View Full Version : The skillbar?
First off, hello all of you (first post in here) and now to the real subject: the skillbar.
i have played diablo 2 for many years now, and i quite like the f1 f2 etc skill system but from what i hear, Diablo 3 has a skillbar. What im wondering is how does it work? Is it like the F system that you click on nr 1 and the skill you picked replaces the skill appointed to the second mouse button or..? Also i would like to hear your opinions on which one is/seems better.
Thanks in advance :)
A description of the interface can be found here:
http://www.diablowiki.net/Interface
Personally I like a real skillbar like in WOW, with room for all skills and complete freedom to map any hotkey to any skill. I really do not agree with the developers to cut back to only 4 skills that can be hotkeyed at one time. Why why why not more than that? What's positive about it?
Wirt
Moonfrost
12-01-2010, 19:20
The current skill bar is a bit on the tiny size, so I hope there will be multiple bars that you can scroll through with shift + mouse scroll or something. Alternatively, having TAB switch between two skill bars, in addition to the right mouse button click, be nice.
But yeah, basically, when you point at a monster and press one of the 1-4 keys, you'll use the corresponding skill on the targeted monster. Aiming can be a bit iffy with this method, especially if both you and your target are in motion, so hopefully monsters will be easily targetable (unlike in, say, Titan Quest).
ZeroSkin
12-01-2010, 21:52
I really do not agree with the developers to cut back to only 4 skills that can be hotkeyed at one time. Why why why not more than that? What's positive about it?
Wirt
The developers want to make a game that is "so easy you can play with just the mouse". Having more than 4 hotkeyed skills will work counter to the gameplay style they are encouraging. I agree with them that clickfest action games don't need more than 4 or 5 attacks - anything more can get confusing and detract from enjoyability of such a fast paced game. I'm sure it'll be advantageous to focus on 4 or 5 abilities that you want to buff so you can succeed in the game, which to me feels about right.
At the same time, if you want to assign more skills to more hotkeys, I'm betting that will be an option, but your hero might struggle to survive.
KillaMike
12-01-2010, 23:16
depends on character, depends how many skills i have to use on each chracter i got different amount of hotkeys, from less number of hotkeys, to a lot: 3 hotkeys --> 16 hotkeys ( not kidding )
one of main reasons for such a huge difference, is prebuffing, changing aura at certain time ( like cleansing for w2 ) or casting dim vision / amp / lr and so on.
it doesnt matter how many hotkeys you got, matter is: how many skills you going to use? i know i ll try them all, but later... i ll need some room for "advanced" gaming with tons of hotkeys, etc, etc
GoldenBird
13-01-2010, 01:52
The developers want to make a game that is "so easy you can play with just the mouse". Having more than 4 hotkeyed skills will work counter to the gameplay style they are encouraging. I agree with them that clickfest action games don't need more than 4 or 5 attacks - anything more can get confusing and detract from enjoyability of such a fast paced game. I'm sure it'll be advantageous to focus on 4 or 5 abilities that you want to buff so you can succeed in the game, which to me feels about right.
At the same time, if you want to assign more skills to more hotkeys, I'm betting that will be an option, but your hero might struggle to survive.
It's stupid though. Yea, maybe it's only meant for like 4 skills, but that doesn't mean it should limit us. There's absolutely no reason to limit us. We should have the freedom to hotkey as many as we want. It's not like limiting our ability to hotkey has any advantage, just as not impairing us gives us any disadvantage.
And like the guy above said, just stuff like prebuffing is much more convenient with hotkeys. I don't want to have to pick through all my skills just to get going. By the time I'm done whatever I've buffed will have run out of its duration by that time...
Anyway, I think it's a totally stupid move. I don't see any reason at all as to why I can't hotkey more than 4 skills.
Technically it's seven skills. 1234 on the hot bar, one to left mouse button, and two to the right mouse button that can be switched by pressing tab or the mouse wheel. 8 if you count the dedicated potion button assigned to 5.
The limited number is to set a precedent, saying "this number of skills is enough". Having more hotkeys will make people want to fill them, winding up with more skills than they can manage, while a limit would encourage them to focus. It's not so bad anyway. If the Barbarian gameplay movie is to be trusted, then it will be easy to load a new skill into the hotbar.
