so weak in hell..cant kill hell baal with my zon

[sniperm]

hi forum,

I just started diablo2 like 3 weeks ago..

Ive made a bowazon and until nightmare im very strong.. but in Hell.. Im weak... I cant kill Baal by my self..

so far this is my stats.

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str - enough for armor

dex - around 460

life - 60

eng - base

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skill tree....

valk 10

guided max

strafe max

multi - 10

penetrate - 10

critical - 10

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gear.

helm - vampire with 40 ias jewel

armor - fortitude

gloves- LoH

bow - windforce with ias jewel
switch - faith bow

boots - water walks

ammy - atama

rings - raven and buk

belt - razor

Ive been seeing ppl do hybird zon with jav/bow.. but cant find the right built and builts are long time ago..

plz any help..

[KremBanan]

Whats your merc and what is he wearing? He will help alot.

And I would use Gorerider boots. The CB and OW is invaluable against bosses imo. Ber'ing the Wf aint such a bad idea either(if you dont consider the Ladder-price for one atm)

Also, whats your Attack Rating? I see you have Faith on switch, if you use that you will not have a huge AR problem, but I would suggest a Demon Limb on switch for MASS AR.

[sniperm]

Whats your merc and what is he wearing? He will help alot.

And I would use Gorerider boots. The CB and OW is invaluable against bosses imo. Ber'ing the Wf aint such a bad idea either(if you dont consider the Ladder-price for one atm)

Also, whats your Attack Rating? I see you have Faith on switch, if you use that you will not have a huge AR problem, but I would suggest a Demon Limb on switch for MASS AR.

with windforce. its around 4700 but with faith its around 3800... but faith attact rating is around 22000 and wind force is 11000..

my merc has set bill and uniqe armor and helm..

why does everyone say get war travelers?

[droid]

Couple problems here...



skill tree....

valk 10

guided max

strafe max

critical - 10



helm - vampire with 40 ias jewel

bow - windforce with ias jewel
switch - faith bow

boots - water walks

rings - raven and buk



You want more points in Valk, 17 at least for Hell after +skills, ideally 20 hard points. Likewise, you want 16 in CS after +skills, that will give you a little extra DPS boost but thats not your problem with Baal.

There's no such thing as a 40 IAS jewel, dont we all wish...you mean 40/15 jewel, I assume :) Vampire's not the ideal helm for a zon, though, its more defensive and zons want offense - which means Andy's IAS, Giant Skull, or some cheaper options like upped Duskdeep (+8 damage and resists), Tal helm (big dual leech), Crown of Thieves (LL and big Dex bonus). Vgaze is much more useful on your A2 merc.

Are you hitting the right breakpoint with a 15 IAS jewel in your WF? I thought you needed the 20 from Shael to hit the last GA/MS BP in a standard setup.

Faith on switch is a bit unneccessary, WF and Faith are usually either/or...you might want to switch to an A1 merc and give her the Faith, if its not in a MB/GMB

Walks are OK but there's better options, like Gores or Travs. Hell, I even prefer Sander's boots: 10 dex/5 str is as good as 15 dex/0 str, you get 20 more FRW, and you get +100 AR, which gets multiplied out a lot.

BK ring is also unneccessary for a bowzon, you dont need +skills nor that much LL. Go dual Ravens for the dex/AR, or get a good rare with dex/AR/resists/+max/etc.

Lastly, specifically for Baal problems, you might try getting an A2 merc with Reaper's Toll and taking off your Atma's. Decrep curse is especially good on Baal, as it slows him down and weakens him, and effectively prevents him from using half his skills, like teleport/clone/tentacles. Really takes the bite out of him and makes it just a slow matter of whittling down his health. Reapers is not the best option for non-boss fights, though, as its incompatible with Atma's.

[DH Amazon]

Lastly, specifically for Baal problems, you might try getting an A2 merc with Reaper's Toll and taking off your Atma's. Decrep curse is especially good on Baal, as it slows him down and weakens him, and effectively prevents him from using half his skills, like teleport/clone/tentacles. Really takes the bite out of him and makes it just a slow matter of whittling down his health. Reapers is not the best option for non-boss fights, though, as its incompatible with Atma's.

I use these both (atma, reapears merc) at the moment in new ladder. Curses overrides each other, but no big problems.

I use strafe against baal, takes 30-60 seconds, depends how much baal moves.

Still using Eagle, Lionheart etc... Demon Limb at switch.

[Doctor Clock]

Your Attack Rating is low. Get more. Charms, maxing Penetrate, Demon Limb enchant, etc.

