Things in Torchlight you would like to see in D3

[theeliminator]

There are a few things in Torchlight I would like to see in D3. I like the way they handle Transmuting and Enchanting items. Two things I think would work well in D3. What do you think would work well in D3?

[Turnip]

I hope they make d3 a hell of a lot faster paced, and give the spells a lot larger aoe. Its relatively boring.

Edit) really really boring, forgot how bad the "skills" are.

[TheMiddleRoad]

Eh, its not that bad. I'd like D3 to be faster paced.

Also I hate, hate hate breaking barrels. Why do games keep incorporating these into the environment? Its like the urns in d2 all over again

[CCCenturion]

I love the idea of having a pet take care of your errands in town for you.

Also, the shared stash idea is a godsend for anyone who doesn't just keep the gear they're wearing on their main toon.

[slingblade]

Sending a pet to town to vendor your junk is the best thing since sliced bread!

I hope they make d3 a hell of a lot faster paced, and give the spells a lot larger aoe. Its relatively boring.

Edit) really really boring, forgot how bad the "skills" are.

Have you even played it past level 5?

[CCCenturion]

It doesn't even need to be a pet; it would be more realistic to have your merc go take care of it for you. (And more useful than having your merc actually fight, most of the time.)

[blikst]

I hope they make d3 a hell of a lot faster paced, and give the spells a lot larger aoe. Its relatively boring.

Edit) really really boring, forgot how bad the "skills" are.

Uhm, that's just a lie. Go play it again and actually try out a few skills this time...

[Orphan]

I've only played the game to level 6 so far but it's the perfect game to scratch that itch. One of the things I quite like at the moment is the hotkeys, in that assigning something like haste to hotkey 4 allows me to cast it with the click of a button, as opposed to D2's method whereby the hotkey just selects the skill for right-click.

I also like the fast paced nature of the game. The movement is fluid, the action pretty much instant, the town relatively small and easy to navigate to find the required people, etc.

I'm also looking forward to the editor, something which D2 didn't really have and D3 is looking like it won't have either. It's going to add alot of extra life to the game.

[ThomasJ]

Why should Blizzard need to copy anything from Torchlight ? Oh I forgot, they didn't make Diablo or Diablo 2 so they need help hence why it is taking them a lifetime to make Diablo 3. I think, well I'm sure Blizzard can use their own ideas right ?

[Orphan]

Why should Blizzard need to copy anything from Torchlight ? Oh I forgot, they didn't make Diablo or Diablo 2 so they need help hence why it is taking them a lifetime to make Diablo 3. I think, well I'm sure Blizzard can use their own ideas right ?

It's not about copying in a derogatory sense. As games evolve they start to introduce more useful features that make you go "wow, why didn't anyone think of that before?".

I'm sure Diablo 3 is going to introduce alot of new things on it's own accord, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't take a page or two out of a book from another game, especially if what they see works very well and is highly used by the players.

Would you prefer the opposite where once a feature is included in the game it doesn't get included in other games because otherwise it'll be copying them? Like, since Torchlight has extensive functions for pets (aggressive, passive, etc stances, carrying items, running errands) that Blizzard cannot include this stuff into D3 even though it makes life a hell of a lot easier for the player?

It's really just a discussion on what aspects of Torchlight appear interesting and useful, that could also serve a purpose in D3. If Blizzard already thought of it, or even improved on it in their own way then all the better.

[Srikandi]

D3 is full of ideas from other games, and there's nothing wrong with that. Game developers are always looking at what's worked somewhere else.

Torchlight has completely solved the money sink problem. With Transmuting you can turn your excess vendor trash into gems... but that means you're not selling it... which removes a big source of income. And meantime, you can pay to get random enchantments on an item, with the cost getting higher for more powerful items... AND there's a gambling NPC a la D2. It's the only RPG I've ever found myself chronically broke in (which sucks when suddenly the vendor has that rare spell you've been needing).

[ThomasJ]

It's not about copying in a derogatory sense. As games evolve they start to introduce more useful features that make you go "wow, why didn't anyone think of that before?".

I'm sure Diablo 3 is going to introduce alot of new things on it's own accord, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't take a page or two out of a book from another game, especially if what they see works very well and is highly used by the players.