Look, I played at Blizzcon 09, and 5 skills felt just about right. Witch Doctor had Skull of Flame, Corpse Spiders, summon mongrel, and Horrify. then I bought Sacrifice and I had my hands full.
Do we really need that sort of encouragement to limit the skills.
diablo 2 does not have that system and I think most builds don't use more then 7 skill based hotkeys. So I see little reason to include it to limit the nnumber of skills used.
however, a limited number of builds do, and they do it for a good reason. They do it because it's needed. forinstance, hybrid builds already have 3 or 4 attacks, a few buffs and you're past that.
And you're saying that we will have 7 skills to pick. Is that even true? With the absence of healing potions, one of those is going to be a heal skill. And eventhough town portals are going to be rare, one of those is going to be occupied by town portals - or do those have a separate hot key? And then, it seems like fast movement will be more important, so one of those skills to go to that skills.
That's just 4 left.
They are limiting us while they should be encouraging us through some fancy, smart system. Though I guess they just don't want to take the challenges on.
Hi!
The skillbar system is a definite upgrade from the F-button hell. Eaven if it's 7+1 buttons it's alot better what F-buttons gave. Skillbar makes you able to use different skills by pressing one button, not like in D2 where you had to press F-button to change to a skill to a buff skill, press mouse button, press F-button again to change the attack on. Skillbar enables alot faster paced gameplay.
To me the number of buttons seems a bit too well suited for a console pad that they aren't actually working on a console version. 8 buttons is what PS controllers support easilly and i guess X-Box controllers can support that too. The thing is that it's really easy to develope games for console platforms at the same time nowadays so it might be that they are keeping all the doors open atm.
Tbh i don't see any reason why the skillbar couldn't expand to 13 buttons (1-10 and 3 for mouse). Use the buttons or not, but it woulnd't hurt anyone. Still as said earlyer i also don't see many builds having more than 7 active skills. Atm i think that WD could run into a limiting factor if he has to dedicate 3 buttons for summons only. Other characters/builds atm would consist 3-5 offensive skills to 2-3 defensive skills at maximum.
Also...
And you're saying that we will have 7 skills to pick. Is that even true? With the absence of healing potions, one of those is going to be a heal skill. And eventhough town portals are going to be rare, one of those is going to be occupied by town portals - or do those have a separate hot key? And then, it seems like fast movement will be more important, so one of those skills to go to that skills.
That's just 4 left.
As said above, healing potions are bound to key 5...
rrrrathmaberollinhisrs
13-01-2010, 07:35
...and two to the right mouse button that can be switched by pressing tab or the mouse wheel...
That's the only thing that strikes me as odd about this system. Why not just use the click function of the mouse wheel? I hope you can configure that.
Still as said earlyer i also don't see many builds having more than 7 active skills. Atm i think that WD could run into a limiting factor if he has to dedicate 3 buttons for summons only.
I don't know, look at the barbarian. You probably want atleast one skill for each fury cost and a no fury cost skill so you can gain fury without the need of using normal attack.
Then, there is atleast one interesting war cry and leap attack. that's already 6 skills leaving you with one possible additional skill. Either a high level attack or a buff or defensive skill or that healing skill.
The fury system doesn't really seem fit for that limitation. You already have 2 skills that you probably wouldn't take in a non fury system.
As said above, healing potions are bound to key 5...
Then you need to start at 8 and not 7, so you still end up on 4.
P.S. I too think it would be interesting to make tab switch between 2 sets. That way you have enough hot keys for almost all possible builds and you can make skill sets for different situations. one for normal play, one for bosses. one for low fury play, one for high. one for buffing, one for playing etc.
[edit]
@ KillaMike: 16 hotkeys. What kind of build is that?
Hi!
That's the only thing that strikes me as odd about this system. Why not just use the click function of the mouse wheel? I hope you can configure that.
It might sound odd, but some mouses don't have scroll button. On top of this alot of the mouses have really crappy scroll buttons. You are keeping your hand at 1234 so tab is a really good button to press.
I don't know, look at the barbarian. You probably want atleast one skill for each fury cost and a no fury cost skill so you can gain fury without the need of using normal attack.
Then, there is atleast one interesting war cry and leap attack. that's already 6 skills leaving you with one possible additional skill. Either a high level attack or a buff or defensive skill or that healing skill.
