View Full Version : What was the best in D2?
Inkarnus
30-09-2009, 13:52
D3 is not a new IP. It is a Diablo game. A version 3 of Diablo. Diablo version 2 still has people playing it. Why? Some things in version 2 must be great even if not everything is. What is so fun in D2 that it should be in the follow up D3?
Well for me the answer is for example...:
* Place stat points. I like to create my own heroes!
* Rune words. As a casual legit player I did never make anything close to Enigma, but the rune words I made was great!
These two things was so fun so I would like it in D3. I cant see any reason it should not be in a version 3 of the great game Diablo has become.
Other things is horrbile in D2. For example:
* Trade scams.
* Muling is not safe in D2.
* Rushing - get 70 levels in two hours.
In my world a version 3 of a game has solutions to these.
Trade scams - remove a lot of it by implementing a auction house. If there is not an auction house in the game, it will be on other sites that Blizzard not controll and I prefer it in game!
Muling - Shared stash and problem sovled. Easy done in a new game and what the fans has wanted for many years.
Rushing - Look at youtube how clans can level in uber tristam super fast. And I bet a lot of help is from help from bots and dupes!!! It must be thousands of solutions to avoid this in a brand new version 3 of Diablo. Kill the dupers and bots or the game is killed.
Keighvin
30-09-2009, 16:58
Well, both of your faves are not in D3 and will never be in D3 unless they do such a severe overhaul it might as well be another reboot.
What I liked about Diablo 2 was the variety of AoE skills and mass of monsters to kill. That's what Diablo series are usually about, killing a lot and not bothering much about micro'ing party buffs, healing team members, that usual boring stuff that some RPGs have so much of, that you even need those pesky voice programs to coordinate (ventrilo, team speak, oh my god how I dislike those).
In Diablo you usually only worry to build your character into a DPS powerhouse with a minor buff here and there - that's how you help the team the most: by blowing stuff up, no excuses or too much bull****. That's a lot of fun in my book, and I'm glad D3 is looking like will keep going in he same direction - tons of AoE and mobs to slay.
Now just announce my ranged class already and give me some AoE bow skills to kill with. :coffee:
* Rushing - get 70 levels in two hours.
Actually, this was one of the greatest things about D2. Why would you want to spend months, even years on a character youre not going to like in the end?
Diablo 2 is a fast paced game, and thats where the fun is at. It doenst need to be like other mmorpgs where you take pride in 1 character you spent years on. Its a game where you can just pick it up and start playing, maybe even get rushed and level quickly so you can enjoy the end content faster, and then do it all again with a different style of playing.
What is best?
The open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist, wind in your hair!
StrikexForce
03-10-2009, 04:53
What I liked about Diablo 2 was the variety of AoE skills and mass of monsters to kill. That's what Diablo series are usually about, killing a lot and not bothering much about micro'ing party buffs, healing team members, that usual boring stuff that some RPGs have so much of, that you even need those pesky voice programs to coordinate (ventrilo, team speak, oh my god how I dislike those).
In Diablo you usually only worry to build your character into a DPS powerhouse with a minor buff here and there - that's how you help the team the most: by blowing stuff up, no excuses or too much bull****. That's a lot of fun in my book, and I'm glad D3 is looking like will keep going in he same direction - tons of AoE and mobs to slay.
Now just announce my ranged class already and give me some AoE bow skills to kill with. :coffee:
hopefully a form of guided arrow and multi shot return for all you archers.
as for the OP, placing stat points is a terrible idea. while I do agree that the system could be improved, in D2 placing stat points was just dumb.
Actually, this was one of the greatest things about D2. Why would you want to spend months, even years on a character youre not going to like in the end?
There is a difference between playing two hours to get to a high level and play several months. The ideal situation for diablo 3 is somewhere inbetween. So that you can still level fast enough without making it pointless.
First and formost, I like the general atmosphere. Knowing that you can do what ever you want with very few limitations (and yes, both runewords and manual stats are part of this). While at the same time knowing that what you do is important.
The second thing is the general wow (not world of warcraft) factor. Some skill just don't get old. And are still awesome after all those years.
And as third, the fact that you can play when you want what you want. No need to keep playing cause you have paid for a month. No need to run the last boss, there are many other ways to wealth.
And crafts too, I like those too.
@Flux: I don't get it...
StrikexForce
03-10-2009, 11:10
and now with respecs, there is much less of a need to make more than 1 of the same class anymore. this means that it SHOULD take much longer to level up.
and now with respecs, there is much less of a need to make more than 1 of the same class anymore. this means that it SHOULD take much longer to level up.
Why?
