PvM psn dagger mancer 1.13

[Diablolslayer]

Important to point out that this is a PvM build, and can be altered to PvP if you focus on nova more than dagger.
My goal here is to create a Necro so powerful in PvM that he rapes all monster (I soo wanna try ubers one day LOL). With the right gear I do believe it’s possible to create a beastly max block/crazy psn dmg daggermancer. The only problem I have is resistances. Anyways lets get to the gear lay out I intend to use.

A crazy 2 nec, frw, res, and str circ with 2 os would be nice, but not affordable so our next best friend, shako with a um!
A maras for ammy, higher res the better as that is the weak point of this build so far
Weapon switch1
Blackbogs with a 5/5 facet and trangs shield 5/5 facet
Weapon switch 2
Fleshripper/fury fanged knife/ heart carver whatever floats your boat, with a sanctuary or a dream. (I’m leaning more towards a dream since this is our finisher and holy shock + cb/ds/ow would be nice + res)
Rings: Bk/soj? Bk/ravens? Unsure yet
Gloves: trang’s no other option
Belt is trangs too
Boots: imo its between gores or some kind of 30 frw, 10 fhr, res boots which I have a pair.
Armor: treachery to get venom
Main armor: Bramble, godly + psn skill dmg
Last of my question I have are:
What merc? I was thinking of a A3 wolf with a grief pb, dream helm, dream shield, prudence armor, with cold to stop em dead in there tracks
Another option is an a5 merc with a grief pb, prudence and a dream helm
After maxing the big three psn skills, should I go for bone armor for better tanking or spear as a finisher help?
Any help is good thanks :thumbup:

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

If you intend to go for a Act III Iron Wolf, they never actually swing their weapon, so a grief would be largely wasted on him. Heart of the Oak however would improve his cold damage.

[Diablolslayer]

If you intend to go for a Act III Iron Wolf, they never actually swing their weapon, so a grief would be largely wasted on him. Heart of the Oak however would improve his cold damage.

Oh i know that, but my plan is to trade it if i get a super high roll and get a low one. The main purpose of him is to freeze enemies with his glacial spike, and have the grief's -20-25 psn stack with mine. That way the enemies psn res gets - 55-60 from my gear and mercs, and then more so with lower res curse.

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: Fleshripper/Fury Fanged Knife/Heart Carver; with the traditional Daggermancer, physical damage does nothing for you, you're just casting Lower Resist, stabbing them once, and hoping poison kills. OW fits the theme very nicely, but the damage it does isn't very good at all in PvM. I also loaded OW on mine for the cool blood splatters, but if you're just going for efficiently, it's pretty pointless.

Re: 'Dream'; Monsters don't need a finisher, poison kills them. Fire Golem also works.

Re: Rings; go dual SoJs. Dagger is pretty mana draining. Raven Frost is unecessary, you already have CBF from 3-piece TO's, and PDagger's +AR% boost is huge.

Re: Boots; see above on OW.

Attack speed - make sure it's decent. Between FHR, high block rates, and a slow dagger stab, you'll find your attack interrupted a lot.

Instead of using 'Treachery' to prebuff, use the low roll 'Grief' on switch for yourself, swing it a few times and you'll trigger Venom, then go back to BBS/TO.

If you're putting 'Dream' runewords on your mercenary, why do you need to carry one as well on switch? Either way, it's not efficient, and the pulses do very little damage. That, and finishers are not essential. I'd suggest other helms (+Skills/FCR for the Iron Wolf, Andariel's Visage for the Barb).

What's with the 'Prudence' armor? Skin of the Vipermagi or a high +%Cold Ormus would be better suited for the Iron Wolf, 'Fortitude' for the Barbarian.


Oh i know that, but my plan is to trade it if i get a super high roll and get a low one. The main purpose of him is to freeze enemies with his glacial spike, and have the grief's -20-25 psn stack with mine. That way the enemies psn res gets - 55-60 from my gear and mercs, and then more so with lower res curse.