The fury system doesn't really seem fit for that limitation. You already have 2 skills that you probably wouldn't take in a non fury system.
Yeah now you mention it eaven the new wizard resource will make you want to have more attack spells. I guess same goes with the monk.
Then you need to start at 8 and not 7, so you still end up on 4.
I ment that you don't need a healing skill as the healing potions are actually in the game. Players have 7+1 buttons for skills/potion.
P.S. I too think it would be interesting to make tab switch between 2 sets. That way you have enough hot keys for almost all possible builds and you can make skill sets for different situations. one for normal play, one for bosses. one for low fury play, one for high. one for buffing, one for playing etc.
True, this would still let the devs keep to their limited number of buttons to bind on, but you could atleast have two sets. IMO best compromise to have low amount of buttons and still have way to use many skills fastly.
To me the number of buttons seems a bit too well suited for a console pad that they aren't actually working on a console version
Now THAT would piss off a lot of people, having game functionally cut back to be able to port the game to consoles.
Wirt
Do we really need that sort of encouragement to limit the skills.
diablo 2 does not have that system and I think most builds don't use more then 7 skill based hotkeys. So I see little reason to include it to limit the nnumber of skills used.
however, a limited number of builds do, and they do it for a good reason. They do it because it's needed. forinstance, hybrid builds already have 3 or 4 attacks, a few buffs and you're past that.
And you're saying that we will have 7 skills to pick. Is that even true? With the absence of healing potions, one of those is going to be a heal skill. And eventhough town portals are going to be rare, one of those is going to be occupied by town portals - or do those have a separate hot key? And then, it seems like fast movement will be more important, so one of those skills to go to that skills.
That's just 4 left.
They are limiting us while they should be encouraging us through some fancy, smart system. Though I guess they just don't want to take the challenges on.
Okay, you have just lost all credibility on this forum by insisting there's a "Heal Skill". Not to mention I said in my post that potions are back. And there is no run key any more. As for Town Portals, just give them key 6.
Tab to switch skills might not be such a good idea. It would only work well for persistent skills like Buffs and Summons. The reason there are only 2 skills on the mouse wheel instead of three is because Blizzard doesn't want people to have to search for their skills in the heat of combat. "Mousewheel up" is twice as complex as "mousewheel". Same thing as "Bar 2 + hotkey 4" is twice as complicated as just "Hotkey 4".
Anyway I'm sure the point is moot because I theorize the new skill system will limit how many active skills you can choose.
Okay, you have just lost all credibility on this forum by insisting there's a "Heal Skill". Not to mention I said in my post that potions are back. And there is no run key any more. As for Town Portals, just give them key 6.
Like you ever give me any credit to begin with...
Anyway,
The barbarian has revenge.
The witch doctor has Soul Harvest which comes close enough if you ask me.
2/4 is enough at the moment - I'm having exams.
Besides what makes you so sure that there isn't going to be healing properties for all classes. The original diablo 2 version has them.
P.S. So you claim that the potion feast is back. Good know, I didn't know this. And I don't see why it's relevant.
P.P.S. Now, we see that barbarian has a healing skill. Thus, this means that what I said still stands. The barbarian will probably occupy one of his skills for this one. I know I would anyway. And that means the skillbar might become quite limiting.
You insist that every player should take a skill that heals. And soul harvest restores mana, not health last time I checked.
Thanks for admitting you don't know about Potions. Potions are back, but they heal instantly and are on a cooldown, about a minute I believe.
Hi!
What you guys think. If there is a button to swap 2 sets of buttons, should it be so that you need to press it down to get the other skills to show and when you release that button then the normal ones come back. Or do you think it just needs to be a toggle button for the 2 different sets? OFC option to choose wich one of these to use would be the best, but if thats out of the question what do you guys think?
Examples (to clerify what i mean):
1) You press Tab + 1 to activate skill on the second skillset and then when you release Tab you get the normal skillset back to your hotkeys.
2) You press Tab and after that 1 to activate skill on second skillset. To change the normal skillset back you have to press Tab again.
TBH if the first option is possilbe they should add another row to skills, but it would be quite challenging to show alternative skill for mouse buttons and still keep it simple enough. Maybe this could work for only 1-4? :/ Idea of this is that it would be alot faster to use "o****" buttons from second skillset.
