Meteor storm moved to arcane tree

[Madmaxio]

OMFG. Im so angry about that fact! Was my favourite skill, it was so AMAZING in wizard trailer, pwning some baddies.
But now its moved to arcane tree and looks like amazing fire exploisons exist no more and meteors gonna have some awfull purple look now xD

Edit : new name of it is "Arcane torrent"

[ancalagon]

OMFG. Im so angry about that fact! Was my favourite skill, it was so AMAZING in wizard trailer, pwning some baddies.
But now its moved to arcane tree and looks like amazing fire exploisons exist no more and meteors gonna have some awfull purple look now xD

Edit : new name of it is "Arcane torrent"

I have thought the same, but not necessarily purple look .... the meteors in the wizard gameplay video looked like orange lasers rather than fire, meaning they were already arcane damage? As for a purple arcane damage 'shower' kind of spell, there is the Spirit Barrage for the WD .... although I am also assuming its purple so I could be also wrong. Lets hope its not a purple meteor!

[Madmaxio]

I have thought the same, but not necessarily purple look .... the meteors in the wizard gameplay video looked like orange lasers rather than fire, meaning they were already arcane damage? As for a purple arcane damage 'shower' kind of spell, there is the Spirit Barrage for the WD .... although I am also assuming its purple so I could be also wrong. Lets hope its not a purple meteor!

Orange lazers - yes, also it is very cool imho, but look plz what happens when they hit the ground - u will see FIRE

[ancalagon]

Orange lazers - yes, also it is very cool imho, but look plz what happens when they hit the ground - u will see FIRE

Yeah, true. Darn it!

Description:: Meteorites pelt the targeted region dealing 10 to 20 damage per second.

Still says meteorites, though. But its in arcane tree, not conjuring tree anymore. And Arcane Torrent suggests arcane damage, I hope its not so too! This would be too similar to Witch Doctor's Spirit Barrage, and would mean no more Meteor. ARGH!

[WizardFan]

I was never a fan of Meteor in DII, however I have seen footage of the meteor spell in DIII and I must say it was awesome. The spell kept going as long as you kept casting and dealt huge damage. Looked great as well.

I guess the arcane torrent skill will be the new meteor storm. But hey who knows, I think we may grow to like it more than meteor storm. Blizzard usually does a good job, so here's hoping we like it.

[sunkenfaith]

yeah, the graphics for meteor looks absolutely awesome.

[Jedouard]

I wouldn't worry about every arcane spell looking purple. The was a blue post on this a while back. In short, a fan changed out incinerate's red for purple. Bashiok said it looked cool, but Blizzard was not looking to make all spells look the same because they were in the same tree. Reason: looking at purple over and over would get monotonous.

So, who says arcane cannot be purple, red, orange or whatever else? "Arcane" just means "old", after all. Also, why can't arcane damage light a fire when it hits the ground, like these arcane meteors seem to do? I mean, if you electrocute a human being, they can catch on fire, so why not arcane the ground until it bursts into flames? Two damage types would be a plus in my opinion.

[WizardFan]

Two damage types would be a plus in my opinion.

This.

This would mean that we get 2 damage types in just 1 tree, thus eliminating the need to put points in 2 trees for 2 types of damage, like it was always the case for the DII sorceress, who, for this very reason, had huge problems with immunes, and dual immunes, not to mention the problem of how to allocate skill points.

If we get 2 damage types in 1 tree, we're killing 2 birds with one stone (don't have to worry about dual immunes, and we spend less skill points).

Of course we still don't know if dual immunes will exist in DIII, but if we indeed receive 2 damage types in one tree, there probably will be.

[Runestar]

I seem to recall an article somewhere stating that there would be no immunes in D3, so you can afford to specialize in a single element (though you might still want to dip in a second to handle foes with particularly high resist to that element).

I do like the idea of a "laser-mage" though. :scratchchin:

[WizardFan]

I seem to recall an article somewhere stating that there would be no immunes in D3, so you can afford to specialize in a single element (though you might still want to dip in a second to handle foes with particularly high resist to that element).

I do like the idea of a "laser-mage" though. :scratchchin:

Whoa are you serious? No immunes?

Man let's hope you're right! That means more freedom to spec as we want without worrying about those dual immune monsters.

I'm very happy to hear this. Let's hope you're right.

[ancalagon]

I seem to recall an article somewhere stating that there would be no immunes in D3, so you can afford to specialize in a single element (though you might still want to dip in a second to handle foes with particularly high resist to that element).

I do like the idea of a "laser-mage" though. :scratchchin:

Unfortunately, one of the Barb's skills from this Blizzcon mentioned damage immunes, and didnt even specify what damage ... if just physical or otherwise.

[WizardFan]

Monsters immune to 1 single damage type aren't really a problem. The problem are dual immunes, who, at least I hope, won't force wizards to spec certain skills and trees in order to be killed, at least not too much.

Although I don't have a problem putting skill points in skills such as "decreases monster resistance by X%" since you ARE a spellcaster after all, so putting points in such skills is almost a given (unless there's gear that can make up for this).

