View Full Version : So... Why to stay in Endgame?
Let me first get something clear: This is mostly a personal question, understand that opinions may differ here so let's not start a war like we're accustomed to...
So, I've been seeing a lot of threads about how Endgame should be, why is Endgame being forgotten, why aren't followers in Endgame, etc, etc...
My question is, once you reach actual Endgame (defeating Hell itself), what's the reason to keep the char in there? I mean, IMHO once I finish a game (and even before I finish a game) it's time to start again, with a new build, a new char, etc. Call me casual if you wish, but I truly don't understand the need of keeping the character once all is done...
So, what inspires you to be an Endgame player? What am I getting wrong?
yovargas
11-06-2011, 15:38
As someone who, once Hell was beaten, started over, I have no idea why people kept going in D2. :P
In D3, however, arena fights could get me to stick around.
Neinball
11-06-2011, 16:00
For me at least it's that urge to be as powerful as you can, solo stuff that isn't supposed to be soloable and other feats of bad assery. I actually have a much harder time letting go of the character and re-rolling a new one like you do.
This. Completing the character build is just as much, if not more, of a game as playing to final boss.
This. Completing the character build is just as much, if not more, of a game as playing to final boss.
+1.
I like viewing/using all the skills at their best, and 'starting over' is all well and good but you have already completed that aspect of the game (admittedly not with the same char, but you know the story, how to solve the puzzles etc.).
I consider both of these things (completing the game, and maxing a character) important things to achieve in a game you like.
diablosminion
11-06-2011, 19:35
I like to PvP so you have to keep on building up a char and getting stronger and better. I do like re-rolling mind you, its just i like PvP more :whistling:
The PvP is the biggest thing for me, for D2 anyway, because i am always trying to be the best, its a terrible curse, and PvP lets you know how good or not you are fairly quickly.
Apocalypse
11-06-2011, 19:55
i am the type of person who likes making new characters but i like making them with hand me down items. i will have lots of characters and the only use they will get over 60 will be to find some items. i hope for some good end game content to change it but for me grinding was the worst form of end game ever so i never did it
I believe Jay touched on this during the open Q&A at BlizzCon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKe8GqABJ_c&feature=related#t=4M47)
As for me, I'm a mix of both thanks to World of WarCraft. I want to pursue obtaining better and better gear even after hitting max level, but I also like to every now and then create and screw around on new characters to break up that monotony. Sometimes those new characters turn into character I keep and play to the very end again with, but usually not.
Lifeless
12-06-2011, 06:18
There will be far more random events and daily quests than in D2, which will keep things interesting (at least for the first year, lol) but I think mainly what I'll be doing is farming PvP gear and completing a Legendary grail, but there's also crafting recipes and lore that you can find.
because using 7 high level, fully runed abilities with awesome gear fighting tough monsters is more fun than starting over where you have one skill and are fighting easy monsters.
Well, no, it's not. It's all about the journey.
permaximum
12-06-2011, 08:10
Simple. Open World PVP. But arenas in D3 will be too boring.
Endgame is overrated thanks to a billion alts people make. Don't need endgame in Diablo. If people want endgame content then perhaps a mmo would suite them best ?
End game might not be "necessary" given the ability to make a billion alts, but it will probably be the difference between an improved Diablo and an evolved Diablo. MMO style end game implementation tends to be terrible, so none of it in D3
Apocalypse
12-06-2011, 20:02
End game might not be "necessary" given the ability to make a billion alts, but it will probably be the difference between an improved Diablo and an evolved Diablo. MMO style end game implementation tends to be terrible, so none of it in D3
my problem with mmo end game is the requirement for larger groups. if wow was always 5 man dungeons that just got harder i would be happy. gear up through tier one dungeons to move on to tier 2 dungeons and so on. i would be fine with something like that in d3 but dont think it will be anything like that
my problem with mmo end game is the requirement for larger groups. if wow was always 5 man dungeons that just got harder i would be happy. gear up through tier one dungeons to move on to tier 2 dungeons and so on. i would be fine with something like that in d3 but dont think it will be anything like that
My problem with MMO end game is there isn't an MMO that interests me.
If there was an MMO with randomised loot, randomised content and small group play (say 5 players) I'd be playing it. Unfortunately Hellgate: London was a disaster.
