Furysin Questions

[Reelix]

Hi all!

I've got a few questions regarding Furysins that I wish answered - Asking around in-game, I've had varied responses. My questions are as follows:

1.) Does Blade Fury get affected by Increased Attack Speed, Increased Cast Rate, or neither?

2.) Does using a 2-handed weapon reduce the damage for Blade Fury?

3.) Does Weapon-Speed matter when using Blade-Fury?

4.) With a Runeword such as "Chaos", will the the "9% Chance To Cast Level 11 Frozen Orb On Striking" work with Blade-Fury as well? (9% chance on a Blade-Fury strike?)

4.b.) If so, If you had 2 Chaos Claws, would you get a 9% chance per claw (Possible chance of double Frozen-Orb on Blade-Fury strike)

5.) Is it worth upgrading Blade Fury past level 1?

6.) Would "Burst Of Speed" or "Fade" be better (Directly related to question 1)

7.) Would the Runeword "Obedience" not make this an ungodly skill (With the enchant) ?

8.) Would "Ignore Targets Defense" make Blade-Fury hit around 100% of the time, even with extremely low Dex?

9.) (Generic Question) Would "Memory" give you the "Energy Shield" skill?

I thank you for your time spent reading, and look forward to the answers :)

- Reelix

[maxicek]

1.) Does Blade Fury get affected by Increased Attack Speed, Increased Cast Rate, or neither?
No, neither

2.) Does using a 2-handed weapon reduce the damage for Blade Fury?
Yes, 3/4 for 1 handed, 3/8 for 2h, despite what the LCS may say.

3.) Does Weapon-Speed matter when using Blade-Fury?
No.

4.) With a Runeword such as "Chaos", will the the "9% Chance To Cast Level 11 Frozen Orb On Striking" work with Blade-Fury as well? (9% chance on a Blade-Fury strike?)
Yes, on striking works.

4.b.) If so, If you had 2 Chaos Claws, would you get a 9% chance per claw (Possible chance of double Frozen-Orb on Blade-Fury strike)
No, it won't work in the off hand claw.

5.) Is it worth upgrading Blade Fury past level 1?
No.

6.) Would "Burst Of Speed" or "Fade" be better (Directly related to question 1)
BoS has no effect on BF, so probably Fade. If you are using DT too, BoS may be a good idea.

7.) Would the Runeword "Obedience" not make this an ungodly skill (With the enchant) ?
Use it to cast enchant and then switch to something else - Fleshripper, Crescent Moon, Stormlash etc.

8.) Would "Ignore Targets Defense" make Blade-Fury hit around 100% of the time, even with extremely low Dex?
Yes, but not against Champions, Uniques & Bosses

9.) (Generic Question) Would "Memory" give you the "Energy Shield" skill?
No, its sorc only.


Have a read of my claw guide for what works with Blade Fury or the Warrior Monk Guide in the stickies.

[Reelix]

Wow - Thanks for the quick, highly detailed reply!! I'd give you additional rating, if this Forum supported it :)

With answer 4, mixed with the high attack speed, and an ignore target defense, You'd be casting Frozen-Orbs at about the same rate as a Low/Mid Level Sorceress on Low Mana - Interesting...

The "Obedience" was intended as a switch item to use for the quick enchant - Yes :)

Pity the "Ignore Target Defense" doesn't work with bosses though - Would make an awesome cower though... An "Orbassin" :) Although, I suppose it'd be useful regardless :)

Another thing I was wondering - Since, on cast, you toss 2 blades - Are the chance-to-hit and damage independant per blade?

I ask this whilst looking at the Runeword "Brand"

With a 100% chance to cast a lvl 18 bone spear on striking, and an "Ignore Target Defense" item, linked with the horrifying speed you toss these things, you'd be casting Bone-Spears faster than a Necromancer with 200% FCR :) Brings another interesting build - A "Spearassin" :)

I thank you for your time spent both reading and replying, as the answers have been extremely helpful!

- Reelix

P.S: Where might I go about finding your claw guide?

- Edit -

Wow - "Destruction" Runeword could be funny...

- Edit 2 -

Holy... "Rift" is SO going to be my End-Game Runeword!!! No Orb (Since it's on attack), but the tornado on Striking, and the insane damage!

