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Technomancer
31-07-2009, 10:17
The Cleric

Background:
After the fall of the Church of Zakarum to Mephisto's dark influence and it's following destruction, followers of the Light around the world were shook to their core. The Paladin that defeated Mephisto became a beacon of incorruptible Light, and the Paladin's of Westmarch made the long trek to Kurast to rebuild Zakarum. The source of Zakarum's corruption and the Paladin's resilience to it was in how they believed the Light should be spread across the world. The Zakarum believed in forcing it upon the world, where the Paladins believed that the role of the Light was to protect and defend Sanctuary, not dominate it. Apparently, the Paladins were right.

The Paladin that defeated Mephisto became High Templar and formed the new Church of Khalimnis, named after the one former Zakarum Priest that could not be turned from the Light. The work was hard and took many years, but Kurast eventually became a beacon of Light once more. Many people flocked the new Church of Khalimnis, including a young man Westmarch who as a child had actually met the High Templar before the Prime Evils emerged 20 years ago. He began training to become a Khalimnic Cleric not even a decade after the Fall of Zakarum. He progressed quickly and the High Templar himself came to hold him in high regard.

The High Templar was a wise and charitable, if solemn, leader. As the rebuilding slowly wound down, the dark cloud that seemed follow him grew darker and darker. His trials against the Prime Evils had not left him unscarred, and his relentless work building the Church of Khalimnis seemed to be the only thing keeping his own demons at bay. 2 years ago, the High Templar left the Church. He left word to the Conclave that he felt a new darkness coming on the horizon and he was leaving to investigate. He has not been heard from since. A member of the Conclave was chosen to act as High Templar in his absense and the new opening in the Conclave was filled by the Cleric that had impressed the High Templar, amongst many others. He felt that it was the responsibility of the Conclave to follow the former leader's lead and begin investigating, but his suggestion was met lukewarmly. Many had began to wonder about the former leader's stability, and dismissed his warning. The new Conclave member and others still believed in him and began keeping an ear to the ground and an eye on the horizon.

One day, they saw the sign they were looking for: A falling star on the western sky. The Cleric that had spoken on behalf of the High Templar packed his things, grabbed his warhammer, and set off to unravel this coming storm...


Skills:
This character is a split caster/melee attacker that draws down the powers of Light upon the forces of Evil. This character can deal a new element of damage: Holy damage. On critical strikes, Holy damage causes the target to be blinded. He can cast direct attack magics, use augmented combat skills, and summon divine spirits to aid in his conquering of the Darkness. Clerics prefer blunt weapons, as wanton bloodshed is not fully in line with their beliefs of protection and benevolence.


Purification tree: These skills are typically spells that focus on Holy and Fire damage. There is also an emphasis on dealing with undead and demons directly. Spells that draw down energy from "above" work even underground, because the power is of other-planar origin.

Tier I:

Holy Bolt: Active. Spell. A familiar spell that has been upgraded to affect all foes, but passives enhance damage to undead/demons. It's altered power has a price though: it no longer heals allies.
Lighting the Darkness: Passive. Increases Light radius.
Fear No Evil: Passive. Decreases the amount of damage taken from demonic and undead foes.
Burning Light: Passive. Increases the damage of all skills in the Purification tree.


Tier II:

Firestorm: Active. Spell. Summons down blaze of fire from the sky that hits all foes within area of effect.
Crystal Shards: Active. Spell. Creates a number of crystals that fly around character. Each shard is charged with power that causes Holy damage upon striking a foe. The Crystals last for xx seconds, damaging any foes they strike.
Soul Wrack: Passive. Increases the damage that Holy damage inflicts on demons and undead.
Cleansed Soul: Passive. decreases the mana cost of all Purification skills.


Tier III:

Motes of Light: Active. Spell. Causes moving beams of Light from above to move around within area of effect, causing Holy damage to any foes hit by them. Lasts xx seconds and area travels with caster.
Exorcism: Active. Spell. When cast, affects a single undead or demonic target instantly, causing severe damage.
Flash: Passive. When attacked, has a chance of retaliating with a blast of Holy power around the character.
Fire in the Sky: Passive. Allows Firestorm to last for a duration, continuing to cause damage. Also increases Fire damage from Sunbeam.
Dominion: Passive. Gives Exorcism the ability to affect an area. The radius grows with Rank.


