Crowd Control and Balance Issues

[sicyo]

I for one kept my Diablo 2 account alive for a while, even though I played WoW extensively, for the fact that Diablo 2 didn't have stunlocks, fears, cyclone, roots, and other "loss of control" effects that WoW had. That was the most irritating part about WoW, in my opinion. There were so many instances where you just simply couldn't do anything but sit there and take it, the only way out of it was a 5 or 2 minute cooldown, but the enemy could always re-apply the problem.

So, here's to hoping that D3 sticks to the D2 method of there always being something you can do.

Also, I was reading a Blue post about WoW and Death Knights the other day. I thought this quote was really interesting.

1) We have learned a lot about making classes. With the DK, we avoided some of the limitations other classes have. In the absence of a lot of tradition, we gave the early DK an answer to almost everything.

It made me realize that in Diablo 2, all the classes were designed that way. You weren't limited by a class counter. With enough skill, gear, and finesse, any class could effectively combat any other. There was always an answer. If a caster came into a melee dueling game and started being rude, you could put on resist gear and make them stop. You didn't have one class that would always beat you, no matter how skilled or well geared you were.

It was immensely frustrating pvping in WoW because no matter what, there was always one class that ripped you apart, even if you had better gear/experience. That killed a very fun element of the game that Diablo 2 had for me, and I hope it isn't an element being considered for the "balance" in pvp for Diablo 3.

[Daerius]

for the fact that Diablo 2 didn't have stunlocks, fears, cyclone, roots, and other "loss of control" effects that WoW had.

Have you never fought a Fire Trapsin with Mind Blast?
Bowazon with Knockback?
Been Charge Locked?
Smite Stunned?
Bone Prisoned/Walled?

You weren't limited by a class counter. With enough skill, gear, and finesse, any class could effectively combat any other.

How do you combat a stun?

If a caster came into a melee dueling game and started being rude, you could put on resist gear and make them stop.

Yeah except you can't get magic resist. No-one uses Bone Spears or Blessed Hammer though, right?

(Safety Craft gives 5-10% =)

[StrikexForce]

Have you never fought a Fire Trapsin with Mind Blast?
Bowazon with Knockback?
Been Charge Locked?
Smite Stunned?
Bone Prisoned/Walled?



How do you combat a stun?



Yeah except you can't get magic resist. No-one uses Bone Spears or Blessed Hammer though, right?

(Safety Craft gives 5-10% =)


Yeah there were a few crowd control abilities in D2, but they arent nearly as powerful or common as those in WoW. Crowd control in WoW just got completely out of hand.

And the nice thing about being a barb in D2 was that I could whirlwind out of anything

[sicyo]

Yep I fought a Fire Trapsin with Mind Blast. As a Zealot it was extremely simple to get out, and as a Fury Druid it took a while but I always managed to get out. Fire Traps never did much damage, so if they laid down LS they'd give up some of the stun power.

Yep, I played against Bowazons with Knockback when you could get hit with Guided Arrow more than once (it would pierce through you and come back to hit you again). I even played one. In higher dueling circles you were required to grab gear that avoided using bad manner tactics and it was still fun because there were a ton of people involved at that time. Once they fixed the rebounding Guided Arrow it was pretty easy to close ground, especially as a Zealot. Zealots always had charge, which is what left Druids behind when dealing with closing ground.

I've been charge locked, that was a bug. Unless you're talking about someone constantly charging you, which was easy to get out of, you just needed proper FHR.

I've been smite stunned, walked away from it and then when they go to run to me they get hit by a shift + Zeal or Shift + Fury and get killed in one hit. Believe it or not you can walk away from a smiter.

I always melee'd my way out of Bone Prison/Wall. As a caster it sucked in 1.09 because you couldn't teleport out, but 1.10 fixed that. As melee in 1.09 Iron Maiden worked in pvp so a bonewall + IM then spelled death. But in 1.10 you could just melee through it and maintain enough life by leeching to get around.

There were myriads of ways to combat a stun. Whirlwind, teleport, walk + attack, etc. My main contact with smite stun, which was the biggest stun in my book, was in melee games where Smiters came in to collect gold. It wasn't as bad until grief ramped up the smite damage. I had enough life on my druid to do the walk + shift hit but on my paladin I had to charge out and run to stash to grab my own grief and bm him back. If you were a caster and thought to get certain FHR breakpoints, you could teleport out.

Yeah but you can easily avoid bone spear and blessed hammer. Bone spear only goes in one direction so they pretty much have to be right next to you to use it. Bone Spirit you could avoid by getting behind a wall/bush. Blessed Hammer was a little trickier. Most of that was just knowing the hammer patterns. If you don't know the pattern, stay away, it only goes in a circle. On my little gimp Hammerdin that I only geared to help rush/level people, I could teleport right under another hammerdin and get him into FHR lock because I had the highest cast breakpoint. As a Zealot I could charge right under him, through the hammers, and Zeal him. Since he was attacking he couldn't block and would get smashed. As a Fury Druid I would just wait until he tried to teleport on me and then 1-hit him when he landed. It was very easy to avoid hammers, you just had to be patient.