People suggest War Travs. because of the mod "Adds 15-25 damage". Math happens and it end up being a lot of damage due to multiplication and other things I don't bother understanding. The other mods are good on it as well. I prefer Gore Riders for CB/OW though.

More points in Valk. She tanks stuff for you.

I think you could find better places to put skills points than Guided Arrow. That's just me, though. I'd pump Freezing Arrow to take care of Physical Immunes.

It sounds like your merc's gear sucks. Give him a Reaper's Toll, Shaftstop/Duriel's Shell/Treacher/Gladiator's Bane and a Vamp/Tal's Mask/Crown of Thieves. Throw some Crushing Blow gear on him (Hone Sundan, Guillaume's Face, Duress) or a Crescent Moon polearm when you fight Baal.

Bowazons aren't that great against bosses compared to other characters. They are much better at doing lots of damage to big crowds of enemies.

[KremBanan]

I prefer Gore Riders for CB/OW though.

Finally someone else who have seen the light also:thumbup:

[sniperm]

okay.. after reading replys...

im going to do this...

duel raven rings...gore riders... on switch cta? (this bo thing.. when I bo and switch agian does the bo stay?)

merc... better armor...(wat do I need? shaftshop?) weapon would be polearm(no pikes or bills ?) helm..? (wat should I use? im using my vampire cuz of the duel leech)

from now... ill try to max penetrate and critical.

how does this sound?

btw, I see those hybird zons with jav//bow's.. do they kill good in hell? like bosses and stuff?

I have a uniq jav and have this thing where I can redo my stats and skills..

[zrk]

youre kidding yourself if you think any bowazon setup will kill bosses swiftly. It doesnt matter if youre using gores or war travs, guillaume or 45/120. In 1 player games a 0% CB setup takes them down fast, in 8 player games any setup will struggle. With gore riders you'll be doing less damage against regular monsters, which is where bowazons excell. Why not play to your strengths instead of weaknesses?

[KremBanan]

With gore riders you'll be doing less damage against regular monsters, which is where bowazons excell. Why not play to your strengths instead of weaknesses?
But normal monsters will die quickly even if he doesnt use any boots at all. So why not use some boots that will do better vs bosses then?

[zrk]

But normal monsters will die quickly even if he doesnt use any boots at all. So why not use some boots that will do better vs bosses then?They dont die so fast in big player settings though. I think the dynamic is more about how big the raw damage is. Gores' 15% cb adds around 1k average damage against baal(with 50% phys res and 250k life assuming him at half life as a very rough estimate) which indeed helps a lot for low damage setups but for higher damage setups it is not quite so fantastic, especially assuming that bowazons run chaos instead of baal with lower life dia which is more of "their area" given the smaller need for teleport.

[KremBanan]

I would like to see the math behind that 1k avg damage :) And the math if Amp procs too.. ;)

Imo, for PvM Wartravelers cant compete with Gores. I only use Wts if I want the MF.

[NotTooShabby]

ill help yah if you catch me on d2 message me nottooshabby253 im on aim too

[zrk]

I would like to see the math behind that 1k avg damage :) And the math if Amp procs too.. ;)

Imo, for PvM Wartravelers cant compete with Gores. I only use Wts if I want the MF.didnt assume amp proc.. due to distaste of it due to it being bad with multi due to only working with mid 2 arrows as opposed to Highlord applying to all arrows. But it only makes CB worse anyway due to it not benefitting from negative resist unlike regular damage.

damage 0.0625(base)*0.15(amount of cb)*0.5(phys res)*250000(baal at half health as crude average though the second half takes more shots so should be more on that side)=1100

more common enemy for bowa in practice, dia at slightly below half health:
0.0046875*50000=234 damage
average guided with perf setup(from my comparison thread) against 50%phys res monster 6335, 15% cb adds 3.7% dmg against dia, 15%ds 1.85/1.81= 2.2% (or without highlords 1.7535/1.71=2.5%)

cb damage to regular monster(10k life at half life) 0.0046875*5000=23.4,which is about 0.5% of multi average(or even less of strafe)

damage added by war trav wth 37 32020s,razortail and wf at lvl99: 371/351=5.7%

so against dia, gore rider adds 5.9%(6.2% without highlord) damage and war trav 5.7%,
against regular monster gore rider adds 2.7%(3% without highlord), war trav 5.7%

[KremBanan]

37 32020s,razortail and wf at lvl99.......
First off, who has a zon like that? And if you want highest damage dont use 32020s!

