View Full Version : Pay for HC Char Resurrection?
It's just an idea he was kicking around, but as I noted in a post (http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/bashiok-on-death-proof/) on the main page, here's something Bashiok threw out for discussion.
One pay-for idea that specifically relates to Diablo that I thought was kind of interesting was the chance to resurrect a fallen hardcore character.
I think this was mentioned by a fan, as far as I know we’re not even thinking about these types of pay-for options yet. But, I think it’s kind of interesting. I’m not sure if I like the idea or not, which is probably why I like thinking about it. There are some obvious pros and some obvious cons, but I’m not sure there’s a clear cut answer as to whether it would work well or not.
I reacted to this concept about as well as a cat doused with a bucket of water, but maybe that's just me? Can anyone imagine this sort of thing working with hardcore mode? Would it bring new people in? Would it fundamentally change the mind set of hc players?
What if it could only be done once per character?
What if it brought that character back so you could get their equipment, but not actually play them?
What if they had some kind of emblem signifying their resurrected status (like a giant dollar/euro/pound/yen sign floating over their head).
Or is it a total no go to have any kind of resurrection with a HC mode?
HanShotFirst
08-07-2009, 07:46
That’s a lot of questions! (But makes formatting a response really simple . . . I like it!)
I reacted to this concept about as well as a cat doused with a bucket of water, but maybe that's just me?
Me too (and the water was icy cold).
Can anyone imagine this sort of thing working with hardcore mode?
I can imagine it . . . and it makes my face contort (not in a good way).
Would it bring new people in?
Perhaps . . . and if it did I would suspect that it would be a more immature group of people.
Would it fundamentally change the mind set of hc players?
Yes. In my mind it would make hardcore meaningless . . . and I would also lose all respect for Blizzard. (If you were referring to playstyle, I imagine there really wouldn’t be any change . . . but I can’t really imagine anyone wanting to play hardcore under these rules to start with . . . so perhaps there’s some other mindset that I can’t even begin to imagine).
What if it could only be done once per character?
No!
What if it brought that character back so you could get their equipment, but not actually play them?
No!
What if they had some kind of emblem signifying their resurrected status (like a giant dollar/euro/pound/yen sign floating over their head)?
Now this is sort of appealing! If the character had a dollar sign floating above its head in game (I’m picturing like a skill shrine style graphic), and if the character’s name had a dollar sign next to it on the ladder or in chat rooms . . . perhaps . . . The Scarlet Dollar could serve to identify people who couldn’t keep their characters alive and (most importantly) have really really messed up financial priorities (and we could all point and laugh at them). (Wait. I’ve never been interested in pointing and laughing at people . . . so even this really has no appeal).
Or is it a total no go to have any kind of resurrection with a HC mode?
Absolute and total no go in my mind . . . do we want to play hardcore?! (*Yes*) . . or do we want to essentially play pay-to-continue-playing-softcore?! (*Boo*Hiss*Boo*)
ZappaFan
08-07-2009, 12:37
One possibility I've thought of before is to get one "mulligan" for a character death once you've gotten to level 90. Just about anything other than that I would not be in favor of (and I'm even luke-warm on this idea myself). The mulligan would be a "soft-core" type of death the first time you died once you hit 90.
EDIT: To be clear, by "soft-core" type of death I don't mean the player turns soft-core. I'm saying the HC character is revived back into HC the same way a SC death works.
I think that any sort of resurrection of any kind in Hardcore mode would remove the essential aspect that drives Hardcore mode in the first place.
"Hardcore" mode doesn't mean "players who are really into the game" (although that generally comes along with it).
"Hardcore" mode is just a cool way to say "everybody in here has never died, ever."
To remove that, even after a certain level or any other landmark, would be to destroy the essence of what Hardcore mode is all about.
Having said that, I would support a pay-for-resurrection, or even free-resurrection of a Hardcore character into the Softcore realms. For the pansies :] But no character should *ever* be revived into the Hardcore realms. The idea is diametrically opposed to the single largest factor of why Hardcore mode was created in the first place.