- Edit 3 -

Or "Voice of Reason"... Insane Ice right there! And the immununity! Definately Voice of Reason! (And "Rift" vs the Ice immunes :p)

[Ceramic Weasel]

Lvl 11 frozen orb isn't that impressive in Hell. Also, it triggers a casting delay, which interferes with the Blade Fury skill. But it's not as bad as Destruction, which makes a terrible Blade Fury weapon due to all the interruptions.

I'm currently doing an in-depth analysis of Blade Fury. I've been collecting test results for the last week or two and I'll post them in this forum when I'm done. This will include the results of different weapon and equipment combinations. There also a couple of surprising discoveries.

I haven't tried Brand yet, but it looks interesting and will include it in my test cases. I have doubts about Rift and VoR, though. The damage doesn't look very impressive.

[Reelix]

Lvl 11 frozen orb isn't that impressive in Hell. Also, it triggers a casting delay, which interferes with the Blade Fury skill.

Arg - My master plain foiled!

I look forward to your results on Brand!

- Edit -

Which realm do you live on? I'm a US-Wester :) Maybe I could assist with the experiments?

- Edit 2 -

If you throw 4 stars, and the first let's off an orb, can one of the other 3 also let off an orb, or is the casting-delay in effect?

- Edit 3 -

Does "Rift" cause a casting delay? Since the damage mods are quite nice...

- Edit 4 -

Crescent Moon might also be interesting due to the Static Field property vs bosses...

[Akimbo]

Use Crescent Moon or an Eth Stormlash. If you have the money to burn a Last Wish Eth BA is also nice ^^

[Reelix]

Use Crescent Moon or an Eth Stormlash.

Eth rune?

Since I am talking about theoretical Lvl 99 chars, why not a Jah, Lo, or Ber? :)

So far, "Brand" has the most hope :)

[Ceramic Weasel]

Just testing brand now. It's not looking good. I'm thinking the problem is that bows are all 2H weapons, which halves the damage. I'll try VoR and Rift next despite my skepticism.

To answer your questions;

1. I'm on USEast, but I run my tests in single-player where I can make whatever items I need with a character editor.

2. Any star that hits can trigger an Orb, so you can potentially get several orbs out one after the other, but as soon as the first one triggers, you'll stop firing and begin standing up out of the Blade Fury stance until the casting delay is over.

3. Rift won't cause a delay because the Orb won't trigger and Tornado has no casting delay. However there's no %ed on the weapon, and the magic/elemental damage suffers from the same 3/4 penalty as everything else on BF, so I'm not holding much hope for it.

4. Stormlash is probably more effective with crushing blow and a potential socket.

[CCCenturion]

Eth rune?


"eth" means "ethereal" 99% of the time around here

[Ceramic Weasel]

Update: Rift is terrible, worse than Brand, as I thought it would be. Surprisingly, Voice of Reason does okay. The +ed% to Demons and Undead gives it respectable physical damage against those monsters, and the Orb ctc isn't as disruptive as some ctc effects I've seen.

I don't think it's good enough as an end-game weapon though, and no ITD makes it hard to hit anything without your mercenary around.

[Reelix]

Update: Rift is terrible, worse than Brand

And how was Brand? :p

[Ceramic Weasel]

And how was Brand? :p
Fairly pathetic. I made it in a Colossus Crossbow for the high damage, but any bow is at a huge disadvantage for a Blade Fury weapon because;
a) They can't be ethereal, and
b) They're 2H weapons, increasing the BF penalty to 3/8 damage

So far, the highest single-target damage weapon I've found for Blade Fury is an ethereal Death Ettin Axe.

[Reelix]

Fairly pathetic. I made it in a Colossus Crossbow for the high damage, but any bow is at a huge disadvantage for a Blade Fury weapon because;
a) They can't be ethereal, and
b) They're 2H weapons, increasing the BF penalty to 3/8 damage


I'm more speaking about the Bone-Spear spam of the 100% to cast Lvl 18 Bone-Spear on striking (Brand Property)

Surely this, coupled with the EXTREMELY high attack rate would deal tremendous damage (As Bone-Spear doesn't have a cooldown), and go far beyond the damage caused by the individual blades themselves (Hence making the type of crossbow / bow pointless, except for the 50 or so extra damage)?

So far, the highest single-target damage weapon I've found for Blade Fury is an ethereal Death Ettin Axe.