Would you prefer the opposite where once a feature is included in the game it doesn't get included in other games because otherwise it'll be copying them? Like, since Torchlight has extensive functions for pets (aggressive, passive, etc stances, carrying items, running errands) that Blizzard cannot include this stuff into D3 even though it makes life a hell of a lot easier for the player?

It's really just a discussion on what aspects of Torchlight appear interesting and useful, that could also serve a purpose in D3. If Blizzard already thought of it, or even improved on it in their own way then all the better.

I just really hope they bring something new to the table for Diablo 3. I understand what you are saying but so far Blizzard hasn't shown us anything innovative for Diablo 3. It just seems they are just remodeling Diablo 2 which isn't totally a bad thing but you would think with all the money that have they can hire some people who just don't do what has been done before.

I been a big fan of Diablo and the Starcraft series for a long time but other than the fact I haven't played those games in ages there really hasn't much to get really excited about Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2 for that matter. Not much innovation going on at all.

[vladgd]

i would like to see hirelings that always stay your level. im pretty sure im not the only person who hates merc leveling.

[Orphan]

I just really hope they bring something new to the table for Diablo 3. I understand what you are saying but so far Blizzard hasn't shown us anything innovative for Diablo 3. It just seems they are just remodeling Diablo 2 which isn't totally a bad thing but you would think with all the money that have they can hire some people who just don't do what has been done before.


While it's true that I don't think any of us want a D2 clone for D3, I think we've barely scratched the surface for D3 to be honest :scratchchin: I suspect there's alot of things that Blizzard are keeping below the waters that we aren't even aware of, and probably won't know until we're actually sitting down and playing the released game.

[theeliminator]

I just really hope they bring something new to the table for Diablo 3. I understand what you are saying but so far Blizzard hasn't shown us anything innovative for Diablo 3. It just seems they are just remodeling Diablo 2 which isn't totally a bad thing but you would think with all the money that have they can hire some people who just don't do what has been done before.

I been a big fan of Diablo and the Starcraft series for a long time but other than the fact I haven't played those games in ages there really hasn't much to get really excited about Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2 for that matter. Not much innovation going on at all.

I don't know about you but life not being about how many health pots you have, Runes that alter how spells work and each class not using mana (save for the WD) is a 3 big innovations to the Diablo series. I am sure these are just the tip of the iceberg. We have no idea what PvP is going to be about. In the end though its going to be a Diablo game not something totally different.

[Srikandi]

life not being about how many health pots you have, Runes that alter how spells work and each class not using mana (save for the WD) is a 3 big innovations to the Diablo series.

All games, including D3, are a mix of new and old. It's inevitable. These things are new to the Diablo series, yes. But they're only partly new.

Collectible "orbs" or whatever left on the field after battle is a long-time staple of certain kinds of games, though it's not been seen much among RPGs (Borderland's instahealth vials work more or less the same way, for instance; you can't put em in your pack. And Fable's experience globes are really the same mechanic applied to XP rather than health).

As for spell modifications, I've seen that before too, though not via a dropped item. For instance, Sacred 2 and the Witcher both let you modify spells, though in both of those games you gain the mods through spending points when you level, and there's no attempt to make a common set of mods that works across every skill in the game.

As for different energy sources with different mechanics for different classes, I think WoW might actually have originated that idea, though they didn't take it to the logical conclusion of having a different mechanic for every single class.

So, yeah, D3 is like a wedding outfit: something old, something new, something borrowed, and... wait... does it have anything blue? ;)

[theeliminator]

All games, including D3, are a mix of new and old. It's inevitable. These things are new to the Diablo series, yes. But they're only partly new.

That’s why I said new to the Diablo series, and not new to gaming. One thing everyone has to come to grips with is Bliz is not some great innovator. They are just masters of refinement. Meaning they take an idea that’s already around and polish it up so nice and shiny. Not many would argue that each game they have came out with wasn't the best of its genre for its time.

[TiberiusAudley]

Torchlight has completely solved the money sink problem. With Transmuting you can turn your excess vendor trash into gems... but that means you're not selling it... which removes a big source of income. And meantime, you can pay to get random enchantments on an item, with the cost getting higher for more powerful items... AND there's a gambling NPC a la D2. It's the only RPG I've ever found myself chronically broke in (which sucks when suddenly the vendor has that rare spell you've been needing).

