View Full Version : Witch Doctor Observations
Here's an excerpt from a sort of general audience D3 @ Blizzcon article I wrote for incgamers.com. (Not yet online.) I'll get into some more detailed gameplay reports this weekend, once the rush of getting the skills articles online is past. But here's something for now.
The Wizard, Witch Doctor, and Barbarian were all playable as well. (Cleverly, only those three characters were visible to select when the show first began at 10am, but around 12:30, when the opening ceremonies ended, the Monk was suddenly added to the character selection screen.) Each of the other three characters were improved and refined from last year's version, with huge changes to their skill trees and the order of their skills. This year's demo characters were higher level as well, allowing players to experiment with a wider variety of spells and techniques. "New" characters started out at level 6 last year. This year they started at level 12, and could be leveled up to 14 or 15, in the much larger "dungeon" area.
Playing the Witch Doctor was almost a relief after the barrage of options the Wizard presented. A new Witch Doctor has just as many spells, but there are more passives early on, and his active spells are clearly divided between summoning and offensive attack spells. Both must be used to succeed, since his offensive attacks aren't as powerful as those of the Wizard, and his summoned creatures (at least at these early levels) aren't strong enough to do much killing on their own.
The Witch Doctor is somewhat similar to Diablo 2's Necromancer, in that both have summoned creatures, limited offensive spells, and some mind control abilities. The Witch Doctor's mental powers are much more direct and less powerful than were the Necromancer's Curses. Early on the Witch Doctor is able to frighten away enemies, but little more, and none of his Mind Control spells have the offensive potential of some of the Necromancer's Curses. Compensating for this are his offensive spells, which are considerably more effective than those of the Necromancer, if less destructive than those of a true mage, like D3's Wizard or D2's Sorceress.
As a result the Witch Doctor is a tricky juggling act for the designers. He's got to have minions good enough to be useful, but not so strong he can just sit back and watch them go. And he's got to have spell attacks powerful enough to dispatch the enemies, but not so strong that he can survive with just those, Wizard-style. This delicate balance was working fairly well in the Blizzcon build, though I would have liked a few more low level offensive spells. Firebomb and Plague of Toads were the two main options, and both were fun to use, but Firebomb was more effective in 90% of situations, and it got a bit monotonous, endlessly hurling the explosive, fire-grenades. Especially when compared to the Wizard's huge array of low level attacks. There are higher level Witch Doctor spells that sounded like a lot of fun, but they were either too deep down the skill tree, or were disabled in the Blizzcon demo.
Mad Mantis
28-08-2009, 23:12
Thanks for the gameplay report. I can't say that I'm liking what I'm hearing. It seems to confirm my fear that the amount of builds for the WD will be very low. With the only difference being how much of a caster or how much of a summoner he is. He doesn't have a lot of utility spells that would allow for an alternative playstyle.
I had a long conversation with Chris Haga, one of the lead artists on D3 (at lunch thursday before Blizzcon, as part of the Fansite Summit visit to Bliz HQ). He couldn't go into many specific details (I wished I could have talked to him after the Monk reveal), but one of the things he stressed repeatedly was how open they are to change and reworking things. Iteration, iteration, iteration, he reiterated. If something's not fun, or isn't working right, or has problems, they'll change it.
That's the real reason their games take so long to make, but it's also why Bliz games are always so fun. They don't settle for good enough (at least not in their opinion; fans sometimes differ) and they'll rework or throw things out if need be. So while it's kind of lame to be all fanboy and say something like, "trust in them to get the WD fun to play, and if it seems lame now they'll agree and make changes." and yet that's pretty much the size of things. I'm sure we'll all end up disagreeing (with each other and with Bliz) on some balance issues, but I am confident that all of the characters will be a lot of fun to play, and have a lot of varied build options.
Occasional *cough* similarities aside, they know they're not making WoW 2 here, where everything is set on a template and you must support skill x and y, play in parties with set types of chars, etc. They want to allow a huge amount of variety in D3 char types, and just b/c we can't see it yet with the WD doesn't mean it's not there, or that it's not going to be there long term. It looks to me like the WD is under heavy construction; how many skills were NYI, or had just a quick description and not even any relevant stats yet? The Barb and Wiz are clearly much further along in their dev and balancing.
Jedouard
28-08-2009, 23:41
When I first heard about the WD, I was disappointed. I wanted a necro. I got over it. Then I thought he would be the first char I would try because his mechanics matched my interests the most. But, reading the new information about him makes me think this is less and less the case?
The question is: Why play a mage with a meatshield versus just a mage or a meatshield (i.e. tank)?
The best reason I could think of is that the mage with the meatshield would take time to build up a devastating attack with lots of buffs, debuffs and dps coming in first to be followed by a massive AoE.
