Blade Fury Analysis

[Sass]

No, it doesn't use durability. None of the kicks do.

[SeCKSEgai]

i have a feeling you have never acctually pvped with a bf sin, its hard, and most the time you die, but when yer lucky you can create worlds of pain on any class


That almost made me LoL. BF and Pvp really don't go together unless your competition is... just plain terrible.

Talk about humiliation.

Of course, PvM wise, its a different story ;)

[Sass]

I'll just say it's surprising how it does. It isn't completely reliable, but great for occasional kills for fun.

To do it though, you have to be very, very specialized.

[SeCKSEgai]

I don't count zons since the D/A/E tends to screw them over, but for every other class, they should be teleporting around. The time it takes for her to get into "throwing/spitting" position alone allows plenty of reaction time for opponents, then the delay, set rate of fire and predictability......

But for a humiliation kill, it definitely rubs it in.

[Sass]

>>


<<


Tienje killed my Ghost with one.

[SeCKSEgai]

Ouch - but then again... it is Tienje, not like he's unfamiliar with an assassin or anything =)

[FalconPunch]

What weapon would everyone suggest for a Sin using Blade shield (-durability). Last wish PB?

[Sass]

Fury Suwayyah.

[fledgeling]

Sorry for thread necromancy, but some very interesting things have been discussed here, but I diddnt find an answer for something that came immediately to my mind as a proposed (but not tested) solution for the damage/AR problem.
In general it was proposed that the sin uses a fury claw; while the might merc holds infinity.
What about a different option - the sin uses last wish (might); while the merc is using the AR aura + pride (concentraiton). I know that the merc will have a pretty low killing speed (maybe investing in a 2nd fortitude would help him a bit), but I wonder if he would survive thanks to the ridiculous life tap on last wish?
Does the AR aura offset the missing reduced defense from infinity? (I dont mention the fact that we lose the raw power of infinity on merc).

Although such a setup makes this "build" cost a lot more.

[Sass]

So what would be my weapon of choice? At this stage, I'd have to say Fury Suwayyah.

... huh?

Allow me to explain. Last Wish is only effective because of its Might aura, but we can get a much higher Might aura from a mercenary. Given what we now know about the BF damage equation, it would be silly not to take advantage of that. Death and Chaos are both great, but they lack ITD which is a real pain. You could get a Blessed Aim merc, but then you'd lose Might. You can equip your merc with an Infinity (I highly recommend this for bosses and champs anyway) and exploit the hell out of that -83% defense, but Conviction's radius isn't enough to cover the whole screen, so you're limited to attacking whatever group of monsters your merc decides to attack.

With Fury I'm not relying on my mercenary all the time, I don't have to worry about getting a crappy damage roll since Fury's %ed is fixed, and I can make it in a claw with a +3 Blade Fury staffmod. It's also a very appropriately named runeword.
From his weapon analysis.

[fledgeling]

That does not answer my question at all.

[Sass]

It says LW is good, but not as good as Fury.



The merc can certainly survive with life tap, but he shouldn't have trouble staying alive vs most monsters (bosses excluded).



I don't know exact figures, but it's probably roughly the same in terms of AR.

[Noite Escura]

Necromancy time again, wouldn't Famine be a better option than Fury? I lacks the 33% DS, but has higher %ED , higher LL, can be made on a higher base dmg weapon, and useful elemental dmg.

[Sass]

No. Claws are needed to hit the highest damage.

[Ghoulz]

No. Claws are needed to hit the highest damage.

Yup, my Edeathz has double the damage of my Efury scissors, yet they seem to do the exact same damage.

I have no idea why claw mastery has such a big impact, or Bfury gets some damage buff when used with claws or something.

[Sass]

The + damage from the skill is boosted by CM, and you have the added DS from it. You lose the mastery when using axes, swords, etc.

[Ghoulz]

How would 100% damage from claw mastery calculate from BF that does, say 150 max?

[Sass]

That +~150 is multiplied by all ED%. You add CM's ED% to the rest of off-gear ED%. CM gets up to about 130% at roughly the level BF gets 150.


Other sources like fort, might aura, etc make the 130 seem small, but it'll be a huge impact if it's between CM's ED and not.

[tokioreaper]

Here's my retake on this build using a high end setup as possible on bnet. This char resides on HCL East and I use it for PVM only. I cant attest to the build for pvp, but with pvm she's a incredible machine. Monsters just melt and then DS does the rest.

screenie of my shecksi lady ;
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/Master_Zappy/Screenshot492.jpg

She's packing 100% crushing blow (every blade !) , 93% deadly strike with a little bit of OW and Venom sprinkled in.

