View Full Version : Best Pit and AT runner.
Vytautas
17-07-2011, 14:25
I have a Light/orb sorc lvl 88 atm with ok gear, fulltals (ptopaz armour and helm), 33spirit, chansguard, WT, nagel and 10fcr 15@ring, 12/12torch,sucky gheeds a couple of 7mf sc and some life and mana sc. I know im not getting the max fcr breakpoint but i was thinking mf was more important.
Merc has talshelm, stone armour (ca3200def) and 17aura insight.
I run countes, summoner, lowkurast, pindle and tresh socket atm. Which is going fine.
I can do pit and AT, but its not easy. I need tips to be able to do pit and ancient tunnels like they were a cakewalk. New items, respec skills, bigger balls? I mostly want to do them because of hr drops, so mf isnt that imortant.
Thanks!
ps: Cant afford infinity.
For me, +1 energy shield and +20 telekenesis did the trick. I never tried this before on previous ladder seasons, but I'm a believer now. I run pits and ancient tunnels very reliably and quickly with essentially the same gear you have.
I don't know what level you are, but obviously raising you level up to 88-90 makes things a lot easier.
Vytautas
17-07-2011, 20:11
In the first sentace it says im lvl 88 :D
In the first sentace it says im lvl 88 :D
Ahh, okay. I missed that. Anyway, try it out.
I know im not getting the max fcr breakpoint but i was thinking mf was more important.
MF is never more important then fcr breakpoints.
I also agree with the above poster. It's not hard to reach the 105, even with a tal's set (spirit and magefist will do it).
Also, having less mf (like 250-300) has it's perks. You will find more white items.
105 fcr should help a lot, I would not use a sorc with less.
Blizzball or Meteorb is better IMO.
Vytautas
18-07-2011, 17:08
Isnt the breakpoint 117 fcr, atleast for lightsorc. Or am i wrong here?
Anyhow, i was poking arund the forum and some other places and decided to stick with my Cl/orber, it works well in both pit and at and many other places. Im not a big fan of running bosses like meph etc..
My new setup is:
CL/orb: 20 CL, 20 L, 20 LM, 20 Orb, enough points in CM to get atleast -100 res, rest in lightbolt.
Gear:
Shako(ptopaz) ----> should i go um here?
Arach
Wartravs
Chanseguard 40
Viper 35@ upped to wyrmhide socket UM
Spirit 33fcr
1x magic ring 10fcr 11@
1x magic ring 10fcr 15@
Mara 25@
Occu (planing on isted one)
With this setup i get:
- 11+ skills (not included torch)
- Decent def.
- 123fcr
- around 220 mf (not inclued mf sc)
- Good stat bonus
- I have max res in all exept fire.
- A downside is that i lack fhr, only got 55 from spirit.
Ive been doing runs the last couple fo days and i have to say its going smoth. Does any1 have any tips on how i can improve this EVEN furter. Future item uppgrades.
PS: i still cant afford infinity
Thanks!
Isnt the breakpoint 117 fcr, atleast for lightsorc. Or am i wrong here?
Nope, you are quite correct. Nova is the exception though - it only needs 105. This is why light sorcs are not great when you start ladder. They need way too much fcr. The only way to realistically get this much fcr is to use spirit, magefist and griffons with tals... or you to pile on a bunch of fcr items everywhere (which is what you're doing). But then you can't use sojs or other rings that might be a heck of a lot more helpful for mfing.
This is generally why I think chain lightning is not a good build to start with.
Gear:
Shako(ptopaz) ----> should i go um here?
Arach
Wartravs
Chanseguard 40
Viper 35@ upped to wyrmhide socket UM
Spirit 33fcr
1x magic ring 10fcr 11@
1x magic ring 10fcr 15@
Mara 25@
Occu (planing on isted one)
With this setup i get:
- 11+ skills (not included torch)
- Decent def.
- 123fcr
- around 220 mf (not inclued mf sc)
- Good stat bonus
- I have max res in all exept fire.
You really need to give Tal's set a try. It's about time to get over the "omg i am not using uniques and runewords!" syndrome. It is cheaper, and it's also better - especially in your case.
Just imagine with tal's set, spirit and magefist, you can reach 105 fcr. This is enough for all fire, cold and nova spells.
With tals, you get +15% to all of your elements. Sometimes this works out where you get 26% bonus damage (in the case of meteor, fireball)... but even orb gets a big boost too.
Also, you get way more life and mana than when compared to shako. It's true! Try it!
I think you'll find that you will get more mf, and actually kill faster and survive better with tals. It IS an upgrade, albeit a non-obvious upgrade.
- A downside is that i like fhr, only got 55 from spirit.
You can use charms of balance if you are not using Tal set. One charm of balance will make you hit the next breakpoint. 5 charms will get you to the next breakpoint. With Tal's Set, you only need 1 charm to reach the 86% breakpoint.
Vytautas
18-07-2011, 18:02
Funny thing is that i was using full tals befor this, and i felt that the setup now was a uppgrade. Because im mostly runing for hr i dont need the extra mf.
Comparison fulltals vs current setup.
life 317 vs 132 = 150
mana 279 vs 232
fhr 80 vs 55
mf ~280 vs 220
current setup has better +stats
current setup has more plus skills (even counting + in masteries and 15% i think more + skills ad up to be more dmg)
Current setup better @
Both these build can be altered with rings, depending on how much fcr. But whit 2x 10fcr rings on both builds they both ad up to 123fcr.
Vytautas
18-07-2011, 18:12
Nope, you are quite correct. Nova is the exception though - it only needs 105.
In the sorc forum there is a sticky on a tread about breakpoints etc..
Lightning / Chain Lightning / Inferno Faster Cast Rates
FCR % FPC
0 19
7 18
15 17
23 16
37 15
52 14
78 13
117 12
194 11
This is taken from the tread, dont understand where you are geting the 105 fcr from? CL is my main killing skill.
In the sorc forum there is a sticky on a tread about breakpoints etc..
Lightning / Chain Lightning / Inferno Faster Cast Rates
FCR % FPC
0 19
7 18
15 17
23 16
37 15
52 14
78 13
117 12
194 11
This is taken from the tread, dont understand where you are geting the 105 fcr from? CL is my main killing skill.
I said you were correct. Nova though only needs 105. All the useful cold and fire skills only need 105. Chain Lightning/Lightning are the only skills that need 117.
current setup has more plus skills (even counting + in masteries and 15% i think more + skills ad up to be more dmg)
"I think" <- that's the key words here. Do you know for sure? People have done the math and conclude that the tal's bonuses are better. So why throw them away just because they are "lowly set items"?