[ancalagon]

Monsters immune to 1 single damage type aren't really a problem. The problem are dual immunes, who, at least I hope, won't force wizards to spec certain skills and trees in order to be killed, at least not too much.

Although I don't have a problem putting skill points in skills such as "decreases monster resistance by X%" since you ARE a spellcaster ater all, so putting points in such skills is almost a given (unless there's gear that can make up for this).

That was called Penetrating Spells, and removed it now. No more passive pierce from skills. Presumably because what you said is true, I hope there are no multiple immunes, that would make our variable element damage types very useful and add some strategy. Also, no need for passives then, unless monster is immune to one and heavily resistant to the other, there might be some piercing as an affix, or from skill runes or gems / other socketables

[Madmaxio]

Monsters immune to 1 single damage type aren't really a problem. The problem are dual immunes, who, at least I hope, won't force wizards to spec certain skills and trees in order to be killed, at least not too much.

Although I don't have a problem putting skill points in skills such as "decreases monster resistance by X%" since you ARE a spellcaster after all, so putting points in such skills is almost a given (unless there's gear that can make up for this).

And who said u that -x% resists skill will help u deal with immune monsters?

[WizardFan]

Yep, dual immunes really kill your char in terms of strategy when you are sometimes left with nothing to kill it with and all your skills are just downright useless. Piercing as an affix would be a good idea, because if DIII will be similar in terms of immunes to DII, then we have a problem that needs adressing.

ALso, I really, REALLY hope that there won't be monsters completely immune to all elements like there were in DII, where a sorceress faced the situation that she was compltely useless, and unable to deal with them at all, whereas other classes could kill them, sometimes very easily (I'm looking at you, paladins) :)

Then again, I see a shimmer of hope because I see some wizard skills that deal physical damage as well, so maybe melee wizards will make an awesome comback in DIII, and will be supported by more melee skills than they were in DII.

[ancalagon]

And who said u that -x% resists skill will help u deal with immune monsters?

No one, I think he was giving his take on high resist enemies there.

Although I would like to think that if they indeed have immunes and -resists in D3, it would be more of a simple case to break them this time around. IE for example a monster with 150 res (Immune) and you have 70 pierce from -%res on items, curses or skills = 80 res.

Not that shebang from D2 with 1/5 LR and Conviction amount, which results in little to no effect, except for Light sorcs with Infy. And then passive mastery from cold mastery or facets used to work only AFTER breaking immunity, but at full effect. But didnt help in breaking it with LR and Convi in the 1st place, never made any sense.

[WizardFan]

And who said u that -x% resists skill will help u deal with immune monsters?

No one. In DII, the immunity of some monsters could be removed by a wand of lower resists, whereas some monsters could not be affected in such a way.

I know this isn't DII, but rather DIII, but if we look at history there's a good chance that some monsters may have their immunities removed by such a skill. And some, on the other hand, not.

[ancalagon]

Yep, dual immunes really kill your char in terms of strategy when you are sometimes left with nothing to kill it with and all your skills are just downright useless. Piercing as an affix would be a good idea, because if DIII will be similar in terms of immunes to DII, then we have a problem that needs adressing.

ALso, I really, REALLY hope that there won't be monsters completely immune to all elements like there were in DII, where a sorceress faced the situation that she was compltely useless, and unable to deal with them at all, whereas other classes could kill them, sometimes very easily (I'm looking at you, paladins) :)

The again, I see a shimmer of hope because I see some wizard skills that deal physical damage as well, so maybe melee wizards will make an awesome comback in DIII, and will be supported by more melee skills than they were in DII.

Couldnt agree with you any more or any better.

Although I am expecting to see someone pop up and go 'Immunes were never a problem. You just dont have any skill!!!! Or else you cant afford a merc with expensive gear and Infy which can only exist because of the duped economy!!

Without dupes, there would never be 90%++ of light sorcs running around with an Infy merc, Infy requires HR's to make. And it doesnt really do anything to cold or fire sorcs, so essentially pure single element sorcs wouldve been stuck in a rut.

Or the argument where D3 is supposed to be a party game ... people who actually play in well thought out parties exist, but are rare and a huge minority, and what about solo playing on BNet? Or single player??? How you even gonna get an Infy merc there?

And immunities were always a problem for all classes anyway, I felt the need to switch to Azurewrath / Lawbringer / Lacerator / Widowmaker while surrounded by tough physical immunes annoying, time consuming and dangerous. Paladin that is, Barbarian had Berserk .... I wont complain it was a great skill and did insane magic damage. However it came with 0 defense penalty and with no shield you were dead meat, even in HC. If you were a Frenzy barb or a 2H weapon wielder and used Berserk against some PI cursed / fana minotaurs.... Good luck!!!!

Hammerdins never had any problem, except the Wailing Beasts in A3 temples .... who even went there? They are a good MF spot, but still not worthed due to small size.

