Phys Bowazon - best armor before Fort?

[droid]

Whats your opinion on the best armor to use till you can get Fort, for a pure phys MS/Strafe build?

I've been debating between Lionheart and Treachery:

Treachery -

Pros: Big IAS boost probably means the difference of a breakpoint; Venom adds 300ish poison damage; some FHR, and Fade offers 60% resists and 15% PDR with curse duration -79%

Cons: Venom means you cant make use of PDSCs, Fade rarely triggers (at least if you're doing things right).

Lionheart -

Pros: 20% ED plus 15 dex means 35% ED, and its all phys unlike Venom so it can benefit from CS/Amp/etc.; big boost to vit and life; 30 resists that dont require a hit to trigger and dont expire like Fade.

Cons: Lower potential resists, 35 ED probably wont make up for the loss of an IAS BP, the -req doesnt do much good since you'll want a light elite armor anyway and the reqs on those arent high

I've always thought that the IAS on Treachery was a dealbreaker for Lionheart, but I thought I'd see what you all thought. Or is there another armor youd prefer for this build, and why?

[AnimeCraze]

Increasing attack by 1 frame increases overall damage by ~10% (and more if you are already firing fast). As I expect a normal bowazon to have over 250ED, I would go for treachery if it does make you 1 frame faster.

[Crying Freeman]

I use Treachery exclusively. Lionheart is fine though, but Treachery is much better.

The Fade proc kind of suck, being such a low chance. I always look for those small bonfires and stay until it triggers. Relying on it for resists is not a good idea, but if you've got ~50 all res, it's okay.

[Kalkanor]

ya Treachery is better

the main reason i would say is after you get Fort Treachery is very handy for your merc^^

[KremBanan]

Treachery is ofc a very good choice. personally, I would use Duress. But then again, Im mostly a Strafer nowadays. Since you will use MS also, Treachery is a good one.

[zrk]

Lionheart is terribly overrated.. 3 mid runes for some stat boosts(which arent that useful for untwinked chars that need to spare points anyway) and some resists, when 1 mid rune gets an armor with better resists, def and fhr(smoke).

[crawlingdeadman]

Lionheart is terribly overrated.. 3 mid runes for some stat boosts(which arent that useful for untwinked chars that need to spare points anyway) and some resists, when 1 mid rune gets an armor with better resists, def and fhr(smoke).

these arent stats you're saving really. as the OP says, it's more like 15% ed instead of 15dex.

smoke is great, but what of the things you listed as being better really benefit a physical bowazon? fhr doesnt matter for a ranger in pvm all that much. ditto resists and defense is a joke for a ranger. for a physical bowazon strictly looking at smoke vs lionheart, it's easily lionheart.

i'd take treachery most days over either lionheart or smoke, but it depends upon the rest of your gear. if you dont need the ias, then half the reason to use treachery is gone and i'd therefore pick lionheart.

i've used em all. lionheart and treachery both are great pick which you use base upon the rest of your gear and your goals.

[droid]

well the BPs of interest for Hydra bow are 35, 56, and 89, then 147...of course you get 60 from Shael WF + LoH, and then either 45 from Treachery or 35 from Andys+IAS puts you over the third...but even with Andys IAS+Treachery you cant hit 147 without losing Atmas or Razortail.

So I guess the logical conclusion then is Treachery till you you have Andy's IAS, then go to Lionheart once the IAS on Treachery is redundant?...or, I suppose, stick with Treachery till you get Fort, and go 40%ED jewel instead of IAS in Andy's, and then clean the socket when you do get Fort.

[ancalagon the black]

Increasing attack by 1 frame increases overall damage by ~10% (and more if you are already firing fast). As I expect a normal bowazon to have over 250ED, I would go for treachery if it does make you 1 frame faster.

It has 20%ED and +15 dex, but that's not all. It also has +25 str, +20 vit, and +50 life. If you think about the points that you can spend on dex that you would have to spend on str/vit, it gets better. 1 vit point gives 3 life, so 50 life is ~17 vit. 17+20+25 = 62.

62 + 15 + 20 = 97%ed total.

That assumes, of course, that you would have spent at least 25 points in str and 37 points in vit. The str is a pretty safe bet, but if you go glass-cannon (no-vit), then that doesn't help with %ed as much. Still, for a glass-cannon build, Lionheart looks even more attractive, since the +50 life, +20 vit, and +30 res all make even more of a difference.

