Better than Jalals?

[wooginator]

Okay, so I've seen a couple posts on another website where people are looking for/selling druid helms with mods like +3 fury/rabies +2 druid skills, 20s, a couple of other mods that aren't so useful, and it seems to me that these can't hold a candle to Jalals. You lose one point in fury/rabies, it's true, but you gain a 20% ar bonus, 30 fhr, 30 res all, 20 to str and a bunch of defense. Is there some reason people want these helms or are they just wrong?

[alphaz]

For a fury druid, in terms of overall damage/life/fhr/ar balance, jalal beats a perfect 2/3/2os/visionary/10fhr/40life pelt. Such pelt is sought after for it's rarity and probably for some absurd damage build (imagine 2x 30max jewels in it, yumm).

[Ghoulz]

Rare pelts are a caster thing.

[Trionth]

Rare pelts with +3 Rabies and Fury aren't... Rare pelts with +3 Tornado (and +2 druid) are.

They're stylish :D

[crawlingdeadman]

you're asking us to explain the actions of idiots...okay, they're idiots.

[vknez]

rare circlet 2 sox with nasty mods and nasty jewels can be better overall vs jalals

[Trionth]

rare circlet 2 sox with nasty mods and nasty jewels can be better overall vs jalals

If you're going for nasty.

[Ghoulz]

You guys have high expectations on finding godly stuff like that....

[alphaz]

This thread isn't about caster druids so nn circlets and nado pelts kkthx. Inkandagger did some calculations comparing jalal's vs guillaume's vs 3ss/3fury/2os/40life for a fury vs melee, using all perfect items on a lvl90 fury druid and according to him:


Ok so what we see is this:

jalals (40ed/7fhr) avg damage = 5707 before ds

guils (40ed/7fhr) avg dmg = 5448 before ds

rare (2x 30ed/9str/9dex/7fhr) avg damage = 5713 before ds

jalals has 49% ds, rare has 495 ds, guils has 64% ds.

jalas =8560 avg
guils =8935 avg
rare =8513 avg

rare ~600 extra life over guils, jalals is ~400 life over guils. jalals wins on attack rating.


The attack rating bases are so similar as to be insignificant, the life bases are also very similar - the rare might allow you to survive 1 extra hit in melee though.

You also have to add in a bit of crushing blow for Guillaume's, to the effect that over the course of a 5 hit or so duel, the Guils setup ~= the rare in terms of life (because of the life lost from cb)

So my conclusion on the most typical/ most used setups for fury druids is that guils > vs conc and other fury, rare > vs zeal (will net a tad more ar with angelics than jalals), and jalals is somewhere in between.


My personal choice has always been Guillaume's. I use Jalals when I am either bull****ting or dueling casters. I use Cerberus sometimes vs zeal and conc if they have a lot of defense ( the ow helps a bit).

IMO a rare pelt needs to have +2 druid/+3fury and 40+ life with 2 open socketes, and most importantly base 10 fhr (allowing you to NOT use fhr jewels with bloodfists) and ar/lvl mods to be better than other pelts. If it has all of those, it clearly wins.

Such pelt has its niche, but hey since jalal's better for balanced stats I'll trade you my jalal's if you have that pelt :D

[Skullbash]

For a fury druid, in terms of overall damage/life/fhr/ar balance, jalal beats a perfect 2/3/2os/visionary/10fhr/40life pelt. Such pelt is sought after for it's rarity and probably for some absurd damage build (imagine 2x 30max jewels in it, yumm).

Also, a similar pelt with rabies or fireclaws instead of fury would be great to put facets in and use on a max damage type of setup and would be superior to jalal.

But barring a pipe dream rare pelt like that, jalal's is better.

[alphaz]

Also, a similar pelt with rabies or fireclaws instead of fury would be great to put facets in and use on a max damage type of setup and would be superior to jalal.

But barring a pipe dream rare pelt like that, jalal's is better.

There is such pelt on non-ladder with stats 2dru/3fireclaws/1armageddon/2os/39life/some fire res. I almost traded for it but after some calculations, I would gain 2k fireclaws and 1-2k armageddon damage but would lose a lot of life trying to get 86fhr =/

I also saw a 2druid/3rabies/2os/fhr pelt 2 ladders ago but the owner couldn't sell it.

[nurman]

Jalal is like the Arreat of druids. No matter how much you want to beat it, you can't.

[Skullbash]

There is such pelt on non-ladder with stats 2dru/3fireclaws/1armageddon/2os/39life/some fire res. I almost traded for it but after some calculations, I would gain 2k fireclaws and 1-2k armageddon damage but would lose a lot of life trying to get 86fhr =/

I also saw a 2druid/3rabies/2os/fhr pelt 2 ladders ago but the owner couldn't sell it.

Yeah, there was a fireclaws pelt like that but with fhr and visionary mod a while back on the "devil site" for escnl but I lost track of it. I mainly just wanted it for a damage setup in stash to add around 3k fc damage and 5k (ish) ar. I had some other gear switches that let me hit the 86fhr bp as well.

[minuses]

But 2 druid, 30 frw circ is nice for fury druid in pvp.

[alphaz]

But 2 druid, 30 frw circ is nice for fury druid in pvp.

Vs running/teleporting chars i.e. pubs, yes
Vs melee (fury/zeal/conc/jabber), nope

[Judson]

There is such pelt on non-ladder with stats 2dru/3fireclaws/1armageddon/2os/39life/some fire res. I almost traded for it but after some calculations, I would gain 2k fireclaws and 1-2k armageddon damage but would lose a lot of life trying to get 86fhr =/

I also saw a 2druid/3rabies/2os/fhr pelt 2 ladders ago but the owner couldn't sell it.

I personally feel that trying to get 86 fhr sacrifices too much to matter for very little gained. If you have 9k+ life, you won't go into hit recovery that often vs many characters anyway (remember it takes 1/12 of your life base in damage to force a hit recovery), if you are dueling assassins you can wsg, and 4 frame recovery just seems so much more balanced. 3 frame has its place (vs a fb sorc or a hammerdin maybe) but it is not that necessary in my opinion.

[alphaz]

I personally feel that trying to get 86 fhr sacrifices too much to matter for very little gained. If you have 9k+ life, you won't go into hit recovery that often vs many characters anyway (remember it takes 1/12 of your life base in damage to force a hit recovery), if you are dueling assassins you can wsg, and 4 frame recovery just seems so much more balanced. 3 frame has its place (vs a fb sorc or a hammerdin maybe) but it is not that necessary in my opinion.

That would be true in wolf form, although most of the time I'm in bear form for the boost to fireclaws' attack speed. 86fhr in bear form is crucial imo.

[Judson]

That would be true in wolf form, although most of the time I'm in bear form for the boost to fireclaws' attack speed. 86fhr in bear form is crucial imo.

Well, in bear form there are other considerations. First is attack rating. A visionary pelt is going to offer a lot more here than it would in wolf form. Also, because of the life bonuses of the bear, the rare pelt can also win here. Damage is also going to be higher, and you can still have 50% fhr on a two socketed one. However, that is a lot of expense for a little gained and some lost (resistances). It really can be a tossup but jalals is still hard to beat for its cost and stats.