The Attainable Perfect Warrior

[Clervis]

This is a basic analysis and computation of the Perfected Warrior with maxed out stats and gear. It is not meant to show some unachievable limit. Rather this shows the waste of the build and that a sufficiently patient player can reach near equivalence with substantially more realistic involvement. So below I've included some pragmatic alternatives that won't decrease the ability of a lesser build. From that I've built an Attainable Warrior that rivals the Perfected Warrior.

Of course, some may disagree on the gear choices, understandably. So I included the two top helm choices (I prefer to switch them depending on the situation), and Awesome Plate of the Lion as opposed to 'of the Stars', 'of Precision', or 'of Harmony' which will be discussed later. Also, I did some advanced computation against monsters, using a Blood Knight as reference because it has the highest level, to hit, and armor class.

Perfected Warrior's Gear

Helm of Sprits (6AC) or Royal Circlet
King's Sword of Haste/Speed (100 ToHit, 175% Dam)
Awesome FPM of the Lion (75 AC, +150% AC, 60 HP)
Holy Shield of the Tiger (20 AC, +170% AC, 50 HP)
2xObsidian Jewelry of Zodiac (40% ResAll, 20 AA)
1xDragons Jewelry of Zodiac (60 Mana, 20 AA)

Perfected Warrior with Helm of Sprits

Str:...310...........Clvl:...50
Mag:.110...........AC:....271
Dex:..120...........ToHit:.210
Vit:...160...........Dam:..172-196
Life:..548...........Res:...75/75/75
Mana:219
Block:...............130% vs. H/H Blood Knight (Max:100%)
Final ToHit: .......115% vs. H/H Blood Knight (Max: 95%)
Final Def:..........71% vs. H/H Blood Knight (Max: 85% All Dlvl's, 80% Dlvl 14, 75% Dlvl 15, 70% Dlvl 16)
Final AveDam:....276/414/138 (Demon/Animal/Undead)


Perfected Warrior with Royal Circlet

Str:...320...........Clvl:...50
Mag:.120............AC:....307
Dex:..130...........ToHit:.215
Vit:...170...........Dam:..177-201
Life:..568............Res:...75/75/75
Mana:269
Block:................140% vs. H/H Blood Knight (Max: 100%)
Final ToHit: ........120% vs. H/H Blood Knight (Max: 95%)
Final Def:............107% vs. H/H Blood Knight (Max: 85% All Dlvl's, 80% Dlvl 14, 75% Dlvl 15, 70% Dlvl 16)
Final AveDam:......284/425/142 (Demon/Animal/Undead)

Calculations
H/H Blood Knight::Mlvl=60, MToHit=250, MAC=165
Block = Dex + 2*(Clvl - Mlvl) + 30
Final ToHit = Dex/2 + ToHit + Clvl - MAC + 70
Final Def = 30 + MToHit + 2*(mlvl-clvl) - Dex/5 - AC[Items]
Final AveDam = (DamMin + DamMax)/2 * (Clvl/100+1)[CritHit]


Inefficiencies

So what does this show? Well certain things are over done. For instance, Block with the Royal Circlet build is 40% higher than is useful. So let's approach this from the perspective of inefficiencies.

1. Resists

Stats:
80% is 5% over. Not a whole lot of lee-way considering you have to have maxed resists (at least in fire and magic), especially considering a 1% increase from 74% to 75% yields 4% reduction in elemental damage (that is, the higher you go the higher them impact of an increase). Obsidian goes from 31-40% so you have be pretty lucky to get a 37+ and a 38+.

Alternative:
Get some resists from your 3rd jewelry as well, instead of Dragons. That's a better sacrifice than the AC you'll lose trying to get resists from a Helm or Shield, if you ask me. Especially considering if you're fighting succubi, you'll want the Royal Circlet, that gives you lots of mana.

2. Life

Stats:
548 and 568. Life is one of the stats you want to max when you're sufficiently satisfied with all other alternatives. So you can never have too much life, unless you're missing out somewhere else.

Alternative:
The only place you have much room sacrifice your life for alternative is Jewelry and Armor. Shields also can offer +Dex and +All, but they're much smaller returns. Jewelry can yield more dexterity with 'of Perfection' if you haven't maxed To Hit, Block, and for more AC. On the other hand, if you have way too much Dex, you can get jewelry 'of the Lion' which can yield +60 life (over +40 from Zodiac), and since +Str and +Mag are marginal benefits, it could work out better. Armor doesn't have to add life either, granted it can be pretty hard to find an Awesome Full Plate Mail of anything useful. But Armor can also offer 'of Precision' +20 Dex, 'of the Stars' +11 All, and 'of Harmony' Hit Recovery, which can be useful depending on tactics.

