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Technomancer
30-06-2009, 02:59
New Background:
In his younger days, the Bard travelled the far reaches of Sanctuary as a poet, musician and storyteller. He quite the performer, able to rouse even the most dour soul. He had a restless spirit and lived off the people in the cities and villages through charm and wit until he wore out his welcome, then journeyed on. He was an expert at getting himself into trouble, and just as expert in getting himself out of it, be it through wit, cleverness, or muscle. If his stories were to be believed, he was a renowned hero that had experienced many tragic and comedic events in every corner of Sanctuary. He was also always interested in lore and history, and loved to spend a good amount of time learning the local histories and peculiarities of the places he visited and often, before he willingly or unwillingly departed, knew more about the local goings on than most of the locals did. He loved a good time, and was a regular feature at some of the seedier outfits around.

A small village he visited would change the course of his life however. He fell in love with a local girl, like he did in every town, but this was different. She was someone even his ego would allow him to consider an equal, and was completely smittin. He kept trying to think of excuses to move on, but could never find one quite good enough, so he stayed with her. She eventually became pregnant. His first instinct was to run, but he couldn't. This would become his new life.

Unfortunately, it was not meant to be. She died during childbirth, but he had a new daughter. She was his responsibility, and he took it with pride. He stayed where he was, practicing his arts to the enjoyment of the locals, and was able to hash out a decent and honorable living as a musician and teacher. He raised his daughter until the age of 6, when tragedy once again came to call. Monsters and demons roaming the countryside stumbled upon their village, razing it to the ground, and killing or abducting nearly everyone. The Bard fought well, but was overwhelmed and left for dead. When he came to, there was no sign of his daughter, and only a handful of villagers had survived. Desperate, he chased the monsters into the darkness for days. He found an abandoned camp of the raiders, and with it he stumbled upon a scene from a nightmare. Many of the prisoners had apparently been made snacks... and worse. He found the remains of his little girl there. She fell into the 'worse' catagory...

He never found that raiding party. Some say he went mad after that. He dissappeared and popped up from time to time around the land drunk and spoiling for trouble, never talking about his past. Some people were familiar enough with the local goings on and pieced together who he was, so they tolerated him out of symapathy. When he wasn't brawling in the local tavern, he obsessively buried himself in books and tomes wherever he could find them, the older and more archaic the better. He researched magics and demonkind and forgotten lore better left forgotten. Over a couple of years, he became somewhat more stable, but still very disconnected from people. He liked to spend a great deal of time out in the wild outskirts of towns, hunting and providing for himself, by himself. He privately practiced in the wilds at killing foul creatures up close and from afar. When travelling from town to town, he searched out any beasties he could find to 'practice' upon. At night, people would occasionally hear haunting sounds coming from the woods, and when followed, would reveal themselves as dark, forboding, and unnerving songs, some of which were sung in tongues no one had ever heard.

He knew that people would occasionally eavesdrop on him and something inside of him still missed . One day, a brave little girl came out of the woods that had been listening to his strange music and started bugging him with questions. He tried to run her off, but something about her couldn't let him resist answering her questions. Maybe she reminded him of 'her'. She asked him what those songs were he played, and he told her they were ancient, forgotten songs that had magical powers over the darkness. After other questions, she finally asked him why he was always out here by himself. He reluctantly told her a highly sanitized version of his story. He kept going, and as he did, he added more gusto and flair, with which she was thoroughly entertained. As he finished, the twinkle in her eyes almost made him break down and cry, but he held back. With the innocence only a child could have, she told him that his family wouldn't want him to be alone like this and that he should share his love of them with the world. With that, she left and he could hold back his tears no longer. He never saw her again. He always wondered if she might have really been 'her'...