You basically showed that tal's has better everything else, and it also does more damage too. What is not like? Unless you like wasting wealth that could be better used on your actual characters?
Current setup better @
Tal's is close to max resists. With anni and torch, getting max resists is a joke with tals. This is not really a pain argument. The only resist that you will be low on is poison and fire, which is easily rectified with nature's peace (which you'll need for key running anyway) and 1 fire charm sc. To me, 1 charm of balance + 1 resist charm is better than having to stack 6 sc's of balance any day. This means I can have 4 more 7%mf charms than you as well.
Vytautas
18-07-2011, 18:25
Sorry i didnt read it correct, my misstake. :P
Vytautas
18-07-2011, 18:30
Damn your right, i was way to hasty throwing my tals in the trash. Ive just had the tals for so long that i got a bit bored with it. I needed a change and mabe didnt really think it through. Got togher a new setup and it felt great but it was probably just because it was new. New stuff is alwais nice. But why fix it if it aint broke? Mabe all i needed was to tweek my tals setup a bit more, +fcr to hit 117, litte bit more fhr and a pinch of res. It would have saved me alot of hastle and a handful of runes if i would have figured that out yesterday. DOH!
I think ill give my tals one more go. This time i wont socked helm and armour with ptopaz though.
Thanks for all the input, cant wait to tell my friend who just started a new sorc that i need my tals back, ASAP.
Damn your right, i was way to hasty throwing my tals in the trash. Ive just had the tals for so long that i got a bit bored with it. I needed a change and mabe didnt really think it through. Got togher a new setup and it felt great but it was probably just because it was new. New stuff is alwais nice. But why fix it if it aint broke? Mabe all i needed was to tweek my tals setup a bit more, +fcr to hit 117, litte bit more fhr and a pinch of res. It would have saved me alot of hastle and a handful of runes if i would have figured that out yesterday. DOH!
I think ill give my tals one more go. This time i wont socked helm and armour with ptopaz though.
Thanks for all the input, cant wait to tell my friend who just started a new sorc that i need my tals back, ASAP.
I have my tal's orb socketed with ist, and my helm and armor socketed with ptopaz's. It's worked out pretty well so far. I have maxed resists, 1570 life and 1580 mana with my cta. I'm using energy shield and max telekinesis, so that's basically godly life. My warmth is already so high that teleporting doesn't cost mana anymore, so the +skill from arach or whatever wouldn't make much more of a difference. Tal's is the way to go ;)
Vytautas
18-07-2011, 18:46
I think ill max my telekinesis aswell, sounds like a good plan. My only problem is that i need 2x rings 10fcr + magefist to hit 117. Even if i would have perfekt spirit 35 + mage + 1x 10fcr ring it would only be only 115. Whereas in my curent build i could swap out my chanseguards for magefist and get 2 soj.
So i cant get nature which would be nice. Anyway my first step is to get my tals back, then get me a +2light +2cold orb and magefist.
I think ill max my telekinesis aswell, sounds like a good plan. My only problem is that i need all both rings 10fcr + mage to hit 117. Even if i would have perfekt spirit 35 + mage + 1x ring it would only be only 115.
So i cant get nature which would be nice. Anyway my first step is to get my tals back and then get me a +2light +2cold orb.
This is why you shouldn't use chain lightning until you get a griffons and can really take advantage of its high fcr requirements.
My build is nova/blizzard/fireball. It works. You spam nova/blizzard most of the time. If something is lightning immune, you spam fireball/blizzard. If something is both lightning AND fire immune, you spam glacial spike (just 1 point) and blizzard. If something is cold immune, you just spam nova.
At level 90, you should have enough points to get 20 in nova, 20 in blizzard, 10+ in lightning mastery, 20 in telekinesis, 10+ in fireball.
All skills only need 105 fcr - spirit, tals and magefist.
This enables you to run every area in the game. Also, a 2/2/2 tal orb basically gives you 6 skill points for free.
This is the cheapest and most versatile build to start on ladder. You can mf every area except for chaos and baal... and when you get infinity, you can do chaos and baal.
If you don't want to go tri-element, than go dual element and just make sure that your skills only need the 105 breakpoint. The 105 breakpoint gives such a massive increase in damage (19%) that chain lightning is really not worth it unless you can reach the 117 breakpoint efficiently. You shouldn't have to sacrifice everything (like your ring slots) just to make it. Of course, if you have some godly fcr ring, then that wouldn't be a sacrifice, but we're talking about start of ladder, yes? 105 is plenty. The build should be designed with 105 in mind at the start of ladder.
Happy mfing!
You have been advocation the tri elementalist alot lately here. I dont see the big deal. Every duel elemental build is superior to the tri elementalist on every level. esp with the tal set.
The reason? You are saying youself, and i quote: " You can mf every area except for chaos and baal..."
Every dual elemental build can do both chaos and baal and still do every area that you can. And the most important reason for going dual elemental compared to a tri elemental. A dual build can do it _quicker_.
And, you can also do this in a higher player setting. Now enlighten me. Why should someone spec a tri elemental build, esp a build like yours with absolutely no synergies maxed, besides that its a fun and unique build? and that you dont want to leave any monster unkilled?
I see that my post here is a bit harsh and i dont mean it to be :) and i hope i am not offending you. :scratchchin::smug:
I guess I should refraise - any sorc can do baal/chaos with infinity - especially a light sorc played well.
Having said that, no sorc can do chaos/baal like a hammerdin. If you want to do chaos/baal, a hammerdin just makes a lot more sense. But if you have infinity, it's a lot easier for a sorc to do it.
I generally don't think having a merc poke at the dual immunes to be an acceptable solution. It's annoying and I find it slow.
The other reason tri-elemental works well is due to the fact that you don't need 12k damage to kill 99% of the things in the game. Having to synergize everything for 1-player mf runs is a fallacy.
For example, an unsyngergized nova pummels through the pits effortlessly. Why waste points synergizing it for when you can have a fire attack to make the lightning/cold immunes go quicker?
The overall time is actually faster since you're never waiting for your merc to kill stuff.
The only exception to this rule is killing mephisto or shenk. All you need is something with crushing blow on the merc to deal with it - and presto, you don't need any synergies at all and you can speed through everything using 3 elements.
Having said that, no sorc can do chaos/baal like a hammerdin. If you want to do chaos/baal, a hammerdin just makes a lot more sense. But if you have infinity, it's a lot easier for a sorc to do it.
IMO and from my experience, a 200fcr light sorc will run a 125 or 75 fcr hdin into the ground in chaos, pretty much keep up vs. baal's minions because of wave 2 slowness, and then once more stomp the hdin vs. baal.