Why am I saying all this? Essentially immunities, or rather multiple ones, were a huge problem in D2, and if they are bringing them back, they need to find better ways of addressing them.

[Madmaxio]

Without dupes, there would never be 90%++ of light sorcs running around with an Infy merc, Infy requires HR's to make. And it doesnt really do anything to cold or fire sorcs, so essentially pure single element sorcs wouldve been stuck in a rut.


What? Can u please explain this part, infi merc works better for light sorc then other sorc? Infi doesnt realy do anything for fire/cold sorc?

Just for info, in d2 -x% resist mod only works for that person who uses item.So - light res from infi DOESNT WORK for light sorc, its only works for your merc.

[WizardFan]

Although I am expecting to see someone pop up and go 'Immunes were never a problem. You just dont have any skill!!!! Or else you cant afford a merc with expensive gear and Infy which can only exist because of the duped economy!!

I was never a fan of mercenaries. Why? Well, if a paladin or a barbarian didn't need them, why should I? How do you think it makes me feel as a sorceress to RELY on my mercenary to kill stuff. Paladins, for example, can have mercs, but they don't RELY on them. They can get by just by themselves anyway, if they are built for it.

A sorceress on the other hand is in a completely different situation. A paladin player only needs a weapon change to deal with immunes. Know what a sorc needs? A character change. Dual immunes? Too bad, looks like you'll need another character...

And yeah duped economy just really ruined the game. Everyone walking around with duped uber gear making people think it's easy, leaving those of us who play fair and honest struggling.

Why am I saying all this? Essentially immunities, or rather multiple ones, were a huge problem in D2, and if they are bringing them back, they need to find better ways of addressing them.

I never actually minded the multiple immunes. What I minded was the lack of skills and possibilities to deal with them effectively, at least as a sorceress.

Multiple immunes are fine by me, but if they will exist in DIII, then players need to be given the ability to prepare and deal with them.

[WizardFan]

What? Can u please explain this part, infi merc works better for light sorc then other sorc? Infi doesnt realy do anything for fire/cold sorc?

Just for info, in d2 -x% resist mod only works for that person who uses item.So - light res from infi DOESNT WORK for light sorc, its only works for your merc.

I never used Infinity, however I have seen some videos, and I believe you're wrong. Infi on your mercenary did help your sorceress as well, the sorceress didn't have to be the one carrying the Infi.

[ancalagon]

What? Can u please explain this part, infi merc works better for light sorc then other sorc? Infi doesnt realy do anything for fire/cold sorc?

Just for info, in d2 -x% resist mod only works for that person who uses item.So - light res from infi DOESNT WORK for light sorc, its only works for your merc.

Infinity gives a level something Conviction aura (17 I think), which removes a lot of lightning immunes (90% +) in Hell, but very little Fire or Cold immunes. This makes Light Sorcs, coupled with their high average and max damage, very effective at MF runs and rushing and key runs, much more than Fire or Cold sorcs.

Im not talking about the -% light res on the weapon which counts as passive pierce and doesnt help in breaking immunes (but does work after its broken, but still useless for sorcs since she isnt carrying the Infy polearm herself). Also like you said, only works for the bearer of said mod.

[ancalagon]

How do you think it makes me feel as a sorceress to RELY on my mercenary to kill stuff.

Exactly, there is always at least one of the Ancients who spawns immune to your particular element, or if you are a hybrid, a huge chance one spawns immune to both elements. Essentially, if you are soloing the game just for fun, you are screwed unless you can stand back and watch the merc do the killing!

But then again *yawn* I am a sorceress of the Zann Esu, I command the terrible bone chilling winds of the North and fires that will challenge the deepest parts of Hell, and can fry your flesh with a single zap of magically supercharged electricity .... TO NO AVAIL?!

And mercenaries get stuck and are buggy with their auras, and they move and attack relatively slow, and only live for long enough when they have expensive gear.

[WizardFan]

Exactly, there is always at least one of the Ancients who spawns immune to your particular element, or if you are a hybrid, a huge chance one spawns immune to both elements. Essentially, if you are soloing the game just for fun, you are screwed unless you can stand back and watch the merc do the killing!

But then again *yawn* I am a sorceress of the Zann Esu, I command the terrible bone chilling winds of the North and fires that will challenge the deepest parts of Hell, and can fry your flesh with a single zap of magically supercharged electricity .... TO NO AVAIL?!

Lol. I agree.

In order to solve this problem, I eventually tried making a melee sorceress that would be dealing physical damage with passion (Zeal)+CB, OW, and other mods to increase physical damage. I never got around to doing it, sadly, due to lack of motivation. I had played DII from the very beginning, for years, and well, you know at some point you just don't feel like playing it anymore :) Right now I'm just waiting for DIII to come out so I can kick some immune a**.

Although I do believe this kind of sorceress would have been sucessful in DII, and capale of dispatching all adversaries.

[ancalagon]

Lol. I agree.

