View Full Version : Does anyone feel let down by the WD's mana system?
After we've learned that Blizzard is lavishing so much attention on the other 4 classes to give them unique mana resources, doesn't it feel sort of off that the Witch Doctor is stuck with boring old mana?
I'd like to think that the Witch Doctor's mana system incorporates health (or health sacrifice) in some way. It would reflect the darkness of his archetype.
What do you guys think?
dmdnomad
06-01-2010, 20:30
Witch doctor unfortunely for being the most unique class to date is also the one the seems to be seeing the least amount of attention. the monk is great but witch docter has never been done before.
why give him mana anyways? hes a witch and a doctor, regeants seem more viable for his type of class than an actual mana system anyways. as much as its a huge rip off, runic power(or something along the similar means) would be a better fit to the WD.
being he would need to have his charges up to use his skills, while making it impossible to spam skills. regeants for his passive skills or even offensive defensive skills.
rrrrathmaberollinhisrs
07-01-2010, 01:28
I wouldn't really be worried about it. The WD being part summoner is going to be the one of the four of them that I think uses his spells the least. The Wizard will be casting constantly and therefore mana replenishing would be counter to quick gameplay. Barb is always using his skills in melee and same with monk. WD is the only one that can sit back and strategize a bit and because he can steal mana from demons souls mana fits him the best with him using soul energy. I wouldn't worry. It's not like he's gonna have this boring blue orb when everyone else has a special thing. If it does happen that he's the only mana user they'll give his mana orb a special graphic for him with souls floating around in it or something themed and it'll look nice.
Cause when you think about - the others are using mana as well... it's a resource that's expended to cast, and replenishes somehow - it's just they get free mana leach in certain ways by killing things (barb) or however the sorc does it (by excessive casting or measuring spell casting or being careful about what spells follow each other or whatever).
Also magic-resource for summons is different than magic-resource for damage spells. Spells you just cast. And cast. But if you can summon forever than you're never really in danger. Mana fits best because it needs to be a more general magic resource to give the user the option of summoning when he wants as well making summons have worth and strategy.
Well, mana was always linked to being a spiritual energy :P
And the whole health sacrifice concept can be done without changing mana as as a resource.
Mana fits well the WD, there's no reason to change it.
Mad Mantis
08-01-2010, 16:39
Mana fits well the WD, there's no reason to change it.
Just as it would have fit well with the Wiz and even the Monk. It appears at this point that they are changing things just to have something different. Lack of mana makes sense for the Barb and even the Monk, but it would have made perfect sense for both the WD and the Wiz.
I've got to agree with Naja that the WD seems to be lacking attention. After they blurted out the first concept it seems that they are at a loss as to what to do with the character. Just getting mana instead of an unique systems seems to be the latest symptom of neglect.
I've never been a big fan of the whole health sacrifice thing...other classes don't have to sacrifice health to deal damage, why should I pick one that does?
Apart from that I agree, if the Witch Doctor is just left with a plain old mana system that won't be very interesting compared to the more unique systems.
My only idea for a Witch Doctor resource would be something like blood or bones from their victims. This spell costs XX amount of shrunken heads to cast. Need more shrunken heads! They'd have to do it in such a way that the first few kills of a game aren't horrible though.
Even if he is left with plain old mana as you say, it still is not like D2, and out of mana, drink, or have "meditation" aura.
You have Spirit Vessel (http://www.diablowiki.net/Spirit_Vessel), Soul Harvest (http://www.diablowiki.net/Soul_Harvest), Meditation (http://www.diablowiki.net/Meditation).
If you are not a fan of health sacrifice, WD may by not you choice. It's not like he's just jungle born wizzard, he uses ritual magic, and it seems reasonable that in some cases he must use his own blood to strengthen the ritual if he lacks enough spiritual force.