IMO and from my experience, a 200fcr light sorc will run a 125 or 75 fcr hdin into the ground in chaos, pretty much keep up vs. baal's minions because of wave 2 slowness, and then once more stomp the hdin vs. baal.
Well, 200fcr and infinity I think is something that is outside the original poster's requirements. I have a light sorc on non-ladder from last season that is really good... but it's really expensive to make on ladder when you just start.
Lightning with infinity is generally overpowered altogether.
This poster wanted a build that can do well in AT and pits - I surely gave him one - and a really cheap build at that. I am just starting ladder as well and I am building wealth. The build I suggested is the build I actually use. It really does work. It also allows to run many other areas too and is cheap to make.
Well, 200fcr and infinity I think is something that is outside the original poster's requirements. I have a light sorc on non-ladder from last season that is really good... but it's really expensive to make on ladder when you just start.
Lightning with infinity is generally overpowered altogether.
An off topic remark engenders an off topic remark. A hdin is outside what the op is asking for as well. I was just inferring that a hdin is not a faster runner than an equally well equipped sorc.
This poster wanted a build that can do well in AT and pits - I surely gave him one - and a really cheap build at that. I am just starting ladder as well and I am building wealth. The build I suggested is the build I actually use. It really does work. It also allows to run many other areas too and is cheap to make.
He wants to do these things easily and quickly. Tri elemental is anything but. Sure, they don't have to worry about dual immunes, but much like it is a waste of time to let the merc kill every dual immune you run into, it is a waste of time to respec to a build that offers less killing power versus 98% of your opponents just to be able to kill that 2% faster.
In my opinion, the op should stick with orb/light, it is a fantastic area runner build.
I guess I should refraise - any sorc can do baal/chaos with infinity - especially a light sorc played well.
Having said that, no sorc can do chaos/baal like a hammerdin. If you want to do chaos/baal, a hammerdin just makes a lot more sense. But if you have infinity, it's a lot easier for a sorc to do it.
I generally don't think having a merc poke at the dual immunes to be an acceptable solution. It's annoying and I find it slow.
The other reason tri-elemental works well is due to the fact that you don't need 12k damage to kill 99% of the things in the game. Having to synergize everything for 1-player mf runs is a fallacy.
For example, an unsyngergized nova pummels through the pits effortlessly. Why waste points synergizing it for when you can have a fire attack to make the lightning/cold immunes go quicker?
The overall time is actually faster since you're never waiting for your merc to kill stuff.
The only exception to this rule is killing mephisto or shenk. All you need is something with crushing blow on the merc to deal with it - and presto, you don't need any synergies at all and you can speed through everything using 3 elements.
Is this your answer to me? if it is. Then try again. I can break it down and answer it all but its so messed up i am not gonna bother..
I guess I should refraise - any sorc can do baal/chaos with infinity - especially a light sorc played well.
I am not talking about a sorc with infinity. I am talking about a dual elemental specced sorc. Meteorb, Cl/fo, Blova, Blizzballer.
A infinity light sorc is superior to any dual elemental build.
Having said that, no sorc can do chaos/baal like a hammerdin. If you want to do chaos/baal, a hammerdin just makes a lot more sense. But if you have infinity, it's a lot easier for a sorc to do it.
A hammerdin without enigma will not do chaos/baal faster then a dual elemental specced sorc. And wtf has a hammerdin to do with anything.
I generally don't think having a merc poke at the dual immunes to be an acceptable solution. It's annoying and I find it slow. .
Then its very safe for me to assume that you dont have a good enough weapon and armourset on your merc to have even tried it. You should try it. Even a insight in the right weapon and the right merc speed breakpoint is a good and fast killer.
The other reason tri-elemental works well is due to the fact that you don't need 12k damage to kill 99% of the things in the game. Having to synergize everything for 1-player mf runs is a fallacy.
For example, an unsyngergized nova pummels through the pits effortlessly. Why waste points synergizing it for when you can have a fire attack to make the lightning/cold immunes go quicker?
First of all, nova cannot be synergized. Second. I have never said anything about the fact that you need a 12k attack to kill.
For example. a glacial spiked synergized blizzard not only kills faster the non cold immune then a 1k + 500ish fireball spam specc you have. But the benefit you get from synergizing the blizz is a glazial that freezes longer for your nova to be safer to be spammed, esp if you dont have the damage to put mobs into hit recovery.
The overall time is actually faster since you're never waiting for your merc to kill stuff.
Again, read above and try it.
The only exception to this rule is killing mephisto or shenk. All you need is something with crushing blow on the merc to deal with it - and presto, you don't need any synergies at all and you can speed through everything using 3 elements.
And here you are contradicting yourself. Now you need a merc to be able to speed up killing mephisto and uhh, shenk? for any dual elemental build, both those mobs are a breeze and does not need to rely on a merc to kill them.
I am still not convinced.
Vytautas
19-07-2011, 08:04
I have a question about what merc is best suited for me. Atm im still using my might merc which i got when i was all light a while back, so that he could kill of immunes easier. For some reason he has stuck with me all this time. Because with light/orb i can more or less kill everything faster then him there is no reason for him to have might. Exept for big bosses which i dont run anyways.
My question is if should stay with might or go def or holyfreeze?
Ps: Found my first ohm rune yesterday, and made a cta (first one ever), it got 6BO. Made my runs a hell of a lot easier with :D
With your spesific needs i would suggest a insight prayer merc:) The reason is the great mana and life battery you get from it. The merc prayer aura "synergize" the meditation aura.
The reason i am putting synergize in "" is that its not really a synergy like the damage spells synergize each other, but its a added benefit for the meditation aura to gain prayer healing. In reality you get two ticks of prayer aura. One from the merc and one from the meditation aura.
Here is a excellent guide for more info about mercs:
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306061
And congratulations with your ohm and cta!! nice! I actually would suggest you sell that cta and buy a lower one. The reason is simple. That cta can get you hrs that you can use to buy/make a infinity with:) If you do decided to sell it, dont let it go for cheap:)
If you are curious about how much you can get from that Cta you can make a post in the trade value forums and ask other players. Or check the price guide for your realm. For Europe, that cta will go for 2 hrs.
Vytautas
19-07-2011, 08:59
I think i will savour it atleast a couple of days. Thanks for the tips. Ill check out the guide.'
Regarding merc i was actually leaning more in the holy freeze direktion. After i got cta my life and mana issues sort of went away. I think holyfreeze would be nice to slow down the tempo a bit in pit and at especially for those huge mob crowds that you can encounter down there. Since my main killing skills are lightning and CL im constantly slowing stuff with orb. I think i would only go defiance if i went with a maxblock sorc, which i dont.