Tier IV:

Sunbeam: Active. Spell. Creates a beam of intense light originating from caster that causes constant damage to any foes caught in it's way. Lasts as long as button is held down, but cannot be re-aimed without re-casting. Causes half Holy, half Fire damage.
Divine Oppression: Active. Spell. Foes within area of effect are afflicted with the pain and guilt of their past and current sins, decreasing attack speed and accuracy for xx seconds.
Banishment: Passive. Enhances Exorcism, adding a chance of instantly destroying undead or demonic target. Does not work on bosses or super-uniques (using D2 terminology).
Sol Dominae: Passive. Increases the width of the beam produced by Sunbeam and the size of the blast from Flash.
Piercing Light: Passive. Decreases foe's Holy Resistance to character's attacks.



Defender tree: These skills focus on Melee combat and fortitude in defense of the weak. Attacks can be augmented by Divine power. The cleric is reluctant to spill blood and therefore has trained extensively in the use of blunt weapons and is quite proficient in them.

Tier I:

Focused Blow: Active: Melee attack. When mouse button is held down, power is charged and stored until mouse is released. When released, deals an attack on foe that is more powerful depending on how long it was charged. Character will automatically move while mouse is down, so can be charging while seeking out another foe.
Divine Armament: Active. Spell. Enchants weapons, even of allies, to add Holy damage and increase accuracy. Lasts xxx seconds.
Fortitude: Passive. Increases Defense rating and Physical resistance.
Endurance: Passive. Decreases the adverse effects of heavy gear on movement speed and (if applicable) reduce stamina drain from running.
Divine Might: Passive. Increases the damage caused by all skills in the Defender tree.


Tier II:

Weapon Toss: Active. Missile attack. Throws melee weapon at foe which immediately after impact reappears in wielders hand. Deals increased damage, but weapon is gone until hitting a foe or going out of range.
Shield of Righteousness: Active. Spell. Summons a shield of Divine power that either augments an existing shield or creates a disembodied shield that floats near the caster, intercepting attacks as if a shield was in use. It's bonus to a shield is the extent of it's power when used alone. Lasts xxx seconds.
Crushing Mastery: Passive. Increases the attack power and speed of blunt weapons.
Succor: Passive. When attacked, has a small chance of causing the attacker to stop attacking the character for a time, either picking a new target or just standing still. The affect is canceled if the character attacks the affected foe before the duration expires. Doesn't work on bosses or super-uniques.
Fast Focus: Passive. Increases the charge speed of Focused Blow.


Tier III:

Retribution: Active. Melee attack. When hurt, the Cleric can draws on his own life force and will to live to deliver an attack that causes more damage, has higher accuracy, and increased critical hit chance. The power of this attack is increased the more hurt the Cleric is. Critical hits also greatly increase defense.
Draw Fire: Active. Spell. When cast on allies or hirelings, adds a chance that when a foe attacks them, they will re-target the caster instead. The chance increases the lower the targets Health is. Between this and Succor, a foe could wind up quite confused!
Force Shield: Passive. Enhances Shield of Righteousness, increasing it's power without a shield. Has no impact if a real shield is also used.
Redemption: Passive. Adds a chance that if Succor takes affect, the foe will actually start fighting on the characters side for the duration.


Tier IV:

Hammer of Ghrab Thaar: Active. Melee attack. Summon the same Blessed Hammer from D2 to enchant a blunt melee weapon with it's power. It adds Holy damage to attacks. This skill is used per attack.
Flying Hammer: Passive. Augments Hammer of Ghrab Thaar, adding a chance of causing a hammer to spin away from target around caster, making a full rotation, dealing Holy damage to any enemies hit. At the end, it will hit the original foe again, if still in place. Basically a one spin Blessed Hammer that doesn't go outward.
Disruption: Passive. Adds a chance on critical strikes from skills in this tree that undead foes are destroyed outright.
Alacrity: Passive. Increases attack speed. Also increases flight speed of Flying Hammers and Weapon Toss.



Spirit tree: Skills in this tree primarily involve calling heavenly spirits to act as Auras, conferring their affect on the caster (Passives can increase their effect beyond the caster). Spirits last for xxx seconds, depending on skills. Only one spirit can be in affect at a time.