Your mercenary's -%PoisonRes only applies to attacks your mercenary makes, and does not stack with yours. But by the time I finish this post, I bet someone has already told you that.

A huge problem for Daggermancers is getting crowded, causing dagger stab interuption. You'll never land a single stab as the mob slowly pwns you. You might wanna consider a Holy Freeze mercenary > Iron Wolf for the slow, and as for skills, I'd say Bone Wall (you also get a stronger Bone Armor by pumping Bone Wall instead of Bone Armor). It's very useful to stopping crowding. Bone Spear won't do damage. You don't need a finisher. If there's a Poison Immune monster, Lower Resist will take care of it, and if it doesn't, then cast Decrepify, switch to your 'Grief' on backhand, and attack. It hurts, even more if paired with a Town Guard/Barbarian. Also, I'm going to suggest a Dol rune instead of a facet for your BBS.

Good luck!

[Diablolslayer]

Re: Fleshripper/Fury Fanged Knife/Heart Carver; with the traditional Daggermancer, physical damage does nothing for you, you're just casting Lower Resist, stabbing them once, and hoping poison kills. OW fits the theme very nicely, but the damage it does isn't very good at all in PvM. I also loaded OW on mine for the cool blood splatters, but if you're just going for efficiently, it's pretty pointless.

well the whole thing is so i wont run around and do nothing lol, its just for fun remember. I think i'm going to make a king slayer pb and use vengeance, LOL could work with lower res after all :)


Re: 'Dream'; Monsters don't need a finisher, poison kills them. Fire Golem also works.

Re: Rings; go dual SoJs. Dagger is pretty mana draining. Raven Frost is unecessary, you already have CBF from 3-piece TO's, and PDagger's +AR% boost is huge.

Re: Boots; see above on OW.

I guess I was looking more towards PvP in that regard to get rid of last hp, I was thinking 1bk 1 soj to adress mana and get life, and ravens for less dex i would need to pump for max block



Attack speed - make sure it's decent. Between FHR, high block rates, and a slow dagger stab, you'll find your attack interrupted a lot.

Instead of using 'Treachery' to prebuff, use the low roll 'Grief' on switch for yourself, swing it a few times and you'll trigger Venom, then go back to BBS/TO.

If you're putting 'Dream' runewords on your mercenary, why do you need to carry one as well on switch? Either way, it's not efficient, and the pulses do very little damage. That, and finishers are not essential. I'd suggest other helms (+Skills/FCR for the Iron Wolf, Andariel's Visage for the Barb).

What's with the 'Prudence' armor? Skin of the Vipermagi or a high +%Cold Ormus would be better suited for the Iron Wolf, 'Fortitude' for the Barbarian.

The bramble adds 50 fhr, and with a few sc I should be fine. Only problems are ias maybe although I will also have a ridiculous nova to compliment. As for merc I think I'm going to go with a2 holy freeze or a barb to destroy with huge physical damage. We'll see my budget after i get final equip.





Your mercenary's -%PoisonRes only applies to attacks your mercenary makes, and does not stack with yours. But by the time I finish this post, I bet someone has already told you that.

A huge problem for Daggermancers is getting crowded, causing dagger stab interuption. You'll never land a single stab as the mob slowly pwns you. You might wanna consider a Holy Freeze mercenary > Iron Wolf for the slow, and as for skills, I'd say Bone Wall (you also get a stronger Bone Armor by pumping Bone Wall instead of Bone Armor). It's very useful to stopping crowding. Bone Spear won't do damage. You don't need a finisher. If there's a Poison Immune monster, Lower Resist will take care of it, and if it doesn't, then cast Decrepify, switch to your 'Grief' on backhand, and attack. It hurts, even more if paired with a Town Guard/Barbarian. Also, I'm going to suggest a Dol rune instead of a facet for your BBS.

Good luck!