And I didnt quite follow your math there.. And why mention Multishot? He had problems with bosses, one should use Strafe vs bosses. And with the amount of minimum arrows shot, CB should take plenty of life from the monster.
I havent any numbers on this, I go for experience, and I must say that CB > Wts for PvM(specially bosses).

[sniperm]

how about my skill points?

did I put every points where the should be? right now im putting points in valk.. so far with gear my valk is at 18 points.

[zrk]

37 32020s,razortail and wf at lvl99.......
First off, who has a zon like that? And if you want highest damage dont use 32020s!

And I didnt quite follow your math there.. And why mention Multishot? He had problems with bosses, one should use Strafe vs bosses. And with the amount of minimum arrows shot, CB should take plenty of life from the monster.
I havent any numbers on this, I go for experience, and I must say that CB > Wts for PvM(specially bosses).i used guided arrow in boss case(is strafe better? its 7 frame(with nextdelay) vs 8 frame guided with the wf/pride setup, but strafe has the 3/4 penalty and doesnt always hit), multi in regular monster case. and setup actually used 14/75 and 4/20s. i mixed up.

Dont think experience could say much in either case unless high percision benchmarks are involved, the difference of a couple of percentages is too little to judge by eye.

As for level 99.. 94 is realistic and the few levels wont change much so we could disgard that. Using perfect charms instead of generic(12 max and 3 max) ones doesnt change much( (81+331.5)/(331.5+67.5)=1.033 difference in base damage)

how about my skill points?

did I put every points where the should be? right now im putting points in valk.. so far with gear my valk is at 18 points.That doesnt matter much.. it comes down to gear, getting that pride or faith for merc, the maxer charms and 45/120 helm

[DH Amazon]

i used guided arrow in boss case(is strafe better? its 7 frame(with nextdelay) vs 8 frame guided with the wf/pride setup, but strafe has the 3/4 penalty and doesnt always hit), multi in regular monster case.

Solo baal is easy for very good bow char. Maybe guided is little faster maybe strafe. At start of ladder it's always some struggle with Baal, but not later.
Cursing fast, enough crushing blow and some slow that Baal don't change location too often, those works for me.

I use Strafe now (I have ~14k ar). Kills fast enough and its good when Twin brother appears there. This is for solo games. No charms or other goodies yet, but killed baal over 20 with strafe in this ladder without problems.
Crushing blow merc (after enchant charges) removes fast first 70-80% life from baal (using at the moment Reapers, Guillaume, eth bugged Duress 2.7k def).

Later in full games I don't bother with bow as dagger is 3-4x (IMO) faster against Baal anyway without any mana problems.

[RobbyD]

okay.. after reading replys...

im going to do this...

duel raven rings...gore riders... on switch cta? (this bo thing.. when I bo and switch agian does the bo stay?)

BO stays after you cast it, so yes. Dual RFs are overkill IMHO - I'd say to find a rare ring with 100+AR, life leech (WF provides the mana leech), and some resists if possible.


merc... better armor...(wat do I need? shaftshop?) weapon would be polearm(no pikes or bills ?) helm..? (wat should I use? im using my vampire cuz of the duel leech)

For your merc, I suggest Hone Sundan with AmnAmnShael, Kelpie Snare, Reaper's Toll, or Crescent Moon in a Thresher all as better weapons than that Bill.

For a hat, I'd say Guilliam's Face if you use Kelpie or Reaper's - that gives slow target from the weapon and CB from the hat. If Kelpie, socket that with an Amn rune.

If you make Crescent Moon (Static serves for CB substitute), you need Crown of Thieves, Tal Rasha set helm or Vampire's Gaze for the life leech.

Hone Sundan is a really nice option - HUGE CB, and AmnAmnShael gives you 14% leech and 2 IAS breakpoints. It just doesn't slow the target, so Blackhorn's face might be a good option for a hat.

Armor - against bosses, especially Baal's Ice Wedge, I'd say either Duriel's Shell or Gladiator's Bane since they provide "Cannot be Frozen", so he doesn't turn blue and slow down.


from now... ill try to max penetrate and critical.

how does this sound?

CS has terrible diminishing returns at high levels. I'd suggest tapping off at around 10+skillers. Baal doesn't ignore your decoy (unlike Ancients), so cast that often to take the heat off of you and the merc. Extra points in Decoy and Valk are worth the investment - more so than extra points in CS for the pitiful returns.

Guided Arrow is autohit, so if you use that, you don't need AR.... just sayin.