Tier I:

Guardian Spirit: Active. Reduces the chance that hostile conditions can affect the caster, and if they do, decreases their duration.
Warrior Spirit: Active. Increases combat accuracy and the physical damage done by caster.
Piety: Passive. Increases resistance to Arcane magic and adds some absorption of Holy magic as well.
Invoking the Spirit: Passive. Increases the strength of all spirits, even the Guardian Angel.


Tier II:

Burning Spirit: Active. Causes Holy damage to all foes within range.
Restless Spirit: Active. Increases attack speed, movement speed, and flight speed of all projectiles.
Constitution: Passive. Enhances Guardian Spirit, adding resistance to poison and decreasing it's duration when in affect.
Communion: Passive. Decreases the mana cost of Spirit skills.


Tier III:

Avenging Spirit: Active. Increases the elemental (Fire, Ice, Lightning) and Holy damage done by the caster. Will not impact Arcane Damage.
Defending Spirit: Active. Increases defense rating and elemental resistances (Fire, Ice, Lightning) of the caster.
Benevolence: Passive. Enhances Guardian Spirit and Defending Spirit, causing the effects to extend beyond the user. Also adds Health Regeneration to Guardian Spirit.
Hellfire: Passive. Enhances Burning Spirit, adding Fire damage to the aura.


Tier IV:

Guardian Angel: Active. Summons an Angel to fly around and protect the caster. When summoned, whatever Spirit the character has active is passed onto the Guardian Angel, staying active on it until destroyed or re-summoned and determining it's attack style. The Angel will either attack with a bow (no Spirits, Guardian Spirit, Restless Spirit), a sword (Warrior Spirit, Defending Spirit), or Holy Bolts (Burning Spirit, Avenging Spirit). Holy Bolt damage is as if cast by the character. Spirits in affect on the Angel are as if used by the caster, ie. Rank, passives like Malevolence, etc. The Guardian Angel can take damage and be destroyed, but otherwise lasts indefinitely.
Malevolence: Passive. Enhances Warrior Spirit, Restless Spirit, and Avenging Spirit, causing the effects to extend beyond the user.
Infravision: Passive. This skill allows the character to sense the life-forces of foes behind walls and out of vision range. Increasing Ranks increase the vision range.
Enhanced Invocation: Passive. Increases the duration of all spirits.


Notes: I know given the back story that healing spells would be in order, but Blizz has said :nono:. Also, I know some are going to just say "Pally clone". While that's not entirely UNTRUE, this has more focus on spells and the skills are quite different than any Pally skills.

This is probably the last new character I'm going to do, because I'm pretty much out of ideas now for classes I'd be really excited about. Too, the new ladder SHOULD (!!!!!!!) start soon, so I'll be busy with that! That's not to say I won't be updating this and my other classes, though. I'd like to put them up on the wiki too, if they ever get it working again! ;)

theeliminator
01-08-2009, 09:57
I don't want to sound mean but I don't like a lot of your active spells. Here is a list of powers I feel could use some help.

Holy bolt- you should never call any spell useless, you where probly joking but still never call a skill useless. This spell could be cool looking. The cleric trusts his glowing white holy symbol out and the bolt in the same shape flies to its target.

This is one of the big things (I think) D3 will do that D2 didn't, that’s make even lvl one skills useful later on.

Firestorm? don't you mean Flame strike. Not sure why you just don't use the D&D names would give ppl a quicker idea of the spell.

Crystal Shards - No one wants to have to re-activate as spell every 4 sec. You know when you get attacked by a mob that’s how long that spell will last. How about you say it last for x amount of time.

Motes of Light - Not much of a problem just think it should be a higher tier power.

Sunbeam shouldn't that be Sunray? I think the biggest problem with this spell is it’s a carbon copy of Disintegrate.

Weapon Toss? why not just call it Spiritual Hammer. Make it so the hammer just floats next to the Cleric after its been cast and every time after you use the spell the Cleric, grabs the floating hammer and throws the it.

This idea would add a bit more of a theme to the tree, that he conjures all these weapons

Shield of Righteousness could have a passive ability that adds resistances to magic, or just add that into the power itself.

Retribution - The name sounds ten times cooler then the spells description lol.

I only have one major problem with the Spirit tree, there is not one attack spell that isn't an aura. I don't think anyone will want put more than a few points in the tree, because of the lack of attack spells.

Hey if Blizz stole ideas for the Wiz from D&D don't be afraid to do so as well.

