Cant decide which din

[babypsycho]

As the title says, I'm having trouble deciding which din I should build for all round purposes.

Options as follow:
auradin
templardin foh
zealer

or any other suggestions which does not include simter/hdin

[MCJ]

I like Foher. Then Auradin.
Zealer not so much b.c u will get owned in duels by practically anyone.

[Eilo Rytyj]

PvM = either physical Fanatic Zealot or Auradin (also a Zealot technically). Both are similar but the Auradin kind of requires you have the aura gear beforehand which can't be equipped until late Nightmare/Hell anyways.

FoH is a bit messy in PvM given the cast delay and single target nature of FoH. Only shines against undead mobs, but then you'll want to synergise with Holy Bolt to get the best out of it.

[Kinky]

A stacked Auradin with a point into Vengeance would be my choice.



-Kinky

[sunkenfaith]

Hammerdin!!!!!

[Cormac McArt]

Lightning-Physical Aura-Zealotdin.

[udgard]

Easiest question first: how much gear can you afford?

[babypsycho]

lets just assume if i can afford all the proper gear needed for particular build providing the items are easy to come by? ie. not some max/ar/life scs or 2/20/2 helm :P

[Hector]

Fanat Zealot is fun, the pally build I have been enjoying the most... Good AoE and single target damage with Zeal. The 1 point Smite and adequate gear will allow you to kill the ubers easily, which your friends might appreciate.

[Cormac McArt]

Fanat Zealot is fun, the pally build I have been enjoying the most... Good AoE and single target damage with Zeal. The 1 point Smite and adequate gear will allow you to kill the ubers easily, which your friends might appreciate.
The Fana Zealot is fine. However the Aura Zealot isn't worse, he can kill Ubers as well (Grief PB + 1HSP Smite) and since there are more Elementalist Characters on Realms - he will be Useful (for more people) with his Conviction.

[babypsycho]

Hmm so Fohrer or Fana zealot ?
Can Fohrer break immune since it's pretty much lightning based.

[Cormac McArt]

Forget PvM-ing with FoHdin, please.

[Ragnarod]

Forget PvM-ing with FoHdin, please.

I agree, it's doable in a party (Conviction always helps) but FoH is really sloooow at killing monsters itself, so you'll be stuck watching how your party kills everything while doing pretty much nothing but giving aura. Still, if that doesn't sound too bad, by all means go for it, just as long as you know what you're getting with a FoHer...

[babypsycho]

OK. I've finally decided my new din gonna be running ubers + pvp only.
I saw this smite/foh din is doing well in pk.

What do you guys think?
I've seen his gear but dunno about skill tree though :P

[Cormac McArt]

OK. I've finally decided my new din gonna be running ubers + pvp only.
I saw this smite/foh din is doing well in pk.

What do you guys think?
I've seen his gear but dunno about skill tree though :P
Yes, VT is a jewel. Just type 'Vindicator Templar' in the Search tool and press enter and you'll get what you need. Keep in mind that such VT is a Costly one, unlike most Casters (FCR).

[babypsycho]

Hm.. ok I'm having some trouble :P
Should I go for more smite'd VT or more foh'd VT?
ie. Which skills to max? Cuz there is like two versions out there and I don't know which is better.

[Cormac McArt]

Hm.. ok I'm having some trouble :P
Should I go for more smite'd VT or more foh'd VT?
ie. Which skills to max? Cuz there is like two versions out there and I don't know which is better.
The Smite Focused is VT and the FoH Focused is TV.
However, ask yourself whether you have the High Funds to Pay for such Build. Both VT and TV are Very Costly, Lifer PCGC-s is one of the things they require, so if you make one without the Necessary Gear, it wont be much of VT/TV ...

[UberB]

Hm.. ok I'm having some trouble :P
Should I go for more smite'd VT or more foh'd VT?
ie. Which skills to max? Cuz there is like two versions out there and I don't know which is better.