I found that Unique Fire sword (Hellplague) on my Furysin in training - From lvl 21 -> 22, the additional fire damage provided by the sword made a HUGE difference, and, with fade, resulted in my Lvl 26 Assassin and a Lvl 25 BO Barb kill Diablo on Norm (Hardcore) - This was last night :p

[Ceramic Weasel]

I'm more speaking about the Bone-Spear spam of the 100% to cast Lvl 18 Bone-Spear on striking (Brand Property)

Surely this, coupled with the EXTREMELY high attack rate would deal tremendous damage (As Bone-Spear doesn't have a cooldown), and go far beyond the damage caused by the individual blades themselves (Hence making the type of crossbow / bow pointless, except for the 50 or so extra damage)?
Unsynergized Lvl 18 Bone Spear does 179-190 damage. If it was at all impressive, I imagine Strafe would be a better skill to spam it.

All I can say for sure is, against a single target, Bone Spears included, Death does almost twice as much damage per hit as Brand.

[Reelix]

Don't suppose you have a screenshot of casting 4 (Or is it 6?) bone-spears a second? :p

Hmmmm... Which shoots faster - Strafe or Blade Fury? (Or Multi-Shot? 20 arrows hit 20 cows at 100% chance to cast spear... The chaos must be insane!)

Bone-Spear also pierces, so it'd be useful for crowd control :)

Any other spell-on-striking ability you might think to be useful? The one runeword had a high lvl static shock - Surely that would have a drastic effect (The effect of a Sorc casting static shock all the time, non-stop) ? Maybe just a normal item with an odd spell - Frost Bolt, Semi-High lvl Charged bolt... Teeth... An assassin trap (Is that possible on a weapon?) - All thing I'd like to see :)

Oh wait...

"x% chance to cast Blade-Fury on striking" - Now THAT would be interesting to see - Might actually crash the game :D

On a side note, is it possible to get "x% chance to cast x on striking" on a charm?

- Edit -

Chance to cast blessed hammer on striking? The attack-rate is FAR higher than the speed you can cast blessed hammer :p

[Ceramic Weasel]

Strafe shoots at 2fpa, I believe. Multi-shot will only activate ctc effects on the middle two arrows.

Static works just fine, but I find that when playing a BF-sin I'm usually hitting stuff at the edge of my screen with a knockback item equipped, and that puts monsters well out of range of lvl 10-13 static.

The following is a list of all the ctc on striking items in the game, which I just happen to have lying around: :p