Hopefully this idea will never be set in motion.
Because then they might just rename HC to $-mode, where people with the fattest wallets are the "best" players..
Sorry, but this just isn't a good idea. If you die you die, end of story. That's why people play this mode, for the added challenge and risk.
Monster Hunter
09-07-2009, 04:31
I think there would be a lot less Hardcore players. Also Players would be mad to pay to play again
LonelyAnon
09-07-2009, 07:10
To me this would kill hardcore, it would just become a more expensive softcore. If you die you die, and if you're not cool with that, go back to softcore.
Because then they might just rename HC to $-mode, where people with the fattest wallets are the "best" players..
Exactly!
Hardcore was a chance to prove that aside from having the best loot, you actually did retain some skill in keeping yourself alive. If you could just res over and over, skill is taken out of the picture, and skill is why I prefer hardcore and without it my hardcore expieriance would be cheapened, and I believe REAL hardcore players would feel the same!
Pay2Res...BAH
I'd accept paying to switch the character to SC upon death if need be, but that's it. Anything that allows resurrection in HC is just wrong. I sincerely hope Blizzard doesn't add such a "feature".
Master Zap
09-07-2009, 18:01
I'd accept paying to switch the character to SC upon death if need be, but that's it. Anything that allows resurrection in HC is just wrong. I sincerely hope Blizzard doesn't add such a "feature".
+1 to this :thumbsup:
Krazeyivan
09-07-2009, 20:58
+1 to this :thumbsup:
+2 - Moved to a place worse than oblivion ... Softcore :jig:
Death_of_Angels
10-07-2009, 05:00
I think this is just a bad idea. If anything they should make the monsters more difficult and make it easier to die in D3 hardcore than it was in D2 hardcore, and possibly introduce some new items and quests that can't be done in SC
TheDarkSide
10-07-2009, 11:02
Iv'e had plenti of HC characters die in Diablo 2 and the only thing that brought me back was the chance to rebuild from scratch and learn from my previous mistakes. How can I make this build stronger and better able to handle situation X ...
I dont think a re-do pay thing makes any sense really in order to call it HC. When you die in HC mode you learn to NOT do that again , well hopefully , I have died to IM many times but you get the idea..
:yes:
TammerHime
10-07-2009, 13:34
Uh no....
The point of being "Hardcore" is to "not" "die".
Basically what you want is the reputation of being "hardcore" without acctually haveing to be "hardcore".
If you want a real hardcore charecter rez you get one a month.... thats it..... nothing more. Otherwise your just buying a reputation.
And thats
I reacted to this concept about as well as a cat doused with a bucket of water, but maybe that's just me?
Can anyone imagine this sort of thing working with hardcore mode?
Would it bring new people in?
Would it fundamentally change the mind set of hc players?
What if it could only be done once per character?
What if it brought that character back so you could get their equipment, but not actually play them?
What if they had some kind of emblem signifying their resurrected status (like a giant dollar/euro/pound/yen sign floating over their head).
Or is it a total no go to have any kind of resurrection with a HC mode?
Such a terrible idea.
No, it would not work with hardcore mode. It would destroy hardcore mode because hardcore mode is about the "status" of knowing you got to the end without dying. A pay to ressurect mode would turn HC in SC with a more stiff death penalty (one aimed directly at your RL wallet)
It might bring new people in but I doubt it would if people saw it for what it really is. It would be just like playing a "I have more rl money than you mode" as getting to high levels would instantly mean you only had enough money to ressurect your character enough times to get there, instead of meaning you accomplished something without dying.
I think it would fundamentally change the mindset of HC players (I would quit playing HC) because it would turn HC into SC, pure and simple. The idea with HC is you're playing a mode with consequences. By putting this in you're shifting the consequences for what happens in game to the real world, which ultimately makes the consequences no longer tangible in the game, but merely affecting how much money you have.