And with his Mongrels (http://www.diablowiki.net/Summon_Zombie_Dog) as your meat shield and spell strengthener (Leader of the Pack (http://www.diablowiki.net/Leader_of_the_Pack)), while using Unrelenting Assault (http://www.diablowiki.net/Unrelenting_Assault) and Parasite (http://www.diablowiki.net/Parasite) would be almost self sustain caster.
Is that really makes mana plain and boring?
Even if he is left with plain old mana as you say, it still is not like D2, and out of mana, drink, or have "meditation" aura.
You have Spirit Vessel (http://www.diablowiki.net/Spirit_Vessel), Soul Harvest (http://www.diablowiki.net/Soul_Harvest), Meditation (http://www.diablowiki.net/Meditation).
If you are not a fan of health sacrifice, WD may by not you choice. It's not like he's just jungle born wizzard, he uses ritual magic, and it seems reasonable that in some cases he must use his own blood to strengthen the ritual if he lacks enough spiritual force.
And with his Mongrels (http://www.diablowiki.net/Summon_Zombie_Dog) as your meat shield and spell strengthener (Leader of the Pack (http://www.diablowiki.net/Leader_of_the_Pack)), while using Unrelenting Assault (http://www.diablowiki.net/Unrelenting_Assault) and Parasite (http://www.diablowiki.net/Parasite) would be almost self sustain caster.
Does that really make mana plain and boring?
Yes, because all of your examples require the Witch Doctor to be reliant on specific skills or specific builds.
A unique, functional resource system should not threaten character customization.
You should be able to enjoy a unique feature with any kind of skills or build. Just like the Barbarian can with Fury, for example.
Well if you look at Barb, he also have resource specific skills that "threaten" customization: Bad Temper (http://www.diablowiki.net/Bad_Temper), Enrage (http://www.diablowiki.net/Enrage). And skills that gives more health, in one way or another, Scavenge (http://www.diablowiki.net/Scavenge) to mention something basic, which he may need as melee fighter, so it's not so in my opinion different from WD example.
Well, the WD has consistently seemed to be a very problematic class, development-wise, for the devs. If this is still the case, if they're still trying to find out who and what they want the WD to actually be, then I would guess that giving him mana as his resource is a result of this. It's a familiar system, one they know how to implement successfully and one which is relatively un-complex. Really, I think they just didn't want to give themselves an even bigger headache by trying to think up some new resource system for a class they're still trying to figure out.
GuardianHadriel
11-01-2010, 05:19
They should simplify the fury system...maybe make it more like the rage system from you-know-where
Actually it is like rage, just with stages signed with burning orb, so you won't need to look at numerical state of you have enough to use skill or not. And it fills faster than rage as for BC 2009 build.
While Blizzard have discussed some issues with the Witch Doctor (if I recall correctly), I think it may have been a little overblown by the fandom.
Blizzard wants each class to have a unique resource system, but I don't think that the Witch Doctor is 'stuck' with mana simply due to lack of attention.
The impression I get is that Blizzard is really pushing the 'flavour' of mana in Diablo 3 as supernatural spiritual energy (as opposed to 'religious' spirit like what the monk might have).
As for the Wizard, she dabbles in the arcane, and there now seems to be a strong distinction between the two types of magic.
From a lore standpoint, the Witch Doctor would be the class who draws the most from this resource.
While Blizzard have discussed some issues with the Witch Doctor (if I recall correctly), I think it may have been a little overblown by the fandom.
Blizzard wants each class to have a unique resource system, but I don't think that the Witch Doctor is 'stuck' with mana simply due to lack of attention.
The impression I get is that Blizzard is really pushing the 'flavour' of mana in Diablo 3 as supernatural spiritual energy (as opposed to 'religious' spirit like what the monk might have).
As for the Wizard, she dabbles in the arcane, and there now seems to be a strong distinction between the two types of magic.
From a lore standpoint, the Witch Doctor would be the class who draws the most from this resource.