Well, the Enchanter was a feature they had in both Hellgate: London and Mythos... but I agree that it is an excellent moneysink.

It's a bit imbalanced in Torchlight right now. I expect that'll be fixed in patches/mods, but it's a really cost-efficient method of improving your character.

But the main features I'd like to see in D3 that are in Torchlight: Good Money Sinks, Shared Stash, TSPs (vendors in the middle of a dungeon), and the ability to get rid of useless loot while I'm out adventuring.

[theeliminator]

the ability to get rid of useless loot while I'm out adventuring.

This would really be nice to have in D3. I don't think they will have the same system of sending off a pet/henchmen to sell items. (I could be wrong on that though) I can see them giving you some kind of artifact that turns any unwanted items into gold. Just click on the artifact and your cursor becomes a wand, hover the wand over an unwanted item and click to make it turn to gold.

[Srikandi]

This would really be nice to have in D3. I don't think they will have the same system of sending off a pet/henchmen to sell items. (I could be wrong on that though) I can see them giving you some kind of artifact that turns any unwanted items into gold. Just click on the artifact and your cursor becomes a wand, hover the wand over an unwanted item and click to make it turn to gold.

Yeah, both Dungeon Siege and Sacred 2 had a feature like that. In DS it's a spell that turns stuff on the ground into gold; in Sacred, it's a button on the interface that you can drop items on. In both cases you get somewhat less than if you went to a vendor, which means it's worth hanging on to the most valuable items.

I agree that however it's implemented, any feature that makes going to town for inventory-management-only reasons unnecessary is highly desirable. I don't mind traveling back to turn in quests and the like, since I can take advantage of vendors then.

[LODjunkie]

Eh, its not that bad. I'd like D3 to be faster paced.

Also I hate, hate hate breaking barrels. Why do games keep incorporating these into the environment? Its like the urns in d2 all over again


Ahh, Barrels, the true enemy to the avid dungeon hunter... xD


I also enjoy the fast pacidness of Torchlight...half the time its an endless onlslaught of bodies on the floor.. that always makes me feel good, unless 1 of the bodies is mine... then , not so much....

Some of the skills are a bit under powered, some are over powered... But like most have said, its just a matter of time before the editor comes out.

Right now the thing that is starting to get to me is the slow load times.. I mean , they arnt horrible... its just that it takes so long for me to get my fix damn it!!!

[Merklyn]

having a pet sell stuff for you or a similar mechanic is definitely something i like from Torchlight that i wouldn't mind seeing implemented in D3 somehow. it lets you stay down in the dungeon longer and focus more on just the fun part about the game ie. killing stuff and getting more lewt!!

i also like the fact that the pet doesn't need babystting. when i first heard about it i thought it sounded like a chore, where i'd have to monitor it's status constantly to keep it alive just to retain it's usefulness down in the dungeon. this is one reason i never bothered with mercs in D2. but it's very strong and perfectly able to help itself in most situations. the best part is that if you do neglect it and it runs out of health, the pet doesn't die but just 'flees' until you heal it or it regens its own health and rejoins the fray. being able to toggle it to offensive, defensive or passive mode at a click of the mouse is also useful.

global stash is a great idea for transferring items to other characters. such a simple thing can solve the hassle of multiple mule accounts and complicated item transfers!

dungeon maps sold at NPCs is another idea i really liked, however in D3 i would like it if they were maps to specific, unique dungeons, with their own lore and monster theme. these could be created by the D3 team in between patches and introduced in new patches to give the player more content for going off on sidequests, finding new uniques, rares, etc... imagine going up to an NPC and finding a new map for sale to a new unexplored dungeon with a new powerful item just perfect for your character! much better than being yet another portal to a random-gen dungeon with random monsters and random drops and... might as well just stay on the main quest.

oh, and yes i hate the barrel, urn etc. thing too. just the thought that you might be missing some awesome item in one of those things is enough to make you want break every single last one of them, early on in the game anyway, that it breaks the flow of the action. if you're going to have an element in the game that breaks the action for even a little while, like a treasure chest or basket or barrel, etc. have it be sparse and meaningful and drop good lewt, not all over the place and drop crap 99.9% of the time yet the .1% could be some l33t drop.