PS: Just to mention....
Okay, you have just lost all credibility on this forum by insisting there's a "Heal Skill". Not to mention I said in my post that potions are back. And there is no run key any more. As for Town Portals, just give them key 6.
I think NASE ment skills that help moving around, like sprint or teleport. This kind of sad try to bash someone, no matter how low credit i give to him, shows really how much credibility you have. Also you can't assume that everyone is on top of the latest information. Expecially when someone has been around since 2006.
Thanks for admitting you don't know about Potions. Potions are back, but they heal instantly and are on a cooldown, about a minute I believe.
Potions are back = potionfest. As that's how it used to be.
And just why is that relevant?
Saying they are back confuses me. And they aren't back, they simply are implemented differently.
Guess we both were confusing.
@ Typoko: Second option no doubt. If you really want to have two different sets for different situation, this approach works much easier. Else you need to keep tab pressed way to long forinstance, with boss fights.
The other options seems good for buffing, but not much else.
Offcourse, noting prevents them from implementing two keys, one for each option. Or allow us to change to what we like in the key configurations.
@ Typoko _take 2: I agree, I have no idea what that run was doing there.
KillaMike
15-01-2010, 11:09
[edit]
@ KillaMike: 16 hotkeys. What kind of build is that?
it was hammer din, with all auras assigned, and use of bhammer charge, teleport, smite as well.
i assigned all auras to every situation, and it paid off. ( havent died once, but thnx for salvation before i got gear, other wise i d be toasted on couple of unsafe tps )
Knight_Wolf
15-01-2010, 13:27
it was hammer din, with all auras assigned, and use of bhammer charge, teleport, smite as well.
i assigned all auras to every situation, and it paid off. ( havent died once, but thnx for salvation before i got gear, other wise i d be toasted on couple of unsafe tps )
You do realize auras are out of the game (at least until now) .... TQ had auras that you cast and they stay on as permanent buffs (you can disable them by recasting them again) and while they are active they either reserve a portion of your mana pool or slow your mana regeneration (one of the the many things TQ did better than D2).
So i don't think D3 devs will ever bring back the D2 archiac D2 Auras system ... if they ever played TQ they surely realized that TQ aura system is far superior and much more streamlined (and can be used with a limited skill bar ...you just need to select an aura activate it and then remove it from the bar)
Besides ... valid builds that use almost half the skills given to class are very rare .. they are nothing to tailor the entire game skill usage system for.
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Potions are back = potionfest. As that's how it used to be.
Sorry, but that doesn't make any spec of sense at all .... potions+cool down =/= potionfest no matter how you look at it .. specially if the cool down is 1 min and health globes will be dropping during combat.
So you are encouraged to kill monsters instead of going around aimlessly in circles waiting for the potion cool down to go away which is freaking boring (as in other games with potion cool downs like TQ) .. and that's why Health globes were added in the first place.
Saying they are back confuses me. And they aren't back, they simply are implemented differently.
Back as in "people thought they were removed from the game" kind of "back" .. and some still think that till today.
@ Typoko: Second option no doubt. If you really want to have two different sets for different situation, this approach works much easier. Else you need to keep tab pressed way to long forinstance, with boss fights.
The other options seems good for buffing, but not much else.
Offcourse, noting prevents them from implementing two keys, one for each option. Or allow us to change to what we like in the key configurations.
Fact is ... TQ had 12 skill slots on the skill bar .. IMO they were more than enough i even never used all 12 slots (6 for skills and 2 for potions they totaled 8 slots) ... and in the TQ expansion they added a shortcut "w" that switches to an extra skill bar totaling 24 skill slots (12 on each bar) .. i thought that's kinda ridiculous and wold only be used by someone who is just wants to use every skill available in the game for this class with a single character.
Although i have to admit there is a feature they introduced in TQ expansion that might warrat the extra slots ... it was scrolls items that can be activated to cast spells even if your character isn't a magic user .. kinda like charges .. and they were placed in the skill bar for quick access ..... still i think even 12 is way too much ... D3 7 skill slots approach is just right ... a max of 10 would have been nice .. but i don't see it as a subject for complaining at all as it is.
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