Chance to Cast on Striking

Skill Level Chance Found On Class Type
Amplify Damage 2 5% Atma's Scarab Unique Amulet
Amplify Damage 5 2% Witchwild String Unique Short Siege Bow
Amplify Damage 1 5% The Gavel Of Pain Unique Martel de Fer
Amplify Damage 1 6% The Vile Husk Unique Tusk Sword
Amplify Damage 1 4% The Cranium Basher Unique Thunder Maul
Amplify Damage 3 33% Lacerator Unique Winged Axe
Blizzard 5 6% Zakarum's Hand Unique Rune Scepter
Bone Spear 18 100% Brand RW 4 Socket Missile Weapons
Bone Spear 10 15% Bone RW 3 Socket Body Armor
Bone Spear 16 15% Bonehew Unique Ogre Axe
Bone Spirit 20 30% Oath RW 4 Socket Swords/Axes/Maces
Chain Lightning 17 10% Crescent Moon RW 3 Socket Axes/Swords/Polearms
Chain Lightning 10 5% Stormrider Unique Tabar
Charged Bolt 9 11% Chaos RW 3 Socket Claws
Charged Bolt 13-20 10% Stormrider Unique Tabar
Confuse 18 11% Delirium RW 3 Socket Helms
Confuse 1 10% The Fetid Sprinkler Unique Holy Water Sprinkler
Decrepify 15 20% Lawbringer RW 3 Socket Swords/Hammers/Scepters
Decrepify 1 30% Wrath RW 4 Socket Missile Weapons
Decrepify 1 5% The Fetid Sprinkler Unique Holy Water Sprinkler
Decrepify 1 33% The Reaper's Toll Unique Thresher
Enchant 10 2% Lava Gout Unique Battle Gauntlets
Fireball 15 5% Enlightenment RW 3 Socket Body Armor
Firestorm 22 40% Phoenix RW 4 Socket Weapons/Shields
Firestorm 10 25% Hellfire Torch Unique Large Charm
Firestorm 12 4% Hellmouth Unique War Gauntlets
Firestorm 16 12% Flamebellow Unique Balrog Blade
Fissure 7 5% Earthshaker Unique Battle Hammer
Fissure 14 25% Earth Shifter Unique Thunder Maul
Fist of the Heavens 7 5% Goldstrike Arch Unique Gothic Bow
Fist of the Heavens 4 5% Hand Of Blessed Light Unique Divine Scepter
Fist of the Heavens 7 6% Cloudcrack Unique Gothic Sword
Frost Nova 22 25% Ice RW 4 Socket Missile Weapons
Frost Nova 8 33% Shadow Killer Unique Battle Cestus
Frost Nova 3 10% Heaven's Mace Set Reinforced Mace
Frozen Orb 11 9% Chaos RW 3 Socket Claws
Frozen Orb 13 15% Voice of Reason RW 4 Socket Swords/Maces
Frozen Orb 3 5% Bing Sz Wang Unique Dacian Falx
Holy Bolt 5 100% Principle RW 3 Socket Body Armor
Holy Bolt 3 10% Disciple Gloves Set Bramble Mitts
Hydra 15 12% Dragon RW 3 Socket Body Armor/Shields
Ice Blast 20 18% Voice of Reason RW 4 Socket Swords/Maces
Ice Blast 3 10% Hwanins Polearm Set Bill
Ice Blast 20 18% Coldkill Unique Hatchet
Life Tap 5 15% Exile RW 4 Socket Paladin Shields only
Life Tap 18 10% Last Wish RW 6 Socket Swords/Hammers/Axes
Life Tap 10 5% Dracul's Grasp Unique Vampirebone Gloves
Life Tap 10 5% Wrath RW 4 Socket Missile Weapons
Lightning 16 10% Wisp Projector Unique Ring
Lower Resist 1 4% Pus Spitter Unique Siege Crossbow
Meteor 4 2% Hellmouth Unique War Gauntlets
Meteor 6 2% Skystrike Unique Edge Bow
Meteor 6 5% Moonfall Unique Jagged Star
Molten Boulder 23 5% Destruction RW 5 Socket Polearms/Swords
Nova 15 10% M'avina's Bow (3part) Set Grand Matron Bow
Nova 8 5% Baezil's Vortex Unique Knout
Nova 9 25% Warshrike Unique Winged Knife
Poison Explosion 9 15% Viperfork Unique Mancatcher
Poison Nova 8 5% Guardian Naga Unique Naga
Poison Nova 4 5% Plague Bearer Unique Rune Sword
Static Field 13 7% Crescent Moon RW 3 Socket Axes/Swords/Polearms
Static Field 10 15% Stormlash Unique Scourge
Static Field 10 20% Schaefer's Hammer Unique Legendary Mallet
Taunt 1 10% Myth RW 3 Socket Body Armor
Tornado 9 10% Wind RW 2 Socket Melee Weapons
Tornado 16 20% Rift RW 4 Socket Polearms/Scepters
Tornado 15 20% Horizon's Tornado Unique Scourge
Tornado 18 20% Stormlash Unique Scourge
Twister 15 5% Rain RW 3 Socket Body Armor
Twister 13 8% Carrion Wind Unique Ring
Twister 22 33% Windhammer Unique Ogre Maul
Valkyrie 15 2% Peace RW 3 Socket Body Armor
Weaken 5 5% Blackleach Blade Unique Bill
Weaken 3 8% Soul Drainer Unique Vambraces
Weaken 3 8% Doombringer Unique Champion Sword
Weaken 3 10% Heaven's Helm Set Spired Helm
Venom 15 35% Grief RW 5 Socket Swords/Axes
Venom 15 25% Treachery RW 3 Socket Body Armor
Volcano 18 5% Doom RW 5 Socket Axes/Polearms/Hammers
Volcano 12 23% Destruction RW 5 Socket Polearms/Sword

Edit: Bone Spear Screenshot (http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/azmarath/Diablo/Screenshot006.jpg)

[Scudstorm]

Strafe shoots at 2fpa, I believe.

2 fpa Client side, 3 fpa Server side. Since the Server side determines what is actually happening in the game, 3 fpa is the fastest you can get no matter what you see on your screen.