Here are a few spells that you might want to fit in.

All spells that have "fire" in the name aren't really fire its just holy fire white and gold flames. These "fire" spells do holy damage.

Turn Undead- like the most well known cleric power. works like fear but only on undead, more points in the power gives the Cleric a greater chance to outright destroy the turned undead.

Flame Blade - Cleric can cast this spell on party members adding holy damage to any attack. last for x amount of time.

Heat Metal - Only works on targets that wear metal. It burns the target for x amount of time.

Hold (person/monster) - With only one word from the lips of the Cleric can he hold a target in its place unable to move or attack for x amount of time. If the Cleric attacks the target they are no longer held in place.

Silence - No spells or powers even the Cleric's can be used for x amount of time.

Spell Immunity - for X amount of time the Cleric is immune to low lvl spells.

Blade Barrier - An immobile, vertical curtain of whirling blades shaped of pure force springs into existence. Any creature passing through the wall takes damage.

just to name a few

Technomancer
01-08-2009, 10:46
Whew, back into the fray! ;)

Holy Bolt - I know, I was just joking around. In D2, it really was useless, but I was hoping this one would be useful.
Firestorm: I suppose I could go totally D&D, but I wasn't sure. Too, I haven't played in so long, I thought it WAS Firestorm lol!
Crystal Shards - That might not be a bad idea. That was one of the last skills I thought of.
Motes of Light - Well, tier 3 is pretty high!
Sunbeam - I wasn't even thinking D&D on this one, but I now realize it is there. Disintegrate is a single target spell that hits and follows one enemy. This one is more of an area of effect spell. It could be changed to where the movement of the beam is fairly slow, so if trained on an enemy moving across, it might not stay on them completely.
BTW, fun fact - Disintegrate is nothing like the D&D spell. At all. ;)
Weapon Toss - That is basically what I was going after, but I wanted to be somewhat original about it. That approach would just be a Blessed Hammer that goes straight instead spiraling, though.
Shield of Righteousness - There's already a passive that raises magic res (Piety), but I do see your point.
Retribution - Hmm, well, you attack more ferociously the more hurt you are, I can't think of a much better name. Does it need to be described differently/better?
Spirit Tree - Well that's like saying no one would invest any points in Pally Auras in D2. Besides, Guardian Angel could be considered a badass attack skill, at least by me. It'd be like a flying Valk, but better and more versatile!

I thought about "fire doing holy damage" thing, but I wanted some versatility. If I did that, the only damage types this guy would do are Holy and Physical

Blizz really only stole a couple of ideas from D&D spells, and like I said, Disintegrate is in name only.

Turn Undead - That's sort of what I was getting at with Exorcism/Banishment and Disruption (ala 'Mace of Disruption'). Maybe could add another passive that would make Exorcism AoE...
Flame Blade - That might not be a bad idea, basically a Holy based Enchant. I think the name would be deceptive though.
Heat Metal - Too limited application. Most monsters don't wear metal stuff.
Hold - That's effectively what Holy Crits do with adding Blindness, I think it compliments Arcane Crits causing Silence.
Silence - Arcane magic seems to already have that covered pretty well.
Spell Immunity - I'm not really sure how that could work for PvM. Maybe the D3 game mechanics could make that useful, but I don't know.
Blade Barrier - I think that's what I was trying to get at with Crystal Shards, but kinda failed. With that skill, I suppose I could go with "lasts x seconds", or I could add a passive that allows each shard to hit multiple times before shattering. Actually I just re-read your Blade Barrier suggestion, and that's not what you were getting at. A skill like that would be similar to Wall of Zombies or Firewall i suppose.

LaZeR
01-08-2009, 13:40
Well, that is some excellent work. Seriously, well written, organized.

There are only 8 things I have to say (for now):
1. Real good work on the Auras Tree. I was afraid it might turn up like D2 where some of the Auras were useless, but yours are well designed so you can use all of them in different situations.
2. Crystal Shards- I actually really like this skill. It's exactly like Bone Armor, but seems it could have a real cool animation.
3. Weapon Toss- I've been working on that kind of skill too. How about the weapon WON'T turn in your hand, but rather lay on the ground where it struck? You'll get a huge damage bonus, but will have to recover your wep. I was thinking about this skills for the Rogue originally (which I think fits better).
4. Yeah, Sunbeam sounds EXACTLY like Disintegrate.
5. Guardian Angel- LOL, ofc will have an Angel spell. It sounds cool, but a bit TOO Angelic for my taste.
6. I don't get Motes of Light =S
7. I LOVE what you did with Hammer of Ghrab Thaar, a.k.a Blessed Hammer (:
8. Firestorm sounds but more like a WD spell. But whateverrrr...