To solve ar issues and to up my DS damage I simly went with an infinnity (might)merc. -83% enemy defense while already having decent ar leaves me with what feels like ~90/95% chance to hit. These blades seem to always connect.

Skillset (bunch of free points)
20 Blade Fury
20 Venom
20 Death Sentry
20 Shadow Master
4 kick dtalon with items (pretty much just use on end bosses)
1 in cos, blade shield, dflight and other pre reqs
runs Fade as her aura.



Hat: Gface w/ 40%ed 15 ias jewel
Armor: Fort Boneweave
shield: Lanceguard with 40% ed jewel
Wep; Death BA
belt; Tgods
boots: Gores
gloves: Trangs (boosts venom damage)
ammy; Metalgrid (lots of ar, hunk-o-res)
ring1; ravenfrost
ring2 ; Dwarfstar
switch shield; Spirit monarch
switch wep; CTA military pick

Merc; nm offensive
Andy's hat
Treachery
Infinnity eth CA

charms; Random life/ar ones. Has a couple Skillers, torch and anni.

Very safe char with its ranged and fabulous damage. Has stacked res and sorb all elemental damages. I was surprised at how effective blade fury was when you build around it.


Thanks again for this great thread.

Great build how do you archive 22k defense in this picture? Im curious..

I know you cant pvp with BFsin but if I put on Um'd Flashripper and Hsarus' Iron Belt+Boots/Cleglaws Gloves+Shield and Angelics combo , ill have 45% Slowtarget, 75% OW, KB and with Venom could be funny as hell the question is if with Cleglaws+Angelics+Hsarus Ill be able to hit targets with that AR maybe a Visionary circle too?

[Sass]

We don't know the teammate and his merc, but I can at least see chilling triggered from Fort and what must be a stacked Defiance Aura from some source (exile, Merc, player, we can't tell). Also, no telling if Cloak was active since I see no monsters.

With all that, topping at a good 22K would be probable.

[Totulotu]

Hmm, there was mentioned dmg eith chaos Suwayyah. Is that with one claw, or dual wield? Cuz when it was with one claw, then doesnt dual chaos Suwayyah dmg more than death ettin axe?

[Sass]

Only one claw will be taken into account. If the second has +Blade Fury, that'd be great, but the Chaos mods won't also apply.


Death Ettin Axe Ethereal 1137 155/105
Choas Suwayyah Ethereal 1115 165/105 (weapon)

[Svalin]

How would a giant skull work instead of gullies? Perhaps with 2xed jewels? Let me know what you think.

+250-320 Defense
10% Chance Of Crushing Blow
Knockback
+25-35 to Strength
Socketed (1-2)

Cheers Svalin :)

(Hmm -25% crushingblow is a big hit maybe, but the knockback is nice... been looking for a character to use this on since I found one 2socks +35 str)

[Svalin]

How would a giant skull work instead of gullies? Perhaps with 2xed jewels? Let me know what you think.

+250-320 Defense
10% Chance Of Crushing Blow
Knockback
+25-35 to Strength
Socketed (1-2)

Cheers Svalin :)

(Hmm -25% crushingblow is a big hit maybe, but the knockback is nice... been looking for a character to use this on since I found one 2socks +35 str)

Another question:

How would a +3 traps +3BF claw in offhand compare to a 160%ed monarch?

[Ceramic Weasel]

Update:
Corrected error with mercenary Might aura lvl and adjusted related damage calculations
Added more Venom information
Added information about dual-wielding claws
Added link to Damage Calculator (http://ceramicweasel.zzl.org/diablo/bladefury.html)*
Added comment about Phoenix shield
Added additional example setup
Wording changes

*Using this calculator in IE may cause your computer to explode.

[Ceramic Weasel]

To answer some of the questions that have been asked throughout the last few pages:


Anyone considered the time it takes a blade to reach target when using Phoenix
Fair point. Added a paragraph about this in the Shields section.



What about a different option - the sin uses last wish (might); while the merc is using the AR aura + pride (concentraiton).
A BA merc with Pride is certainly an alternative, but there are a few caveats:
Death still outdamages Last Wish. The additional ED% from lvl 17 Might is not enough to overcome 40-45% DS.
You'll need +AR items to boost your base AR enough for Blessed Aim to enhance (see new example setup with Hsaru's), which means sacrificing some DS or off-weapon ED% somewhere from your equipment.
Life Tap ctc will make it virtually impossible to use any other curse or CoS


wouldn't Famine be a better option than Fury?
No. Claws are needed to hit the highest damage.
Not necessarily claws, per se, but off-weapon ED% and DS/CS are more valuable than high weapon damage. It just so happens that Claw Mastery helps with both of these things.