[stephan]

So far, the highest single-target damage weapon I've found for Blade Fury is an ethereal Death Ettin Axe.
That's not really surprising since next to Grief, eDeath is the highest damage weapon in the game.

[Reelix]

Heh - Cool screenshot :)

I was reading this thread, and found a slight anomaly.

Whilst testing chance-to-cast-on-strike weapons, I bought a sword (I think it was) with a small chance to cast a low Level Nova on Striking.

The thing that surprised me is that, on a successful strike, the Nova(s) emanated from the TARGET, and not from myself as I originally thought it would.

Now, I'm not sure if this Nova hurt the target (Carrion Bird in Act2 Nightmare), or if this was an anomaly, but it got me thinking...

The main reason you said that Static-Field on an item would not work is because you would be too far away from the target.. But, if the Field was on the target regardless of the distance, the spell would become unbelievable powerful.

Mind testing this?

[Ceramic Weasel]

I've noticed that anomoly on some ctc skills also. It happens with Frost Nova on Shadowkiller, and (as you saw) Bone Spear on Brand. Unfortunately, Static Field is one that generates from the attacker, like Frozen Orb, Firestorm and I think Bone Spirit too.

[Reelix]

Looking at your list, the on-strike Static-Field Lvl is between 10 and 13.

Now, a Lvl 10 Static Field has a cast-range of 9.3 yards, and, on hell difficulty cannot lower an enemy below 50% health.

Now, on the following image:

http://www.chrisclarke.co.uk/D2stuff/PDFs/Synergy_relationships/D2Radius.jpg

You can see that 9.3 yards still gives you quite a distance between yourself and your target, still making this a useful end-game ability.

This, linked with Obediance's lvl 21 Enchant (Secondary Weapon) (74-97 at lvl 20 - Mainly for the 191% AR at lvl 20) would reduce any Hell-Difficulty creature (Boss Included) to 50% health in no-time :)

[lumpor]

If looking for a ctc assasin build, try the rift-sin

It doesn't use blade fury, it uses dragon talon. But it sprays lotsa frozen orbs.

Sorry to say but, these ctc skills on different weapons will hardly do anything unless synergized. There are a few ctc builds which work (rift-sin, riftadin, bonemason etc.) but they need to be specialized and built correctly, and only a few weapons can be utilized.

Oh, and Jary recently posted a video of his armageddon bear using the destruction runeword at the druid forum.

[Reelix]

Hello lumpor!

"It doesn't use blade fury, it uses dragon talon. But it sprays lotsa frozen orbs."

Doesn't that suffer the same problem (Inability to attack on cast) ?

Oh, and with the "Sorry to say but, these ctc skills on different weapons will hardly do anything unless synergized." I am fully aware you will not get an uber-damage build.

I have been playing the Diablo series for YEARS (I bought Diablo 1 when it first came out), have hit a natural LVL 90 in SP with every Expansion Class, and have been through pretty much every "Uber" build imaginable with most classes.

I am more looking for a unique, out-of-the-ordinary, fun-to-play class that is very rarely seen on the realms, whilst having fun exploring the assorted game-mechanics that cookie-cutter builds won't let you experience. Sure, I could create another hammerdin, and Sure, I could create another Orber, but where's the fun in that? Yes, I'd deal countless thousands of damage in a short-space of time, but so would every other hammerdin and Orber.

How many "Static-Fieldasins" or "Bone-Spearasins" have you seen around the realms?

It's not actually possible, but imagine a Assassin wearing Principle Armour (Paladin Only, 100% chance to cast Lvl 5 Holy-Bolt on striking) - Attack the creature in front of a player with Blade-Fury, and Wham - You have a "Healasin" - Now there's an Oxymoron for you! :p

[Ceramic Weasel]

Doesn't that suffer the same problem (Inability to attack on cast) ?
Zealots and kickers get around it because a Zeal or Dtalon will always complete the sequence regardless of any casting delays triggered in the meantime. The only time it slows them up is between attack sequences.

A lot of people would consider Stormlash as end-game weapon for a Furysin. I'm not a fan, as I said because I'm usually hitting stuff at the edge of my screen with knockback, and CoS makes everything stand around instead of swarming into convenient packs. But it can still be useful if you get close enough, sure.