[delosombres]

/Sarcasm on

Things in Torchlight you would like to see in D3

What about totally gamebreaking enchantment system? That exact same stupid system used in FATE which even those sacred "big makers of Diablo" (as lot of people argue) just were not be able to fix. After years? After Mythos? It is absurd. They certainly never played FATE nor betatested Torchlight. I have no words. It is either stupid or ignorant. :banghead: I'm amazed at how many people just can not see this dilettantish approach. And before you start to bash me just for my opinion, try to think about what I wrote at least for a few seconds.

[theeliminator]

/Sarcasm on



What about totally gamebreaking enchantment system? That exact same stupid system used in FATE which even those sacred "big makers of Diablo" (as lot of people argue) just were not be able to fix. After years? After Mythos? It is absurd. They certainly never played FATE nor betatested Torchlight. I have no words. It is either stupid or ignorant. :banghead: I'm amazed at how many people just can not see this dilettantish approach. And before you start to bash me just for my opinion, try to think about what I wrote at least for a few seconds.

What part of that was sarcastic?

You have a right to have your own opinion but just because the enchantment system is not perfect in the games you mentioned doesn't mean that Bliz wouldn't test it enough and get it right.

[qOcOp]

Shared Stash. Inifinite dungeon.

[blikst]

Things I'd like to see:
The pet system. (or something similar)
Fishing. There is nothing like battle through hordes of enemies before stopping for a peaceful moment of fishing. ;)
Interactive characters. (like having people fighting beside you for a while)

Things I don't want to see:
The long loading times.

[Charons]

i've been having fun with torchlight too. A patch to fix crash problems and load times is hopefully coming this week according to devs.

Things i am liking thus far. Shared stash, pet to town. The hotkeys are easy to use. I haven't had to resort to the Fkeys tho. Assigning skills to the pet is pretty cool too. A nice feature though would be to give it all the fish and have it randomly choose one from time to time.

Things I'm not crazy about. (but don't hate, just not loving them) The boss fights are boring and quite easy. (I'm down to like lvl 21-22) They are purely tank and spanks. spam health pots to stay alive. Blizzard learned a great deal in WoW about making boss fights much more challenging. I'm really really hoping they bring that to D3. I'm in the minority on this I think but I will be happy to not have to do my stats points myself. It sounds like the D3 system will be much better in character customization than this system of worrying about misplacing points. So far I've pretty much dropped all points in strength and defense though, so I think I've done ok. I remember reading up more on D2 years after I originally played to finally realize how badly I had distributed my points.

This game is very impressive though for 11 months of work. Keep in mind though that its just one town. D3 is going to have many towns and a much larger world. (thus why its not taking them 11 months but much longer) I also expect the story to be far more advanced. From what I've read from the Torchlight forums, I'm pretty much close to finished with the story line after only a couple days playing (for a few hour intervals of play) That is pretty fast. I'm not complaining though. 11months to make the game, 20bucks to buy, it is the perfect hold over till D3

[captain]

-Me too. I think pets or a steady merc. is a great idea. I prefer to have both though. Especially since i play single player most of the time.
-a shared stash is great too. no need to mule
- Hot keys are a must. especially for a caster.
- I like seeing the character on the bag screen too. Its nice to see the armor on your tune. since Blizz puts so much in to art work they should show it off more.

[Lucryd]

This is just minor, but i like being able to pick up gold just by walking over it. It beats clicking every square to get it, and its funner that way.

[ArrowofThyme]

I'm surprised that so many people mention hotkeys... Diablo3 promises to have a good system for using many spells and Diablo2 let you assign many spells to be quickly swapped to your mouse keys. Torchlight only lets you toggle between a measly TWO spells using tab. Sure, you have a hotbar, but you can't even click it, you must use the keys they assign! It is annoying and far less customizable than it should be.

I really like the spell scroll system: it adds more customization to the classes and your pet.

Urns and barrels are cool as long as you can explode a bunch of them with your abilities!

