View Full Version : Who here thinks meph/baal will make an appearance?
Marahumm
09-07-2009, 18:47
The way I see it....
I'm not sure how baal was "destroyed" (diablo 2 doesn't exactly talk about us going back to hell and destroying his soulstone at the forge), but meph and diablo's soulstones were destroyed the same way. I think that if only one of the two are coming back, it'd be mephisto.
Any thoughts on this?
I don't really understand soul stones.
So their soul is in the stone? If so then what does killing their form do, send them back to the soul stone? And then smashing the soul stone does what, send them back to hell or kill them? What about killing them or bashing their stone IN hell? What happens then?
The only soul stone i recall bashing is Meph's.
Marahumm
09-07-2009, 19:09
In the cutscene between act 4 and 5 marius talks about a hero (you) smashing both soulstones.
The way I see it....
I'm not sure how baal was "destroyed" (diablo 2 doesn't exactly talk about us going back to hell and destroying his soulstone at the forge), but meph and diablo's soulstones were destroyed the same way. I think that if only one of the two are coming back, it'd be mephisto.
Any thoughts on this?Baal's body (Tal Rasha) was destroyed. The demon itself may be sent back to the abyss like all demons.
And if either meph or diablo, I'd bet on Diablo, considering the name ;)
As for soul stones, they were a means of capturing the souls of the prime evils in this plane. It more or less anchored them (Which Izual neglected to mention, thus ensuring that the Primes would stay there, without interference from the world stone).
From there, they could corrupt people from within the stone. Smashing the stone cuts the anchor, and they cannot return to Sanctuary thanks to the world stone. With the WS out, soul stones are more or less moot anyway.
In the cutscene between act 4 and 5 marius talks about a hero (you) smashing both soulstones.
Ok so what's the smashing do?
I don't see why it would make sense that smashing kills them because why would they ever have purposefully entered into this soul stone nonsense if it made them so weak to destruction?
Also if smashing kills them then Diablo is dead and we have no story unless they bring in some resurrection trump card which IMO sucks as a plot enabler.
SlechtWeerBeer
09-07-2009, 19:27
Ok so what's the smashing do?
I don't see why it would make sense that smashing kills them because why would they ever have purposefully entered into this soul stone nonsense if it made them so weak to destruction?
Also if smashing kills them then Diablo is dead and we have no story unless they bring in some resurrection trump card which IMO sucks as a plot enabler.
While in the soul stones they obviously still had influence in the world of Sanctuary (which was not the original plan). Mephisto is trapped in the soul stone, you smash it, he loses all influence in Sanctuary (sent back to Hell).
The Worldstone was an "ultimate" barrier against both the Heavens and Hell. With it destroyed, both can invade Sanctuary and wreak havoc. Smashing the soul stones wasn't all that effective in the end.
Well, that's what I recall. Might not be entirely accurate; not a pro on lore.
Marahumm
09-07-2009, 19:28
Baal's body (Tal Rasha) was destroyed. The demon itself may be sent back to the abyss like all demons.
And if either meph or diablo, I'd bet on Diablo, considering the name ;)
As for soul stones, they were a means of capturing the souls of the prime evils in this plane. It more or less anchored them (Which Izual neglected to mention, thus ensuring that the Primes would stay there, without interference from the world stone).
From there, they could corrupt people from within the stone. Smashing the stone cuts the anchor, and they cannot return to Sanctuary thanks to the world stone. With the WS out, soul stones are more or less moot anyway.
When I mentioned mephisto coming back, i was referring to it either being him or baal, we all know diablo's coming back ;)
But if what you're saying is true, then that would mean that baal would still be in sanctuary? Right after we kill baal his soulstone would still be active, I'm sure. And if the world stone is the key to passing through hell, destroying it would kill that connection, leaving baal's soulstone stuck in sanctuary.
EDIT: I think I read your post wrong...still trying to wrap my mind around it lol.
When I mentioned mephisto coming back, i was referring to it either being him or baal, we all know diablo's coming backYou had me kinda worried there ^^;
But if what you're saying is true, then that would mean that baal would still be in sanctuary? Right after we kill baal his soulstone would still be active, I'm sure. And if the world stone is the key to passing through hell, destroying it would kill that connection, leaving baal's soulstone stuck in sanctuary.While we don't know if baal's soulstone was destroyed, I for one remember killing him. :P
He's likely in the same place we banished Meph and Diablo.
And breaking the world stone means that the soulstones aren't needed. They're free to enter or exit without its hindrance. Why it's taking 20 years to do so idk.
Marahumm
09-07-2009, 19:34
No full rejuv's I suppose
Starving_Poet
09-07-2009, 19:36
Exactly, Soulstones are like anchors - without them, they can't stay in our world.
They might be able to pop up and pray on the weak - Like how Baal does to Marius - but without the stone, they have no power.
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it the World stone that both a) kept sanctuary between the two planes (it supressed the power of the angels and the demons), and b) kept human's power from manifesting itself (by supressesing our angelic and demonic heritage)?
I foresee Diablo 3 taking on route of the demons bringing sanctuary to their world, instead of them coming to sanctuary.
Exactly, Soulstones are like anchors - without them, they can't stay in our world.
They might be able to pop up and pray on the weak - Like how Baal does to Marius - but without the stone, they have no power.
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it the World stone that both a) kept sanctuary between the two planes (it supressed the power of the angels and the demons), and b) kept human's power from manifesting itself (by supressesing our angelic and demonic heritage)?
I foresee Diablo 3 taking on route of the demons bringing sanctuary to their world, instead of them coming to sanctuary.No, C: all of the above :smug:
never really thought about sanc into hell. Well, Urehians tried, but maybe demons could...