But of course:) holy freeze is never wrong. Just hire one and try it:) if you like it stick to it and if you dont. Try another one :)
Its note like it used to be before when you had to level one up from normal to get the best possible stats on it. Thats taken out of the game.
The "best" pit runner isn't an elemental sorc, seeing as all 3 immunities can spawn there (fire, lightning and cold). A non-elemental based character is the hands-down best pit runner (the various amazons, necros, paladins).
So to answer your question, if you're dead set on playing a sorc to clear AT and Pit, I'd say lighting/orb with infinity.
But of course:) holy freeze is never wrong. Just hire one and try it:) if you like it stick to it and if you dont. Try another one :)
Its note like it used to be before when you had to level one up from normal to get the best possible stats on it. Thats taken out of the game.
Partially true. While you no longer need to "level" the merc, the ones hired in normal DO have the best possible stats. The only reason people use nightmare mercs is because their auras are unavailable in normal. If you can choose between a merc hired in hell and one hired in normal, always go for the normal one.
Eilo Rytyj
19-07-2011, 16:04
*cough* (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671691)
Fire Ball spam makes things fall down.
Frozen Orb for the fire immunes.
Static Field then Telekinesis stunlock fire/cold immune bosses to a wall and let minion poke to death.
Teleport away from things to not die.
easy, no?
The "best" pit runner isn't an elemental sorc, seeing as all 3 immunities can spawn there (fire, lightning and cold). A non-elemental based character is the hands-down best pit runner (the various amazons, necros, paladins).
So to answer your question, if you're dead set on playing a sorc to clear AT and Pit, I'd say lighting/orb with infinity.
I beg to differ, a lightning sorc match all those necros, paladins and amazon in killing speed for the pits. Now this is besides the point of the op's post so i wount start a discussion about this. Its just matter of seconds anyways..
And you dont play a sorc specced for orb and lightning with infinity, ever. Why would you.
Partially true. While you no longer need to "level" the merc, the ones hired in normal DO have the best possible stats. The only reason people use nightmare mercs is because their auras are unavailable in normal. If you can choose between a merc hired in hell and one hired in normal, always go for the normal one.
That was actually news for me :) thanks. I tried it earlier and the diffrence is actually larger then i thought it would be aswell. Well what do you know:) I still learn new things about this game after so many hours of playing it.
This is a little off topic but seems like a good place to ask since it's been said a number of times in this thread that a high fcr light sorc with infinity is very good. I'm assuming that the infinity would be for your merc. In another thread it was stated that the -resists that is on the infinity does not work for your merc and only works if you hold it yourself. That the conviction on the infinity is what breaks some immunes. First is this correct? And if so, why then is it considered such a benefit for the lightning sorc to have an infinity, more so than a cold or fire based sorc?
I'm mainly wondering because I am fortunate to have an eth infinity on each of my two sorc's, one is pure light and the other light/cold and I've always thought that the -resists on my mercs infinity was helping the lightning skills do a lot more damage.
other thread
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7947329#post7947329
it is a waste of time to respec to a build that offers less killing power versus 98% of your opponents just to be able to kill that 2% faster.
See, that part is not true. Most enemies don't need 10k+ damage to kill.
When I suggest a build, it isn't theory crafting. It works. I can run EVERY area in the game, and I do it fast. Yes, you can't just hold a mouse button down and snooze. I never promised that you COULD do that. What I promised was a fast build that could do the pits AND ancient tunnels AND whatever else you wanted to do.
Now that I have infinity, I can do baal and chaos with no deaths at all and very quickly. It's almost the same speed as a hammerdin honestly. What your saying is just flat out wrong. If you were right, I would have spec'd to something else a long time ago.
First is this correct? And if so, why then is it considered such a benefit for the lightning sorc to have an infinity, more so than a cold or fire based sorc?
I don't know the exact math, but it appears that lightning immunes are easier to break and cold is the hardest. I'm not sure why, but I remember reading about this a long time ago. Essentially, a cold sorc using infinity gets better damage (there is no reason not to use infinity regardless of which sorc you are using), but you won't break immunities with it.
In another thread it was stated that the -resists that is on the infinity does not work for your merc and only works if you hold it yourself. That the conviction on the infinity is what breaks some immunes. First is this correct? And if so, why then is it considered such a benefit for the lightning sorc to have an infinity, more so than a cold or fire based sorc?
Sirpoopsalot's guide (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658719) contains the answers to exactly these questions.
To summarize:
1. The Conviction Aura and Lower Resist Curse are the only effects that can break a monster's immunity.
2. The Conviction Aura on Infinity works whether you or your merc carries the weapon. The "-XX% Lightning Resistance" only applies to your spells if you are carrying Infinity yourself. These synergize quite nicely on breakable lightning immune monsters.
3. Virtually all lightning immune monsters you can encounter in the game are breakable by Infinity's Conviction Aura. Some fire immunes are breakable, and virtually no cold immunes are breakable. Furthermore, on non-immune monsters, the effect of Cold Mastery is redundant with Conviction, so there's no significant advantage of using Infinity on a Cold Sorc whatsoever.
baldanders
22-07-2011, 17:04
See, that part is not true. Most enemies don't need 10k+ damage to kill.
When I suggest a build, it isn't theory crafting. It works. I can run EVERY area in the game, and I do it fast. Yes, you can't just hold a mouse button down and snooze. I never promised that you COULD do that. What I promised was a fast build that could do the pits AND ancient tunnels AND whatever else you wanted to do.
I'm sure it works. All kinds of builds work once you have endgame gear and are pretty high level. Doesn't make them optimal though.
And the truth is that you do have good gear. Full Tal Rasha's is very good. Infinity is very good. That full Tal's is cheap on bnet doesn't change the fact that it is good gear, as you yourself have pointed out.
The thing is that a dual-tree sorc with much worse gear than you have can also handle every area of the game. A dual-tree sorc with the gear you have can handle areas more safely and quickly than a tri-element build. A lot of stuff in Hell does take crazy damage to kill, if you want to kill it as quickly as possible, particularly with more players in the game.
The faster you kill, the more drops you generate, and the less time the mobs have to kill you. Individual dual immunes are not much of a threat- it is the packs with nasty mods that you have to watch out for. The faster you can wipe them out the safer you will be.
If you like playing tri-element then I certainly wouldn't tell you not to. But it's not optimal. If you think it is then I think you are going to have to resign yourself to the fact that it is a somewhat eccentric view, at least.
Now that I have infinity, I can do baal and chaos with no deaths at all and very quickly. It's almost the same speed as a hammerdin honestly. What your saying is just flat out wrong. If you were right, I would have spec'd to something else a long time ago.