[cacophony]

The pet thing is stupid b/c the loot sells for so little you are better off not even picking it up. It's faster to kills stuff and pick up gold.

Identify scrolls have GOT to go (luckily, someone modded them out of Torchlight forever! Huzzah!)

A local town enchanter is a good idea, if you limit how many enchantments you can add.

Stat placement and stat requirements for gear have got to go.

Town scrolls and unlimited potions means you can play the game w/ one hand so you can drink a beer in the other. Score!

[Atelje]

Map Editor i would like to see in "Diablo3" i know they have answer that already but why??

I think ppl would not buy a new Expansion to Diablo3 if ppl can make there owns maps...

[Doctrinaire]

I don't really want to see many of Torchlight's novel features in Diablo III, to be honest.

The henchmen/pet vendor running isn't game-breaking but I'de rather do without it. Having to sell your own junk in town breaks up the gameplay in a positive way. You clear out your inventory, make a small fortune, and then blow it all on gambling. It's a fun little breather from the carnage. Also, it forces the player to put some consideration into what he picks up and what he doesn't. In Torchlight, I feel compelled to pick everything up and immediately give it to my pet, whites and all. No thought goes into it.

Enchanting is something else I feel doesn't belong in an action RPG. I want to spend my time looking for new stuff, not making investments in the stuff I already have. It turns finding new gear into a chore. "Oh, great. An upgrade just dropped. Now I've got to spend a bunch of time enchanting it to maximize its potential." I'm not necessarily opposed to some other take on the enchanting idea but Torchlight's implementation just isn't the way to go.

What else? Is automatic gold gathering new to Torchlight? That's something I wouldn't mind seeing. Set items with random attributes are also neat.

[Hp_Sauce]

I would like to second what somebody said earlier - Picking up gold just by running over/near it is an excellent feature.

I also enjoy the fact that town portals stay after exiting the game and returning. Obviously this would be difficult to implement in a multilayer environment though.

The pet running to town feature is really neat. But I'd happily go to town myself if the loading times were short. I also like the 'fleeing' instead if dieing feature.

For those people complaining about barrels/urns... I don't get it. If you don't like them, then just run past and ignore them. What's the problem?

-hps

[Famlith]

Okay, here goes :P
Torchlight was released by a company who is in league with Blizzard as a means by which they could gather feedback on what the fans like/dislike about many of the characteristics planned for Diablo 3.

That probably seems like a stupid idea, but let's have a look at a few different things.

1. Class similarities. We have the Destroyer (Warrior), Vanquisher (Rogue), Alchemist (sorceror) classes. The Destroyer skills are largely a mix of Barbarian and Paladin skills, while Alchemist is a mix of Sorc/Necro and Vanquisher is Ama/***. Don't believe me?
- Destroyer trees - Dual Wield (berserker)
- Single Target (focused)
- Auras and the Power of the Ancenstors :whistling:
- Vanquisher - Ranged/Marksman
- Dual-wield Melee
- Traps (including a renamed Wake of Inferno)
- Alchemist - Ranged Blastiness
- Summoning
- Close-range pwnage
2. Monster Similarities. I don't mean monster names here, I mean their appearances/abilities/actions. Some of the first creatures you run into in Torchlight have a message saying (Flees when Allies Perish) under their health bar. Now where have we seen that before? Also:
- Ratlin = Fallen
- Pygmy Chanters = Shaman (throw fireballs and res minions)
- Ratlin Foreman/Dwarven Battlemaster = Fallen Overseer (don't flee and enrage minions)
- Goblinhounds = Fallenhounds
- Enraged Goblins = Fallen Fanatics
- Pygmy Stabbers = the dreaded Fettishes
- Corrupted Zombies = lesser Mummies (explode into poison gass clouds on death)
Those comparisons are all based on mechanics. We also have walking trees with glowing holes for faces that leak smoke out of holes at the top of the trunk, and a species of Cat-People that tend to hit hard but die quickly.
3. Interface. Standard toolbar at the bottom with health/mana meters in the middle (excellent idea IMHO - no more gaze bouncing across the screen saves time :)). Basic attack bound to left mouse-button with 2 abilities mapped to RMB that are switched between via TAB. That's familiar... A row of hotkeys (1 - 0) that can be bound to skills and potions. We all know about the proposed belt for D3.
4. Items. The item names etc are not the same, but the classifications are. Normal - Uncommon - Rare - Unique. Set items can figure into both rare and unique categories (another interesting change). We also see Town Portal Scrolls, Waypoints, Checkpoints (only on death) and Identify Scrolls.
5. Spells. All characters can learn spells from specific scrolls, although only 4 known at any given time (6 counting the pet) in a manner reminiscent of D1. All classes have 3 skills called Offensive Mastery, Defensive Mastery and Charm mastery which increase the levels of the known spells from those types (which is also pretty sweet).