1) I suppose the WD's apparent lack of direction may have been exaggerated a bit by fans, but I still can't help but feel as though he's a problem for the devs. Of course, I'm only making that judgement from a standpoint of very limited knowledge. It is this lack of information (i.e. we know much less about many fewer of his spells than that of the Wizard or Barb) that makes me think the devs are having problems, but there could be a number of reasons we know so little about him. I guess we just have to give it time.
2) I don't know if I would call it a "lack of attention." I believe the WD is certainly receiving his fair share of attention from the devs, maybe more. Giving him mana as a resource system would allow the devs to spend a more equal amount of time on all aspects of the game, rather than spending too much time on a single class.
3) I certainly appreciate that they're crafting what mana is in a way that makes it a fitting resource for the WD. It would simply be lazy of them to not explain why only the WD uses mana, why it's a type of energy specific to witch-doctoring.
4) I definitely see the distinction between the Wizard's type of magic and the WD's type of magic, even between the sorc's magic and the WD's. I don't, however, fully understand what it is about the Wizard's "high magic" that makes it so different from the Sorc and WD that it doesn't use mana. I guess that's a question I should take to the Wizard forums, though.
5) I do agree, if mana is being spun as a more spiritual kind of energy that you described. And certainly I would rather see the WD using mana than the Barb :wink:
I don't mean to sound like I'm getting down on the D3 team for giving the WD the age-old system of mana. At least we know that it's a system that works well enough. I'd rather have them focus on the WD's skills than on some new resource system anyway.
Thrakhath
06-02-2010, 10:06
The Witch Doctor has come a really long way since I last looked on here (which was a very long time ago) and I have to say, I am really impressed. Too many negative threads on here, so I just wanted to say why I like the Witch Doctor so much.
Firstly, he now feels original. Early on I was worried he would be some kind of cross between a D2 sorceress and a D2 necromancer, and I really wasn't keen on the idea of lots of direct damage spells. Now he has a really different feel to him - he focusses on damage over time spells in a big way, alongside careful mana management.
Which brings me to the second reason I love him - the mana resource. Resource management is what made the necromancer in D2 so good - he used mana, he collected minions, he used corpses and even items to cast his spells, whereas everyone else just used mana. In D3, the Witch doctor uses mana, feeds off enemies to get mana using spells like Soul Harvest, collects minions and uses them to boost spell damage or sacrifice, and even uses health to summon minions.
Mana is [I]perfect[I] for the Witch Doctor, absolutely perfect. He does not really have spammable spells, running out of mana is not a disaster as he can still summon and will probably have DoT spells still active, and 'feeding' off enemies with spells like Soul Harvest just sounds so much fun. Whereas mana for a wizard just made no sense - run out of mana and you're just running away til it comes back.
Tidolwav
06-02-2010, 21:43
Don't really feel let down about anything, yet. I'm just waiting for it to come out now, which hopefully will be early next year.. I'll let Blizzard do what they do best and that's perfect everything they can as best as they can. Jay's policy is, if it's not fun, it'll be scrapped unless there is nothing better they can come up with. What I'm saying is, let it happen (game ships) then complain if you don't like it.
*edit* Sorry it sounds kind of like a troll post, I don't mean it like that, I'm just trying to be caring in that I don't want anyone to feel "let down" by anything yet! My bad.
Whats wrong with mana? It's the only energy system that ever makes sense to me:afro: :whistling:
Sequitur
13-02-2010, 22:33
Sounds to me as if the complaint is not really against the mechanic's, but rather that WD resource name wasn't changed. Doesn't really seem like a big deal to me.
D1: Mana uses pots to replenish.
D2: Mana uses pots to replenish, modifiers on items, small amount of skill based modifiers.
D3: No mana pots, replenishment heavily augmented by skills, if not solely. Maybe some weapon modifiers.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if your concern is that your stuck with boring old mana...well..it's not even really mana as it was originally conceived. It's new SUPER MEGA-LIGHTNING MANA!
But still called Mana...and not Spirit Juice or Spell Fuel or Popcorn Kernels..
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