3. Mana

Stats:
219 and 269. Much like life, you can't have too much but other things can precede it. Mana comes mainly from prefixes though.

Alternative:
The only place you can sacrifice mana to get other benefits is Dragons Jewelry. This should only be done for Resists. You can also sacrifice +All Atrributes gear, which gives a little mana, for Dex or whatever. Awesome Plate of the Stars can give you +11 mana as well. But aside from Dragon's jewelry and Royal Circlet, any other sacrifice for mana gain could seriously compromise your character's abilities.

4. AC

Stats:
271 and 307. As you can see, the Royal Circlet build has 107% Final Defense (that is the chance that AC will prevent a melee strike). But the max is 85%, so, since AC is linear, that's 22 AC that's wasted. You'll need no more than 285. Furthermore, that's against Hell difficulty Dlvl 13 Blood Knights. Any lower dlvls require a whole lot less AC. Higher Dlvls reduce the max so 85% will only help you on dlvl 13. That's 80% on dlvl 14, 75% on dlvl 15, and 70% on dlvl 16, and it means that you can compromise youself all the way down to 270, if you choose. Or shoot for a middle ground of around 277ish. However, this is only for the Royal Circlet build. Helm of Sprits, represents a significant drop in AC, albeit a rugged life-stealing defense. AC gear maxed out everywhere else, you're barely maxing out dlvl 16. However, with high block and life-steal, these can make up for higher hits received, as long as you change your tactics accordingly.

Alternative:
Hitting this high of AC requires perfect gear, which is near impossible to find (especially the Holy Shield of the Tiger). But as shown, you can drop required AC significantly with the Royal Circlet build because of its high AC already, and Helm of Sprits provides its own offsetting benefits. So, the more AC the better, but don't lose yourself. With 285 you'll be equivalent to the Perfected Warrior with the Royal Circlet.
249 using Helm of Sprits:
Dlvls 1-12::maxed
Dlvl 13::14.1% more hits landed
Dlvl 14::16.6% more hits landed
Dlvl 15::33.5% more hits landed
Dlvl 16:: 21% more hits landed
Dlvl 15 is the worst, but most likely you're going to be using your Royal Circlet for that level, due to the much higher probability of facing succubi and spell casters. So, ultimately, this sacrifice in defense will only affect you on Hell Difficulty Dlvl 13, 14, and 16 against melee monsters, if you face any. The difference at this point will be extremely muted with 100% block. Also, I should note that if you find this defense too low, you can get an Awesome Plate of Precision which can take you up to 275 and 313.

5. Dexterity

Stats:
120 and 130. As you can see, this takes gives you 30% overblock and 20% overToHit with Helm of Sprits, and 40% overblock and 25% overToHit with Royal Circlet. This is far from necessary. You could do with 30 less dexterity with Helm of Sprits and 40 less dexterity with Royal Circlet (keeping in mind the added sacrifice to AC: 6 and 8, respectively).

Alternative:
Well maybe you don't have access to three Jewels of Zodiac. Those could be sacrificed for suffixed like 'of the Lion', 'of Wizardy', 'of Life', or 'of Harmony', to give you bonuses in other areas. Additionally, your King's Sword of Haste/Speed need not be 100%, it could be 80% without too much sacrifice. On, the other hand, if you have a problem coming up with 30 Dex from your Jewelry, you could get an Awesome Plate of Precision. Either way, maxing Block and To Hit are absolute necessities at this level, and very attainable relative to some of these other feats.

6. Character Level

Stats:
Clvl 50. This takes a lot of work. On the other hand, leveling is easily combined with item searching in Nightmare Hell, so by the time you really get up there, you should be looking at some sweet gear. However, Clvl affects everything: damage, ToHit, Block, Defense, Defense against ranged attacks, Life, and Mana. This shows in the equations posted above. So every level makes a small increase in things individually, but, as a whole, the difference will be significant. Furthermore, Diablo isn't nearly as time intensive and Diablo 2. Granted it is a little more monotonous, but the elite builds of Diablo 2 take much more time to achieve than this warrior and their end game is much more difficult to obtain.

Alternatives:
Higher dexterity will help make up for a lower clvl in ToHit, Block, and Defense, but as you level you'll need it less and less. All other areas that clvl affects should take a backseat to Dex until it's sufficiently maxed.