If it's going to take much longer, isn't going to make replaying to hard? And thus, it will leave the lower levels empty. It's now already hard finding a decent party. If replaying the game will be take out of the equation, I fear it will be solo play a lot. Or play with predetermined party.
Teaming up with random people is interesting. However, this means there has to be people playing at the same level. And thus, we need lots of player in every act and difficulty of the game. Long play time and easy (in comparative with replaying) doesn't do good for this.
Inkarnus
03-10-2009, 14:35
I compare with wow again...in most realms there is a lot of lvl 80 players (cap lvl now), and not so many players who level up. At least not so many players doint mid-level party intances at lvl 20-50. One solution could be that you MUST change realm after you ding maximum level. That way a leveling realm would be full of players that level up :), and end game realms for people who has reached the cap level. Sure that means it is hard to help others when you reach 80. But it removes a lot of boosting also.
I am not sure how the realms will work in Diablo D3, i guess they are a lot lot bigger, that all in Europe share the same realm. But if the realms are smaller (like 10000-20000 players), then it could be good to have players that are in same level in same realm. In the beginning there will be a lot of normal realms, after a year there will be a lot of Hell realms. Maybe not a good solution, but ideas for letting people who level find each other easy is good. And keep all those "O high runes N Zod" games to a minimum! But i am sure a auction house, shared stash and in game mail removes most of the "looking for (scam)trade" games.
StrikexForce
04-10-2009, 02:32
Why?
If it's going to take much longer, isn't going to make replaying to hard? And thus, it will leave the lower levels empty. It's now already hard finding a decent party. If replaying the game will be take out of the equation, I fear it will be solo play a lot. Or play with predetermined party.
Teaming up with random people is interesting. However, this means there has to be people playing at the same level. And thus, we need lots of player in every act and difficulty of the game. Long play time and easy (in comparative with replaying) doesn't do good for this.
as iknarus just stated, i wouldnt worry about not having people to level up with. there is going to be such a ridiculous amount of people at every single level you wont have to worry. after a few years when the initial surge from D3 beings to wear off, low levels will become rarer and the high levels will be common.
in the end, no matter how long it takes, people will still be rerolling.
take lineage 2 for example, to get 1 character to level 80 in L2 i can make probably around 300 d2 characters to level 99(seriously). even with that, there are people are still rerolling at level 1 in L2. and oh, L2 is 5 1/2 years old.
Why?
If it's going to take much longer, isn't going to make replaying to hard? And thus, it will leave the lower levels empty. It's now already hard finding a decent party. If replaying the game will be take out of the equation, I fear it will be solo play a lot. Or play with predetermined party.
Teaming up with random people is interesting. However, this means there has to be people playing at the same level. And thus, we need lots of player in every act and difficulty of the game. Long play time and easy (in comparative with replaying) doesn't do good for this.
This. There has to be some type of initiative for rerolling a character. Even if there are respecs, are you just going to play through the whole game 5 times and thats it? Ive played through d2 trying to reroll a character numerous times, and i still get a kick out of 8 players trying to clear tombs with subpar skills and sucking down pots.
Maybe have a limit on the respecs you can do for high level characters. 2 per toon? and have an extra 1 with a quest. That way, theres room for mistakes, and if you decide you dont like your class you can always change. If you really dont like your class you can just reroll her again, but still be able to make it to high levels without spending months on a toon.
What should be done away with is rushing. What SHOULDNT be done away with is trist/tomb/cow/baal runs. There should be an area in D3 where classes can grind to level up a bit more, but wouldnt be able to be rushed or glitch rushed so wed still have to play through the content.
delosombres
05-10-2009, 21:57
and now with respecs, there is much less of a need to make more than 1 of the same class anymore. this means that it SHOULD take much longer to level up.
I agree. If you would be able to rush a character to max level in a day than there is practically no reason for implementing respec system. I always thought that respecs have more sense in a game where leveling takes some time.
Btw, what do i like about D2?
Randomness, replayability, experimenting, killing stuff and that feeling when you find a good item.
xduncanx
05-10-2009, 22:35
What is best?
The open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist, wind in your hair!
Wrong! What is best?
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
1) point and mouse click to move
2) left mouse click attack, right mouse click attack
those 2 things are still better than wasd, game pads / controllers and mmo style smashing 1, 2, 3 repeatedly
3) isometric view, and the angle is perfect
Sacred 2 and FATE also have isometric view, but the angle is all wrong
4) D2 gives you a sense of purpose right from the beginning: go to the Den of Evil, slay all the monsters;
so right from the start you have a mission of great importance; right from the start you're drawn in
which leads to
5) its easy; I don't mean the game, but rather the "what am I supposed to do ? " aspect
right from the very start you know what you're supposed to do, find the Den of Evil, kill all the monsters.