So Diablo 3 is the next closest thing.
MMO's I've played have the end game content instanced, so it is hardly MM. More like just multiplayer with a massively multiplayer town and auction house.
Apocalypse
12-06-2011, 22:21
My problem with MMO end game is there isn't an MMO that interests me.
If there was an MMO with randomised loot, randomised content and small group play (say 5 players) I'd be playing it. Unfortunately Hellgate: London was a disaster.
So Diablo 3 is the next closest thing.
random loot is awesome and i have to agree, without it in mmo games makes them get boring fast for me. i enjoyed wow but i built my 10 (no shamen cause die horde) max level characters and quit.
hellfurion
12-06-2011, 23:37
Achievements. (if they choose to implement it)
Basically I want my character to stand out than the other character, PVP or PVE wise. Even if it meant that I am only gonna be rewarded with trivial cosmetic stuff like a change in appearance, I'd still do it. I want to push myself to the limit and see what can I achieve with a single main character.
Also, the economy is another factor for me. As of now, we are still aren't sure of the type of trading system that we will have in-game, but since there aren't going to be any Bind on Equip gears, you can pretty much magic find for loots and sell them. Having lots of amazing gears and items in your stash (which is shared to your other characters) couldn't be anything but useful.
I believe they said they'll shoot for more cross-character achievements in this game, seeing how disposable characters will be and that having achievements tied to a single character ala World of WarCraft isn't very good.
Apocalypse
13-06-2011, 00:17
i believe i heard that also. i expect to see just about all achievements to be account based and not char.
Kblavkalash
14-06-2011, 11:44
As long as end-game is challenging I will be playing it. Even if there would be no loot (which is impossible) or no experience gain I would enjoy end-game.
FletVictus
14-06-2011, 17:58
I'm sure achievements will be account based, mainly because of sc2. It's extremely likely there will be class specific achievements though, so you would have to do those at least 5 times. Also guessing from sc2 achieves, achievements won't make much of an end game, you could get every single achieve in sc2 in a day of playing, except for the ones that requires XX number of games, and those are just grindy (but easy grindy so not hard endgame stuff) Just guessing.
For me it's cyclical. I want to build new awesome characters. So, I want to get new awesome items to deck out those new characters. So, I need powerful characters to kill lots of monsters in order to try to get those awesome items or get other items to trade for the awesome items. The new awesome characters I make usually can get more items and enable me to build more new awesome characters.
Usually at some point I decide to make such a decked out character that it takes too much effort or the ladder got reset and I'd lose interest.
Apocalypse
14-06-2011, 19:38
I'm sure achievements will be account based, mainly because of sc2. It's extremely likely there will be class specific achievements though, so you would have to do those at least 5 times. Also guessing from sc2 achieves, achievements won't make much of an end game, you could get every single achieve in sc2 in a day of playing, except for the ones that requires XX number of games, and those are just grindy (but easy grindy so not hard endgame stuff) Just guessing.
i would like to see the achievements more on par with wow. with a few exceptions i really like the wow achievements as they kept me playing a game past what i normally would
Achievements should be interesting, and will hopefull be account-based, with some cross-character achievements in there.
However, I do recall either Jay or Bashiok saying that they're also aiming for actual content that doesn't involve item or xp farming/grinding.
I like a good mix of endgame and having a good solid core game. Playing around on a fully leveled character with the best gear is fun and I like to reroll new characters as well. It really just depends on what I'm in the mood for on the praticular day.
Wolfpaq777
15-06-2011, 14:37
To become exceptionally wealthy.
Apocalypse
15-06-2011, 17:44
i guess the best answer is "because D3 is more fun than any of the other junk games out there".
what other reason to stay in a game than its fun?
Dnttryme
15-06-2011, 18:45
I like to PvP so you have to keep on building up a char and getting stronger and better. I do like re-rolling mind you, its just i like PvP more :whistling:
The PvP is the biggest thing for me, for D2 anyway, because i am always trying to be the best, its a terrible curse, and PvP lets you know how good or not you are fairly quickly.
This is it for me as well. I think I will be playing monk as my first class, and I plan on PvPing once I reach max level. I will reroll another class eventually to also PvP with, but I cant see myself playing the game over again with the same class just to have a different build. I might play through the game with each class once, but not the same class.