7. Average Damage

Stats:
276 and 284. Since damage is mostly Strength and Clvl based, and Strength is mostly a base stat, maxing damage is a marginal benefit. For instance, a Clvl 50 Warrior with a base King's Sword of Haste/Speed (151%) and +30 extra Strength (as opposed to +60) will only do about 7% less damage than the Perfected Warrior.

Alternatives:
Don't worry about the damage on King's Sword of Haste/Speed. And certainly don't worry about boosting strength to boost damage. The increase will be negligible.



Conclusion

So after looking at the above material, it becomes somewhat more clear that you can make a Warrior virtually as effective as the perfected Warrior, without having to obtain the near impossible gear selection. So below is a list of gear that would be virtually equivalent.

Helm of Spirits (4+ AC) and Royal Circlet
King's Sword of Haste/Speed (85+ ToHit, Any Damage)
Awesome FPM of the Lion, Stars, Harmony, Precision (72+ AC, 140%+ AC)
Awesome Shield of the Tiger (18+ AC, 140%+ AC)
2x Obsidian, Jade Jewelry of Zodiac, Precision, Harmony, Lion
1x Obsidian, Jade, Dragons, Drakes Jewelry of Zodiac, Precision, Harmony, Lion

[I]This will give you, ceteris paribus:
100% Block
95% To Hit (the max)
Defense ~95% of perfect
Damage ~95-100% of perfect
Life and mana ~80-110% of perfect

As shown above, the difference between the Perfected Warrior and this Attainable Warrior is nearly indistinguishable. And it should be achieveable, with sufficient technique and patience. Case in point, I started a Warrior two weeks ago (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=793529). Already I've obtained a King's Sword of Haste (89, 175), Obsidian Ring of the Zodiac (31,18), Helm of Sprits (4 AC), Awesome Plate (72,+149%), Awesome Shield of the Tiger (19, +141%, 47HP), and Clvl 35. That's the bulk of the requirements, all items from drops. The rest will probably be found doing experience runs in Nightmare Hell. If not, tele-Lazzy runs on Normal can yield drops at a decent rate.

I personally think this is exciting considering that in Diablo 2 perfection to this degree for almost any build is almost impossible. What do you think?

[Norrit]

I tried playing a warrior on bnet and I couldn't find that cool stuff. Granted I did get some stuff that was useful but nightmare was pretty hard for me.

Are you playing single player or multi-player? Just wondering how hard OBS/Zod and Dragon/Zod jewelry will be to find with them unavailable from griz runs like it is in multiplayer.

Also, do you know anything about the PSX version of Diablo as far as item generation goes? Playing the PSX version on my psp is an option for me, if the item generation works the same as the PC single player experience, I might go for that.

[Clervis]

Multiplayer, of course. Finding that stuff takes a whole lot of perseverance. But the idea is that if you're going to level your character to 50, you'll be finding this stuff eventually, that is if do it right. For these set-ups here is what I suggest to get this gear:

Nightmare Butcher runs:
Takes about 150 runs or so if you teleport down dlvl 2 and kill him and any other unique monsters. It's also a good place to find Enchanted, Hidden, and Eerie shrines.

Shopping:
About 14 hours on average will yield you a King's Bastard Sword of Haste/Speed. Got mine in about 10 this time, last time did about 20 with no luck. This also gives you the opportunity to find an Awesome Shield of the Tiger, a pretty good one too considering how long you'll be shopping, and an Awesome Plate, not end game, but this will give you some good AC.

Nightmare Difficulty Hell runs:
Keep hitting up Lazarus and his gang as well as Sir Gorash. These will eventually give you Royal Circlet, some decent jewelry, and Awesome FPM of some junk. You can level all the way up to Clvl 47 here. Leveling anywhere else is a folly because you get drops as well as good experience. If you don't think you can hack it down here yet, get that KSoH first and try to be a little more cautious and you shouldn't have any problems. I imagine that jewelry really takes time to find, I think I just got lucky. But by clvl 50 you should have some decent pickins.

I think it's worth noting which monsters can drop the Zodiac suffix since it's the highest clvl for this gear.