If it could only be done once per character that might be a "reasonable" solution to a fix of something that was never a problem in the first place. The problem with that is that character lives are intended to be very long and leveling is not supposed to be the lengthy exercise it is in D3. What that means is that if it were just allowed once, people would have the option essentially of simply remaking their character the first time they die, preventing them from actually suffering any loss from death, which is ultimately what HC mode is about.
Retrieval of items is an interesting question, because it really points out a problem (imo) with D2 in that those who did shell out more money have this feature already. If you have 2 accounts, for example, you can avoid ever losing your character's equipped gear, simply by diligently having both accts in one game. So in that aspect it becomes an interesting issue I think, but ultimately I think it should be an all or nothing thing. I think either looting should be able to be done at any time, by anyone you designate, OR there should be no looting ever.
I think it's somewhat ridiculous to give people in game advantages based on how much money they spend personally, so all this I think is a no-go. Giving players more space, giving them security, giving them asthetics and content, sure. But giving players items and tangible in game advantages based on giving the company money just seems abhorrent, and IMO it's only a stones throw away from being able to buy a high level character from Blizz, and then buy the high level items from them as well.
Would hardcore mean anything if all you had to do to get a high level character was shell out $40 to blizzard?
MoUsE_WiZ
15-07-2009, 06:00
What if they had some kind of emblem signifying their resurrected status (like a giant dollar/euro/pound/yen sign floating over their head).
This would be hilarious and I would totally support paid resurrect in HC for the sole purpose of getting to see who was willing to pay extra money for the privilege of playing softcore. It would have to be giant and visible everywhere that their HC status is visible though.
But aside from that, no.
Would hardcore mean anything if all you had to do to get a high level character was shell out $40 to blizzard?
Well, pay $40 to Blizzard or $40 to the sites that offer character leveling and full item sets. It's basically the same thing.
Though, I have a feeling that people would be much more upset about having to pay Blizzard instead of the botters. Giant can of worms. Gummy worms. Mmm.
Runestar
15-07-2009, 07:48
I agree that it is a very bad idea.
If you are going to play hardcore with the belief that you can simply pay to raise any dead PC, then why even bother with hardcore? Unless they make hardcore like some sort of D2 ladder where only certain powerful items are available to HC, you may as well stick with softcore.
You know very well the risks of dying when you went HC, I don't see why you should be able to circumvent it.
Maybe an option where you can at any time choose to convert a HC character to a softcore one (and the change is irrevocable). Maybe you have taken your character further than expected, and would like to progress him further, but don't want to lose him if/when he dies (and you fully expect him to some day).
I agree that it is a very bad idea.
If you are going to play hardcore with the belief that you can simply pay to raise any dead PC, then why even bother with hardcore? Unless they make hardcore like some sort of D2 ladder where only certain powerful items are available to HC, you may as well stick with softcore.
You know very well the risks of dying when you went HC, I don't see why you should be able to circumvent it.
Maybe an option where you can at any time choose to convert a HC character to a softcore one (and the change is irrevocable). Maybe you have taken your character further than expected, and would like to progress him further, but don't want to lose him if/when he dies (and you fully expect him to some day).
You know, I used to believe that people played HC because of the risk and eventual outcome of creating such a character - the death of said character.
Playing online totally destroyed this idea for me. Characters are built to be super sturdy, to the point of being cheesy. PDR builds and the lightning absorb belt win big prizes here. Furthermore, programs are used to provide god mod - chicken hack and all variations of it.
Online Hardcore isn't played to beat the game without dying. It's played to outlive your peers.
Maybe I don't really believe that, but it's just an idea and sort of feeling that I get when I look back on my D2 experience.
Runestar
16-07-2009, 11:13
I saw hardcore more as a means of challenging yourself to see how long you could stave off death. Main difference from softcore (man, sounds like some sort of pornography discussion) is that you get bragging rights because other people will know that you have never died before.
Playing online totally destroyed this idea for me. Characters are built to be super sturdy, to the point of being cheesy.
Seems only natural. You cannot afford to die even once. So it makes sense to want to invest a fair amount of resources into boosting your defenses (though I suppose it can go to extremes if you are really paranoid enough). You cannot afford to play as carelessly or haphazardly as before.
