Plz help with LLd Fury sin

[bluewiind]

After becoming bored and somewhat disenchanted with regular PvP I would like to try my hand at LLD. I want to try a Blade Fury sin, lev 18. I got Grushed, and have gathered some decent dam jewels (damn they'r expensive, I am going through a lot of my wealth aquired over 6 years). So, i have 29 points available. I have looked around and came up with the following skill distribution and gear (not totally sure on the gear):
1 fire blast
1 blade sentinel
1 wake of fire
1 blade fury
1 shadow warrior
1 weapon block
1 psychic hammer
1 cloak of shadows
18 claw mastery ( since will be using a claw weapon)
3 bos
does that sound about right?

As far as gear (all sockets will have max dam jewels)

Eth 3 soc B Talons, or Eth Malice?
4 soc armor (may have to go with 3 soc)
3 soc helm (or Biggins Bonet?)
3 soc shield or Pelta Lunata?
death gloves and belt (Bloodfists? Clegs?)
Cow King boots?
damage charms
something like that.
So far my biggest problem is finding Eth 3 soc talons. I suppose Eth is a must for this build, right?
Any input will be greatly appreciated. Tnx for reading.

[bluewiind]

Oh, couple more thoughts: as far as ammy and rings, I have no idea at this level. I am not sure abour Angelic and if BF is effected by AR. The only uniques available at this level are Nokozan, The Eye of Etlich, Nagelring, and Manald Heal. Probably some rares with mana and ar mods?

[Ceramic Weasel]

BF is affected by AR, and doesn't receive the AR% from CM, so Angelics would probably be a good idea. But I don't think this will work very well, because lvl 1 BF only does 8-10 base damage. If you're using the above equipment, 40/40 str/dex and everything socketed with 20%ed jewels, you can estimate the damage output to be something like:

Edit: Woops, forgot weapon ed% and got CM wrong.

Weapon Half = (28 * (1 + 0.6 + (60+60+60+103) / 100) * 1.2 + 30) * 0.75 ~= 134
Blade Fury Half = 9 * (1 + 0.6 + (60+60+60+103) / 100) * 1.2 ~= 48

Damage per shuriken = 182.

And that's with the eth B Talons, Cow King boots, lvl 18 CM, etc. I don't know what sort of damage is good in LLD, but that seems low to me.

[bluewiind]

Hmm, tnx CW, she is still lev 1, maybe i should hold off and get more info. Is there a way to get more damage using a different wep/shield combo utilizing lets say OW and CB, ok laugh, like The Gnasher, Clegs sword/Swordback Hold etc? I am no good at crunching these numbers......

[kavlor]

You can certainly get your damage higher than that my 18 sin does 437 max damage(and isn't complete).I think the key to this build is lots of r/w,mana and knockback.You need a vulpine shield of deflecting with 2 sockets.I use Scissors katar for base weapon,Malice is a good choice but the best but expensive choice would be a eth Superior(15%ed) SK with 3*15md/20ed jewels(the missing part of mine).

[bluewiind]

You can certainly get your damage higher than that my 18 sin does 437 max damage(and isn't complete).I think the key to this build is lots of r/w,mana and knockback.You need a vulpine shield of deflecting with 2 sockets.I use Scissors katar for base weapon,Malice is a good choice but the best but expensive choice would be a eth Superior(15%ed) SK with 3*15md/20ed jewels(the missing part of mine).

Tnx Kavlor, could you plz list your skill and gear set-up and tell me about your dueling experience, is she a dedicated lev 18 BF or are you doing other stuff with her?

[Ceramic Weasel]

I seem to have missed 60%ed in my calculations, but +max dmg mods would definitely change things a bit.

You can't get much damage from a low level BF skill, though, so I wouldn't necessarily restrict myself to using a claw. Something heavier or with more sockets could net more damage.

[bluewiind]

I seem to have missed 60%ed in my calculations, but +max dmg mods would definitely change things a bit.

You can't get much damage from a low level BF skill, though, so I wouldn't necessarily restrict myself to using a claw. Something heavier or with more sockets could net more damage.

CW you the man. So lets say, for the sake of argument, one had 12x 20ed/15max jewels in 3 soc helm, armor, shield and claw, what would the damage look like vs , like 4-6 soc sword or scepter with no CM? I am not sure what wep comes to your mind here. What about subtracting some sockets in favor of OW or CB? :scratchhead: so many ways to go.....