Normal
Blood Knights (dlvl 13,14,16)
Soul Burners (dlvl 15)
Advocates (dlvl 16)

Uniques
Blackskull (Balrog, dlvl 13)
Witchmoon (Snow Witch, dlvl 13)
Rustweaver (Doom Guard, dlvl 13)
Stareye The Witch (Hell Spawn, dlvl 14)
Steelskull the Hunter (Steel Lord, dlvl 14)
Graywar the Slayer (Doom Guard, dlvl 14)
Dreadjudge (Magistrate, dlvl 14)
The Vizier (Cabalist, dlvl 14)
Bloodlust (Hell Spawn, dlvl 15)
Blackjade (Hell Spawn, dlvl 15)
Red Vex (Hell Spawn, dlvl 15)
Arch-Bishop Lazarus (Advocate, dlvl 15)
Diablo (Lord of Terror, dlvl 16)
Sir Gorash (Blood Knight, dlvl 16)

Hell monsters that can't drop Zodiac
All Spitting Terrors (even Uniques)
All Lightning Demons (even Uniques)
All Balrogs (excluding Blackskull)
All Vipers (even Uniques)
All Non-Unique Succubi (excluding Soul Burners)
All Non-Unique Knights (excluding Blood Knights)
All Non-Unique Mages (excluding Advocates)
Gorefeast (Vortex Lord, dlvl 13)
Doomcloud (Maelstrom, dlvl 13)

So, as you can see, you can only hope to get that stuff from Uniques (for the most part), Blood Knights, Soul Burners, and Advocates. So Lazzy runs are your best bet, but you'll do best if you clear dlvl 16 as well.

As far as the PSX version goes, I have no idea, but I'm eager to find out. The reason being that you can play PSX games on some smart phones nowadays and if there was any way to transfer my character over to a freaking phone, I could go hell while sitting in the dentist chair. I'm thinking by the look of reviews though that it doesn't have multiplayer, that is, the three difficulty settings which wouldn't really work for me. Shucks.

[Lanthanide]

It is highly unlikely that PC character saves would be compatible with the PS version.

[Clervis]

Yea, that's not really what I meant. Wink, wink.

[Norrit]

Well there IS multiplayer in the original PSX version, but it requires to be playing on a real psx with 2 controllers :P

Anyway thanks a lot for the info. I might do the PSX version after all just to see if that version's item generation info matches up with Jarulf's guide.

[Clervis]

Oh cool. Does that mean it has the three difficulty choices then?

[diabwizz]

nice work here. it was interesting to see all the math for it.
Im kind of wondering what the qualities youd be looking for in a best warrior.. Im assuming its something like kill ability/survival/speed.. which the latter makes the 122 less mana(or 111 if were werent going for a daunting plate)seem too severe for me. I think thats the big point everyone will disagree, is how much mana is good. everyone going to agree with where you said its less important, but the big question would be "how much?" the speed of clearing is where it gets me, is any lvl 50 should be surviving and bashing skulls in, but in all the warr coops over the years Ive done (and this is just me talking here everyone else might be different) with all super high lvls its always the awesome shield guy slowing up everyone as they cant tele as much.
again great writing and ideas. good to see someone else in the HOS club which is dwindling :D

[Clervis]

Yea, I guess I come from the perspective of doing a lot of solo play. That means things move slower and more methodically. That's the way I seem to enjoy the game the most. Same with Diablo 2, Enigma carrying Hammerdins were the bane of 1.10. (Didn't stop me from having one, though.) After Enigma came out, every character and every build all of the sudden was using it purely so they could tele around and keep up with the mass of offensively tilted characters.

As far as mana goes, the answer to the question of how much mana is enough? As much as possible. The difference arises when you determine at what cost you want that mana. Royal Circlet is undeniably an awesome helm. I can guarantee nobody, in their right mind, would swap an 'of Zodiac' suffix for 'of Wizardy', it's just not worth it. Dragon's is always worth it if you have your resists accounted for, which will either mean you'll have to get two 37+ obsidian jewelry pieces (extremely rare), a resists helm (obviously counter-productive), a resists shield (about 30 less armor), or just try to function with low resists. As you can see, that generally means you're going to tend to toward a low AC build or a low resists build, at which point you're somewhat encouraged to take it even farther and eliminate AC altogether in quest for better spell casting. This is all in reference to Hell Hell tactics that is, and assumes you're not swapping out whole outfits for different situations. The build above has potential to obtain nearly 300 mana, which is a generous amount (20 teleports). Any further pushes toward the mana side of things, however, represent a substantial sacrifice to the well-roundedness of the warrior. To be honest, however, I do throw on a Dreamflange when I'm doing Normal Lazzy runs. But my objective is to show that a happy median can be built between the Life-stealing Warrior and the Mage-style Warrior, as long as you're smart about your leveling technique.