There's no great mystery or secret. No long way to travel. Its fairly close and well marked.
Even after that its rather simple. Take the underground cavern, check; find the horadric malus, check; find the brain in this place, the eye in that place and the heart in that place. Again, no real secrets or mysteries. They pretty much tell you where to go and what to do. Its a fairly simple game, but not in a bad way.
You know what you're supposed to do from the very start.
the opposite would be Oblivion. Interesting game, sort of, kind of, but what am I supposed to do ? ! Where am I supposed to go ? ! There's just too many choices
6) its heroic,
from the very beginning
"Find the Den of Evil, kill all the monsters and light floods the cave!"
all the way to the end
where "even the angels are praising you !"
7) loot drops
I swear, they must have consulted a motivational psychologist; they have loot drops down to a science; they never give you too much, and there's always the promise of something just a little bit better if I play just a little bit more
8) no superfluous stuff like character customization,
sure you can assign stat points as you level up, but, again, take Oblivion as the opposite. It takes 5 minutes just to get started. Pick a race, a class, a birth sign, your strong skills, your weak skills, your base stats... come on ! I just want to get started !
game designers think they're being smart, creative and innovative by adding new controls, new ways of moving and fighting, character customization and other things, but its all just stuff that gets in the way of playing the game
they forget KISS, keep it simple stupid
D2 designers knew how to KISS
the option of being able to rush my characters and not spend months on one character is really the one thing that makes me play over and over again.
don't know about the rest of you, but I certainly don't have the integrity to levelall my characters for 3 months each when I can do 3 characters in a month.
-Kinky
8) no superfluous stuff like character customization,
sure you can assign stat points as you level up, but, again, take Oblivion as the opposite. It takes 5 minutes just to get started. Pick a race, a class, a birth sign, your strong skills, your weak skills, your base stats... come on ! I just want to get started !
Superfluous? Not even a little. All of those decisions have a big impact on how your character will function, and I'm glad it goes down to finer details. Gaming doesn't need to be simplistic, nor do you need to jump right in and get started right away. I'd like to think that gaming has evolved beyond Pong and Pac-Man in more ways than just graphics.
Anyway...
I think the reason rushing is so prevalent in D2 is because the early game isn't worth playing. The truth is that most people want a character that can not only survive on Hell, but dominate on hell. D2 strongly discourages this with most character builds because putting points in skills you have access to early on will be to your detriment at the endgame, unless they happen to be synergies of the endgame skills you want to use. If synergies were removed, then you'd have a lot more room to play with your points and you could safely use them on the early skills without nerfing your endgame potential. Another potential solution for that problem is respec, though respec presents problems of its own depending on how it's implemented.
I compare with wow again...in most realms there is a lot of lvl 80 players (cap lvl now), and not so many players who level up. At least not so many players doint mid-level party intances at lvl 20-50. One solution could be that you MUST change realm after you ding maximum level. That way a leveling realm would be full of players that level up :), and end game realms for people who has reached the cap level. Sure that means it is hard to help others when you reach 80. But it removes a lot of boosting also.
That would make questing places crowded and that is the most annoying thing that can happen while you are leveling up in wow (or any other mmorpg I believe).
Diablo 2 is awesome for it's item hunting scene. Those runewords and uniques make you run baal/pindle/boss_name_here over and over again. The rarity of items is perfect, becouse some of items are hard to get so you are always busy working for them. I can't stand games where there's nothing to reach for
I hope D3 will have this
Brother Laz
12-10-2009, 00:15
* Place stat points. I like to create my own heroes!
Keep dreaming, you had to spend your stat points the correct way or else your character sucked. That's like a racing game that lets you choose from a selection of 20 spoiler wings but one of them gives more performance than all the others.
* Rushing - get 70 levels in two hours.
Grinding is stupid, boring and outdated. Let me do what I want to do - the endgame - without hassle kthx.
@Flux: I don't get it...
I was just hoping someone would say, "WRONG!" and leave me the opening to complete that famous quote from Ahnold's masterpiece of sword and sorcery.
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
I just like the intricity of the way skills and items worked together.I think if they keep the runes in(not the ones from D2 but the new type)this will add a new dimension to this.The way they said you could figure out combinations with aspects of the game and come up with real power tells me they are very much on this track.If people want a very streamlined ARPG go and play Spacesiege,that is not what I want to happen to D3(so streamlined that its bland) I know theres little danger of that.
I think some of the other aspects are more down to it being popular as I think how PvP would be fun in other games but they are just not popular enough.
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