Again, if you like playing a tri-elementalist with an Infinity I wouldn't tell you not to. But Infinity is sort of wasted on that build. Full Lite would be a much better choice, from the point of view of optimality. You really want to stack up the damage against broken immunes, because Conviction only works at 20% against them, so they will still have high resistance after being broken. You also want gear that can further lower resistances after breaking the immunities.
I don't know the exact math, but it appears that lightning immunes are easier to break and cold is the hardest. I'm not sure why, but I remember reading about this a long time ago. Essentially, a cold sorc using infinity gets better damage (there is no reason not to use infinity regardless of which sorc you are using), but you won't break immunities with it.
It has to do with how high the natural resistances of immunes are. Most Lite immunes are just barely over 100%. Cold immunes are much higher. Fire immunes fall in the middle. I believe that the order in which immunities are applied as mods also has something to do with it.
As LordC points out Cold sorcs don't benefit much from Infinity as it is redundant with Cold Mastery. The upshot is that you can generally break Lite immunes, occasionally break Fire immunes, and pretty much never break Cold immunes. Infinity will help your Lite or Fire damage against non-immunes, but won't do much for your Cold damage if you have high CM.
There is a certain amount of math involved, but you don't have to do it, in detail, to get the gist. A very general idea of how the math works out is enough to resolve questions about skills and equipment 90% of the time. For the other 10% you can either work out the math in detail, search the forums (not very much under the sun is new in DII at this point,) or ask. But the gist of the math is usually enough to answer questions one way or another.
Finalnoob
28-07-2011, 22:31
would a 2 tree sorc be faster than, say, a javazon of equal equipment in running these?
Ofc. You said with equal equipment and then i conclude that you mean this:
No infinity and no enigma. The sorc will be faster. Due to the teleport factor.
Now if you include those two pieces then we can talk. But then. Why do you play a duel specced sorc in the first place?:)
And you dont play a sorc specced for orb and lightning with infinity, ever. Why would you.
I don't know about you but I absolutely hate skipping mobs. If one of the special mobs happens to be one of the lightning immune archers with lightning enchanted, you won't break it with infinity and will have to watch your merc poke it, wasting time. If that same mob spawns with both light/cold enchanted, infinity will break the cold immunity and you can nuke it with orb just fine due to cold mastery (not a single point is needed with infinity and tals set, which saves you skill points for other lightning skills.)
Once you have infinity equipped, the damage difference between pure lightning and lightining/Orb is negligible (It doesn't really matter if you're dealing 50k max damage versus 30k with a similar gear setup; mobs will die just as fast) and the secondary element (In this case, frozen orb) saves a ton of time.
LeaTelamon
12-08-2011, 21:12
It honestly depends on what you want to do in the game. Chaos runs? MF Baal runs? Trying out unconventional builds? Running Pits/Ancient Tunnels? I specialized my first sorc this ladder into pure fire to easily run Hell Andy and Meph. I have the measly mana pool of less than 450. With static field to 50% Meph dies when my mana is empty (you do the math, it takes maybe 10-15 seconds). Andy is a joke, I don't think I'll be able to do Andy in Hell again without being fire.
Problems with this build: I can't do Chaos. Since I can't do Chaos I can't do anything past Chaos. The reason why I can't do Chaos is because every other mob is fire immune. I can't do Arcane Sanctuary either. But I'm fine with it. I'm thinking of making a bowazon/fishymancer for the areas I cannot do on my sorc. I also found a perfect HoZ the other day so the idea of making a hammerdin suddenly became very realistic (without Enigma, though). Some people feel the need to do EVERYTHING on ONE character. Others rather specialize into one thing and are very good at it but can't do other things and do other things with other characters. Both options ARE viable. In terms of gameplay invested I hardly doubt it actually matters that much, in the end. Yes, more games you run the more items you find. But the longer you stay in a game the more you get out of the game (so to speak). So ultimately it all boils down to taste.
I don't use Tal's set currently on my sorc because I couldn't afford it. I found most of the gear I am using on my own including a mid Vipermagi, Magefist, Grim Shield with 12% ed 2 socket Rhyme, Goldwrap, Nagel and 2+ Fire skill +29 mf and some lit resistance rare amulet. I traded for Occulus, Shako and War Travs for the sum of a mal (um for Occu and Shako, um for my War Travs and probably pul for my second Nagel).
I have no problems whatsoever doing what I'm doing and more importantly, I do it fast. Since I am MF'ing, not doing Pits or similar, I sacrifice some damage (mostly fcr) for MF and I'm perfectly fine with it. Would I have found that perfect HoZ without all that MF? Possbly. The two Gheed's I found in a row? Possibly. And so forth. Bottomline being: it helped. Being on a budget and finding most of my own gear allowed me to instead invest into a low torch and buy good merc items for what I'm doing.
Sometimes I rather prefer more even if it means a bit less if you look at the individual parts, but the sum may sometimes be better if not the same. Could I get a Spirit shield to hit my 105% breakpoint? Yes. But I don't have to. The argument just goes around - because it all depends on your wants and needs in this game.
I don't know about you but I absolutely hate skipping mobs. If one of the special mobs happens to be one of the lightning immune archers with lightning enchanted, you won't break it with infinity and will have to watch your merc poke it, wasting time. If that same mob spawns with both light/cold enchanted, infinity will break the cold immunity and you can nuke it with orb just fine due to cold mastery (not a single point is needed with infinity and tals set, which saves you skill points for other lightning skills.)
Once you have infinity equipped, the damage difference between pure lightning and lightining/Orb is negligible (It doesn't really matter if you're dealing 50k max damage versus 30k with a similar gear setup; mobs will die just as fast) and the secondary element (In this case, frozen orb) saves a ton of time.
I dont mind skipping mobs really. I dont do it, but i dont mind doing it. Now to your point about orb. My personal experience is that you dont encounter lightning immunes all that often. Come to think about it its just very very rare. (Niathlah and lord de sies springs to mind).
I dont get it why you would use those points in a element that you dont use 99% of the time you are playing just to kill that single mob faster. I would rather use a well equipped max damage merc that can kill it almost as fast as that single tree and then maximise your damage. So that you save a ton of time is just not right.
I do however agree with the fact that a 30k max damage lightning is not that much slower then a 50k one. However its still faster. And that time more then makes up for the time you are "losing" on that single lightning immune mob.
This is really the tri element specc vs dual specc discussion with mystic all over again. The essencial is that you can cast a spell that does max dmg and choose not to do it because you want another spell that you hardly use and then lowering the overall damage. It works ofc, but as badlanders said. its not optimal.