The general style of storyline etc is essentially a re-hashed D1 which also makes a direct comparison inevitable.

Overall, the thing I want to see carried over most would be the Vanquisher class as the final one for Diablo 3. The balance of Ranged/Melee and traps makes for a very versatile and interesting class to play and seems to fit with the ideas that many fans have for the final class.

[Detheroc]

I'd like "Followers" to actually have an inventory, so you can dump items on them too (but not necessarily ask them to go to town to sell it).

I also kinda like how Torchlight has spells that aren't class specific (as long as they have a good, general usage and doesn't break the gameplay) that you can pick up and learn, or give to your pet ("Follower" in Diablo 3) for it to learn.

Having some minor influence over what sort of skills your "followers" can utilize could provide players with some nice gameplay choices and give them extra characters to evolve individually. It's all about making the player interested in investing in their "Followers" and not just use them as expendable "tanks".

[Bandreus]

Just to clarify a bit since some people seem to have missed it

All of this features have allready been confirmed for D3:
* Gold will be auto picked up when walking near it
* Town portals are gone. You'll be able able to come back to town through the use of waypoints (they said those will be more frequent)
* An easy way to move equipment around your chars. If it's being implemented via a shared stash (likely) or some other way, is yet to know
* Point spending on stats is gone. Stats will be auto assigned, and the devs repeatedly hinted at some unannounced system to furter customize your stats/character

As of what I'd like to see borrowed from TL and taken into D3, many allready talked about theese, but still...
Pet mechanics in TL are very good.
- You can make him learn spells. Great way to customization, makes you want to care for him more too.
- You don't have to babysit him all the time, and you don't have to pay an Angel to resurrect him, since he never dies. Also you can choose his attitude depending on the situation (no merc suicide histerya)
- Although a pet/merc returning to town may not fit D3 style at all, some way to let you stay longer into the battle instead of returning to town to sell crap would be a great added feature. Also in TL, sending the pet to town means he'll be out of battle for a couple minutes, which adds a nice little bit of choice/strategy to the game.
- They add more inventory space. You can't possibly have too much inventory space ^_^

The spell mechanic is very nice too
I very much missed D1 spells when D2 was out. I don't think we'll see anything like that, since D3's answer to skill customization will will come in the form of runes, but still it's a very nice system. Could be implemented better though.

Enchanting. This is a though one. This is really poorly implemented in TL. I think this kind of system really doesn't fit an item-hunting game like TL or D3, even if it was balanced better.
If redone entirelly it could be a killer-feature. Enchanting via custom quests? Yes please!
Hand your weapon to an NPC, pay a fee, go search for the required quest item in a randomly generated dungeon/location, sly the mobs, take the ingredient back and prey the extra rolled affix fits your needs. Quest difficulty and prices get insanely higher with the item's power you're trying to enchant, to a point you can't afford or won't be able to complete the quest because of your level, and the system sort of balances itself out.
Basicly you get your enchantment and have a lot of fun in the process too.

So, maybe TL didn't really bring anything new to the genre, but still it definitelly has some nice feature which can easily find a spot in D3

[delosombres]

the henchmen/pet vendor running isn't game-breaking but i'de rather do without it. Having to sell your own junk in town breaks up the gameplay in a positive way. You clear out your inventory, make a small fortune, and then blow it all on gambling. It's a fun little breather from the carnage. Also, it forces the player to put some consideration about what he picks up and what he doesn't. In torchlight, i feel compelled to pick everything up and immediately give it to my pet, whites and all. No thought goes into it.

I'm giving you +100.