In order to solve this problem, I eventually tried making a melee sorceress that would be dealing physical damage with passion (Zeal)+CB, OW, and other mods to increase physical damage. I never got around to doing it, sadly, due to lack of motivation. I had played DII from the very beginning, for years, and well, you know at some point you just don't feel like playing it anymore :) Right now I'm just waiting for DIII to come out so I can kick some immune a**.

Although I do believe this kind of sorceress would have been sucessful in DII, and capale of dispatching all adversaries.

To say the truth, they are indeed very viable, and have no particular problems trashing anything in their way. But half of it is totally runeword dependant ... 2 x Dream, Dragon, Passion. Rest is Enchant, Lightning Mastery for Holy Shock melee synergy, and any backup cold / fire skills. So that is cool, at least her skills are still very useful

However, I never really liked them myself, at all

(1) Its a sorceress using zeal, WTF? Doesnt even reach 4 fpa speed, only a relatively slow 7 fpa. (3 attacks vs 6 attacks per second) The animation of Zeal on a sorceress looks out of place if you ever seen her do it in Melee Sorc UT runs. Paladins put a lot more motion and combat feel into it.

And when Im playing a melee sorc, I tend to forgo my caster spells completely and focus on the melee part, so its partly that too

(2) I dont like the elemental auras or Auradins at all, I just never did I dont know why, kind of a selfish and stupid reason but still ... a reason. After all this is my personal take on why I dont like it.

(3) Doesnt attack or leech fast enough, doesnt seem as powerful as other melee classes, and ultimately doesnt feel like a melee class at all, even though it is technically one. Thank God I tried it out on Hero Editor before making one on BNet, as I didnt like her at all.

(4) A sorc is a sorc. I am semi conservative, I can allow flexibility in builds, but I dont want a melee sorc same like I dont want a caster Barb. Hammerdins were OK IMO, dont know how they pulled that one off, but pallys seem like a perfect caster / melee balance. Still think they were uber-insanely-mega-astronomically OP and a repeat of Enigma Hammerdins in D3 or anything similar would be epic fail, however.

[Madmaxio]

Infinity gives a level something Conviction aura (17 I think), which removes a lot of lightning immunes (90% +) in Hell, but very little Fire or Cold immunes. This makes Light Sorcs, coupled with their high average and max damage, very effective at MF runs and rushing and key runs, much more than Fire or Cold sorcs.

Im not talking about the -% light res on the weapon which counts as passive pierce and doesnt help in breaking immunes (but does work after its broken, but still useless for sorcs since she isnt carrying the Infy polearm herself). Also like you said, only works for the bearer of said mod.

Conviction aura ( lvl12) on infinity removes 85% resist to light, fire and cold. So, not immune monsters simply get there resits lowered by 85%. In case if monster is immune to light/fire or cold, conviction can break immunity but it only works 1/5 of X% when breaking immunity, so if monster has for example 120% cold resi -> 120 - 85/5 = 103 -> still immune. The only other way to break immunity is low resists curse, which works same way with 1/5 modifier.
So what in general, when monsters get high stack resists (xxx immune+xxx enchanted) infi doesnt work. I think it will be implemented same way in d3, but perhaps u will just dont have infi there :)

[WizardFan]

To say the truth, they are indeed very viable, and have no particular problems trashing anything in their way. But half of it is totally runeword dependant ... 2 x Dream, Dragon, Passion. Rest is Enchant, Lightning Mastery for Holy Shock melee synergy, and any backup cold / fire skills. So that is cool, at least her skills are still very useful

However, I never really liked them myself, at all

(1) Its a sorceress using zeal, WTF? Doesnt even reach 4 fpa speed, only a relatively slow 7 fpa. (3 attacks vs 6 attacks per second) The animation of Zeal on a sorceress looks out of place if you ever seen her do it in Melee Sorc UT runs. Paladins put a lot more motion and combat feel into it.

And when Im playing a melee sorc, I tend to forgo my caster spells completely and focus on the melee part, so its partly that too

(2) I dont like the elemental auras or Auradins at all, I just never did I dont know why, kind of a selfish and stupid reason but still ... a reason. After all this is my personal take on why I dont like it.

(3) Doesnt attack or leech fast enough, doesnt seem as powerful as other melee classes, and ultimately doesnt feel like a melee class at all, even though it is technically one. Thank God I tried it out on Hero Editor before making one on BNet, as I didnt like her at all.

(4) A sorc is a sorc. I am semi conservative, I can allow flexibility in builds, but I dont want a melee sorc same like I dont want a caster Barb. Hammerdins were OK IMO, dont know how they pulled that one off, but pallys seem like a perfect caster / melee balance. Still think they were uber-insanely-mega-astronomically OP and a repeat of Enigma Hammerdins in D3 or anything similar would be epic fail, however.

I know they are effective. However, you misunderstood one thing in my mentioned sorceress concept - my sorcress does not focus on dealing any kind of elemental damage with ther weapon - only physical damage.

