View Full Version : No room for doubt: 5th class = ranger
CCCenturion
24-08-2009, 23:48
With 4 of 5 classes announced, and the designers' stated intent that the original classes represent all of the standard archetypes for fantasy game characters, I really don't see how the 5th class can be anything other than a ranger/hunter/archer type of character.
I think the coolest way to do this would be to draw from the Amazon and Assassin classes and make some variations on their skills. You'd get a Bow tree, a Traps tree, and a Throwing Weapons tree based on the Zon's javelin skills, but applicable to knives and axes, and hopefully new weapons like shuriken and boomerangs. All of the classes are going to have passive skills scattered among each of their trees, so Passive & Magic skills and Shadow skills could reappear, but not in their own trees.
Of course, I wouldn't want to see all of the same old skills coming back; some old ones could reappear either directly or with some changes, but most of the skills should be new ones. I think that this would be a good mix of skill categories for a Ranger class. It would be hard to come up with a better Ranger than the Amazon was, but I think that adding in Traps and more versatility for weapon choices would be a great way to start.
EDIT: By the way, there have been a lot of fanmade ranger classes in this forum, and I haven't had time to read all (read: any) of them. So if I'm unwittingly ripping off someone else's ideas, then all I can say is great minds think alike.
Cormac McArt
25-08-2009, 02:18
They apparently are saving the best for the last. Check NASE's thread for the Ranger.
SEANBCOOL
25-08-2009, 03:49
Yeah, it's going to be a Ranger. People calling for and/or expecting a "shield" class (which doesn't even really make sense) don't get it.
I'm looking for a Ranger with a Combat tree, and maybe summoning and traps trees.
red_beard_neo
25-08-2009, 04:42
With 4 of 5 classes announced, and the designers' stated intent that the original classes represent all of the standard archetypes for fantasy game characters, I really don't see how the 5th class can be anything other than a ranger/hunter/archer type of character.
A cleric. Probably not the healing side so much, but maybe an anti-undead tree, an anti-demon tree...
People calling for and/or expecting a "shield" class (which doesn't even really make sense) don't get it.
...and a "shield" tree.
CCCenturion
25-08-2009, 05:12
I don't know about that. I thought about the cleric idea too, but I think in terms of classic archetypes, ranger trumps cleric. Besides, with the Monk class they already have one holy warrior. Might not be your traditional cleric role, but the Witch Doctor isn't the traditional black magic archetype either.
People hoping for a "shield" class never would even have thought of such a class if it weren't for D2's Smite skill and all its gamewrecking unbalancedness.
The shield class will come in an expansion. We can expect something along the lines of an ranger for the 5th class.
Moogleflakes
25-08-2009, 07:03
Classic rangers could always do the melee thing pretty well, though they'd tended to focus on range. Look at most ranger archetypes in fantasy history, and you'll see they all did their fair share of swordplay. How that syncs up with D3's simple gameplay elements remains to be seen.
They'll almost certainly have the archery and traps trees, but I think they'll forego throwing weapons (too much overlap with archery) and have a melee tree for a secondary play style.
I'd definitely expect a shieldbearing class in the first expansion, along with the druid. As for the shieldbearing class, I'd love to see a crossbreed of the paladin and necromancer for it in mechanics, but with a distinctly demonic flare.
sunkenfaith
25-08-2009, 07:32
Ranger seems the most probable; but yet I am secretly hoping that a Cleric of sorts will be in it. With the potions having a CD, having a Cleric with points in 'Holy" to heal you during multiplayer games, and Cleric investing in the 'Smite/Avenge' tree to solo. (DPS)
Think Holy/Disc priest and Shadow priest in WoW.
Technomancer
25-08-2009, 08:45
Yeah, I was kinda hoping for a core Cleric class too, but I think they pretty much shut that down with the Monk. If they do add a Cleric, it won't be until expansion. I hope they do, I'd love to see a Holy Caster bringing down the Fire of Light to cleanse demonic noobs!! BEHOLD!!
Cormac McArt
25-08-2009, 14:32
Do you guys think D3 is going to have multiple expansions like WoW?
As for close-quarter melee abilities for the Ranger - you don't need to alternate Bow with Sword/Axe/Mace - you can use one weapon kind for the both tasks - you get it?
Javelins of course!
Hurl at Range and when they're close Poke them!
I actually like short swords, daggers and scimitar. Like a LotR elf.
Technomancer
26-08-2009, 03:42
Do you guys think D3 is going to have multiple expansions like WoW?
Oh yes, there will be multiple expansions. I've been predicting it for months, but about 2/3rds down on this thread page (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735137&page=2), Flux pwnd me and set me straight that there's been official near-confirmation of it late last year.
SEANBCOOL
26-08-2009, 19:59
People hoping for a "shield" class never would even have thought of such a class if it weren't for D2's Smite skill and all its gamewrecking unbalancedness.