Don't forget if i use bonewall/nova they will get rattled an nowhere near me. Thank you very much for reply, you definetely answered some questions for me! I only need to figure out resistances problem but i think I'm going to use sanctuary/ kingslayer for switch. Any more input is welcomed!

[XCodes]

I think omg is on to something. You really should have 3 weapon setups, not 2.

1) Blackbog + Trang Shield (both with 5/5 Poisons)

The Blackbog is easy and not a bad pick. This is the setup you use for whacking things with PD for poison damage. Dol is nice if you're kinda lazy. Terror has a nice, tight radius and can be used quite well in a surgical manner if you're willing to micro it. If you come across a rare dagger with +2 necro skills, 100% HCMTF, and 2 sockets, you can stick two 5/5 Poison Facets in it and get something slightly superior, especially against breakable poison immunes. (side note, I remember HCMTF spawning on circlets at one point in time. Does that still happen?)

2) Ber'd Fleshripper + Defensive Shield

This is where the options come in. Pick a shield you think will be most useful for bosses. I think Gerke's Sanctuary is a pretty awesome pick myself, the combination of resists and MDR/PDR take the edge off all the nasty attacks you get thrown at you by act bosses. Keep the Fleshripper in your stash unless you're fighting an act boss, ubers, etc. If you want to maximize the above shield's usefulness for this setup, stick an Um, PDiamond, or Sol in it (general order of preference).

3) Grief + above shield

This is what you're going to have in your switch 95% of the time. Grief is for triggering Venom. If you want to maximize Venom's damage, then stick a 5/x Poison Facet in here instead of the above option (the -res really doesn't matter since you're going to switch, anyway). I don't advocate going for the extra facet, though, since it's really not going to apply to the bulk of your poison damage, but I understand the appeal of squeezing every last bit of damage out of a shtick.

[Diablolslayer]

I think omg is on to something. You really should have 3 weapon setups, not 2.

1) Blackbog + Trang Shield (both with 5/5 Poisons)

The Blackbog is easy and not a bad pick. This is the setup you use for whacking things with PD for poison damage. Dol is nice if you're kinda lazy. Terror has a nice, tight radius and can be used quite well in a surgical manner if you're willing to micro it. If you come across a rare dagger with +2 necro skills, 100% HCMTF, and 2 sockets, you can stick two 5/5 Poison Facets in it and get something slightly superior, especially against breakable poison immunes. (side note, I remember HCMTF spawning on circlets at one point in time. Does that still happen?)

2) Ber'd Fleshripper + Defensive Shield

This is where the options come in. Pick a shield you think will be most useful for bosses. I think Gerke's Sanctuary is a pretty awesome pick myself, the combination of resists and MDR/PDR take the edge off all the nasty attacks you get thrown at you by act bosses. Keep the Fleshripper in your stash unless you're fighting an act boss, ubers, etc. If you want to maximize the above shield's usefulness for this setup, stick an Um, PDiamond, or Sol in it (general order of preference).

3) Grief + above shield

This is what you're going to have in your switch 95% of the time. Grief is for triggering Venom. If you want to maximize Venom's damage, then stick a 5/x Poison Facet in here instead of the above option (the -res really doesn't matter since you're going to switch, anyway). I don't advocate going for the extra facet, though, since it's really not going to apply to the bulk of your poison damage, but I understand the appeal of squeezing every last bit of damage out of a shtick.

Thanks for the reply! And I'll def look for a fools mod, ias, 2 nec dagger with 2 os and 100% mtf, but untill then its blackbogs LOL.

The jist more or less of my build here is to have insane psn dmg, which would be dagger. I'm not too worried about crowd control cause worst case scenario i bone wall/prison around me and nova. And this nec is gonna eat face, he doesnt hit and run, he stays to brawl while you die a slow death! :yes: So this is pretty much a hilarity build. any ideas for possible solution to res problem?