If you want elemental damage, you have spells to do that for you, and they do it from a distance too. The reason why I went for physical damage is because dual immunes were a problem, and when facing the uber three, they also had minions completely immune to magic, so all 3 of your skill trees were useless. Thus, in the end, when you do the math, you are left with 2 elements + physical damage if you wanna be able to kill everything by yourself.

CB, OW, DS, Passion with zeal all served this purpose.

[ancalagon]

I know they are effective. However, you misunderstood one thing in my mentioned sorceress concept - my sorcress does not focus on dealing any kind of elemental damage with ther weapon - only physical damage.

If you want elemental damage, you have spells to do that for you, and they do it from a distance too. The reason why I went for physical damage is because dual immunes were a problem, and when facing the uber three, they also had minions completely immune to magic, so all 3 of your skill trees were useless. Thus, in the end, when you do the math, you are left with 2 elements + physical damage if you wanna be able to kill everything by yourself.

CB, OW, Passion with zeal all served this purpose.

I understand what you mean now. I'm sure she can get by with just physical Zeal + Static and any other 1 or 2 elemental spell attacks, BUT ...

How can a sorc deal high melee damage with no Dream or Dragon/Enchant? Most melee sorcs need the necessary advantage of Holy Shock and Enchant when zealing, thats where the biggest part of that 72K damage comes from. The physical part is negligible / almost useless. Holy Shock helps a lot against Baal and Diablo, while Enchant and Dragon add huge dmg vs Uber Meph. The only real physical killer in melee sorcs is the CB, but how much can she have? Did You go Gulli+Gores for 50%?? And OW is not really a big damager, its just for anti-regen.

[WizardFan]

I understand what you mean now. I'm sure she can get by with just physical Zeal + Static and any other 1 or 2 elemental spell attacks, BUT ...

How can a sorc deal high melee damage with no Dream or Dragon/Enchant? Most melee sorcs need the necessary advantage of Holy Shock and Enchant when zealing, thats where the biggest part of that 72K damage comes from. The physical part is negligible / almost useless. Holy Shock helps a lot against Baal and Diablo, while Enchant and Dragon add huge dmg vs Uber Meph. The only real physical killer in melee sorcs is the CB, but how much can she have? Did You go Gulli+Gores for 50%?? And OW is not really a big damager, its just for anti-regen.

A good question, and it deserves a good answer. You see, my goal was a sorceress that can challenge any monster and kill it. Magic immunes, dual immunes, physical immunes, whatever.

I know that elemental damage is insanely high with an enchant sorc, but when a monster immune to these elements comes up, it becomes downright useless. What's 72k damage when the monster is immune to it? Might as well be 0, right?

And I agree with you - it's not as fast as a paladin, and it doesn't deal as much damage. However, you can still get by with it, and high physical damage can aid you with mana leech and such, so you keep casting spells as you hack away.

The point of my sorcs was to use a combination of spells and physical damage to kill enemies (and it was very effective too), and use either elemental or physical damage against immunes. It fared decently, although I didn't get to test it all the way.

[ancalagon]

A good question, and it deserves a good answer. You see, my goal was a sorceress that can challenge any monster and kill it. Magic immunes, dual immunes, physical immunes, whatever.

I know that elemental damage is insanely high with an enchant sorc, but when a monster immune to these elements comes up, it becomes downright useless. What's 72k damage when the monster is immune to it? Might as well be 0, right?

And I agree with you - it's not as fast as a paladin, and it doesn't deal as much damage. However, you can still get by with it, and high physical damage can aid you with mana leech and such, so you keep casting spells as you hack away.

The point of my sorcs was to use a combination of spells and physical damage to kill enemies (and it was very effective too), and use either elemental or physical damage against immunes. It fared decently, although I didn't get to test it all the way.

(1) That I understand, no doubt about it. Why not? :)

(2) All true, but at the same time its the same gamble as with dual immunes ... you dont get dual immunes, specifically ones immune to both your elements, that very often. In this case we have insane light dmg + pretty high fire dmg to play with.

(3) I understand high physical damage with mana leech is a huge plus, but that is mainly my only gripe, everything else we are on the same page. Very low physical damage with Zeal on a sorc, so basically mana leech and life leech is gonna be a very low return too .... (Life Tap is another story, I assume you do know its confused with life leech and theyre not exactly the same.)

(4) Thats cool you actually got along very well with this build with no Dream and Dragon setup, how far along did you get though? Hell difficulty? Which acts?

[WizardFan]

2 - You're very right about everything. I wanted a sorc who could challenge the uber 3, as well as their magic immune minions, and I needed physical damage to accomplish this.

CB excells at weakening monsters that are at full HP, and then you can easily finish them off with a spell. OW is actually pretty darn good - it stacks, and when you stack it several times, trust me, the bleeding takes away a good chunk of a monster's HP. You'd be surprised at how effective OW actually is, when you manage to stack it quickly with Zeal.

I had this one case where I faced a dual immune and had to rely on physical damage. I had a sword with a low amount of CB and OW as well, didn't have Zeal. Even though the CB and OW % was low, I was surprised at how efective it was. I'm talking something like 15% to both CB and OW, and on Hell difficulty as well. The boss was dealt with somewhat slow, however, this was not the fault of my char, but rather my own fault - I focused on getting to hell ASAP, and I actually didn't farm any gear for my sorc at all!