EXACTLY.
There is no such thing as a "shield" archetype. It doesn't make sense. People like to assume it's necessary just because there was a Paladin in the last game who was geared toward the use of a shields.
The Monk is the new Paladin in pretty much every way imaginable. If the last class is a Cleric, a Knight, or any other similar class, I will shoot myself in the mouth. That's how confident I am that it will not happen.
EXACTLY.
There is no such thing as a "shield" archetype. It doesn't make sense. People like to assume it's necessary just because there was a Paladin in the last game who was geared toward the use of a shields.
Actually, there is such an archetype in RPGs. It's generally known as the 'sword and board' character; i.e. the class most likely to run around with a shield in one hand and a melee weapon (though sword is the most favored) in the other. Heavy/Plate armor is also associated with this; though they are then referred to as a 'knight' archetype.
Chorkstain
28-08-2009, 05:02
Yup, and we have the Barbarian for that. Why would you make an entire class devoted to using a shield when one class can cover that with a small handful of skills?
sirBeReN
28-08-2009, 11:49
Ranger seems the most probable; but yet I am secretly hoping that a Cleric of sorts will be in it.
Couldn't agree more :)
Jaxxkelly
28-08-2009, 12:14
I still think it's gonna be called a Hunter
CCCenturion
28-08-2009, 21:59
Ranger / Hunter / Archer ... we all mean the same thing. But as for the actual name they give the character, I think they should go with something more original and call it a Mangudai (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316298).
Elric-Logain
30-08-2009, 02:38
EXACTLY.
There is no such thing as a "shield" archetype. It doesn't make sense. People like to assume it's necessary just because there was a Paladin in the last game who was geared toward the use of a shields.
The Monk is the new Paladin in pretty much every way imaginable. If the last class is a Cleric, a Knight, or any other similar class, I will shoot myself in the mouth. That's how confident I am that it will not happen.You may not think that "Shield" is an archetype, but it covers an INCREDIBLY common play style referred to as "Sword and Board," which goes all the way back to pen and paper RPGs. This is how the Warrior AND Paladin played in D1 and D2. It is a more defensively-oriented play style that focuses on using one-handed weapons with a shield.
Yup, and we have the Barbarian for that. Why would you make an entire class devoted to using a shield when one class can cover that with a small handful of skills?Not really, considering that the barbarian is an offensive-oriented that focuses on two-handers and dual-wielding and not one-handed weapons and shields.
smokeeblade
31-08-2009, 12:46
Was actually discussing this with a friend today, also nailing it down to the 5th being a ranged character.
Not sure if the timing fits, but I thought an interesting character could be a Buccaneer (old school AoE II style :D). I can't imagine them not throwing in a ranged non-caster character as there 5th, however I equally can't imagine them putting up another Zon-type as I don't think there's much room to move let alone innovate.
CCCenturion
31-08-2009, 18:26
Not really, considering that the barbarian is an offensive-oriented that focuses on two-handers and dual-wielding and not one-handed weapons and shields.
Says who? If you want a sword-and-board character, just play a Barbarian that uses a shield.
The barbarian doesn't have to look you want for a sword-and-board character. And honestly, I don't see where you find the skills for this character in the barbarian.
The barbarian is atmost a weak substitute (although I think we should just cope with it, a ranged character is more important).
Galtrovan
31-08-2009, 21:05
We are going to get a Rogue class...
- Bows, Crossbows, and Throwing Daggers
- Traps, Poison/Other-tipped arrows/bolts/daggers
- Illusion/Confusion/Evasion skills
Just wait until August 2010 to find out.
mandaumn
31-08-2009, 23:07
Well, I think that the 5th class design will be inspired by Jamella, the 4th act NPC. They'll problably give her some mystic ranger feel. I don't know, some ranged weapon skills, some arcane traps/assist. I think her design was reallly cool and I would love to see someone like her being playable. And it definetly fits the bill of "someone" returning (as quoted from JW's IGN interview).
Elric-Logain
01-09-2009, 00:23
Says who? If you want a sword-and-board character, just play a Barbarian that uses a shield.The demos are quite revealing of the barbarian play style, and it does not really match with the sword-n-board. There also does not seem to be the skill support.
CCCenturion
01-09-2009, 01:23
The demos are quite revealing of the barbarian play style, and it does not really match with the sword-n-board. There also does not seem to be the skill support.
The barbarian doesn't have to look you want for a sword-and-board character. And honestly, I don't see where you find the skills for this character in the barbarian.
The barbarian is atmost a weak substitute (although I think we should just cope with it, a ranged character is more important).
Perhaps I haven't fully appreciated the sword-n-board playstyle, because I don't really know what I'm missing in terms of the necessary skill support. I always thought shields were just there to boost your defense. What exactly are you looking for in a S&B class anyway?
