass of ranged stuff.

[Madmaxio]

All classes can use shields, so that suggests DH can also use 1H items.

I posted a pure melee build..or as close as I can think of in the DH build thread. With runestones there are actually some very nice defensive and support tools hidden among the mass of ranged stuff.

DH cant use melee weapons.


I don't see that this has been covered, but sorry if there's already a similar thread...

Do you guys think there will be a way to build a melee demon hunter?

The way I see it, there are 2 obstacles - skills/traits and stats.

I don't think stats should be much of a problem. The game auto-assigns them, but it's not like I'll be getting all this dex when I need strength to dish out melee damage... I'm assuming the DH gets a little more precision and willpower than, say, a Barb, and probably a little less tanking ability - but that shouldn't make it unviable.

As to skills, there are a lot of DH skills (and probably traits) that are ranged only (like entangling shot, bola, etc). But since we can only have 7 skills anyway, I'm sure there have to be 7 skills that I can cobble together to make a DH that uses a dagger or whatever. Maybe traps, movement skills, stuff like that. And for traits I can choose things that similarly don't matter whether you're ranged or not...

So what do you think... viable? What are the best skills/traits you can think of to set this up?

how is a melee build possible for a class, who just cant equip melee weapons? Im curious.

[Amarules]

DH cant use melee weapons.



how is a melee build possible for a class, who just cant equip melee weapons? Im curious.

What are you talking about you fool. Kindly stop spreading misinformation to people.

Demon Hunters can use a range of 1H melee weapons including maces, swords & javelins.

Go check your data before you post rubbish.

[ThulRasha]

I posted one in another thread here:


Melee Hunter:

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#VgcaUS!VcX!abccZc

First Attack = basic melee attack (will do +100% damage and restore hatred)
Second Attack = fan of knives (your active damage source and can stun oponents)

Hatred spender = spike trap x3 (slows = you do more damage against slowed oponents)
Discipline spender 1 = Caltrops: -90% damage taken by melee oponents and slows and damages oponents
Discipline spender 2 = Smoke screen choking gass: damage and invisible
Discipline spender 3 = Shadow power: much needed attack speed and 55% chance to dodge

Buff = Chakrams surrounding you for 70 seconds


It seems possible looking at the runed skills, but we don't know for sure until we can try it.

Caltrops is the key skill here, allowing for -90% melee damage taken and a +20% damage boost vs slowed targets. You will always want to be fighting inside the Caltrops area, after first eliminating any ranged attackers. Fan of Knives or Smoke screen may not works so well, you could replace those with a healing skill such as Preparation (Battle Scars). Edit: Or Cluster Arrow (Maelstrom).

Demon hunters can indeed use various melee weapons and shields. This is visible in a lot of the beta movies, where the items do not have a red cross in them.

[Sulle]

I don´t know if it will work, but i made a demon hunter who only uses daggers, although they are ranged it fits well with the assassin/melee theme.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#cPVSUe!Uce!YaacYa

[Cevilo]

the issue with melee DH, one I feel Blizzard needs to address, is that most of these skills are late game skills which you'll be at the end of normal before you see, and they require runes to make them a melee build.

this is one of those things that you might switch to after being ranged for most of normal, and have amassed enough runes and leveled up enough actually pull off, which kind of sucks. the final product may be a pretty sweet deal, but I don't think it's some thing you would really be able to use from start to finish by the average joe player, only the most devoted and tactical could really pull it off.

[gbone]

I think the Chakram skill should go with % weapon damage to scale well with later level :) except that all other skills are viable for melee DH

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#dSegcV!XcU!ZcZbYa

[ThulRasha]

the issue with melee DH, one I feel Blizzard needs to address, is that most of these skills are late game skills which you'll be at the end of normal before you see, and they require runes to make them a melee build.

this is one of those things that you might switch to after being ranged for most of normal, and have amassed enough runes and leveled up enough actually pull off, which kind of sucks. the final product may be a pretty sweet deal, but I don't think it's some thing you would really be able to use from start to finish by the average joe player, only the most devoted and tactical could really pull it off.

It seems Blizzard agrees with you and is throwing the order of skills around a bit.

I would not start with a melee DH anyway. Best thing is to gather a few items (and runes!) with a different character first.

[Cevilo]

honestly, I'm not sure if I would ever go melee (for long term) with a DH ever, unless they gave her a unique aspect of being melee.

[Madmaxio]

What are you talking about you fool. Kindly stop spreading misinformation to people.

Demon Hunters can use a range of 1H melee weapons including maces, swords & javelins.

Go check your data before you post rubbish.