So consider this: my gear was crap, all I had was a 15% or so CB and OW weapon, and was facing a hell difficulty boss with dual immunity, which I managed to kill with pretty much very crappy gear, and a pretty darn crappy weapon as well. Like I said, it did go kinda slow, but this was my fault for not farming up good gear to challenge Hell difficulty.

If I had farmed for better gear, I have no doubt that the boss would have went down fast and effective.

3 - Yes I know. Life Tap and life leech are 2 different things. I only mentioned mana leech as an added bonus, but don't take it too seriously. Mana leech through physical damage is not what my sorc was about. It was quite nice though as it made nice synergy with my concept, but apart from that, I agree, the leech is not very effective.

4 - That's what I was trying to say. I got to hell, had success with killing dual immune bosses, and after that I wasn't really motivated. I didn't get past act 1, sadly, as I lost the motivation.

However, as I said above, my gear was pretty crap. And I still managed. I imagine that with a phase passion blade, larger amounts of CB and OW, and other gear to enhance physical damage, my sorc could do a very good job.

It wasn't that my sorc couldn't handle hell, but rather, as I already mentioned multiple times, I lost the motivation and stopped playing. And now, all this talk is gettng me motivated again lol.

All in all, however, my sorceress concept was working.

[ancalagon]

2 - You're very right about everything. I wanted a sorc who could challenge the uber 3, as well as their magic immune minions, and I needed physical damage to accomplish this.

CB excells at weakening monsters that are at full HP, and then you can easily finish them off with a spell. OW is actually pretty darn good - it stacks, and when you stack it several times, trust me, the bleeding takes away a good chunk of a monster's HP. You'd be surprised at how effective OW actually is, when you manage to stack it quickly with Zeal.

I had this one case where I faced a dual immune and had to rely on physical damage. I had a sword with a low amount of CB and OW as well, didn't have Zeal. Even though the CB and OW % was low, I was surprised at how efective it was. I'm talking something like 15% to both CB and OW, and on Hell difficulty as well. The boss was dealt with somewhat slow, however, this was not the fault of my char, but rather my own fault - I focused on getting to hell ASAP, and I actually didn't farm any gear for my sorc at all!

So consider this: my gear was crap, all I had was a 15% or so CB and OW weapon, and was facing a hell difficulty boss with dual immunity, which I managed to kill with pretty much very crappy gear, and a pretty darn crappy weapon as well. Like I said, it did go kinda slow, but this was my fault for not farming up good gear to challenge Hell difficulty.

If I had farmed for better gear, I have no doubt that the boss would have went down fast and effective.

3 - Yes I know. Life Tap and life leech are 2 different things. I only mentioned mana leech as an added bonus, but don't take it too seriously. Mana leech through physical damage is not what my sorc was about. It was quite nice though as it made nice synergy with my concept, but apart from that, I agree, the leech is not very effective.

4 - That's what I was trying to say. I got to hell, had success with killing dual immune bosses, and after that I wasn't really motivated. I didn't get past act 1, sadly, as I lost the motivation.

However, as I said above, my gear was pretty crap. And I still managed. I imagine that with a phase passion blade, larger amounts of CB and OW, and other gear to enhance physical damage, my sorc could do a very good job.

It wasn't that my sorc couldn't handle hell, but rather, as I already mentioned multiple times, I lost the motivation and stopped playing. And now, all this talk is gettng me motivated again lol.

All in all, however, my sorceress concept was working.

LOL. Cool man! Didnt even know OW stacked!!! I thought it was the same damage over 8 seconds, no matter how much OW hit check you got! You sure of this?

[WizardFan]

LOL. Cool man! Didnt even know OW stacked!!! I thought it was the same damage over 8 seconds, no matter how much OW hit check you got! You sure of this?

Yep, I'm sure of this. With zeal, you can stack it like crazy, and when the bleeding adds up, it can actually cause some rather massive damage.

You can do around 2,000 points of bleeding damage at level 88 or so. So if we take that into account, and 50% OW, and let's say 4 attacks per second, that's 32 attacks in 8 seconds, 16 of which will trigger OW, meaning 32,000 physical damage in 8 seconds or so. Bosses and champions halve this damage, but around 16,000 damage in 8 seconds to bosses and champions is damn good.

Got the info and numbers from arreat summit. It stacks, and can deal impressive dmaage. Now add CB + zeal to this...

[ancalagon]

Yep, I'm sure of this. With zeal, you can stack it like crazy, and when the bleeding adds up, it can actually cause some rather massive damage.

You can do around 2,000 points of bleeding damage at level 88 or so. So if we take that into account, and 50% OW, and let's say 4 attacks per second, that's 32 attacks in 8 seconds, 16 of which will trigger OW, meaning 32,000 physical damage in 8 seconds or so. Bosses and champions halve this damage, but around 16,000 damage in 8 seconds to bosses and champions is damn good.