It honestly depends on what you want to do in the game. Chaos runs? MF Baal runs? Trying out unconventional builds? Running Pits/Ancient Tunnels? I specialized my first sorc this ladder into pure fire to easily run Hell Andy and Meph. I have the measly mana pool of less than 450. With static field to 50% Meph dies when my mana is empty (you do the math, it takes maybe 10-15 seconds). Andy is a joke, I don't think I'll be able to do Andy in Hell again without being fire.
Problems with this build: I can't do Chaos. Since I can't do Chaos I can't do anything past Chaos. The reason why I can't do Chaos is because every other mob is fire immune. I can't do Arcane Sanctuary either. But I'm fine with it. I'm thinking of making a bowazon/fishymancer for the areas I cannot do on my sorc. I also found a perfect HoZ the other day so the idea of making a hammerdin suddenly became very realistic (without Enigma, though). Some people feel the need to do EVERYTHING on ONE character. Others rather specialize into one thing and are very good at it but can't do other things and do other things with other characters. Both options ARE viable. In terms of gameplay invested I hardly doubt it actually matters that much, in the end. Yes, more games you run the more items you find. But the longer you stay in a game the more you get out of the game (so to speak). So ultimately it all boils down to taste.
I don't use Tal's set currently on my sorc because I couldn't afford it. I found most of the gear I am using on my own including a mid Vipermagi, Magefist, Grim Shield with 12% ed 2 socket Rhyme, Goldwrap, Nagel and 2+ Fire skill +29 mf and some lit resistance rare amulet. I traded for Occulus, Shako and War Travs for the sum of a mal (um for Occu and Shako, um for my War Travs and probably pul for my second Nagel).
I have no problems whatsoever doing what I'm doing and more importantly, I do it fast. Since I am MF'ing, not doing Pits or similar, I sacrifice some damage (mostly fcr) for MF and I'm perfectly fine with it. Would I have found that perfect HoZ without all that MF? Possbly. The two Gheed's I found in a row? Possibly. And so forth. Bottomline being: it helped. Being on a budget and finding most of my own gear allowed me to instead invest into a low torch and buy good merc items for what I'm doing.
Sometimes I rather prefer more even if it means a bit less if you look at the individual parts, but the sum may sometimes be better if not the same. Could I get a Spirit shield to hit my 105% breakpoint? Yes. But I don't have to. The argument just goes around - because it all depends on your wants and needs in this game.
I agree with the essensials in your post. What i dont agree with is the MF part. Why would you load up with mf? I dont get people doing that. Especially people that start from scratch. Instead of running meph i would much rather run countess and load up with low runes and trade that on the forums here. The wealth you get from crafting packs, packs of low runes, pgems, pamys, prubys, keys etc more then exceed the wealth you get from finding that one item you can trade.
I don't use Tal's set currently on my sorc because I couldn't afford it.
And this just proves my point. If you had run countess instead of meph you could have bought yourself the tal set, sojs, and mabye a infintiy for the amount of time it took you to get a shako, war travelers, nagels, HoZ etc.
It honestly depends on what you want to do in the game. Chaos runs? MF Baal runs? Trying out unconventional builds? Running Pits/Ancient Tunnels?
My goal is to do run all those areas, and do all those things. With the best possible equipment that i can get my hands on. Running meph and andy just dont cut it then.
I say light sorc with infinity merc will get the job done easily.
I dont mind skipping mobs really. I dont do it, but i dont mind doing it. Now to your point about orb. My personal experience is that you dont encounter lightning immunes all that often. Come to think about it its just very very rare. (Niathlah and lord de sies springs to mind).
I dont get it why you would use those points in a element that you dont use 99% of the time you are playing just to kill that single mob faster. I would rather use a well equipped max damage merc that can kill it almost as fast as that single tree and then maximise your damage. So that you save a ton of time is just not right.
I do however agree with the fact that a 30k max damage lightning is not that much slower then a 50k one. However its still faster. And that time more then makes up for the time you are "losing" on that single lightning immune mob.
This is really the tri element specc vs dual specc discussion with mystic all over again. The essencial is that you can cast a spell that does max dmg and choose not to do it because you want another spell that you hardly use and then lowering the overall damage. It works ofc, but as badlanders said. its not optimal.
The point is, we're not talking about nihlathak or lord deseis. we're talking about the pit and ancient tunnels. If you've ever run the place at all, it's very common to see archer packs. No matter the variety, archer packs are always lightning immune. If you get a "special" archer pack with a boss that has the mod lightning enchanted, your max damage lightning sorc isn't killing it. She will have to stop and watch a merc poke at it, or you will teleport past it.That is a fact, and it's not up for debate.
And yes, I'm well aware that I'm giving up the "max damage" but the point is, as far as the mobs that inhabit the pit/at goes, there's no difference. The mobs there have an average of 5-6k health. So if whether you're dealing 1-30k max or 1-50k max, your average damage will still one shot those mobs.
Meanwhile, there's not a single naturally cold-immune mob inside ancient tunnels, which makes orb ideal for it (alongside with blizzard, but blizzard isn't viable for pit).
It works, AND it's more efficient. But only as far as the pit and at goes, which is the point of this discussion (refer to topic title, best pit/at runner).
I'm not disputing that a pure lightning with infinity sorc is better for overall mf runs. But it's not better for running pit and AT, which is what the original poster was asking about.
If you get a "special" archer pack with a boss that has the mod lightning enchanted, your max damage lightning sorc isn't killing it. She will have to stop and watch a merc poke at it, or you will teleport past it.That is a fact, and it's not up for debate.
I was talking about the whole game in general. Including the AT/Pit. The archer packs, even the "spesial" boss one goes down so crazy fast that i dont even pay attention to them. Even if they have a immune boss. And i never skip them.
And the fact STILL remains that this does not occur that often. Not in the AT/Pit or anywhere else.
And yes, I'm well aware that I'm giving up the "max damage" but the point is, as far as the mobs that inhabit the pit/at goes, there's no difference. The mobs there have an average of 5-6k health. So if whether you're dealing 1-30k max or 1-50k max, your average damage will still one shot those mobs.
Meanwhile, there's not a single naturally cold-immune mob inside ancient tunnels, which makes orb ideal for it (alongside with blizzard, but blizzard isn't viable for pit).
It works, AND it's more efficient. But only as far as the pit and at goes, which is the point of this discussion (refer to topic title, best pit/at runner).
I'm not disputing that a pure lightning with infinity sorc is better for overall mf runs. But it's not better for running pit and AT, which is what the original poster was asking about.
I dont know, mabye i have been lucky with the amount of immune mobs when i play. I will give you that i was talking about the game in general when i was thinking about the amount of mobs that are immune. That do include the pits and AT.