T/V is better in pubs and as far as skill selection goes you can pretty much have your cake and eat it too:

20 foh
20 holy shock
20 smite
20 fanaticism
rest into conviction and holy shield

You will have a fully synergized foh and a smite that is almost fully synergized. Conviction and holy shield don't need that many points because the former caps out at 25 and the latter adds very little extra damage to smite if you are using Grief.

[Ragnarod]

Are you sure maxing Smite will result in higher Smite damage than maxing Holy Shield, UberB? Even with the damage added by Grief I didn't think the 15% extra ED you get for every point in Smite would be preferible to the base shield damage Holy Shield adds, but I haven't done any numbers on this, I might be mistaken.

[Cormac McArt]

Are you sure maxing Smite will result in higher Smite damage than maxing Holy Shield, UberB? Even with the damage added by Grief I didn't think the 15% extra ED you get for every point in Smite would be preferible to the base shield damage Holy Shield adds, but I haven't done any numbers on this, I might be mistaken.
Ragnarod is right. ~All experts say max Holy Shield over Smite, not to talk you'll get Easy Block.

[UberB]

Are you sure maxing Smite will result in higher Smite damage than maxing Holy Shield, UberB? Even with the damage added by Grief I didn't think the 15% extra ED you get for every point in Smite would be preferible to the base shield damage Holy Shield adds, but I haven't done any numbers on this, I might be mistaken.

I don't know the exact equation of smite damage but 1 point in smite = 15 ED of a +400 dmg grief = 60 damage per point. Whereas 20 points in holy shield only gives 57-60. Of course, the extra damage from holy shield has yet to be multiplied by the ED from fanat, so I plugged the numbers into Peterpaulruben's damage calculator.

http://www.baronsbazaar.invisionzone.com/ppr/damage_calc.html

A paladin with 150 strength, +400 damage Grief PB, 20 smite (300ed) and 20 fanaticism (373ed) would end up with 1636 average damage, not counting the base damage of the shield and holy shield.

The same char with 20 holy shield and 20 fanaticism would have 1534 average damage. Of course, after damage from the base smite shield is added in as well, the maxed smite pally would end up pulling even further ahead because that extra +dmg is getting multiplied by his superior ED.

edit: As far as extra blocking goes, Holy shield has lots of diminishing returns. If you have a decent amount of +skills I doubt you will see much of a difference, the end result is probably just about 50 life after BO or something.

[Ragnarod]

I made some numbers on this, taking as an example a paladin with +12 all skills and an extra +8 combat skills (so +20 combat skills total), 150 strength and a mid quality (+370 damage) Grief. Applying the Smite damage formula (I'll just take the average smite damage for an elite shield, 46, so I don't have to make two sets of calculations, ok?):

Max Smite Damage = (Shield Max Damage + (Damage +x) + (Holy Shield Max Damage)) * (1 + ((Strength + (+x% Enhanced Damage)) / 100)))

With 1 point in Smite and 20 in Holy Shield we end up with a lvl 21 Smite (315% ED) and lvl 40 Holy Shield (+137-140 damage), considering lvl 32 Fana (577% ED):

Max Smite Damage = (46 + 370 + 140) * (1 + ((150 + 315 + 577) / 100))) = 546 * 11.42 = 6235.32 damage

With 20 points in Smite and 1 point in Holy Shield we end up with lvl 40 Smite (600% ED) and lvl 21 Holy Shield (+61-64 damage), considering lvl 32 Fana (577% ED):

Max Smite Damage = (46 + 370 + 64) * (1 + ((150 + 600 + 577) / 100))) = 480 * 14.27 = 6849.6 damage

So you are quite right! The extra blocking in this case would be negligible (just 3%), so, you're basically choosing between increasing your defense with Holy Shield (from 325% to 610%) or your damage with Smite, the choice should be obvious :) Thanks for pointing this out UberB.