As NASE said though, a ranger class is much more important at this point. We've got two melee fighters and two mages; without a ranger there would be no point in including bows in D3. And what would a Diablo game be without any bows?
Elric-Logain
01-09-2009, 08:20
Perhaps I haven't fully appreciated the sword-n-board playstyle, because I don't really know what I'm missing in terms of the necessary skill support. I always thought shields were just there to boost your defense. What exactly are you looking for in a S&B class anyway?A class that focuses on defensive melee with possible caster undertones.
As NASE said though, a ranger class is much more important at this point. We've got two melee fighters and two mages; without a ranger there would be no point in including bows in D3. And what would a Diablo game be without any bows?A Diablo game without bows. About the same as a Diablo game without shields.
Well, I think that the 5th class design will be inspired by Jamella, the 4th act NPC. They'll problably give her some mystic ranger feel. I don't know, some ranged weapon skills, some arcane traps/assist. I think her design was reallly cool and I would love to see someone like her being playable. And it definetly fits the bill of "someone" returning (as quoted from JW's IGN interview).
I had this thought too - Jamella seems like the coolest NPC archetype from the prior games to translate into a player character.
CCCenturion
01-09-2009, 15:35
A class that focuses on defensive melee with possible caster undertones.
Sounds like you just want them to bring back the Paladin. But this is Diablo 3 we're talking about, not Diablo 2 in 3D.
A Diablo game without bows. About the same as a Diablo game without shields.
Well, it's a good thing that we're not getting a Diablo game without shields. But so far, D3 doesn't have anyone that uses bows.
Elric-Logain
01-09-2009, 22:43
Sounds like you just want them to bring back the Paladin. But this is Diablo 3 we're talking about, not Diablo 2 in 3D.As opposed to sounding like you want to just bring back rogue and amazon bow classes? I would rather see mage/warrior hybrid of some variety than just another paladin.
Well, it's a good thing that we're not getting a Diablo game without shields. But so far, D3 doesn't have anyone that uses bows.Oh, just give a barbarian a bow, and he'll do fine.
CCCenturion
02-09-2009, 06:07
As opposed to sounding like you want to just bring back rogue and amazon bow classes? I would rather see mage/warrior hybrid of some variety than just another paladin.
Go back and read my original post. I'd like to see a ranger with bow skills, throwing skills, trap skills, and some melee as well. (Forgot to mention melee in the OP though.) Definitely not just a Rogue or Zon repeat.
And a Paladin IS a mage/warrior hybrid of some variety. But that's not very fair of me. If I'm not mistaken, I think you might be hoping for an Iron Wolves (Act 3 merc) type character with a bit more melee? If so, I think that would be cool to have, but in an expansion. As I've said a dozen times already, the four classes they have now have the melee and caster classes represented, but the ranged class is conspicuously missing.
Defensive melee / caster hybrid is not a general class archetype. Like all hybrids, it's a specialized class, and those are the sort of things that show up in expansions.
By the way, I should mention that I'm not trashing your idea of a mage/warrior shield class. I think it would be an awesome class to play. I don't even play bow users all that often, in any game. But lots of people do like them, and that's why they're one of the standard archetype classes of any RPG. The point I'm trying to make here is not that your class idea is a bad one, just that it's FAR more likely that we'll be seeing a ranger as the 5th class than another melee or caster (or hybrid of the two).
Oh, just give a barbarian a bow, and he'll do fine.
No, none of his skills are made for bows. But the Barb has plenty of defense-boosting skills if you want to play him defensively.
First, I havent read all the threads created about this 5th class, just so you know. Maybe someone already mentioned this.
I dont exactly know the word in english but im thinking something like a Forest Keeper. Specialize in surviving in the woodlands with ranged attacks like bow, knife, spear, blowpipe(?) etc. He will be accompaned by some kind of summons, maybe animal or just animal spirits.
The skill trees will be:
1. Offensive skills (involving mainly ranged attacks)
2. Passive or defensive skills (connected to the forest in some way, one skill could boost the defense very much like the D2Barbs "Iron skin" but will be named "Thick as a trunk" or something :)
3. Summon tree (Maybe the wolfes are back, either some spirits, real animals who normally life in the forest or imaginary beasts).
Perhaps there will be room for some shape-shifting skills as well, maybe in skill-tree nr 2 above.
anonymous
04-09-2009, 14:59
the 5th class WILL be a ranger type class, i.e. uses a bow (primarily). Not only does this makes sense, but there is proof. Blizzard has had pics of him for some time now mixed into the screenshots on blizzard's official D3 site. While it is likely that these pics may not be the final rendition of the character, however, it does support the archtype of the "ranger" class. Pics 1 and 5 of the screenshots show what looks like two mercs with swords and shields fighting enemies, while another character stands back a bit from the fight holding a bow. Pic 5 shows this best.