This is how I'm doing it:

Stage #1
Get up to clvl 30 improvising with what you can find and shop along the way. Focus first on Dex, then Vitality (the only elixir you can't buy), then on the rest.
Stage #2
Start doing some hell runs. Primarily focus on Lazarus's gang. If you find some good items, equip them, save the high +magic items for book reading, and sell the rest. Once your inventory gets cumbersomely full of gold, go shopping.
Stage #3
Shopping. Keep checking Griswold for good shield, swords, helms, and armor. See stage 2 once you run out of gold.
Stage #4
Once you have some good armor, a strong weapon, and high magic items (especially Dreamflange or Royal Circlet), starting doing teleporting Nightmare Butcher runs. Kill every unique monster on dlvl 2. This will get you a Helm of Sprits in about 150 runs on average. In addition, you should keep your eyes out for Enchanted, Hidden, and Eerie Shrines. Each time, you'll be stopping by Griswold to see what he has for sale and Adria for mana potions, elixirs, and books. By the time you get Helm of Sprits, you should have nearly every spell to level 15 and all stats maxed (except maybe strength).
Stage #5
Back to shopping. By now you should be pretty picky, so you won't need to go do Lazzy runs for more gold that often. The objective here is the holy grail, King's Sword of Haste/Speed. It will probably take around 14 hours of straight shopping time (according to my estimate). On the bright side, you'll find some great armor and shields by the time that comes around. If you get bored, you can go do some Lazzy or experience runs.
Stage #6
Final stage.This is for experience, jewelry, elite armor, and Royal Circlet if you haven't found it yet. The focus here is on Nightmare/Hell Unique monsters, Blood Knights, and dlvl 16. Only Blood Knights, Soul Burners, Advocates, and most uniques can give you 'of Zodiac' jewelry, that will eventually be your biggest objective. Soul Burners are obnoxious and slow killing, so avoid them. The uniques you want to focus on will mostly be in the same place each time. So if you're on dlvl 13 or 14 you'll want to b-line it for the stairs, unless Blood Knights are around, or if you spot a unique. Dlvl 15 kill Lazzy, his gang, and that stray Succubus Bloodlust if you find her. Dlvl 16 clear the whole level. Sure, you'll get the same experience from most of the monsters most of the time, but by the time you get to clvl 50, if you've taken this strategy, you're much more likely to have found yourself with a nice selection of Zodiac jewlery. Not too mention, there's about a dozen undesireable prefix/suffixes that Blood Knights cannot drop.

[Norrit]

Oh cool. Does that mean it has the three difficulty choices then?

Yes it does. The same restrictions apply I believe (you need to be a certain clvl to open nightmare/hell games). I just started my warrior but I don't have much time to play these days. Will keep you guys updated on this thread. There is no fancy online MP for that version, just local (up to 2 players). Still you can play it on the go on most smartphones (or on a Psp like I do)

EDIT: Apparently the psx version includes all single player quests and you can select all 3 difficulty modes too (!!!). Next I need to check if all quests are available when playing with 2 players. Either way, my warrior got the skeleton king quest so I now have an undead crown, meaning I won't have to farm countless hours for a helm of sprits (woot!)

[twipley]

About 14 hours on average will yield you a King's Bastard Sword of Haste/Speed. Got mine in about 10 this time, last time did about 20 with no luck. This also gives you the opportunity to find an Awesome Shield of the Tiger, a pretty good one too considering how long you'll be shopping, and an Awesome Plate, not end game, but this will give you some good AC.
As much as I like playing the game occasionally with other people (as an alternative to moving sports), I would find myself a "no life" to reset the game and spend any time whatsoever doing shopping runs. Even Butcher/Lazarus runs might come boring after a while.

Just playing once in a while, probably will stop at Nightmare-difficulty Hell or at some nearby place.

EDIT: upon reading back my post, the "no life" part has struck me. It is not meant as a pejorative label ported on you, but rather as an affirmation from my part that I am never going to play the game that way. I do not know, it is just not my taste.

I very much like reading your posts, Clervis, by the way.

[Lanthanide]

I also see absolutely no point in wasting hours and hours to buy some item. If you know the item can be found in shops, you know how much it will cost in terms of gold, just get a trainer and create the item, deduct the gold and be done with it. Use those hours and hours to actually play the game and have fun, instead of making it into a chore.

[twipley]

That (though I would not be tempted to do such a thing), and the moving of Griswold to the start location (I've posted how to hack that in somewhere in the Dark forums, if I remember correctly), or still the hacking of the game so that the shopping list gets reset every time one closes its window (someone once told me that would be very hard to hack that in).