Furthermore, programs are used to provide god mod - chicken hack and all variations of it.
This seems more an issue with people cheating and circumventing the spirit of hardcore more than it is a flaw with hardcore itself.
I agree though that this cheapens the value of a hardcore character somewhat - you either are that good a player that you haven't died once, or you used a hack to make yourself immortal so you can't be killed by conventional means, and people have no means of telling which is which.
Though personally, since HC remains an option, I see little reason to not let it remain. I mean - I just play my softcore PCs, while others play their HC characters the way they want. It has virtually no impact on gameplay (for me at least). Though Blizzard may want to implement more safeguards if they wish to preserve its allure.
I'm genuinely opposed to the resurrection of HC characters. It pretty much disgusts me; and I have a strong stomach.
However, I don't feel too negatively towards the idea of HC characters being resurrected as SC characters, provided they were stripped of their (possible) HC Ladder titles and perhaps given a little icon that shows they have transitioned from HC to SC. Like a box of puppies and flowers hovering over their head.
No wait, I still don't like the idea.
Intolerance
17-07-2009, 15:47
I think that any sort of resurrection of any kind in Hardcore mode would remove the essential aspect that drives Hardcore mode in the first place.
"Hardcore" mode doesn't mean "players who are really into the game" (although that generally comes along with it).
"Hardcore" mode is just a cool way to say "everybody in here has never died, ever."
To remove that, even after a certain level or any other landmark, would be to destroy the essence of what Hardcore mode is all about.
Having said that, I would support a pay-for-resurrection, or even free-resurrection of a Hardcore character into the Softcore realms. For the pansies :] But no character should *ever* be revived into the Hardcore realms. The idea is diametrically opposed to the single largest factor of why Hardcore mode was created in the first place.
I'm in 100% agreement. If you remove the permanence of death from HC, you're watering down the experience for everyone.
In allowing a dead HC character to be revived as a Softcore character, it should suffer any experience penalty that occurs upon a Softcore death and lose everything on the character- items, weapons, gold, etc.
FuzzyPuppy
29-07-2009, 08:11
NO NO NO NO NO
Diablo 2 was the only game that ever got me totally immersed in because of HC mode. 1 mistake and it is over made for an experience unmatched in any other game I have played. Any sort of safety net would make HC mode not really HC mode
I remeber when I used to play diablo on softcore, and honestly the hardcore "Culture" is different.
I could never go back to softcore, and paying to revive a hardcore char removes the risk, the fun and the excitement of everything in hardcore.
That's what I like about hardcore when you duel someone w/o loot it's such a rush whoever loses, loses everything. Knowing you can buy your stuff back if you die would kill the "Rush" or Emotional (OH SH**) feelings you get when you're playing hardcore, and I think that's what makes hardcore so addictive.
I'm kinda on a different planet right now but, what I am saying is I don't like the idea.
It's just an idea he was kicking around, but as I noted in a post (http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/bashiok-on-death-proof/) on the main page, here's something Bashiok threw out for discussion.
One pay-for idea that specifically relates to Diablo that I thought was kind of interesting was the chance to resurrect a fallen hardcore character.
I think this was mentioned by a fan, as far as I know we’re not even thinking about these types of pay-for options yet. But, I think it’s kind of interesting. I’m not sure if I like the idea or not, which is probably why I like thinking about it. There are some obvious pros and some obvious cons, but I’m not sure there’s a clear cut answer as to whether it would work well or not.
I reacted to this concept about as well as a cat doused with a bucket of water, but maybe that's just me? Can anyone imagine this sort of thing working with hardcore mode? Would it bring new people in? Would it fundamentally change the mind set of hc players?
What if it could only be done once per character?
What if it brought that character back so you could get their equipment, but not actually play them?
What if they had some kind of emblem signifying their resurrected status (like a giant dollar/euro/pound/yen sign floating over their head).
Or is it a total no go to have any kind of resurrection with a HC mode?
I'm a hardcore player since years. If Blizzard include the possibility of resurrect paying (gold, items, real money, or *any*), I won't play hardcore in Diablo3.