You are much better of to just play a 200 fcr sorc with a max damage merc and do the run faster. You cannot escape the fact that you are speccing for that one special mob.
We wount agree and just have to agree to disagree.
And to illustrate what i am talking about:
An example: I just did a test run and used 110 teleports to clear the pits on a known map. (i did sum this down so if you dont hit the entrance and dont clear it in the best possible way every time you use more teleports. But lets disregard that for now).
Lets say two simular sorcs. One with full lightning and one specced orb/lightning. Both did the same pattern and uses the same amount of teleports. Both encounter a lightning immune super archer mob. The lightning sorc uses her merc to kill it and uses a wooping 5 second to kill it. The orb/lightning sorc uses 0,1 second to kill it in one orb.
Lets say the full lightning sorc is a 200 fcr sorc. This sorc uses 110 frames less then the orb/lightning sorc. It is 25 frames in one second and 110 frames is then 4.4 seconds. The orb/lightning sorc uses a wooping 0,3 seconds less then the full lightning sorc. I am not even including the frames you use when you cast spells or when you are searching for the AT.
Now, lets look at the damage the full lightning sorc's merc is doing. It uses a infinity with an average damage of 3k and has a attack speed that makes him jab every 6 frame, 4.1 times per second doing 12300 damage per second. In 5 seconds it does 61500 dmg. I am not even counting crushing blow. And this is a AVERAGE merc.
LeaTelamon
17-08-2011, 23:59
And this just proves my point. If you had run countess instead of meph you could have bought yourself the tal set, sojs, and mabye a infintiy for the amount of time it took you to get a shako, war travelers, nagels, HoZ etc.
The items I traded for were cheaper than Tal's. Tal's go for ist+, mostly ist + mal, sometimes close to 2 ist (I don't agree with those on the forums who pc it around ist, it's way too low if you check what people sell individual pieces for) on Europe ladder, and the items I traded for go for at most an ist total. And yes, I did run Countess. A LOT. But no one wanted to buy my runes and since no one wanted to buy my runes, I had to do Andy and Meph to find items to trade.
I have a whole account with runes that don't sell, at least not without pgems and jewels as crafter packs. But to be able to afford those gems and jewels to trade away to crafters I had to buy additional wealth. Focusing on Andy and Meph alone gave me more time to do these bosses per hour which equals to more uniques and set items over time rather than finding yet another tal rune from Countess. Sure, Countess can drop ist in hell, but in all these years I've played I've never seen her do it. The highest rune I think I've gotten from her is pul or something.
Now, lets look at the damage the full lightning sorc's merc is doing. It uses a infinity with an average damage of 3k and has a attack speed that makes him jab every 6 frame, 4.1 times per second doing 12300 damage per second. In 5 seconds it does 61500 dmg. I am not even counting crushing blow. And this is a AVERAGE merc.
Sure. But if you're running a lit sorc with 200 fcr and an act 2 merc with Infy, why the hell are you doing Pits/Tunnels/whatever in the first place? That time could better be spent clearing Chaos Sanctuary and Baal's Throne room.
Orb/fireball is the best mfer for a budget. With an act 2 merc with insight. There isnt anything you can't kill. Enemy fire immune use orb. Enemy cold immune use fireball. An enemy cant have 3 immunities so if the champion is immune to fire and ice just kill everything around it and static it down and let your merc finish it.
The items I traded for were cheaper than Tal's. Tal's go for ist+, mostly ist + mal, sometimes close to 2 ist (I don't agree with those on the forums who pc it around ist, it's way too low if you check what people sell individual pieces for) on Europe ladder, and the items I traded for go for at most an ist total. And yes, I did run Countess. A LOT. But no one wanted to buy my runes and since no one wanted to buy my runes, I had to do Andy and Meph to find items to trade.
Full Tal's goes for a ist. The amulet goes for um-mal the armour goes for mal. The rest goes for pgems, at best. You can disagree how much you want but that is a fact. When i started again this ladder i saved and cubed every flawless gem that i could find and quickly got 40 of them. I traded them online for a ist. I then created a game just after that trade for tal's and within 5 min i had it.
IF there is so much price diffrence as you say it is on here vs online. Why dont you exploit it?? buy cheap here and sell online?
You are saying you ran countess alot. I took a look at your offering thread. You are offering odd numbers of everything from 3 (io) to 27ish something of the others. This is wrong. The typical mindset of crafters is that they want the runes in pack worth a ist. Example: 40 tals, 20 rals, 20 pamys etc. The only time you can sell odd numbers like that if you have lets say 76 (over a ist or two worth in total). Take a look at the price guide to see the amount i am talking about. Dont get too hung up in total crafting packs (40/40/40) etc.
I have a whole account with runes that don't sell, at least not without pgems and jewels as crafter packs. But to be able to afford those gems and jewels to trade away to crafters I had to buy additional wealth. Focusing on Andy and Meph alone gave me more time to do these bosses per hour which equals to more uniques and set items over time rather than finding yet another tal rune from Countess. Sure, Countess can drop ist in hell, but in all these years I've played I've never seen her do it. The highest rune I think I've gotten from her is pul or something.
I have been lucky this season. I have gotten 2 ists and 2 mals from countess. But the amount of runs i have put in is immense. My last offering of runes i offerd 80 rals (4 ists worth). all found from the countess. Read about amount of runes in the first quote to see what i think about this.
You say that you want to find uniques and set items from bosses. Imo this mindset is outdated after the runedrop increase. Take a look at the sell value of those items. Everyone has them. There are just a few good uniques that sells from mal+ In your thread you are selling them for pgems.. Is that the way to get rich?
Sure. But if you're running a lit sorc with 200 fcr and an act 2 merc with Infy, why the hell are you doing Pits/Tunnels/whatever in the first place? That time could better be spent clearing Chaos Sanctuary and Baal's Throne room.
Read the whole discussion before you comment..
LeaTelamon
18-08-2011, 22:14
You can disagree how much you want but that is a fact.
I don't see it as a fact when prices are fluctuating. I see traders on Europe selling the headpiece from pgems to pul to um. I have never seen the orb go less than pul. I've seen people demand ist for 15% belt. Anyway, it is a pointless discussion about the price tag. Even you value it higher than ist in your valuation, assuming amulet goes for mal and armor for mal.
IF there is so much price diffrence as you say it is on here vs online. Why dont you exploit it?? buy cheap here and sell online?
To be able to exploit a price difference you must first be able to invest. I couldn't do that early on.