Decent rage son, but im curious what skills you gonna use for your melee demon hunter. Going to spam chakram/traps and call this melee build or use basic atack 24/7 till the end of the inferno? Let me know

[Cevilo]

Decent rage son, but im curious what skills you gonna use for your melee demon hunter. Going to spam chakram/traps and call this melee build or use basic atack 24/7 till the end of the inferno? Let me know

there are still skills that they are working on, that are not listed in the skill calculator yet. I'm willing to bet there will be some melee viable skills.

[Amarules]

Decent rage son, but im curious what skills you gonna use for your melee demon hunter. Going to spam chakram/traps and call this melee build or use basic atack 24/7 till the end of the inferno? Let me know

A melee buildis simply one that operates without ranged attacks.it doesnt mean you must swing your club 24/7.

As for build:
Chakram runed to blade armor.
Caltrops runed to cause damage per second to mobs within it.
Marked for Death-> more damage taken within area
Shadow Power for 55% dodge
FoKnives-> chance to stun on hit
Sentry for the 32% reduced dmg shield.

Stack caltrops & marked for death zone. Stand in area with bladeshield up. Spam fok for stun. Melee attack using 1h & shield when hatred starved.

Sounds about as melee as you can get.

[ThulRasha]

Decent rage son, but im curious what skills you gonna use for your melee demon hunter. Going to spam chakram/traps and call this melee build or use basic atack 24/7 till the end of the inferno? Let me know

A Melee DH basically means standing (and surviving) in melee range, not neccesary attacking 24/7 with basic attack.

If you could not use AoE abilities, you would not call a Monk or Barbarian melee either.

[ThulRasha]

Chakram runed to blade armor.


What is blade armor? I asume you mean Shuriken Cloud?

With the shuffled and changed abilities I'd go for:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#hPWZUj!fcX!YbaZca

Hatred:
Basic Melee attack (Fundamentals) as primary hatred generator
Spike Trap (Bandolier) as secondary hatred generator
Cluster Arrow (Maelstrom) as hatred spender (hatred cost reduced with Grenadier passive)
Chakram (Shuriken Cloud) as aoe buff

Discipline:
Caltrops (Jagged Spikes) for 110% weapon damage aoe and slow for Cull the Weak passive
Shadow Power (Gloom) for 55% dodge
Sentry (Guardian Turrer) for 32% damage resistance buff


I am quite certain that the demon hunter abilities will change again, as there are a few now that do not make sense. Some that caught my eye:
1. Grenadier: Reduces hatred cost of grenades by 15. This makes no sense since grenades no longer cost hatred, but instead generates hatred.
2. Strafe: costs hatred but is listed as hatred generator.
3. Fundamentals: basic attack generates 15 hatred, but any DH other than melee DH will rather use a hatred generator than a basic attack since the changes.

[swart]

Sample melee DH build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#hgWdkU!eXc!Ycaabc

-shield and 1H weapon
-status effect and attack speed properties on equipment
-passive skill Fundamentals, basic attack damage +100%, I assume melee weapons count

-Spike Trap (Bandolier): Run around casting traps to keep distance and attack at the same time
-Vault (Rattling Roll): Allows you to vault away from danger, or vault on top of the enemies and stun them.
-Chakram (Shuriken Cloud): extra DPS in melee range
-Shadow Power (Gloom): dodge %, combined with shield blocking should be good survivability
-Fan of Knives (Fan of Daggers): possible stun, slow, AOE damage cast every 10 seconds
-Preparation (Battle Scars): for emergencies

[Amarules]

What is blade armor? I asume you mean Shuriken Cloud?




Ye I did. Had a look at the new changes. 10 second cooldown on Fan of Knives now so I gets thats out. Honestly don't get such a cooldown on that kind of skill. Probably spike traps or runed strafe as a replacement. Leaning towards spikes but it just doesn't feel like theres any real melee option for DH now.

[ThulRasha]

It won't be as optimal as a monk, barbarian, or even wizard. But it might still be fun for a challenge.
Unless the skills change again and it becomes completely impossible.

[Cevilo]

sure there is it's just limited. very limited. also they are adding more skills i believe so MAYBE it will have melee attacks. :)

[demasked]

Personally I don't think the Demon Hunter should be at all melee (the close quarter skills are fine of course).

Here is why:

The Demon Hunter hates, or should I say loathes demons so much that, seeing one from a distance, he or she would want to fight it as soon as possible.

Being at a distance, the Demon Hunter can hardly engage with his or her enemy which is precisely why the Demon Hunter is pretty much all range.

Makes sense to me... if you hate your enemy so much you want to kill it quickly and running up with a blade just wastes time when you can just knock/draw/loose and walk away with satisfaction that your enemy is dead. Plus you don't have to do all that running in the first place...

Plus in modern combat it's all about distancing yourself from the enemy so that, once the enemy is seen, damage can be dealt from that distance instead of running up to do the damage.