Marahumm
09-07-2009, 20:43
Ok so the general consensus so far shows that the lore doesn't make it impossible for diablo's brothers to make an appearance. Now the question is WILL they?
thesleeplesstar
09-07-2009, 21:32
No full rejuv's I suppose
okay, that's HILARIOUS hahahaha
I'm guessing it took 20 years because someone summons them maybe? Idk... but i can't wait to find out
My guess is that there was some loophole for the higher beings to get into Sanctuary, as Tyreal showed up numerous times, and Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto still somehow managed to get in despite it as well.
Since the world stone wasn't doing it's job very well, the soulstones were used to bind the Three up. Even though this anchors them to our world, without a host body they are relatively inert. It was Izual's fault they learned how to corrupt the soulstones to find host bodies, so the only way to at least temporarily get them out of power would be to kill the host and smash the soulstones, leaving them with having to use whatever loophole to get back into Sanctuary.
Baal tried corrupting the soulstone to basically make it a giant portal to hell, to flood Sanctuary with demons, or possibly use it to enter Heaven. Tyreal destroys it instead, so now Sanctuary is pretty much a place for demons and angels to pretty much go as they please. This doesn't really sound like it's happening in the 20 year interim however, so the must be some time consuming process to actually enter into sanctuary.
The only way to really protect Sanctuary from the Brother's endlessly invading Sanctuary over and over again would be to:
1) Cut whatever anchors and hosts bind them to Sanctuary,
2) Destroy whatever enabled them to enter in the first place (a portal or summoner etc.),
3) Rebuild the worldstone, but this time close up whatever loophole allowed them in their in the first place.
Or you could just Deux Ex Machina the whole thing and have them get banished to a pocket dimension or something, leaving Hell without it's heads of State but still able to cause a minor ruckus in Sanctuary. Who knows?
Anyways, that's just my opinion. :thumbup:
I'm thinking Diablo will make an appearance but I forsee Blizzard taking the Diablo franchise in a new direction with new stories and new bosses to fight. World of Sanctuary anyone ?
Demons and Angels should be flooding into Sanctuary since the Worldstone was destroyed, but they haven't for some reason. What gives? We will find out in Diablo 3.
However, this is my opinion. If I were the demons, I wouldn't just suddenly come barging in. They have a plan and it could be that they're are just waiting for the right moment to strike. Although, what are the Angels doing? Why would they wait as well? Something is going on? Maybe they are just waiting for the Demons to make their first strike?
Well, all I can say is that I do believe Tyreal did know what he was doing when he destroyed the Worldstone. There had to be some purpose behind it. We just don't know what purpose that is and who it was for.
Starving_Poet
13-07-2009, 17:49
You need to remember that the Angels aren't entirely pleased that Sanctuary exists.
You need to remember that the Angels aren't entirely pleased that Sanctuary exists.
What makes you say that?
Fackelare
14-07-2009, 10:14
What makes you say that?
Lore... I'll try to find some links when I have some more time...
http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Angiris_Council
You can see some mixed feelings existed within the council...
http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Sanctuary
Some more background information
I think the reason it took 20 years for trouble to start brewing is because we need to think on a longer time line scale. Sure, 20 years looks like a lifetime to us, but for a demon or angel it is a mere moment among eons. It might have taken that long for the worldstone's residual energies to fully dissipate, or it may have taken that long to complete the sommuning ritual to actually enter into Sanctuary.
mince pies
17-07-2009, 14:45
My guess is that there was some loophole for the higher beings to get into Sanctuary, as Tyreal showed up numerous times, and Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto still somehow managed to get in despite it as well.
Pretty sure Diablo, Baal and Mephi were banished by Azmodan and Belial to Sanctuary during the Dark Exile and I think Tyrael was also shunned by the Angels for wanting to help Sanctuary, so maybe the Angels banished him there too as a punishment?
BurntBlackFlesh
19-07-2009, 06:37
Lore... I'll try to find some links when I have some more time...
http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Angiris_Council
You can see some mixed feelings existed within the council...
http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Sanctuary
Some more background information
Hello folks! I have been a lurker for a LONG time! But even after all of the compelling threads I've come across, it was this one, that forced me to join.
So, I've played D1 and D2 as Single player, at least 2 times, each. I'm not a BattleNet player, for reasons that I feel have been fixed in D3, just to give you folks some idea of my familiarity with the Game lore, and style of play.
Are the Diablo books being considered part of the game continuity?
I would like to know because if this is indeed the case, I make just have to go and make some book purchases!
@Burnt
I'm pretty sure the books are considered part of the game continuity, some were written after DII was released and the author commented "I'm not making books for a dead game". Could mean anything... but the odds are good that they will be part of the lore.
Here is what I think about returning Meph, D and Baal.
After Tyrael smashed the soulstone, we didn't really knew what happened. I think it have set the demons free (to come to sanctuary) and it actually destroyed the power of soulstone, meaning demon's souls could've come back to hell and be reborn there (three brothers).
The time gasp can possibly be explained because Azmodan and Belial took over hell rulership when their brothers were away (I'm certain I've read that somewhere). And now that Diablo's back, there is some kind of war in hell and that's why they do not conquer Sanctuary faster.
Remember the cinematic video, at the beggining we see something falling from the sky and it may be Diablo who came back to set lose demons under Tristram. Maybe Diablo was banished from hell? Who knows. This would allow us to go fight against the three brothers and then try stopping hell's legions of Bel an Azmo. That's the best plot I could've think of.
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