Jednowlosy
16-06-2011, 20:39
i guess the best answer is "because D3 is more fun than any of the other junk games out there".
what other reason to stay in a game than its fun?
Precisely.
Personally I enjoy the carnage. yeah, killing stuff. I don't care whether I level up or if there's a story-driven quest to be done or not. I just enjoy bashing skulls in, over and over again. And it's more fun with a character than CAN bash those skulls in, easily, because of the high level, AoE skills and great gear.
In other words, I'm all for endgame. Just to run around the world killing stuff around. If it's half as fun as killing stuff in Diablo1, it will be a fantastic game.
Think of it: D1 had crappy progression, no grinding and nearly no epic items at all (unless you consider Emerald Ring of Zodiac THAT awesome..), and it was awesome and fun. Why? Because killing stuff was so satisfying, you could do it over and over and over again....
PvP is my end game. It a bigger challenge than monsters can give, and between sore losers and good duelers, it's a ton more fun.
Precisely.
Personally I enjoy the carnage. yeah, killing stuff. I don't care whether I level up or if there's a story-driven quest to be done or not. I just enjoy bashing skulls in, over and over again. And it's more fun with a character than CAN bash those skulls in, easily, because of the high level, AoE skills and great gear.
In other words, I'm all for endgame. Just to run around the world killing stuff around. If it's half as fun as killing stuff in Diablo1, it will be a fantastic game.
Think of it: D1 had crappy progression, no grinding and nearly no epic items at all (unless you consider Emerald Ring of Zodiac THAT awesome..), and it was awesome and fun. Why? Because killing stuff was so satisfying, you could do it over and over and over again....
Exactly right. This has always been what Diablo is about, killing stuff for fun!:thumbup:
yovargas
17-06-2011, 00:52
Precisely.
Personally I enjoy the carnage. yeah, killing stuff. I don't care whether I level up or if there's a story-driven quest to be done or not. I just enjoy bashing skulls in, over and over again. And it's more fun with a character than CAN bash those skulls in, easily, because of the high level, AoE skills and great gear.
In other words, I'm all for endgame. Just to run around the world killing stuff around. If it's half as fun as killing stuff in Diablo1, it will be a fantastic game.
Think of it: D1 had crappy progression, no grinding and nearly no epic items at all (unless you consider Emerald Ring of Zodiac THAT awesome..), and it was awesome and fun. Why? Because killing stuff was so satisfying, you could do it over and over and over again....
Blizz reps have said so many times stuff like "Diablo is all about the loot!" that I sometimes worry that they forget this. NO, the loot is a means to an end - smashing monsters. All the loot in the world doesn't matter if I don't enjoy the brawl. Making that brawl exciting should always be priority #1. Everything else is secondary. I hope they remember this...
I hope they can bring in the end game some super unique bosses standing out of the main story line. Make them super rare and Power them beyond the final boss. Only the best player can challenge them and then we will have our time killed in end game.
Everyone will play the game differently and you should know that's what's great about it.
You can try to beef up your character for pvp, mf, helping others, making gold, bossing, or starting a new character. If you start a new character than you can use equipment it finds for your new char so it will be easier to play.
Everyone will play the game differently and you should know that's what's great about it.
You can try to beef up your character for pvp, mf, helping others, making gold, bossing, or starting a new character. If you start a new character than you can use equipment it finds for your new char so it will be easier to play.
Before the game releases I have thought about my future characters over and over and I think I will eventually level all 5 characters. Witch doctor for gold find, Wizard for magic find, Demon Hunter for solo, Monk for Playing with others, and Barb for PVP. ha:smug:
hellfurion
17-06-2011, 04:47
Blizz reps have said so many times stuff like "Diablo is all about the loot!" that I sometimes worry that they forget this. NO, the loot is a means to an end - smashing monsters. All the loot in the world doesn't matter if I don't enjoy the brawl. Making that brawl exciting should always be priority #1. Everything else is secondary. I hope they remember this...