Range is superior to melee until melee gets too close only to fall to the ground as an arrow riddled pincushion.

[kager]

just checked beta to confirm which skills that are unlocked are usable with a spear rather then a bow. It's exactly what you would assume.

you have these usable (in brackets are assumed)

grenades
chakram
fan of knives
(spike trap) not unlocked

all unlocked disc ones are usable, assuming all will be.

too bad fundamentals isnt unlocked, that would be interesting to see if you can melee build hate. you will see chakram builds, low level is is very strong and still hasnt seem its weapon damage % boost yet.

i could easily see something like http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#jghWfZ!VXU!bZbZba
be viable with a sword and shield (although it might scare me to use this without smoke screen in hardcore)

[KingVarnon]

A big problem with a melee demon hunter is the lack of damaging melee skills. A good way to counter act this is skills that increase damage to monsters. I have seen a few builds use this tactic a little, but I haven't seen it mentioned specifically here.

Caltrops (Jagged Spikes), Marked for Death (Valley of Death), Cull the Weak and Numbing Traps work very well together to produce a strong area of effect curse that a melee Demon Hunter can fight in.

These skills together (if all effects stack) should cause 40% extra damage to monsters, 65% slowing effect, 52% weapon damage per second, and 3 seconds of 30% reduced monster damage. That sounds like a pretty decent set. We can even add the passive Custom Engineering to boost the duration the curse.

I think this is a pretty great start for a melee demon hunter. Simply cast your curse spells and fight in that area.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#....QY!cfg!....cZ

Fundamentals may be a better passive that Custom Engineering for this build. The curse may last long enough for a pack of monsters without the duration boost. If the Demon Hunter uses a lot of basic attacks, Fundamentals could really go a long way.

Spike trap and Chakram (Shuriken Cloud) would also work pretty well with this build. Vault is also likely a necessary skill for a melee Demon Hunter. I think a lot of tweaking will need to be done, especially to balance discipline use. This appears to be a very discipline intensive build.

It does seem like there will be some viability of a melee Demon Hunter. And it does sound like a lot of fun. Lack of a true melee skill does make it difficult, but I think it is manageable.



Ultimately, I think I like this build:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#TdWhQY!cfd!YaYbcZ
A boar for additional damage, without constant discipline consumption, and a boomerang chakram to use up hatred and deal stronger damage to 1 enemy. Fundamentals to increase basic attack damage (and to generate hatred to keep up a chakram spam) And a scatter spike trap to toss in some extra damage to the cursed area.

I feel like we do have to make some concession for a thrown chakram (or knifes or grenades). It doesn't seem like there is a really good way to exclude any ranged abilities for the melee Demon Hunter.

[Hokuto no Ken]

I'm hoping for a knife based build myself, now that impale got changed to a knife throw. So i wonder if our non bow DH if blizzard decides to throw us a bone will be knife based instead?

[Sulle]

Ultimately, I think I like this build:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#TdWhQY!cfd!YaYbcZ
A boar for additional damage, without constant discipline consumption, and a boomerang chakram to use up hatred and deal stronger damage to 1 enemy. Fundamentals to increase basic attack damage (and to generate hatred to keep up a chakram spam) And a scatter spike trap to toss in some extra damage to the cursed area.

I feel like we do have to make some concession for a thrown chakram (or knifes or grenades). It doesn't seem like there is a really good way to exclude any ranged abilities for the melee Demon Hunter.


Wouldn´t it be a better idea to use the spider as a companion since you already have the passive cull the weak?

[KingVarnon]

Oh yeah, you are totally right!

[Neinball]

How does Impale work now? I know the graphic is a knife but can it be used with a melee weapon equipped? I've not seen anyone try it out.

[Mage Slayer]

In the beta it's bugged so that it's still bow-class only, but it should work with anything in the final game.

[JumpyMonkey]

How does Impale work now? I know the graphic is a knife but can it be used with a melee weapon equipped? I've not seen anyone try it out.

Currently its bugged and can only be used with a bow equipped but it is intended to be used with any weapon. In the Current Known Issue thread it says "Impale requires a bow to be used even though it is no longer a bow skill."

[KingVarnon]

Interesting. If it could be used with melee weapons that would open up some more possibilities. I'm really not sure how it would work though... Some of the rune variations (Overpenetration) seem like they will require a projectile.

[JaMonk]

What about Fan of Knives for a Melee DH? 450% weapon damage + slow, even before skillrunes? Anybody?

[JumpyMonkey]

Interesting. If it could be used with melee weapons that would open up some more possibilities. I'm really not sure how it would work though... Some of the rune variations (Overpenetration) seem like they will require a projectile.

It is still a projectile, just won't require a bow because the knife is hand thrown and not launched from the weapon.