[Ceramic Weasel]

Yay, math. I'll try an ethereal 6soc War Axe vs. ethereal 3soc Blade Talon. 60/40 str/dex and shield/helm/armor/boots for both calculations:

War Axe
Weapon Half = ((46 + 112.5) * (1 + 0.6 + (60+60+60) / 100) + 30) * 0.75 ~= 427
Blade Fury Half = 9 * (1 + 0.6 + (60+60+60) / 100) ~= 31
Total = 457

Blade Talon
Weapon Half = ((28 + 90) * (1 + 0.75 + (60+60+60+103) / 100) * 1.2 + 30) * 0.75 ~= 509
Blade Fury Half = 9 * (1 + 0.75 + (60+60+60+103) / 100) * 1.2 ~= 49
Total = 558

Wow, I stand corrected. I guess I underestimated lvl 18 CM. Though, I don't think you can get 20%ed/+15max jewels for lvl 18 req.

[bluewiind]

Yay, math. I'll try an ethereal 6soc War Axe vs. ethereal 3soc Blade Talon. 60/40 str/dex and shield/helm/armor/boots for both calculations:

War Axe
Weapon Half = ((46 + 112.5) * (1 + 0.6 + (60+60+60) / 100) + 30) * 0.75 ~= 427
Blade Fury Half = 9 * (1 + 0.6 + (60+60+60) / 100) ~= 31
Total = 457

Blade Talon
Weapon Half = ((28 + 90) * (1 + 0.75 + (60+60+60+103) / 100) * 1.2 + 30) * 0.75 ~= 509
Blade Fury Half = 9 * (1 + 0.75 + (60+60+60+103) / 100) * 1.2 ~= 49
Total = 558

Wow, I stand corrected. I guess I underestimated lvl 18 CM. Though, I don't think you can get 20%ed/+15max jewels for lvl 18 req.

Thank you mate, (I see your location), yes I have one of these jewels, lev 18. One last (?) calculation: what would the dam be with a non eth Blade Talon, and what do you think of this claw:http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx182/novotny111/Screenshot007.jpg with 2x20/15 in it?

[kavlor]

Thank you mate, (I see your location), yes I have one of these jewels, lev 18. One last (?) calculation: what would the dam be with a non eth Blade Talon, and what do you think of this claw:http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx182/novotny111/Screenshot007.jpg with 2x20/15 in it?

Bad idea, stick to using an eth claw preferabley superior Blade Talon or Scissors Katar.Any ED% will give more damage on an eth weapon(50% more) so 20% is the same as 30% of what you gain on a none eth.By the way those jewels are bugged in armor so only use in weapons.

[crawlingdeadman]

eth is different from straight up ed% (from affixes and skills) though is it not?

[bluewiind]

Yey, I found Eth Blade Talons and Lazaruk put 3 sockets in it, I am on my way. My jewels are comming together, got 2 sockets in a bone shield of deflecting I shopped at Anya so all I need now is a 3 soc mask. Got my feelers out, should have it by tomorrow. Then the hunt for charms starts, sigh...

[Ceramic Weasel]

eth is different from straight up ed% (from affixes and skills) though is it not?Yeah, eth multiplies the base damage, and then the new base damage is multiplied by on-weapon ed%, then that total weapon damage is multiplied by off-weapon ed%.

I'll be interested to see how this character stacks up against more traditional LLD builds, but I can't say I'm very optimistic. Low level BF will naturally do much less than a charging paladin.

[bluewiind]

Kavlor, when you say bugged jewels in the armor what exactly do you mean? The damage is wrong?
CW, I was on LLD forums and people who have these say they are quite effective, KB is the key with CB from CM. Swordback Hold (is that the name?) is a major possibility. I guess KB is much more effective than in high lev dueling due to everyones low def. Hey if she sucks i ll kill all lev 1-4, I WILL BE THEIR NIGHTMARE< RRRRRRR>

[kavlor]

Plain max jewels and plain ed% jewels are ok but if you have ed% and max on same jewel then the ed% only applies to minimum damage and visa versa.

[bluewiind]

So ed% is weird but max dam still applies ok?

[crawlingdeadman]

no, it's the combination of the two in one item that's the problem. i think i have a link in my sig explaining it... used to anyway. just stick to all max in an item or all ed%. the only exceptions are weapons, it works correctly there.

edit: looks like i replaced it w/ something.

[Ceramic Weasel]

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5283820

This'll mess up the equation a bit, depending on what mods are socketed where.

