Respecs: Different Analysis in HC?

[5zigen]

I don't remember the post bashiok made, but one of them made a specific reference to respecs (though it didn't mention how they would work at all.)

The question or proposition I am considering is how the existence of respecs would or should be viewed in light of HC.

I don't think there's been a discussion centered around this subject in this forum, so I hope it isn't a double topic.

I don't want this to be a general respec discussion, but I will say that respecs do provide some upsides and downsides, and their ultimate value really depends on how the rest of the game and character progression has been developed. Some games would not survive without them (WoW).

Anyhow, for a long time and particularly in HGL I was very happy with the decision to exclude respecs, particularly because of how it affected or the implications it had in HC which I saw as bigger than in SC. One of the main things was, that in HC one of the "Rewards" as I saw it, was the "status", that comes from being able to show off your character, sort of as a "I play this kind of character to level XX." Now I know this doesn't need to be the case to say this (you can always level anyway you want and say anything you want.)

Respecs, however, invalidate the low level experience to some extent. Which means that the symbol of accomplishment for leveling a particularly difficult build (that may start out weak and become strong, for example) is diminished or removed. Now, I will also accept the fact that it is also diminished or removed in D2 as it is now and has been for a while with things like rushing. (and I also would like to note that you could still have some "status" by leveling a sub optimal build in WoW, a game with respecs.)

The other thing is that HC is somewhat the symbolic idea of the "consequences" mode. In line with this focus on consequences, should character development choices also have these tangible and permanent consequences? I think it could be argued that the idea of consequences is part of the HC experience.

Is this a compelling reasoning to treat respecs differently in HC or SC?
Do you think Respecs should be treated differently in HC than in SC?
Do you think respecs have any good or bad foreshadowing for the HC experience?

Just in full disclosure, I don't think it's particularly good reasoning.

Also, one of the things I associate respecs with is it taking very long to develop a character (it seems like a long development time for a character is a very compelling reason to include respecs at least). If it takes an incredibly long time to level a character, does that have any impact on the hardcore experience, good or bad? (this is what I was getting at in question 3.)

[Runestar]

Respecs, however, invalidate the low level experience to some extent. Which means that the symbol of accomplishment for leveling a particularly difficult build (that may start out weak and become strong, for example) is diminished or removed.

Personally, I have never liked this sort of build, where you started out weak, and had to tough it out for a period of time just to finally reach that sweet spot where you really started to shine. This just makes early gameplay seem like a chore, when it should be fun (why else would you play a computer game?), which in turn would encourage people to find ways of speeding up or even skipping it (hence the rushing/leeching issues plaguing D2 today).

Or the reverse, where you may play a build that starts out strong, but rapidly loses its effectiveness and starts falling behind. You may not be able to enjoy all that the game has to offer when you routinely get your behind handed to you on a platter because your build now sucks and you can't do anything about it.

I would like my character to be equally viable at each and every lv, and I think the ability the respec would really go a long way towards making this possible, since you can funnel your skill points towards whichever is most effective at any one time.

Though I think that respeccing will probably be limited in some fashion (right now, I am leaning towards the "respec only 1 skill point/lv" theory). This still gives you 2 skill points to play with every lv. Players will be able to gradually shift the focus of their builds, but not switch them dramatically overnight (to prevent sanity, if anything else).

[MoUsE_WiZ]

I'm pretty indifferent towards everything to do with respecs.

I would like to see some sort of achievement or stat associated with their use though.

[Edairu]

Now that you bring it up, I think it would be a terrific idea to exclude Re-specs entirely in Hardcore. It goes along very well with the theme of "One mistake could cost you your life." And it also provides a place for players who are truly against Re-specs to go and participate in the true Diablo experience...

I was a heavy HC player in Diablo II, mostly because a couple of my friends loved it. I had a level 87(?) Bone Necro with Torch/Anni and all the rest, after he died, I really didn't want anything to do with HC and ended quitting D2 for a while. But if Hardcore mode came back with a little more spice and zero Re-specs then I would definitely consider coming back to it.

I still believe that Re-specs should be available in SC though.

[TheDarkSide]

Im not a huge fan of Respecs really. I didnt play WOW long enough to get a feel for them and I dont recall any game Iv'e played having them in it. Iv'e played D2 since the 1st week it was on the shelves and HC exclusively. When I make a character I plan it out well in advance. Im the type that plays the game from act 1 norm to act 5 hell and gets all quests and all Wps along the way and having a few exta points in Str or Dex isnt a biggy for me. If I level a character to 80 and find it worthless or boring , I hit the Delete button and start over - Respecs are not needed for me ..


:yes:

[SEANBCOOL]

I don't really like the idea of respecs for Diablo. I think it's necessary for WoW, because levelling a character takes so much time and effort. In Diablo, though, you just start over and it can be irritating but not a huge deal.

In fact, I think respecing in Diablo would make the game too boring too quickly. You would be done after 5 characters.

[Warnoxx]

Respecs are only viable in WoW because so much is changed with the classes throughout patches and expansions. Diablo II made bugger all changes to the classes from when u first bought the game so the need for respecs wasn't viable. If Diablo III is anything like Diablo II then respecs will not be necessary in either SC or HC.

[Darkflight]

Respecs are only viable in WoW because so much is changed with the classes throughout patches and expansions. Diablo II made bugger all changes to the classes from when u first bought the game so the need for respecs wasn't viable. If Diablo III is anything like Diablo II then respecs will not be necessary in either SC or HC.

Obviously you haven't experienced the 1.09 to 1.10 shift. The changes made then to character skills in Diablo 2 was waaay bigger then the changes they made to WOW talent trees.

[BigVF]

I sometimes think fellow Hardcore players blow things out of preportion and dont' remember what HC is. HC at it's core will always be trying to survive while playing within the game mechanics. The only thing that seperated the HC and SC modes were the death factor (a big factor at that). If the normal softcore mode is going to have respecs why would you want to bar yourself from it? Changing more things about the HC mode would almost be like taking it to an elitist level. Perhaps you should look at how respecs will impact the SC aka normal game.

If anything I believe it will be a far more valuable tool in HC than in SC. Also considering the fact we know nothing about the rate we can change or the difficulty it will take to unlock the ability, I think it's really hard to begin to look at it in a negative manner.

If the majority of people who post here plan on purchasing D3 on or around it's release, they'll probably be thankful respecs are in the game one, two, three years plus down the line.

"No respecs" will be kept to some sort of Ironman rule, and will be extremely fun in that enviorment, but I just don't see it negatively impacting Hardcore mode.

[KingOfKings]

it is good, but at some cost perhaps? loss of lvl or xperience? that would make more sense, than spam respeccing all the time?

also respecs arent rly needed at a point, since the new ladders do away with playing an old char.

i always found it fun and a challenge if i was ever bored, to play an old ladder spec on a new patch :)