The only, and main, thing I'm missing is a super unique skills. I LOVED Hammer of Ghrab Thaar, but besides that, I hoped to see more new and exciting skills.

theeliminator
01-08-2009, 18:03
There is a Firestorm spell but it doesn't act like the spell you described. The spell you described is Flame Strike.

Sorry about the Motes of Light, I was thinking of a 7 tier skill tree for a sec. That is why I thought it was on too low of a tier.

Tech Disintegrate is just like your sunbeam. You hold the button down and the spell doesn't stop till you are out of mana or let go. It can be used on more than one target. Watch the vid on the D3 (http://www.diablo3.com) site and you will see.

About Retribution, I just think you need a better description. As it stands, it just sounds so bland.

As far as the Spirit tree goes, what I meant was, if you can only have one spirit on at a time all your going to be doing is clicking on a basic attack. I feel that would get boring real fast. Also why don't you let them have one Offensive spirit on as well as having one Defensive spirit on at the same time?

For Flame blade you could call it Holy Blade or Holy Flame Blade.

I think there will be a lot of mobs that use a Metal weapon or armor.

Technomancer
02-08-2009, 08:42
First off, you guys are right, Sunbeam is Disintigrate. It's funny cause that's actually the second version of the skill. With the first version, you couldn't change it's direction once cast, you had to re-cast it to re-target it. I think I'll change it back to that, should make it different enough with it also being AoE.

@Lazer:
1, 2, and 7. Thanks! :)
3. I thought it would be too debilitating to lose your weapon and have to go get it. Too, this way, it gets some of the D&D Spiritual Hammer action Eliminator was talking about. ;)
5. Yeah, it's a specialized one. I thought a character could use a good/great Summon! I like it.
6. Think of Motes of Light as something like the Druid's Armageddon: It's almost more of an Aura that follows you, but only that enemies hit by beams of light take damage. Think of the light beams in the Den of Evil when you clear it. Now imagine those light beams moving around. Now imagine a field of those that follows you around and smites unclean, evil noobs that annoy you! :)
8. Argh!! I warned you!! :D

@TheEliminator:
- Disregarding D&D spells, I think Firestorm really describes the spell better.
- I'll try to Update the Retribution description.
- For the Spirit Tree, why would you just be doing basic attacks? Summon, say, Avenging Spirit, and start throwing Holy Bolts or Sunbeams. Or, Summon Warrior Spirit, cast Shield of Righteousness, then wade into battle with Hammer of Graab Thaar. Having a Defensive and Offensive one active at the same time may be doable, but would that be a little overpowering?
- I think I'll add a Holy Blade type skill. That's a good idea.
- I'm still just not really feeling the Heat Metal thing, though...


Update list:

Purification:
Gave Holy Bolt some more dignity. ;)
Changed Crystal Shards to last for xx seconds.
Changed Sunbeam, as above.
Added a passive, Dominion (Tier III), making Exorcism AoE.

Defender:
Added a spell, Divine Armament(Tier I), that enchants weapons with Holy damage and increases accuracy.
Changed Crushing Mastery to increase attack speed instead of accuracy, since that was redundant.
Removed Divine Focus (Tier III) that added Holy damage to Focused Blow and Retribution.
Updated description for Retribution.

theeliminator
02-08-2009, 10:59
From what blizz has shown us, it looks like you will want to spend all your points in one tree. Maybe you will get a power here and there from other trees but for the most part you will stay with one. (spreading your points around in 3 trees will make you weak over all)
Look at it point wise, most trees have about 18 skills. Each skill can have at least 5 points put into them. That’s 90 points right there. We do know that some skills will go higher than 5 points. The way the Spirit tree is now, you will only want to a power here and there to buff your other builds, but no reason to get all the powers and really dedicate yourself to the tree.