After that, he finally was able to, no, he HAD to get back on his feet and do something. He was able to perform and again, but now he had purpose. Toughened by his experiences, he set about trying to really make a difference. As he travelled now, he helped people. If they were in trouble, he would give them strength and stand with them against it. If they were lost, he would guide them and see them through. He fought the darkness wherever he found it and inspired hope in the hopeless. He had the strength and abilities now to become a subject of songs, not just a singer of songs, but legacy never entered his thoughts. Perhaps those whose songs were sung never had those thoughts either. One day, hearing of the troubles in Tristram, be it by sword or song or spirit, he set forth to shine light upon the darkness once again. Perhaps he could stumble upon a particular group of nasties again. Now, he was ready for them.

Original Background:
The Bard is an incouragable romantic and braggart that has roamed the far corners of Sanctuary living off of his wit, charm, and deftness, and if his stories are to be believed, he is a renowned hero that has experienced many tragic and comedic events in every one of them. His gallant demeanor and careless abandon hide a tortured soul, however. Having wondered farther than many have dreamed, he has seen the darkness hiding in every shadow and the empty eyes of those who the darkness has touched. He is quite the studious one, having spent a great deal of time researching histories and arcane lore for his art and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge. While he really isn't quite the unstoppable blademaster and marksman his bravado would lead one to believe, he is quite skilled in a variety of weapons. When your mouth can't get you out of a situation, your arm sure better do the job!

While living off the fat of the land for many years, it weighs upon him now more than ever. He felt that his job was to help people through the dark times by just elevating their hopes and spirits, but lately he feels that is not enough. He's grown envious of the Hero's of yore who didn't just bring a twinkle to darkened eyes, but stopped the light from going away in the first place. Whether he truly feels a sense of duty to aid the people of Sanctuary or has just listened to his own stories so much even HE believes them, no one knows but him... or maybe not. Regardless, hearing of the events unfolding in Tristram, the beginning of so much history, he's set out to test his mettle and put his gold where his mouth is. At the very least, he could probably get a good story out of the whole thing...


'Honor' skills: These abilities revolve around the "honor" of combat, both up-close and at range.

Tier I:

Trick Shot: Active. Missile attack. Fires a missile that zig-zags in an ever widening cone away from character, increasing it's area of potential attack.
Dual Wield: Passive. With two weapons equiped, both are used in the time frame of one attack with a speed average of both weapons. Higher Ranks increase accuracy and damage.
Evasion: Passive. Increases the effect of Dex on defenses.
Catch Missile: Passive. Has a chance of plucking or knocking a missile right out of the air, rendering them harmless


Tier II:

Twin Strike: Active. Melee attack. Requires two weapons. Attack using both weapons simultaneously as one blow. All bonuses, damage ratings, etc. are added together and treated as one attack from one weapon.
Strafing Run: Active. Missile attack. While character is walking/running, constantly fires missiles at the nearest foe. (Stolen from the Mentalist. :) )
Parry: Passive. When equiped with two weapons, has a chance of parrying attacks.
Shield Bash: Passive. When attacked, adds a chance to lash out with shield, dealing damage and knocking attacker back.
Missile Mastery: Passive. Increases damage, accuracy, and speed of all missile attacks.


Tier III:

Frantic Assualt: Active. Melee attack. While attack button is held down, each swing hits a different enemy in range, with increased attack speed..
Split Arrow: Active. Missile attack. Fires a missile that upon impact, splits into several more missiles launched at nearby foes that do half original damage.
Ambidexterity: Passive. Increases the attack speed and accuracy of Twin Strike and Dual Wield.
Retort: Passive. When attacked, has a chance of very quickly counter attacking.
Cower: Passive. If using a shield and standing still, the Bard can cower behind it very effectively, increasing shield blocking and absorbtion.