Looking at the WD, none of his skills seem to point this direction. In short, he looks like a WEAK mage with a meatshield whose only task is to spam his most damaging skill from behind his dogs. So, why not go for the powerful mage (wizard) or the powerful meatshield tank (barbarian)? The latter two are beginning to look like better options in terms of faster killers, and it is not likely that we will be spamming any more with them than with the WD (if not less).
engagequadlaser
29-08-2009, 00:53
Removed
10char
Judging from his full spell list on the front page, he needs a lot more mind affecting/curses skills and a lot less mana recovery widgets, and crappy passives
Then don't play him. Simple.
I personally like his playstyle, as I'm sure many others do as well. If he's not for you, then play your meatshield or your mage.
Well, well. What would we do without the new guys? :coffee:
This is a thread about comparing, contrasting, and discussing the development of the Witch Doc. This is not a thread in which you defend your most fave class from any and all constructive criticism. As such, this thread isn't appropriate for the "Well, I like him, so if you don't just don't play Blizzard games and quit being an ingrate" comments.
Well i believe blizzard will balance everything by the time they release the game.. As we all diablo fans know that monsters in the later part of diablo adventure has immunity to element attacks and thats when witch doctor come in handy. For example a monster immune to ice & fire a wizard will have a hard time killing it that is when a witch doctor come in and spam his poison based attacks and vice versa. D3 might be focusing alot on Co-op gameplay, his summons can be useful when attacked by multiple enemies to block off and spread, even out damages among your team and the summons or to divert attention , much of a support role. i think witch doctor is definitely a fun to play character although i myself wish for more offensive spells.
Anyway Thank You Flux for all the details of the new witch doctor spells it just made me more excited to play the game. Fetish Army! that sounds like Death Knight with Army of the Dead? haha :D
Jedouard
29-08-2009, 21:32
Then don't play him. Simple.
I personally like his playstyle, as I'm sure many others do as well. If he's not for you, then play your meatshield or your mage.
I hate this sort of response. If it wasn't clear by my comment or the fact that I bothered posting, the WD's mechanics had/have promise to be the one that most fits my play style. I do not enjoy direct player-skill-monster dynamic as much as I do the indirect player-skill-SUMMON-monster dynamic.
The problem is that:
1) I have always found his visuals weak in comparison to the other characters;
2) He now appears actually weak in comparison to the all the other characters, as his summons do no damage and his spells do very little;
3) His skill list makes it look like there will be very few possible builds.
My hopes are that he will undergo a heavy overhaul, getting better skill visuals, damage and variety.
Grumpy Old Wizard
30-08-2009, 05:07
I'll bet things change somewhat before release. The WD needs to be playable as a "pure" summoner or a pure spellcaster, like the Necro is in D2.
raveharu
30-08-2009, 07:38
I'll bet things change somewhat before release. The WD needs to be playable as a "pure" summoner or a pure spellcaster, like the Necro is in D2.
Hell no, the idea of having a pure summoner is hideous.
It is clear Blizzard doesn't want history to repeat itself, they want the WD to be able to summon as well as to be a spellcaster. Time duration for the new summon skills is already evidence.
I hate this sort of response. If it wasn't clear by my comment or the fact that I bothered posting, the WD's mechanics had/have promise to be the one that most fits my play style. I do not enjoy direct player-skill-monster dynamic as much as I do the indirect player-skill-SUMMON-monster dynamic.
The problem is that:
1) I have always found his visuals weak in comparison to the other characters;
2) He now appears actually weak in comparison to the all the other characters, as his summons do no damage and his spells do very little;
3) His skill list makes it look like there will be very few possible builds.
My hopes are that he will undergo a heavy overhaul, getting better skill visuals, damage and variety.
What I think is that the WD is something of a new concept, Blizzard would've tons of spells made for the WD (and probably for the other classes as well) BUT remember, they have to balance the skills with the rune system implemented as well.
I think the WD is the most interesting class to use runes on, especially if they can be used on his summons.
engagequadlaser
30-08-2009, 07:52
Removed
10char
Grumpy Old Wizard
30-08-2009, 12:03
Hell no, the idea of having a pure summoner is hideous.
It is clear Blizzard doesn't want history to repeat itself, they want the WD to be able to summon as well as to be a spellcaster. Time duration for the new summon skills is already evidence.
I think they are making a mistake if they lock the WD into one style of play. I don't see anything wrong with being able to play the WD as either a summoner or as a spellcaster or as a hybrid. More options is better.
Oh, you may not enjoy the Necro summoner but many of us do. I like lots of builds.
Mad Mantis
30-08-2009, 13:09
Hell no, the idea of having a pure summoner is hideous.
Why? Does it ruin your enjoyment of the class if someone else is able to make a pure Summoner? With all the skills and passives focusing on Summons Blizz seem like they do want to make a pure summoner possible. They may yell that they don't want to do it, but so far their skills seem to say otherwise.
This is an absolutely good thing, as I don't want a pure anything out of the WD. A mix is where it is and should be at.
Right now he has one build. That is **** for a character. No alternative way to play the character will kill off all interest in him really quickly.
I think they are making a mistake if they lock the WD into one style of play. I don't see anything wrong with being able to play the WD as either a summoner or as a spellcaster or as a hybrid. More options is better.