Two ways to make the tree more appealing would be to add an attack spell or two. The other is in the last tier you give them a passive skill that lets them have a Defensive and Offensive power going at the same time. I don’t think it would make them overpowered at all if you did.

theeliminator
03-08-2009, 02:33
also wanted to say i like the changes so far

GuardianHadriel
03-08-2009, 03:33
The history sounds awsome but if the High Templar Paladin left i think he should return to you later in the game, i wish to see my best friend once agian, 20 years later.

Technomancer
03-08-2009, 05:44
@eliminator: Really? I'm under the impression they wanted people to spread things around the 3 different trees. If I'm not mistaken, that's why they're planning on mashing the trees together a little bit, to make it easier to get into skills from various trees.

I think 2 Spirits could be managed. Maybe just have it to where you can have 2 active at once, regardless of defensive or offensive use. A passive required to do that may help out too. I'm not sure how best to implement all that yet. How about this: The Guardian Angel, doesn't have Guardian Spirit active, he has whatever Spirit was active when you summoned him. Then, you can also summon whatever Spirit you want and they'd both be active. You could summon different Spirits and it wouldn't change the GA's Spirit unless you re-summoned him. It would be sort of like making an Iron Golem out of Insight, but you obviously don't lose anything.

?

@GuardianHadriel: That's half the reason I put him in the history!! I'd love to see that too. The Paladin was always my favorite character.

theeliminator
03-08-2009, 08:49
Yeah they are making it so you can look at all the trees at the same time but it's just a convenience. Some ppl will go crazy and buy all the power they can get, but they will be underpowered. I am not saying you’re just going to spend all your skill points in one tree but your most likely going spend a lot in one.

That all said, I was thinking of a passive skill where the first lvl of the skill lets you use both of tier one Spirits, next lvl gives you the ability to use both of tier two Spirits, so on and so forth till the last lvl gives you the ability to use any two Spirits in any combination.

Your Idea is interesting. Something about it doesn't feel right. Maybe if the type of Guardian Angel you summon is dependent on what kind of Spirit you had active before you summoned him. Hear me out on this one, if you have a defensive Spirit the Guardian will be more defensive focused. If you have a offensive in use the Guardian will be offensive focused, maybe give them different powers. It would be like making two spells in one.

LaZeR
03-08-2009, 13:16
Why this obssesion for having 2 Auras?
You're thinking in D2 terms, where you had no real challange Online with dupes and rushes. In D3, however, which is geared toward having a real difficulty completing the game and encourge us to play with a team, different Auras for different situations will be great.
And most of all- You can respec them when you're high lvl and don't need them no more!

theeliminator
03-08-2009, 18:09
Why this obssesion for having 2 Auras?
You're thinking in D2 terms, where you had no real challange Online with dupes and rushes. In D3, however, which is geared toward having a real difficulty completing the game and encourge us to play with a team, different Auras for different situations will be great.
And most of all- You can respec them when you're high lvl and don't need them no more!

Just because he has two auras doesn't mean the game will be easy. I don't know about you but D2 has its challenging parts. Lastly I truly doubt that Tech wants to make a tree where once you reach high lvl you have to respec cause your skills are useless. Every power should be usefull through the entire game. Not meaning you will have to use all your skills in the same fight but you will get to use all of them through the course of each chapter.

LaZeR
03-08-2009, 18:44
My point exactly.

Auras WILL be used through the entire game. Changing them according to what enemies you're fighting.

I'm just saying if D3 is like D2, which you reach high level and all you care about is more damage- not defense or tactics, you can easily respec your Defending Spirit to a Burning Spirit.
Like you will you with every other char in that case- A WD will probably respec his low-level-usefull Horify to some damage increasing Passives when he reaches high level.

Technomancer
04-08-2009, 02:55
I honestly have wondered about running 2 auras, since they could compliment each other very well, like Warrior Spirit with Restless Spirit/Defending Spirit, or Burning Spirit with Avenging Spirit. I'm kinda liking my GA Spirit idea...

theeliminator
04-08-2009, 03:30
My point exactly.

Auras WILL be used through the entire game. Changing them according to what enemies you're fighting.

I'm just saying if D3 is like D2, which you reach high level and all you care about is more damage- not defense or tactics, you can easily respec your Defending Spirit to a Burning Spirit.
Like you will you with every other char in that case- A WD will probably respec his low-level-usefull Horify to some damage increasing Passives when he reaches high level.

How did I make your point? You say D3 will not be like D2 then turn right around and say it will be.