What I am doing is skipping the shopping-run part altogether. Maybe I'll be able to get to nightmare-difficulty hell, but probably not up to hell-difficulty far-away places! I just want to do some cooperative play here and there.

[Clervis]

Don't ask me why, but I prefer the "chore". Hacking or creating just cheapen the experience. I was pretty pumped to find my three big finds (HoS, KSoH, and ORoZ). If I hadn't invested the time it would have been neither fantastic luck nor an accomplishment. On the other hand, I might have had a life. (Took about 2 weeks of a lot of play) But I can't really take an issue with anything you guys have said.

[twipley]

I guess I would prefer the "chore" over cheating- or hacking-type activities, too. Indeed, that is some accomplishment you have achieved. Probably one I will never ever achieve in the whole of my (wait, "quite restricted," to say the least, putting it from a certain perspective) lifetime.

If we ever get somewhere worthy of being mentioned with my nephew without any kind of shopping runs I might report back here for you guys to read and enjoy.

[FireIceTalon]

Here's my warrior....I prefer Awesome Stars over Awesome Lion though, and Emerald Tiger over Holy Tiger. My items arent 100% perfect but close enough I guess ;)

http://www.tristr.am/character.php?characterid=77

[twipley]

Having both this topic and Bolty's High-Level Warrior Guide in mind, I think that ready access to both as-good rogue and sorcerer guides would be a nice thing to have.

What are the "attainable" sorcerers and rogue builds? To what degree comes the shopping-runs method necessary? etc.

[Clervis]

Shrui's Multiplayer Rogue Guide (http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Shrui%27s_Multiplayer_Rogue_Guide), Flux'27s Expert Mage Guide (http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Flux'27s_Expert_Mage_Guide)

[twipley]

Perfect.

http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Bolty%27s_High_Level_Warrior_Guide
http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Shrui%27s_Multiplayer_Rogue_Guide
http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Flux%27s_Expert_Mage_Guide


Alternatively, if one person has a very fast CD, 12X or greater, have him/her be the portal maker. CD speed seems to make a huge difference when going from level to level: people with 2X drives can spend around a minute in transit, whereas those with 12X+ can spend less than 30 seconds in transit.

Funny rogue guide.

Thanks, Clervis.

[Flux]

Excellent infos. I should condense the OP into a strategy article in the wiki, at some point.

I'll just point out that the max needed defense/AC and dexterity/blocking vary by Clvl. Decreasing as you level up. so your figures are correct for Clvl 50, but a Clvl 40 with identical gear would have different values for their blocking and % to hit from monsters.

http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Diablo_Characters#Maximum_Defense

This means that using an RC instead of Helm of Sprits gives you needed blocking/AC when you're lower level. And something like a godly shield or stormshield would be useful for the higher AC/faster blocking. Consider; as much damage as monsters do on hell/hell, equipment that lets you block or avoid just one hit per level is worth considerably more health than the Tiger suffix adds to a shield.

[twipley]

Nice to see you around, Flux. Ever since I joined these forums, you just had stopped posting. Just, nice to see you around.

[Clervis]

Case in point, I started a Warrior two weeks ago (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=793529). Already I've obtained a King's Sword of Haste (89, 175), Obsidian Ring of the Zodiac (31,18), Helm of Sprits (4 AC), Awesome Plate (72,+149%), Awesome Shield of the Tiger (19, +141%, 47HP), and Clvl 35.

Ha. I just reread this. 8 months later and I'm still using all of that same gear I got in the first 2 weeks. I'm level 42 now. Sucks.

[Ivah]

I also see absolutely no point in wasting hours and hours to buy some item. If you know the item can be found in shops, you know how much it will cost in terms of gold, just get a trainer and create the item, deduct the gold and be done with it. Use those hours and hours to actually play the game and have fun, instead of making it into a chore.

I cant disagree more on that. I would never even consider cheating in a classic game. If you cant get the item the normal way, then you should just use what you have. An example of a similar struggle that I have is in Zelda: a link to the past. I'm trying to find all the heart peices, I could check them on youtube or something but it takes away the feeling of actually finding everything. Well enough of that.

Good read in this topic!

[doughnutjimmy]

Totally agree with that. I never cheat in games, it just doesn't do it for me. My other love is Final Fantasy 7 and i remember getting all the max limit breaks, ultimate weapons and mastered materia without referring to any guide or cheat.

So much more rewarding! Never did kill Emerald & Ruby though!