[kavlor]

no, it's the combination of the two in one item that's the problem. i think i have a link in my sig explaining it... used to anyway. just stick to all max in an item or all ed%. the only exceptions are weapons, it works correctly there.

edit: looks like i replaced it w/ something.

I dont know but I think he means does the max still get applied as normal despite the bug.As I see its kinda irrelevant because it would still be a waste as the benefit would be minimal and would only give a tiny tiny bonus as minimum damage is usually very low on LLD.

[bluewiind]

I will post my final build as soon as I am finished getting all the jewels. So far with my damage lower than when she is finished I have killed lev 30 throw barb and lev25 charger. No deaths. KB and slow on Clegs rules, they couldnt get to me. Had CoS on of course. Still looking for Swordback shield, I think OW will override the damage shield (2 soc of deflecting).

[bluewiind]

Ok, as promised, here is my final skill and gear set up:
1 fire blast
1 blade sentinel
1 wake of fire
1 blade fury
1 shadow warrior
1 weapon block
1 psychic hammer
1 cloak of shadows
18 claw mastery
3 bos

3 soc great helm-3x15 max dam (I offset str req w charms)
3 soc breast plate-3x15 max dam
3 sock eth B. talon 3x 20ed/15 max dam
2 soc bone shield of deflecting 2x15 max dam(and Swordback Hold)
Angelic ammy and ring
10 fcr, 5 str, 2 dex, 36 mana, 19 lt res rare ring
Cleg gloves
Cow king boots
Death sash
10x3 max dam charms and asst life and star charms
nothing on switch yet

life 550
BF damage showing- 537

Ceramic Weasel, if you have time can you figure the real damage per shuriken? Unless hit with HF by a pally (which seems to pretty much end all LL duels from what I have seen, lol?) she has done pretty well. I ll keep you posted.

[Ceramic Weasel]

Depends what your STR/DEX are, but due to the low level of BF, your actual damage shouldn't be too much higher than listed.

Weapon: 24-78? (51 avg)
Max Dmg: +150 (75 avg)
Elemental: +25-35 (30 avg)
STR/DEX: 63/40 (0.77 mod)
Mastery: 103%, 20%CS

Weapon Half = (( 51 + 75 )* (1 + 0.77 + (103) / 100) * 1.2 + 30) * 0.75 ~= 340
Blade Fury Half = 9 * (1 + 0.77 + (103) / 100) * 1.2 ~= 30

Total average = 370

I'm guessing the number you listed was max damage. The min/max of the above will work out to 105-634, which includes the 20% CS.

[bluewiind]

Thanks CW, so what do you think overall, are you at all surprized or impressed with this build? Like I said, she is doing real well except when slowed by HF. I have been using Swordback a lot more than the of deflction 2 soc shield since she seems to kill faster with that. I killed 3 jav zons in the same game the other day all mid 20's level, ganged up on me, they whined that I am a special build, etc, blah blah. So far she has been a lot of fun. Peace

[Ceramic Weasel]

Does HF affect the rate of fire of BF?

I'm not too surprised that it works well in LLD. Knockback against low defense opponents with no Enigmas is a pretty nice combo. Might be considered cheap by some, :p but I have very little experience with LLD.

[Sass]

IIR it's stuck at 6 frames regardless. Even still, r/w is big in LLD, so HF kills that.

[kavlor]

Thanks CW, so what do you think overall, are you at all surprized or impressed with this build? Like I said, she is doing real well except when slowed by HF. I have been using Swordback a lot more than the of deflction 2 soc shield since she seems to kill faster with that. I killed 3 jav zons in the same game the other day all mid 20's level, ganged up on me, they whined that I am a special build, etc, blah blah. So far she has been a lot of fun. Peace

Had a good game with a L21 pally he did beat me twice but the last duel he hit me about twice and took my life down to a sliver but then I did what a lot of amazons do fired a few ran,fired a few ran and beat him.I think the important part is judging the time you need to fire and then run before they get in melee range.Im confident that R/W GCs would translate to more damage that I would consider replace life scs with R/W GCs especially with mana.

[bluewiind]

So far my biggest problem has been finding lld games. The ones that say lld always have some lev 80+ in them, as people don’t use the level filter when they make these games. I have made my own games with all kinds of clever names but people rarely come. I have resorted to pk once in a while just from boredom but it’s not really my cup of tea. Where do people lld? In private leagues? This sin may not be legit there, nor would be my new lev 22 slow- freeze- zeal lameadin. lol...