I think your first point was better, D3 will not be like D2. D3 will make better use of skills. You will need the defensive spells in the later part of the game so you don't die.

LaZeR
04-08-2009, 12:41
I'm a complicated guy (:

I say D3 WON'T be like D2 since I belive without duping and Blizz endless attempts to encourge us to play throught the whole game, without rushing, will force us to use variety of skills, and not max 1 attack and synergies while you're being rushed and Baalrunning, like D2.

On the other hand, I find it hard to belive the high level chars that have finished the game, will need defensive/1st Tier attack- No matter how Blizz want us to have- and exactly LIKE D2. In the end, high level chars will search for doing the most damage- and nothing else, exactly like D2 (I just don't see a way this WON'T happen). That's why I said it's good that we have respec- The power hungry chars won't be afraid to use those defensive skills in early stages of them games from the fear the won't be the GOZUiest when they reach lvl 90+.


Hope I made my point clear. I tend not to S=

theeliminator
04-08-2009, 20:17
But that’s all speculation; blizzard could make D3 hard enough that without using defensive skills you'll die fast. I just feel that if they make D3 exactly like D2 there is no reason to ever take the defensive skills at all.

There may be a middle ground here; maybe some classes don't need defensive skills. It just might be characters able to wear heavy armor they can focus more on damage and less on defense. On the other hand characters that have light armor need the defensive skills to keep them alive.

EG. A 90th lvl WD fights a 90th lvl Barb. The WD has to use Horrify to keep the barb away. If he doesn’t he dies in 3 hits.

We do know that the Barb does have defensive skill though, heck as far as we have seen all classes have defensive skills. So what would be the point of having these skills if no one will use them? What for? Did they make them just to fill up space or because they couldn’t come up with better attack spells?

This is something I feel very strongly about, Blizzard NEEDS to make all of their spells useful throughout the entire game.

LaZeR
04-08-2009, 21:45
. I just feel that if they make D3 exactly like D2 there is no reason to ever take the defensive skills at all.



This is something I feel very strongly about, Blizzard NEEDS to make all of their spells useful throughout the entire game.

I tried to comment on this a couple of times and found out that I'm loosing myself with a long argument.

So I'll try to make it a short as possible:
Defensive skills WILL be usefull throught the game as they were usefull, and not useless, in D2 for 2 reasons:
1. Respecs.
Why didn't you put points in Resist Fire when you desperatly needed it? Because you were afraid in higher levels your damage will be slightly lower, and thus, less GOZZUier. That saying: Defensive skills weren't useless, they were left out because of power hunger. With D3 respec, you won't have to fear for those 100 more damage, and start using the defensive skills you NEED.

2. Rushes & Dupes
D2 was a hard game. Try untwink, or HC and you'll see. If you leave Dupes and Rushing&Baalrunning aside- It's very hard to complete the game with your avarage "all damage not defensive skills" build. And D3 is trying to solve this:
* Battlenet 2.0 will hopefully get rid of dupes.
* Blizzard is strongly encourge us to clear whole levels instead of rushing to the main boss. And clearing a whole level will probably require some defensive skills as well.

And this is why Defensive skills will be useful in D3.



P.S- Horrify will probably won't work on players..

theeliminator
05-08-2009, 07:41
So you’re agreeing with me. About time you saw the light. lol

I know your just giving an example, but there is no resist fire talent and I don't think they will make a passive skill to just resist one type of magic.

We don’t know how you will respec or if the Respec will cost gold or xp. Blizzard might take a page from Titan quest and let you unlearn skills at a price (in gold) the higher the skill the more they cost.

Finally was there any power in D2 that didn’t work on a player? Why do you think Horrify won’t?

Technomancer
05-08-2009, 09:21
For the record, I don't know what either of you are talking about! ;) I don't think skills have to be usable forever, but I think it's nice to try.

There were powers in D2 that didn't affect other players like Grim Ward, Conversion, Attract, and Confuse.

Technomancer
08-08-2009, 10:11
Well, I went ahead with the "Guardian Angel gets your Spirit" idea and made a couple other changes:

Purification tree:
Added Piercing Light to lower enemy's Holy resistance, Tier IV.

Spirit Tree:
Updated Guardian Angel to inherit the caster's active Spirit.
Added Health regeneration to Guardian Spirit in Benevolence.
Added Restless Spirit to be affected by Malevolence, correcting an original oversight.