Those are just mercs. If you watch one of those first videos, you see that they join in at the same time as the mele mercs.
So that's far from proof.
P.S. And a ranger is different from a simple character that uses a bow. A ranger combines that with light mele skills (often dual wielding).
the 5th class WILL be a ranger type class, i.e. uses a bow (primarily). Not only does this makes sense, but there is proof. Blizzard has had pics of him for some time now mixed into the screenshots on blizzard's official D3 site. While it is likely that these pics may not be the final rendition of the character, however, it does support the archtype of the "ranger" class. Pics 1 and 5 of the screenshots show what looks like two mercs with swords and shields fighting enemies, while another character stands back a bit from the fight holding a bow. Pic 5 shows this best.
Blizzard would not accidently include art of the unrevealed class. I strongly doubt that what you found is the new "ranger."
The 5th class will not be some kind of healer/priest/cleric since blizzard has mentioned that NO class will have healing abilities. (Making the classes more equal)
It's probably some kind of ranger, alright.
I'm hoping for a "hunter" WITHOUT PETS. I hate pets...
Well, I hope for a trap skill tree and many new ranged weapons:thumbup:
Possible weapons:
Throwing axes/knives etc.
Spears and bows of course
Shurikens
Boomerangs
Blowpipes XD
I also hope for some kind of stealth/lure ability. Those could be used fooling mobs right to your traps and sneaking past enemies while setting up traps :)
btw, melee-wizard is the most exciting build so far!
yo
Cormac McArt
06-09-2009, 19:49
The 5th class will not be some kind of healer/priest/cleric since blizzard has mentioned that NO class will have healing abilities. (Making the classes more equal)
It's probably some kind of ranger, alright.
I'm hoping for a "hunter" WITHOUT PETS. I hate pets...
Well, I hope for a trap skill tree and many new ranged weapons:thumbup:
Possible weapons:
Throwing axes/knives etc.
Spears and bows of course
Shurikens
Boomerangs
Blowpipes XD
I also hope for some kind of stealth/lure ability. Those could be used fooling mobs right to your traps and sneaking past enemies while setting up traps :)
btw, melee-wizard is the most exciting build so far!
yo
Luring Whistle and Fortunatus cap! ^^
It could be Ranger, it can be Archer, or it can be Rogue, Hunter, or Thief.
It will definately be a bow using class, or possibly ranged/melee hybrid like amazon was.
Ofcourse it's gonna be a Amazon/Ranger/Hunter/Bard wichever can hold a bow, i mean they gotta put a ranged lamer with guided arrows for noobs in the game don't they? so everybody can do there stupid little joke again "hunterweapon lOLOLoLOlol" so original...NOT.
I prefer to see a Shadow Element using class. Opinions anyone?
I do not think it will be magic oriented character since there are already two casters and monk which is sort of hybrid.
LegionOfSouls
13-09-2009, 02:46
I seem to remember a while back Bashiok implied that there might be a class reference on Blizzard's D3 site. Thought at the time that might refer to Abd al-Hazir entry on Dune Threshers, where a hunter is refered to.
Not that that means it definitly will be given Bashiok's sence of humour, but still ...
Unregister
13-09-2009, 06:23
Not "no room for doubt". It's "definitely".
It's the only thing that's missing. Unless they do a surprise and put out another Master of None in the mix and reserve it for the expansion thing which I doubt Blizzard would do since they haven't lost their minds (AFAIK) yet.
CCCenturion
13-09-2009, 07:12
I seem to remember a while back Bashiok implied that there might be a class reference on Blizzard's D3 site. Thought at the time that might refer to Abd al-Hazir entry on Dune Threshers, where a hunter is refered to.
Not that that means it definitly will be given Bashiok's sence of humour, but still ...
I forgot about that hunter story, but that definitely sounds like a good possibility, now that you mention it. At any rate, it's a better lead to go on than anything else we have.
By the way, welcome to the forums!
Elric-Logain
15-09-2009, 02:39
But what will they call it? Ranger? Or perhaps go with a compound name like the Dune Ranger? Or will they go for a similar, but more specific, archetype name?
CCCenturion
19-09-2009, 19:01
"Hunter" could work.
And that's a name that implies ranged combat, traps, and stealth, so it could be an interesting mix.
StrikexForce
25-09-2009, 09:27
Its without a doubt going to be a bow using class. Blizzard will of course put their spin on it, but its going to be a bow user primarily.
Bows are far too popular to leave out.
It is without a doubt a ranged user, in the 2008 gameplay video a bow and throwing knives drop, the narrator also stated that gear are made for spesific classes, regardless what they call it and what skill it has it will be ranged
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