Got the info and numbers from arreat summit. It stacks, and can deal impressive dmaage. Now add CB + zeal to this...

Are you extremely sure? A Stone Skin Lister with me having around 40% OW did not die in 40 seconds. It took me forever when you take into account he was a single monster, like 5 to 10 minutes. He has around 55K life. Around 16K by 4, which takes 8 seconds by 4 for the necessary amount of OW checks = 32 secs = 40secs to be sure. Still rough estimates, but I doubt it stacks and creates that much damage in less than a minute.

EDIT

Open wounds stack in all cases, there is only one chance to trigger a open wounds per hit. There is no cap on how high the chance to trigger a open wounds can get, but anything over 100% is a waste. --> It should read Open WOunds % from items stacks.

there is only one chance to trigger a open wounds per hit --> means if you have Draculs and Gores, their OW will stack together for one total percentage, not two separate Open Wounds with that percentage. Thats what it means by stacking

[WizardFan]

Are you extremely sure? A Stone Skin Lister with me having around 40% OW did not die in 40 seconds. It took me forever when you take into account he was a single monster, like 5 to 10 minutes. He has around 55K life. Around 16K by 4 = 8 secodns by 4 = 32 secs = 40secs to be sure. Still rough estimates, but I doubt it stacks and creates that much damage

Stone skin means physical resistance. Monsters with stone skin are extremely resistant to physical damage, and thus I believe they reduce ALL physical damage, even bleeding damage.

It's like elemental resists - it doesn't matter if a spell deal damage over time, reistsances will still lower it. Stone skin acts in a similar way. It reduces all physical damage, including bleed effects. (I may be wrong here on stone skin, but I don't think I am).

Another possible explanation may be low char lv, because bleed damage actually depends on your char level. Lister is also a boss, meaning he bleeds for only 1/2 the damage.

There are a lot of factors that could contribute to you dealing very low bleed damage with OW - char lv, stone skin attribute, the fact that lister is a boss and takes only half bleed damage.

[ancalagon]

Stone skin means physical resistance. Monsters with stone skin are extremely resistant to physical damage, and thus I believe they reduce ALL physical damage, even bleeding damage.

It's like elemental resists - it doesn't matter if a spell deal damage over time, reistsances will still lower it. Stone skin acts in a similar way. It reduces all physical damage, including bleed effects.

Another possible explanation may be low char lv, because bleed damage actually depends on your char level. Lister is also a boss, meaning he bleeds for only 1/2 the damage.

There are a lot of factors that could contribute to you dealing very low bleed damage with OW - char lv, stone skin attribute, the fact that lister is a boss and takes only half bleed damage.

I meant to say Stone Skin which ultimately made him Physical Immune, Open Wounds is like a 7th element in that it is not physical damage either. Thats why it works on PI's. There is nothing resisting it. I also dont think bosses take half its damage, but you could be right.

I took into account him taking half damage (how did you come up with this also?) when I came up with that calculation, and my clvl was 91 zealot :)

Check out my edit on my last post.

EDIT:

Taking into account I am dealing 2400 unresisted damage over 8 seconds, that is approximately (55k / 2400) 23 x 8 = 184 seconds = 3 minutes. Seemed like more than 3 minutes, but its been a long time. Could be true. If it really does half listed damage, then 6 minutes! Makes more sense

I doubt OW stacks in that sense that its damage stacks, and also I dont think its does 50% damage vs Bosses/Uniques.

SECOND EDIT:

Life loss per frame:

Clvl=1-15: ((9 * Clvl+31) / 256)) * Modifier
Clvl=16-30: ((18 * Clvl-104) / 256) * Modifier
Clvl=31-45: ((27 * Clvl-374) / 256) * Modifier
Clvl=46-60: ((36 * Clvl-779) / 256) * Modifier
Clvl=61-99: ((45 * Clvl-1319) / 256) * Modifier

where Modifier differs for attack type and target:

0.25 for attacker using a Melee Attack on a Player.
0.125 for attacker using Ranged Attack on a Player.
0.5 for attacker using Ranged or Melee on a Boss Monster or minion.
1 for attacker using Ranged or Melee on any other target.

Correct on bosses taking 0.5 damage! Then it took 6 minutes, which makes sense. He was PI and I had very small negligible poison and cold damage from charms / Ravenfrost! Exclusive OW damage!

[WizardFan]

I see. The info about bosses taking only 1/2 half damage from bleeding is on arreat summit.

Also, as far as the stacking goes, I just remembered that OW does not stack in the latest version, but rather that it used to stack in previous versions or something like that. So yeah, guess you can't stack the damage anymore. Sorry about that one, I totally messed up o_O

So yeah you're right about stacking. Where the hell was my mind when I was reading that info, oh God.

[ancalagon]

I see. The info about bosses taking only 1/2 half damage from bleeding is on arreat summit.