[XCodes]

If you want Fool's mod, it'll have to be 1 socket. The +Necro Skill, 2 sockets, fool's, and HCMTF mods are all prefixes. To add insult to injury, there are virtually no suffixes on daggers of serious use whatsoever to us daggermancers. 40% IAS, +20 min/max damage, and ML are pretty much the "best" setup to mitigate the mana cost of Poison Dagger, but on a character not made for physical damage that's a really weak setup.

[Diablolslayer]

If you want Fool's mod, it'll have to be 1 socket. The +Necro Skill, 2 sockets, fool's, and HCMTF mods are all prefixes. To add insult to injury, there are virtually no suffixes on daggers of serious use whatsoever to us daggermancers. 40% IAS, +20 min/max damage, and ML are pretty much the "best" setup to mitigate the mana cost of Poison Dagger, but on a character not made for physical damage that's a really weak setup.

Hmm what ever i'll see what happens lol

[Demoquin]

What will be the final stats and skills for build?

[Diablolslayer]

What will be the final stats and skills for build?

str= what ever is needed after torch/anni/gear, dex = enough for mx block, vita is rest. skills= 20 psn dagger, 20 poison explosion, 20 nova, 20 bone wall, 1 to every curse middle to left, rest in armor

[XCodes]

If "rest" is more than 3, you're better off putting those points towards Bone Prison instead of Armor.

[Diablolslayer]

If "rest" is more than 3, you're better off putting those points towards Bone Prison instead of Armor.

like a 15 dmg difference at lvl85

[XCodes]

like a 15 dmg difference at lvl85
You'll appreciate that 15 damage when you're standing alone in the middle of a big pile of corpses with your life bulb visibly empty.

[Diablolslayer]

You'll appreciate that 15 damage when you're standing alone in the middle of a big pile of corpses with your life bulb visibly empty.

LOL good point, I'll go for prison lol. Btw I just rolled a 19/43 bramble :)

[Strogg]

Did you plan to incorporate a point into CE?

[XCodes]

Did you plan to incorporate a point into CE?
Of course, CE is a prerequisite for PD's synergies.

[Strogg]

Of course, CE is a prerequisite for PD's synergies.

True, but whether or not you use it is probably the real question. heh sorry.

[Strogg]

Would a Mal be good to put into the Blackbog due to it preventing monster healing (like bosses) or would it be pointless? A Dol would make the monsters run away, but one point into terror can do that too. A Ber would give some CB. Just wondering what the best socket would be and if Mal is a good choice...

[Ghoulz]

Would a Mal be good to put into the Blackbog due to it preventing monster healing (like bosses) or would it be pointless? A Dol would make the monsters run away, but one point into terror can do that too. A Ber would give some CB. Just wondering what the best socket would be and if Mal is a good choice...

Bosses don't regen, and you won't be poking any ubers...

Why not just blind them while sticking them? CB isn't really important, just give your merc a CB setup and you'll be set.

I say just shael it if your FPA isn't at it's max.

[Strogg]

Bosses don't regen, and you won't be poking any ubers...

Why not just blind them while sticking them? CB isn't really important, just give your merc a CB setup and you'll be set.

I say just shael it if your FPA isn't at it's max.

Sounds like a good idea. What about Life/Mana leech? Is there a viable way to do that or is phys damage too low?

[Diablolslayer]

i 5/5 psn faceted my blackbogs. I also have a kingslayer on switch and works like a charm. Massive cb/ow. The dagger + vengeance owns pretty hard.

[Strogg]

Does clay golem or decrep help slow bosses with Blackbogs, which does 50 slow on it's own? Should I just use LR?

[XCodes]

I don't think CG stacks with Blackbogs, those two are the same effect. Decrepify, however, does.

Also, Prevent Monster Heal on a [Poison] Daggermancer? Seriously?

[mouseman]

Hmm has anyone tried something like this:

Max poison skills (60 points) and corpse explosion (20 points). That would be the core.

You would mainly use poison nova, but poison dagger 1-2 monsters. When those monsters are dead, you would CE them and kill the rest (because poison nova has weakened them already). It would be fast, I think. Funny thing is, Lower Resist works well with your poison skills and CE.