Oh, you may not enjoy the Necro summoner but many of us do. I like lots of builds.
If that's what they aare doing then I imagine the WD would be far more complete along the development process by now. The fact that they are locking out so many skills and redoing/retinkering the WD points out that a lot of WIP is still abound in making the WD more varied. Summoning and dark spells aside I hope the WD is NOT like the necro at all. What's so great about waiting so many years for another necromancer when you can just play D2??
Darkflight
12-09-2009, 23:07
Right now he looks limited. I can agree to that. However, that gets us nowhere. Blizzard will change him over and over and over again. And then change him a couple of more times. This discussion is therefor pointless. It may be fun, but it's still pointless. If he still has only one viable way to play when they are starting to close in on beta, then there can be legit concerns about the way they have made the Witch Doctor.
Until then, have fun.
I'm kind of siding with Mad Mantis here, but I do have faith that Blizzard will allow diverse builds with the WD class. It would be a HUGE mistake for them not to allow this diversity, as all the other classes would be able to specialize.
Therefore, I think they should make it so a pure summoner, or a pure caster (as in DD spells/DOTs), or a pure (maybe not pure..) crowd controller, IS viable.
But, either way, I do believe the class will have diverse builds. I am very confident that Blizzard will not f*** this class up.
I'd still play him though even if he did have only one viable build :P
I am of the opinion that at least 4 builds should be possible with the Witch Doctor:
1. Direct damage (with your choice of emphasizing fire or plague skills)
2. A summoner, with an army of buffed-up Mongrels, zombies and a Gargantuan
3. A mind control build of some kind (like D2's Mojomancer (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247308))
4. A minion/direct damage hybrid
I also agree with a previous poster who argued that Blizzard should replace a few of the Witch Doctor's useless passive skills with some new mind control spells.
Mind control is part of the Witch Doctor theme, and should be explored much more thoroughly.
I am of the opinion that at least 4 builds should be possible with the Witch Doctor:
1. Direct damage (with your choice of emphasizing fire or plague skills)
2. A summoner, with an army of buffed-up Mongrels, zombies and a Gargantuan
3. A mind control build of some kind (like D2's Mojomancer (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247308))
4. A minion/direct damage hybrid
I also agree with a previous poster who argued that Blizzard should replace a few of the Witch Doctor's useless passive skills with some new mind control spells.
Mind control is part of the Witch Doctor theme, and should be explored much more thoroughly.
I agree completely, the only thing is a bunch of skills were NYI or WIP like the fetish skills so who knows if they keep going with that idea you could have a fetish summoner or a zombie summoner or a mix, so it just opens up many possibilities. Or also with all the summons that you cast and forget about (plague of toads, corpse spiders, etc.) theres another build if they make it viable. Personally im excited to make a WD that focuses on the toads!! that will be fun.
What if the Witch Doctor had a top-tier mind control spell that actually allowed him to turn monsters into minions?
It could work like "Parasite," in that it would be a curse that would only take effect if the monster died while under the curse.
So you cast the curse, the monster dies while cursed, and it arises to serve you.
Call it "Possess."
. Personally im excited to make a WD that focuses on the toads!! that will be fun.
Dude, Plauge of Toads SUCKS.
It looks like a joke of a skill.
Why? What makes it suck? Just cause it looks awesome? Have you not seen the gameplay videos where the WD uses it all the time? Also, in D2 there were many sorceress that specialized in charged bolt, same idea. I like being different, and ill probably make a Toad Master!
Well, A) As you said, it's not different, it's basically Charged Bolt.
B) What makes it sucks it its crappy animation. The idea is awesome but the animation is one of the reason the WD get so flamed all the time. Especially now that they've narrow down the seeking element of the Toads- Which was the main cool thing about them.
Ed from Russia
24-10-2009, 23:27
I'm pretty sure that when the game gets out there will be enough variants of the WD to create. In the skill tree I saw some time ago there were a couple of different summons, and I'm also pretty sure you can play summonless. There are some direct damage skills and a skill like Swarm of Locusts (is that the name), that works like D2 Rabies but looks a lot cooler (and doesn't crash PvM games). The class is simply not finished yet.
Why anyone would play with summons? Ask anyone who likes the necromancer or non-ss druid, or who likes to have a Valkyrie or Shadow Master. It can provide safety so you can use ranged attacks (not everyone focuses only on melee), it can be an extra source of damage (or a different type). To me, always playing melee characters is boring. I like to play a barb for a few weeks, the switch to an Amazon, then a Trapsin, and after that perhaps a skellymancer. It keeps the game interesting.
a black kid
25-10-2009, 13:57
Well, A) As you said, it's not different, it's basically Charged Bolt.
i made more charged boltresses than i did any other type of character. i found it fun as hell.
B) What makes it sucks it its crappy animation.
matter of opinion, i think it looks awesome... not all skills need to be all flash and pizazz... they are frogs, and imo look good.
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