You are saying you ran countess alot. I took a look at your offering thread. You are offering odd numbers of everything from 3 (io) to 27ish something of the others. This is wrong. The typical mindset of crafters is that they want the runes in pack worth a ist. Example: 40 tals, 20 rals, 20 pamys etc. The only time you can sell odd numbers like that if you have lets say 76 (over a ist or two worth in total). Take a look at the price guide to see the amount i am talking about. Dont get too hung up in total crafting packs (40/40/40) etc.
1. The thread is old. I stopped maintaining it and reopened a new one yesterday (you even posted today yet failed to see the new thread?) with runes omitted. 2. I never said they had to buy in odd numbers but I want to make clear of my complete stock. If I am offering 23 ral it means crafters can of course take 20 ral, not all 23 of them. I am specifically stating people are free to mix and mash.
You say that you want to find uniques and set items from bosses. Imo this mindset is outdated after the runedrop increase. Take a look at the sell value of those items. Everyone has them. There are just a few good uniques that sells from mal+ In your thread you are selling them for pgems.. Is that the way to get rich?
I have not really been blessed much with the increase in runedrops, and I also played a lot in single player prior on playing ladder this season and I've never seen anything above um drop. And frankly, low level runes are in my opinion the hardest to sell. If you look at crafters and what they demand, pgems are their bottlenecks, after that jewels, NOT runes. There is another guy in another thread on Europe offering 20 or so hels and 40 sols. It wasn't as if people rushed to his thread to get runes from him, because people are saturated on runes. (When some guy offered 20+ pame however, people did rush.) They drop too easily as opposed to pgems and jewels, since anyone can farm runes from Countess and she has a high probability to drop crafter runes. There is no real equivalent for jewels and pgems unless you run Hellforge a lot, but that is of course much more complicated to do on ladder unless you are intent on rushing a lot and take Hellforge as payment.
Again, the thread is outdated. Also, a majority of the items never sold. Further, I followed the European price guide. If you think some of the items I offered for pgems were worth mal+, then maybe you disagree with the price guide. Bottomline being - your idea of making wealth did not work for me.
Read the whole discussion before you comment..
Chaos Sanctuary and Baal's Throne room are equal runner ups as mf targets. My point being that numbercrunching aside, theory is rarely practice.
I don't see it as a fact when prices are fluctuating.
I agree, i was abit harsh when i said it was a fact. Of course prices are fluctuating but your prices are abit high. And the tal set are traded for ist.
I see traders on Europe selling the headpiece from pgems to pul to um. I have never seen the orb go less than pul. I've seen people demand ist for 15% belt. Anyway, it is a pointless discussion about the price tag. Even you value it higher than ist in your valuation, assuming amulet goes for mal and armor for mal.
I see this all the time. Even if there are several games up like "o tal set N 2 ist" does not mean it is the price for the tal set. If you make a game "O perfect HoZ N 200 ist" does not make the price for it 200 ist! You say you have seen people demand a ist for a 15% tal belt. Sure! they are entitled to demand what ever they want. It does not mean that they will find a buyer that wants to pay a ist for that belt. I cannot make this clearer.
To be able to exploit a price difference you must first be able to invest. I couldn't do that early on.
Why dont you do it now then?
1. The thread is old. I stopped maintaining it and reopened a new one yesterday (you even posted today yet failed to see the new thread?) with runes omitted. 2. I never said they had to buy in odd numbers but I want to make clear of my complete stock. If I am offering 23 ral it means crafters can of course take 20 ral, not all 23 of them. I am specifically stating people are free to mix and mash.
1) I of course used your latest thread.. wtf.
2) People dont want to mix and mash. They want bulk trades. They dont want odd numbers like you are presenting in your thread.
I have not really been blessed much with the increase in runedrops, and I also played a lot in single player prior on playing ladder this season and I've never seen anything above um drop. And frankly, low level runes are in my opinion the hardest to sell. If you look at crafters and what they demand, pgems are their bottlenecks, after that jewels, NOT runes. There is another guy in another thread on Europe offering 20 or so hels and 40 sols. It wasn't as if people rushed to his thread to get runes from him, because people are saturated on runes. (When some guy offered 20+ pame however, people did rush.) They drop too easily as opposed to pgems and jewels, since anyone can farm runes from Countess and she has a high probability to drop crafter runes. There is no real equivalent for jewels and pgems unless you run Hellforge a lot, but that is of course much more complicated to do on ladder unless you are intent on rushing a lot and take Hellforge as payment.
I know exactly what crafters are after. I have acumulated enough wealth to start crafting myself. I am looking at this from a crafters perspective. A crafter dont want to "mix and mash" they want to bulk up on certain items. Especially if they want to try to craft/make a certain item. They dont want to buy 13 of this and 5 of this. They want solid numbers.
Again, the thread is outdated. Also, a majority of the items never sold. Further, I followed the European price guide. If you think some of the items I offered for pgems were worth mal+, then maybe you disagree with the price guide. Bottomline being - your idea of making wealth did not work for me.
And again, I of course used your last thread. The keyword here is patience. You seem to lack it. I am not trying to attack you or anything. If you think that that is what i am doing then, i am sorry, but you are wrong. I am trying to explain what worked for me. And i do have the best of the best now. Coh, Enigma, Infinity, Hoto, Cta, Phoenix etc. All from trading what i wrote in my first post. Keys, packs/bulks of low runes, crafting packs and gems. The only rune worth mention that i have found is a Ber rune.
I have not traded a single unique. I just stash them on a mule or even just dont bother picking them up. It did work for me. Not only this season but also last season. I used to think like you do and mf like crazy but i always ended up with mules full of items that people did not want. So i had to shift my focus on what people whats.
Chaos Sanctuary and Baal's Throne room are equal runner ups as mf targets. My point being that numbercrunching aside, theory is rarely practice.
And to teaspoon this. Read the whole discusssion between me and Norrit before you answer on a tiny bit on the answer from me to him. Noone is disputing what you are writing but you are jumping into a discussion that as been going on for several posts and commenting on a just a fraction of a answer. To answer you. The theory is to illustrate my own experience of the practical side of it because the discussion was going in circles.
This is my final answer to this WAY of topic disussion. If you are still unsure, or just want to argue more. PM me instead.
Noite Escura
24-08-2011, 19:58
Adressing the OP original question: The best Pit sorc runner IMO is Meteorb. The best AT runner is pure Blizzard. But i went for a different thing this season: Orb/Fireball, meaning Orb synergized with Ice Bolt and Fireball (syn by Fire Bolt) for immunes. Surprinsigly I found it not to be very much worse than Meterob for Pits and almost as good as Blizzer for AT. Of course I'm talking about players 1 setting.
P.S. Mrjones beat me to it
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.