How would a giant skull work instead of gullies?
Giant Skull is a good option. As you say, losing the Crushing Blow is bad if you don't have another big source (eg. on weapon), but knockback and an extra socket are very helpful.


How would a +3 traps +3BF claw in offhand compare to a 160%ed monarch?
Interesting proposal. Using the same setup as my (new) 10k example, but swapping out the shield for a +6 BF claw, it calculates to 10,189. Not too shabby, and possibly a lot cheaper, but the difference won't always be so small. It depends on how much of your total off-weapon ED% that you're sacrificing. In this case, 160% only counts for ~18% of the total off-weapon ED%.

[Madness]

I just wanted to say thanks for all the work you've put into this :thumbsup: It was very helpful.

I have a small question about the calculator though, does the %ed from the merc's might go into the off weapon, or to the ed from skills?

[Ceramic Weasel]

I have a small question about the calculator though, does the %ed from the merc's might go into the off weapon, or to the ed from skills?Actually, it doesn't make any difference, those numbers just get added together anyway. I separated them for convenience in an attempt to reduce the amount of manual math people need to do. :) Typically I refer to aura bonuses as 'skill based' though.

[Madness]

Thanks, I noticed it doesnt matter after making the post :)

I'm currently working on getting +skills gear on my merc to maximize his might aura to squeeze yet some more damage :) (eth fury setup)

[bpward]

Hey I've been playing with the blade fury + blade sentinal assassin combination lately.

At first I was using an Eth Famine Small Crescent (350-420 damage) paired with the Phoenix shield (370% ED). Other relevant equipment is Fortitude armor and Giant skull with 70% ED. Combined with a Might + Pride merc, this put me to around 8,500 maximum damage for blade fury on the damage screen.

Then I popped on an Eth Infinity Colossus voulge (98-980 damage, 298% ED) just for fun to see what would happen. Well my maximum damage shot up to 11K and I seem to be a better PVM killer.

So I am wondering does the character screen accurately reflect the damage of blade fury? Is the 3/8 weapon reduction applied to the 11K number, or is conviction/40% CB really just that useful compared to the Famine/Phoenix combination?

Either way it seems the Eth Poleaxe has some advantages over the 1H Weapon/Shield combination.

This has me wondering if there is an even better Eth Poleaxe I could be using, one with greater damage boost than Infinity? I could pop the Infinity on the merc and use something like...

Phoenix Colossus voulge
100% chance to cast level 40 Blaze when you level up
40% chance to cast level 22 Firestorm on striking
Level 10-15 Redemption aura when equipped
+350-400% Enhanced Damage
-28% to enemy Fire Resistance
+350-400 Defense against missiles
+15-21 Fire Absorb
20% Deadly Strike
Ignores Target Defense
14% Mana stolen per hit

400% ED on an Eth Cv is around 1300 max damage which could be really insane combined with the other awesome mods on this weapon. I'm really tempted to try this one out but the rune requirement is just so absurd. I already wasted my effort trying this word out on a sword for my whirlwind barb. :(

Destruction Cryptic Axe -
23% chance to cast level 12 Volcano on striking
5% chance to cast level 23 Molten Boulder on striking
100% chance to cast level 45 Meteor when you die
15% chance to cast level 22 Nova on attack
+350% Enhanced Damage
Ignore Target's Defense
Adds 100-180 Magic Damage
7% Mana stolen per hit
20% chance of Crushing Blow
20% Deadly Strike
Prevent Monster Heal
+10 to Dexterity

This one looks real good too, somewhat unfortunately. Although you can't use the Collosus voulge, but I do have an extra 5os Eth Cas hanging around. And actually now that I see the two weapons stats next to each other I think the Destruction weapon would be better than Phoenix. It has less mana regen, but 7% mana steal is plenty for a bladesin even tossing out tons of fury and sentinel.

Then you don't have the annoying firestorm but instead boulder and volcano. Add extra magic damage and 20% CB and prevent monster heal... Destruction wins hands down, even if the phoenix has greater physical damage potential.

Anyways the guide here is great, however I am wondering if the 2H weapons are just being dismissed prematurely without proper testing?

Has anyone else done much 2H weapon testing?

[bpward]

Ok I noticed that the merc Pride weapon gives me around a 2500 damage boost with infinity on. So I might have to stick with Pride on the merc. I'm not sure if that counts the might aura too or if the might stayed on when I took the pride off, but that boost alone is huge and is bigger for the 2H weapons than for the Famine/Phoenix combo. The pride boost was only around 1000 when I had those on.

I'm going to make Destruction tonight and see how it works out...

[Karth]

Don't forget that Infinity is giving you the benefit of very, very greatly reduced enemy defense. This could be a large part of that extra damage you're talking about.