You could control the mobs with merc & clay golem combo and your curses (attract works wonders).

I'd go for maximum poison damage (bramble and death's web) and use shael'd blackbogs on switch for poison dagger. For bosses I'd just poison dagger them and my merc would lend his CB. I'd take fcr and resists from rare rings and amulet, use trang-oul shield, gloves and belt for the obvious reasons and finally shako or fcr necro circlet. I'd choose tri-res boots over goreriders, because this build would not be an actual meleemancer.

The thing is, you won't need bone wall/bone prison if you get your clay golem and merc going and use your curses. There are so many ways to completely paralyze all the monsters with your curses.

[RealmOftheWolf]

Found a half decent dagger and figured Id use it on a Daggermancer

40 Ias
Fools
2 sockets

Thinking this for gear.
Shako (upgrade to 2 nec,30 FR/W with sockets should be cheaper than usual circlets)
rare Fanged Knife with 2 15 ias jewels or 1 sheal + facet
Bramble
Homuncalus
Trangs
Arach mesh
Aldurs
Maras
1 Raven
1 Resist all ring with ar hopefully

If i have this right the breakpoints are for a fanged knife.
0 15 1.66
8 14 1.78
19 13 1.92
35 12 2.08
58 11 2.27
99 10 2.5

If I get the circlet then 2 15 ias jewels will be socketed into it to reach the last break point.

[Strogg]

What makes more sense to curse a boss with using this build? Decrep to slow it down more or LR to lower it's resists?

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Ideally, you'd LR, stab with PDagger, and then Decrep. That way your poison damage will be as if LR was in effect, and the boss will be slowed.

[XCodes]

40 Ias
Fools
2 sockets
BBS > that. Attack speed is relatively meaningless for Daggermancers looking to make use of the poison as opposed to just using the AR, and it doesn't look like it does enough damage to make effective use of PD's AR boost.

That said, believe it or not the most important thing for a Poison Daggermancer to have is a Grief PB. Sounds strange, sure, but it's the best thing to use to trigger Venom. Dragon requires you to get hit, Treachery takes up the armor slot (can't be used with Bramble, but is otherwise a nice budget option), and Poison Facets trigger on level up. The way that venom stacks with PD's damage makes it the best overall combination. You just aren't going to get a lethal PDagger stab without some source of Venom. If you come across the odd unbreakable poison immune, then it doubles as an effective beatstick, too.

That said, against Bosses your best routine is going to look like this:
1) Summon a CG next to them to distract them, and hit them with Decrepify to slow them down.
2) Smack them with Grief until Venom triggers.
3) Hit them with LR and stab them just once with your BBS (using Poison Dagger, duh). You could stab them more than once, but it's not going to do much.
4) Hit them once again with Decrepify (or use Life Tap if you like) and switch your weapon one more time, this time to a Fleshripper (preferably Ber'd).
5) Stab them in the face until they're dead.

The lower poison damage you're inflicting with the Fleshripper won't override the high poison damage you did when you smacked them with the BBS, so you'll get the best poison damage you can get combined with the OW and CB on Fleshripper.

[RealmOftheWolf]

I was figuring it would be decent mainly so I could stab each guy quickly and run before getting swarmed as a slow attack would just make it painfully slow to take mobs without resorting to poison nova and with fools giving a large wad of AR it would make hitting alot easier. The other mods on the dagger are just garbage for what I could possibly need.

So is this item charsi food or does it have some use. I look at blackbogs and see it has 30 ias and big + skills so I guess to come close to the usefulness of BBS I would need a even rarer dagger with.

2 Necro skills (Prefix)
Fools (Prefix)
2 sockets( Prefix)
Attack Ignores Target's Defense (Suffix)
40 ias (Suffix)

?

And yes I heard about Poison daggers effectiveness with venom but I aint tested it out and was planning on treachery as a prebuff. Just a shame really I would love to find a rare weapon for some style points lol

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

I would take 100% HCMTF too.