Granted.
Please no.. that makes HC not really HC anymore..
KingOfKings
24-08-2009, 12:39
i would pay without a doubt for there not to be this option.
godmode in hardcore has no place. a dead character is a dead character.
otherwise whats the point of harcore at all?
totally stupid imo.
KingOfKings
24-08-2009, 12:41
whats the next carebear fan suggestion? pay to get back softcore xp loss/gold/item durability?
sunkenfaith
25-08-2009, 12:53
I hope that this does not get implemented from the bottom of my heart.
emopanda
26-08-2009, 22:55
lvl99s would make me raise an eye.. if it was implemented. It would be something like no life + rich irl.
GoBigRed
27-08-2009, 22:39
Terrible idea that destroys the soul of hardcore. The idea of coming back as a softcore character is just as bad, the whole point of hardcore is that he only has 1 life and is gone forever when he falls.
StrikexForce
25-09-2009, 07:52
To me this would kill hardcore, it would just become a more expensive softcore. If you die you die, and if you're not cool with that, go back to softcore.
Exactly!
Hardcore was a chance to prove that aside from having the best loot, you actually did retain some skill in keeping yourself alive. If you could just res over and over, skill is taken out of the picture, and skill is why I prefer hardcore and without it my hardcore expieriance would be cheapened, and I believe REAL hardcore players would feel the same!
Pay2Res...BAH
I agree.
Someone brought up the pay-to-softcore would be an interesting choice.
If you die on hardcore, you can never be revived into hardcore again. I think it really needs to stay this way. But, if you paid you can revive your dead hardcore character into softcore so you havent lost the character forever.
I think this is the best possible solution if a pay for revival scheme was to be implemented.
i think the idea is obsurd. 1. its a terrible way for blizzard to be making money. its basically softcore but paying to revive your hero. why would anyone play that? isnt it then a gambling thrill that you might have to pay up for dying? wouldnt the majority just go to softcore and avoid having to make payments. payments which some people will make since spending a lot of time and getting attached to a character will cause a feeling of obligation to pay.
when i played diablo 2 i started in softcore. once i got familiar with the game i went to hardcore and never looked back. the hardcore philosophy was and is simple. u get 1 chance and 1 chance only. that is where the thrill is. that is also where the sense of accomplishment is. sitting in channel with everyone else who have also avoided death, and no one else.
Inkarnus
08-10-2009, 20:08
Ress and come back in hardcore? BIG NO!!! That will make players kill other players who dont want to ress. Only one life in hardcore!
But if I die in Hardcore sure let me pay and get ressed back as a Softcore character. Thats fine. To continue in the softcore world if I want to keep my items and so on. That might get a lot more players to try hardcore. And if they got lag or other problems they not can control, they can come back in softcore. But never ress in hardcore. That is TABU.
If you have problem with lag in hardcore, invent something that kicks the player out of the game if you can detect that lag was the problem that caused death.
any option to revive a character, be it in hardcore or in softcore, will completely change a players mindset toward the mode. the whole issue with dying is that you then think about what was. how good your character was that you miss it and are gutted about the items lost. this will vanish with ress.
also, what about those people who are playing hardcore but prefer softcore, then find some elite items on hardcore. chances are they will have their character killed and then transfer.
Blizzard think only on money when they talk about this! Make good games one thing, but Blizzard dont destroy your heads to think in money all the time!
ThulRasha
26-11-2009, 11:38
Absolute and total no go in my mind . . . do we want to play hardcore?! (*Yes*) . . or do we want to essentially play pay-to-continue-playing-softcore?! (*Boo*Hiss*Boo*)
Well said. That is exactly what it is, not hardcore, but subscription based softcore.
I would doubt any high level HC char, suspecting them from foul p(l)ay. And I would not value a high level HC char of myself, because I just know people would suspect me.
Paying to move a dead HC char towards SC would be okay, but I for one would not use such a service, since I do not intend to play SC if the game also has an HC mode. But it's fine if this is available for people who do want to use it.
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