[stephan]

Hey I've been playing with the blade fury + blade sentinal assassin combination lately.

At first I was using an Eth Famine Small Crescent (350-420 damage) paired with the Phoenix shield (370% ED). Other relevant equipment is Fortitude armor and Giant skull with 70% ED. Combined with a Might + Pride merc, this put me to around 8,500 maximum damage for blade fury on the damage screen.
There is no point to look at the LCS for your damage because it doesn't accurately display your BF damage in any kind of way. You will have to do the calculation by hand.

If you look at the base average damage of an eth Famine Small Crescent (49*1.5*4.7 = 345 max) and an eth Infinity (91*1.5*4.25 = 580 max) and then apply the 3/4 and 3/8 penalties you get 345*3/4 = 259 and 580*3/8 = 218.

Raw damage wise it is quite easy to see what wins.

[bpward]

Yeah this build is a lot of fun. I found Eth Destruction works best for me over Eth Infinity and the Famine/Phoenix combo .

Then I add the Rogue merc using Wrath bow, Eth Treachery armor and Eth Delerium helm.

I ended up cutting the act 3 merc because his damage boost isn't enough to keep me from dying. The Rogue does major crowd control PLUS decrepify for phys immunes. Chaos dual physical immunes were impossible without the rogue merc.

[Ceramic Weasel]

... does the character screen accurately reflect the damage of blade fury? ... I am wondering if the 2H weapons are just being dismissed prematurely without proper testing?


When wielding 2-Handed weapons, the BF 3/4 penalty increases to 3/8. This is widely known and has been confirmed throughout my testing many times over. What isn't widely known, however, is that the LCS will continue to display damage as though the penalty were 3/4. Do not trust your character screen!

I tested this quite thoroughly at the time. Your character screen is lying to you. The perceived damage increase you're experiencing is most likely due to the CB and reduced monster defense from Conviction.

Compare it against a high damage 1H weapon with a high % CB, and put Infinity on your merc. It'll probably be more effective than your Might + Pride merc.

[bpward]

Yeah I actually am going with an Eth Superior Death Ettin Axe now, which has major deadly strike and CB, plus the Phoenix Shield. Merc has Eth Destruction Cryptic Axe. I think having cloak of shadows plus infinity is a bit of a waste. If I need to drop defense I can just cast cloak and focus on pure power. I'm thinking about switching to a more kick based build now though because I really like using dragon strike (teleport kick).

With the death axe I can use blade shield too and if I switch to mostly kicks I have the gear to run 75% crush blow and 90+% deadly strike, and be able to make use of it all with combined Teleport kick (dragon strike), into Regular kick (talon), then Blade fury if I don't want to teleport kick the ranged guys (1 skill point) and have Blade shield running.

This would let me use all the mods most effectively since only some spells use CB and others DS.

[onderduiker]

I think having cloak of shadows plus infinity is a bit of a waste. If I need to drop defense I can just cast cloak and focus on pure power.
Cloak of Shadows does not apply to bosses (http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/bosses.shtml); Conviction does.

[crawlingdeadman]

imagine that, Arreat Summit contradicts itself:

Cloak Of Shadows' "Blinding" will not work on: Unique, Champion Class, Super Unique Monsters and bosses. Defense adjustment will always work for you and monsters.
http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/assassin-shadow.shtml

that at least to me it seems to imply that the -def works for all monsters.

[Ceramic Weasel]

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/assassin-shadow.shtml

that at least to me it seems to imply that the -def works for all monsters.

It certainly does. Unfortunately, it's wrong. :(

[onderduiker]

imagine that, Arreat Summit contradicts itself:

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/assassin-shadow.shtml

that at least to me it seems to imply that the -def works for all monsters.
I linked to the Arreat Summit's recently created Bosses (http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/bosses.shtml) page for the convenience of a list of the bosses to which Cloak of Shadows does not apply -% Defence (it does apply to Super Unique, Unique and Champion monsters, although it doesn't blind them).

I know Cloak of Shadows doesn't apply -% Defence to the bosses listed on that page because I actually tested it before submitting the update which resulted in that page's creation on 1 March this year (which is still visible on the AS News (http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/) page).

I have no idea when the Shadow Disciplines page was last updated.

[EricTW]

Long time reader, 1st time poster.

This question has probably already been answered but if I'm using 2 claws does off-hand weapon %ed affect BF? and will CM count again for my second claw?

[onderduiker]

The secondary claw's % Enhanced Damage does not apply to the primary claw's damage, and Claw Mastery's bonuses only apply to the primary claw, since that is the claw being used to attack.

Due to a bug, Claw Mastery's +% Attack Rating doesn't apply when using Blade Fury.