Also, as far as the stacking goes, I just remembered that OW does not stack in the latest version, but rather that it used to stack in previous versions or something like that. So yeah, guess you can't stack the damage anymore. Sorry about that one, I totally messed up o_O

So yeah you're right about stacking. Where the hell was my mind when I was reading that info, oh God.

Its cool, it can be misinterpreted because its not worded correctly. Even I thought it was so and you were right, until I remembered how long it took to kill a PI Lister, who happens to be the biggest HP toting 'normal' monster, so to speak :thumbup:

[Runestar]

I need to correct my initial post. It wasn't no immunes, but more that immunities will be less crippling.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-2008-diablo-iii-tidbits/

Sorry for any confusion caused. :crazyeyes:

[ancalagon]

I need to correct my initial post. It wasn't no immunes, but more that immunities will be less crippling.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-2008-diablo-iii-tidbits/

Sorry for any confusion caused. :crazyeyes:

Nice link, thanks.

One of the barbarian's skills 'ignores' damage immunities, and instead enemies take half damage. Not sure if its just physical damage or even elemental damage added to his melee attacks from weapon mods, which means ... can he tackle all immunes or just PI's? However this skill depletes all your Fury at once, so I dont think its very effective against a huge mob of immunes, unless of course more skill points and runes change its cost / duration / etc. We wait and see :) Sounds interesting, I definitely do not want the same OP multi immune enemies of D2 LOD.

EDIT:

''We’re looking at most players having an average of six “active"skills, these are your magic missiles, frost nova, electrocute (to use a few wizard examples), and because you’re not just pumping up one single skill - and thus one single damage type, immunities become far less relevant''
(Bashiok)

I see, but the Barbarian seems 100% physical damage, or maybe some magic/arcane damage from Hammer of the Ancients (or is it physical too?), so apart from the skill I mentioned (Wrath of the berserker), it will be up to weapon mods to overcome PI's or maybe skill runes adding substantial passive elemental damage to melee attacks?

Wrath of the Berserker
Active
Rank: 1/5
Description: Enter a heighten state of fury, raising several stats for 12 seconds. Monsters with damage immunities will take 50% less damage from the Barbarian’s attacks rather than being immune.
Critical Hit: +100%
Attack Speed: +50%
Dodge Chance: +10%
Movement Speed: +20%
Cost: 3 Fury Orbs

This sounds like quite an uber skill, and wince at that fury cost. Three bulbs means you’d have to be totally full to use it, and would go down to nothing after casting this one. The main benefit looks like the debuff it puts on immune enemies, and note that it’s not a party skill since it only breaks immunities for the Barbarian rather than for everyone in the party.

[Runestar]

This sounds like quite an uber skill, and wince at that fury cost. Three bulbs means you’d have to be totally full to use it, and would go down to nothing after casting this one. The main benefit looks like the debuff it puts on immune enemies, and note that it’s not a party skill since it only breaks immunities for the Barbarian rather than for everyone in the party.

Does the ability to penetrate PI last for 12 seconds, or only for that attack? If it is the former, that may be enough time to build up your fury to max so you can refresh berserk.

Unless of course, it has some long cooldown period...:(

[WizardFan]

Its cool, it can be misinterpreted because its not worded correctly. Even I thought it was so and you were right, until I remembered how long it took to kill a PI Lister, who happens to be the biggest HP toting 'normal' monster, so to speak

Yeah, and on top of that I'm too lazy to read properly lol.

Does the ability to penetrate PI last for 12 seconds, or only for that attack? If it is the former, that may be enough time to build up your fury to max so you can refresh berserk.

The entire ability appears to be a buff that lasts 12 seconds, and thus affects all attacks you make within that time. It doesn't make sense if it lasts for just one attack, you couldn't do anything with that.

I'm 100% sure it affects all attacks made within the next 12 seconds.

[Sir Mister]

This.

This would mean that we get 2 damage types in just 1 tree, thus eliminating the need to put points in 2 trees for 2 types of damage, like it was always the case for the DII sorceress, who, for this very reason, had huge problems with immunes, and dual immunes, not to mention the problem of how to allocate skill points.

If we get 2 damage types in 1 tree, we're killing 2 birds with one stone (don't have to worry about dual immunes, and we spend less skill points).

Of course we still don't know if dual immunes will exist in DIII, but if we indeed receive 2 damage types in one tree, there probably will be.

The other point to this is the fact that you no longer need to sink points into a tree at ALL. You can freely choose abilities from ANY tree, as long as you are of the approprate level. Their whole idea with this is to Encourage you to play the way you want. With skills maxing at 5 anyway, it's not like picking up a fire spell is Ever going to be a tough proposition, so having multipe damage types in one tree vs. separate trees is kind of a moot point now.

[shaflabi]

Ameko smirks at you, "Well, that's not a concern. The game I'm building will be completely free-to-play. As far as helping out goes: It's completely non-commitment. Everything is completely open to the community. If the average player wants to send in a room, they can just do it, and they're pretty likely to get accepted. I want to keep development open to everyone, and let the community influence how everything goes.".


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