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Scudstorm
19-07-2009, 06:40
If it ain't broke, why fix it?

The thing is, while our guides are not broke, they are sometimes misleading to newcomers. Here are a few examples:

In the Sorc forum, all the regulars know for a fact that full Tal's is the best darn setup possible for many builds, especially since Zroc's famous The Truth about Tal's Set (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151250). Similarly, in the Sin forum, all the regulars know that Stormlash > LW on a Kicker. And let's not forget that the max speed on Strafe follow-up is 3 fpa!

However, the stickied guides are either slightly outdated or the guide writer did not edit the guide after the community's findings, so a lot of them do not reflect these facts.

A lot of people will merely read these guides, and follow them to the letter. Since not all of them will post questions, there will be no one to point them in the right direction.

Can we do something to solve this? :scratchchin:

I'm thinking in the lines of:

- Adding a link to the aforementioned thread - and any other relevant threads - on the top of the matching guides (e.g. where Tal's should be mentioned as best/one of the best setup but is not), with a brief note explaining why;

- Gathering up a team of guide writers and do new versions of the old guides (especially after 1.13 comes out, if it changes a lot), making the guides more organized and giving credits where they're due of course;

- Making "how to build..." or "101" guides (one per class forum or one per build type) which have links to the existing build guides, these should be the work of the community (i.e. can be updated anytime by the moderator in charge to reflect new discoveries such as the Blade Fury one) and should point out all things that have changed since the build guides were written.

Now, these ideas need refining and can represent a lot of work. We could take volunteers and pick up a suitable rhythm. Tell me what you guys/gals think :D

Are
20-07-2009, 04:04
It seems like a good idea to me; many guides are from just after 1.10 was released, and I imagine a lot of stuff has been discovered since those days. Although it would be a LOT of work for those undertaking this task :)

stephan
20-07-2009, 11:07
- Adding a link to the aforementioned thread - and any other relevant threads - on the top of the matching guides (e.g. where Tal's should be mentioned as best/one of the best setup but is not), with a brief note explaining why;
IMO a guide should first and foremost express the views of the writer and not the consensus of (part of) the community. At best you can add version tags to guides written for older patches. The danger zone you are entering is that 'this works best' is not always the whole story of a guide. Gear and skill decisions can be made because of other reasons.

Hrus
20-07-2009, 13:19
I think that the guide is something that only author can modify. (Or a moderator with the author's permission).
I don't care about someone suggesting Full Tals instead of Partial Tals (or vice versa). What is worse is a real mistake in mechanics of the guide. Like 2fpa strafe or 2fpa bearsin.
IMHO the moderator of the forum, where the guide with a basic error like that originated, should ask the author to review the problem and release the new version or update of the guide.

Scudstorm
20-07-2009, 17:33
IMO a guide should first and foremost express the views of the writer and not the consensus of (part of) the community. At best you can add version tags to guides written for older patches. The danger zone you are entering is that 'this works best' is not always the whole story of a guide. Gear and skill decisions can be made because of other reasons.

I'm with you on this. That's why I've made the third suggestion so that we can have "public domain" guides that wouldn't have this issue: the participating members would be aware that their work is done in the name of the community and thus may be modified.

A guide writer's intellectual property shall be respected. My point is, when the guides are linked in a stickied thread for quick access to newcomers, we shall do our best to insure that they will accomplish their task (i.e. informing the reader) flawlessly.

Now, how to do this without modifying the existing guides is the tricky part. My first suggestion leaves the guide mostly intact, but apparently it's already too much. So do you guys think that the other two could work/be realistic options? Any other suggestions?

NASE
20-07-2009, 18:04
Something just struck me. Isn't this what a wiki is all about? And for some builds as frequent and often made as meteorbs/blizzballers, this might be an interesting option. Atleast as a starting place to help newbies find their way.

stephan
20-07-2009, 22:46
For common builds you could make 'community'-guides on the wiki I guess. I know don't if there is reserved space for it though and if anyone is willing to write any of it. I'd be willing to help on some.

Right now it seems the whole wiki is down anyway.

MarShenk
21-07-2009, 20:49
Is this is the process of happening? I tried to access some of the Amazon guides several times but the links seem to be down?

NASE
21-07-2009, 22:25
the guides link to the diabloii.net domain that seem to be abandoned (or atleast down for the moment).

Scudstorm
22-07-2009, 03:05
A wiki's greatest asset is also its greatest flaw: it can be edited by anyone. This means that, while modifications can be quickly made without any paperwork, a wiki will never be a "safe" source of reference. It also requires some monitoring regarding vandalism, which a thread in a forum would not need.

NASE
22-07-2009, 08:17
Can't they create groups on the wiki? And only give that group access to modify certain pages.

That solve the problem and is something that can't be done on a forum IIRC, or you have to create a separate forum for it.

stephan
23-07-2009, 11:48
I'm not overly concernced by vandalism or edit wars. My experience with most wikis is that these things seldom happen.

Creating groups gives the same problem as forum threads, only to a lesser extent.

Elly
17-08-2009, 03:26
All wiki updates are monitored by various admins, so every day one or more of us looks over the list of updates and checks any by new people. Once you become a regular updater then you're pretty much trusted. For example I don't check Vipermagi's (http://www.diablowiki.net/User:Vipermagi) updates because he been doing it for long enough.

So no one updates a guide without it being checked afterwards, unless it's the author.

I do accept that some prefer to have their guides in the forums though.

One option is to put it in the forum for feedback and input, refine it then archive it in diablowiki (http://www.diablowiki.net) after.