In my own personal case, I have a different opinion. It was all about the loots for me, and its still going to be in D3. :)
I do like the idea of getting rewarded for your accomplishments, and for me, my idea of end-game is to have all the legendary equipments there is. It is like a trophy or an award of my adventure. I do not necessarilly enjoy endless grinding or mindlessly killing monsters. At first it will be fun but after a while, its gonna feel like a whole damn cycle. It wouldn't be worth doing for me unless I get something amazing in return.
direfire
21-06-2011, 08:59
Let me first get something clear: This is mostly a personal question, understand that opinions may differ here so let's not start a war like we're accustomed to...
So, I've been seeing a lot of threads about how Endgame should be, why is Endgame being forgotten, why aren't followers in Endgame, etc, etc...
My question is, once you reach actual Endgame (defeating Hell itself), what's the reason to keep the char in there? I mean, IMHO once I finish a game (and even before I finish a game) it's time to start again, with a new build, a new char, etc. Call me casual if you wish, but I truly don't understand the need of keeping the character once all is done...
So, what inspires you to be an Endgame player? What am I getting wrong?
I understand your question exacly. I'm one of those who as soon as I reach end game roll a new char or rather I prefer playing a little while on all my 10 characters in wow and/or play a little on all my 30+ different builds in D2.
I don't enjoy end game grinding as much as the leveling progress but I do understand why some or most prefer perfection on one char rather than a bunch of fair characters.
It's all about preference. The hoarder or the hunter.
When I still played D2 I wanted to complete the chars I played. For every char I had a set type of gear I wanted to get and didn't stop until I gathered that. For some it was easy (IK barb, tal meteor sorc) but for some it was a lot harder since there really was no end to it since obtaining the best gear was close to impossible (bvb barb & pvp smiter)
I'm sure it will be the same for D3, get some chars for pve, some for pvp and gear them all up :)
I'm a completionist in this case. A game's not finished until you've done it with all the classes/chars and completed the sets you have bits for. Solo (although muelling for the gear). Since a lot of the gear can only be gotten (in d2) by grinding HBaal over and over and over an..... I gotta stay in end game for a while.
On the other hand I think I need to break that habit. You've got no idea how long it took me to "finish" Titan Quest: Immortal Throne. Seventy-odd character classes... :scratchchin:
my problem with mmo end game is the requirement for larger groups. if wow was always 5 man dungeons that just got harder i would be happy. gear up through tier one dungeons to move on to tier 2 dungeons and so on.
They're doing it now, with Rise of the Zandalari patch, if anyone is interested.
DragonChi
21-06-2011, 23:15
In D2, endgame never appealed to me. Mostly because I didn't like going from, looking epic and then going back to rags that have better stats. So I got into the habit of making many alts. Now that they have made progression substantially more intriguing in D3, I will be taking my characters right to the very end. There is just WAAAY too much kewl **** they are implementing for me to even THINK about passing that up. So, while I still enjoy making new characters, I won't be making them nearly as much now, because I want all of my characters to reach their highest potential.
In D2, endgame never appealed to me. Mostly because I didn't like going from, looking epic and then going back to rags that have better stats. So I got into the habit of making many alts.
I agree. That was one of the reasons why i rarely played much past normal in D2, preferring to re-roll a new character or build.
Now that they have made progression substantially more intriguing in D3, I will be taking my characters right to the very end. There is just WAAAY too much kewl **** they are implementing for me to even THINK about passing that up. So, while I still enjoy making new characters, I won't be making them nearly as much now, because I want all of my characters to reach their highest potential.In D3, things are much more interesting, what with the best items and skills not being available until hell difficulty. That alone gives me enough reason to play each character through to the end, not to mention what endgame content Blizzard will come up with. :D
Apocalypse
22-06-2011, 12:34
i never cared about going back to the rag looks when going higher in dif level, this was only an issue in d2x of course so maybe i was just so happy to be getting more powerfull items i didnt care? not sure didnt bug me. what bothered me was the grinding. i never minded having to grind a level here or there in games but when the end game is nothing but kill the same stupid 5 bosses over and over and over for about 10 billion times thats when apoc says hell no.
i would beat hell/hell with a char and level up a few more times doing some mfing or whatever then reroll. had a sorc i kept to mf when i wanted to do that but everyone else pretty much just got rerolled
1-PvP
2-Better items for the 60 char and for the new ones
3-Honor thing about "LOOK! That guy killed diablo!"
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