Still, even if all of the above applies, if Treachery pushes you past 2-3 breakpoints, Lionheart won't be able to keep up.

[zrk]

It has 20%ED and +15 dex, but that's not all. It also has +25 str, +20 vit, and +50 life. If you think about the points that you can spend on dex that you would have to spend on str/vit, it gets better. 1 vit point gives 3 life, so 50 life is ~17 vit. 17+20+25 = 62.

62 + 15 + 20 = 97%ed total.

That assumes, of course, that you would have spent at least 25 points in str and 37 points in vit. The str is a pretty safe bet, but if you go glass-cannon (no-vit), then that doesn't help with %ed as much. Still, for a glass-cannon build, Lionheart looks even more attractive, since the +50 life, +20 vit, and +30 res all make even more of a difference.

Still, even if all of the above applies, if Treachery pushes you past 2-3 breakpoints, Lionheart won't be able to keep up.60 Ed doesnt help that much. with a modest setup (lvl 20 might, 500 dex, ~100 ed from LoH) it is 9.9/9.3=6.5% damage.
Going from 9 to 8 frames is 12.5%



well the BPs of interest for Hydra bow are 35, 56, and 89, then 147...of course you get 60 from Shael WF + LoH, and then either 45 from Treachery or 35 from Andys+IAS puts you over the third...but even with Andys IAS+Treachery you cant hit 147 without losing Atmas or Razortail.

So I guess the logical conclusion then is Treachery till you you have Andy's IAS, then go to Lionheart once the IAS on Treachery is redundant?...or, I suppose, stick with Treachery till you get Fort, and go 40%ED jewel instead of IAS in Andy's, and then clean the socket when you do get Fort. Atmas isnt that good on a multizon anyway(only mid 2 arrows cast stuff, but all arrows get the DS bonus from highlord). So its not exactly giving up a lot(1.82/1.71=6,4% flat damage boost to all arrows in case of lvl 24 cs vs 5% to cast low level amp with mid 2 arrows)

Andariel's visage with 15 ias jewel
Highlord's
Windforce with shael/15 ias jewel
Treachery
Laying of Hands
Raven Frost
Razortail
Raven Frost
War traveler

great setup on a budget

[sneakytails]

I like my faith bow and lionheart armor combo, no complaints so far. No need for treachery when using loh and faith. 8player pits no problems. Took over 5 years to get the runes but it was worth it.

[droid]

Atmas isnt that good on a multizon anyway(only mid 2 arrows cast stuff, but all arrows get the DS bonus from highlord). So its not exactly giving up a lot(1.82/1.71=6,4% flat damage boost to all arrows in case of lvl 24 cs vs 5% to cast low level amp with mid 2 arrows)

Well then whats your PI solution? Reapers on merc? I prefer Obedience, plus then you're locked into Reapers and cant ever go to Pride if you acquire one. I personally dont like chars with no immune solutions, but Highlords is of course a solid choice if you're willing to mess with it :)

Other point, there's no such thing as a multizon that doesnt use strafe (or GA, but mostly strafe I'd imagine), especially on the targets where you'd want Amp the most - act bosses, stoneskin champions, etc.

And the 5% ctc is deceptively low on paper; in practice, it triggers on much more than 5% of your shots, since most arrows will end up hitting multiple targets, and you can curse multiple targets with one proc. Try using MS in Cows and you'll see what I mean, there's a whole lot of red clouds popping up even without Strafe. It also doesnt only apply its bonus to one hit like DS, you get the bonus damage from when it procs to, usually, when the monster dies. That makes it difficult to compare mathematically or statistically with the bonus from DS, which is independent of situation, target, and monster distribution.



Andariel's visage with 15 ias jewel
Windforce with shael/15 ias jewel
War traveler

great setup on a budget

You must not be on Ladder if you think thats budget right now :)

[zrk]

Well then whats your PI solution? Reapers on merc? I prefer Obedience, plus then you're locked into Reapers and cant ever go to Pride if you acquire one. I personally dont like chars with no immune solutions, but Highlords is of course a solid choice if you're willing to mess with it :)magic arrow or switch atma on during annoying monsters


And the 5% ctc is deceptively low on paper; in practice, it triggers on much more than 5% of your shots, since most arrows will end up hitting multiple targets, and you can curse multiple targets with one proc.the radius is kinda tiny.. and both casting and ds apply on striking so its not a dichotomy(other than amp only applying on 2 middle arrows)