Tier IV:

Dervish: Active. Melee attack. Spins very quickly, attacking a single target several times quickly, the number depends on Rank. When dual wielding, both weapons are used.
Flurry: Passive. On hitting a foe in Melee, has a chance of quickly adding a second attack. That second attack could also trigger this again, causing a chain reaction. When dual wielding, this could result in a barrage of attacks at higher Ranks.
Split Rebound: Passive. Increases the damage done by the secondary missiles broken off from Split Arrow.
Agile Striking: Passive. Adds a damage bonus for Dex to Melee attacks using 1-handed weapons and increases the pre-existing Dex bonus for Missile attacks. Effect increases with Rank.



'Glory' skills: These skills are glorious Songs, that when activated, are sung for a duration. They cost mana only when cast, and can cause a variety of effects on allies or enemies. Songs can be stopped by Silence.

Tier I:

Enduring Chant: Active. Song. Stops the loss of stamina from running, etc. for the user and any friendly units within range. Also decreases the Fury cost for Barbarians skills and increases the speed of regeneration and healing from items/magic.
Penetrating Voice: Passive. Decreases the chance that any Silence effect can affect the Bard.
Silver Tongue: Passive. Increases the chance of effect success for all Songs.
Virtuosity: Passive. Passive. Increases the power of the effects of all Songs.


Tier II:

Aria of Disruption: Active. Song. Interferes with magical energies, decreasing the effectiveness of all enemy hostile magics within range.
Soothing the Beast: Active. Song. Has a chance of randomly causing any foes within range to stop hostile activities for a time, entranced by the Bards singing.
Enduring Vitality: Passive. Enhances Enduring Chant to provide some health regeneration as well.
Counter Verse: Passive. Has a chance of knowing the proper short verse that can counteract the effect of a debuff cast on the Bard. Has a chance of reducing the length of any debuffs afflicting the Bard dramatically.
Inspired: Passive. Decreases the Mana cost of all Songs.


Tier III:

Furious Bolero: Active. A fast, harsh song that has a chance per x seconds of setting any targets within range on fire, causing fire damage for xx seconds. If a target is on fire and gets re-effected, the fire duration is added onto the end of the current fire. Creatures on fire have a chance of igniting those nearby.
Haunting Melody: Active. Song. Increases the connection between this world and the Ether, increasing the effectiveness of allies' spells and decreasing mana costs for skills.
Allegro: Passive. Enhances Furious Bolero, increasing fire damage and adding a chance to stun victims while on fire.
Counter Chorus: Passive. Augments Counter Verse to apply to allies within a Rank dependent radius.
Fortissimmo: Passive. Increases the range of all Songs.


Tier IV:

Heroic Anthem: Active. Song. A song dedicated to glorious victories over evil by legendary heroes. Increases all damages and attack/cast speeds of friendly units.
Hymn of Light: Active. Song. A powerful song from before time. Only affects undead and demons within range, but deals constant damage, slows them, and lowers damage and defenses.
Noble Fortitude: Passive. For Heroic Anthem, adds to the max health of friendly units.
Angelic Voice: Passive. Enhances Hymn of the Light. Has a chance of randomly stunning any applicable targets within range.
Long-Winded: Passive. Increases the duration of all Songs.



'Guile' skills: These skills are based on wit, knowledge, and cleverness. (Some of these skills, like Arcane Lore, depend on certain features being present in D3)

Tier I:

Be the Beast: Active. Skill. The Bards extensive knowledge base allow him to emulate the bahavior of various dark creatures. By dragging a foot, acting abnormally, and making odd noises, he can behave in a way that allows him to blend in with enemies for xx seconds, causing many foes to ignore him at random. Special monsters and bosses are not fooled. Effect ends immediately if character uses any offensive skills. Other players might hate you for using this too much.
Silence: Active. Spell. Silences any targets within area of effect.
Bravado: Passive. The Bard presents himself with such gusto and self-confidence that foes hit by his attacks have a chance of being terrified and running away.
Blinding: Passive. On critical strikes, this adds has a chance of blinding target.
Item Lore: Passive. Has an increasing chance of Identifying items.


Tier II:

Resonate: Active. Spell. Causes an intense sound vibration in an cone area starting at character that stuns targets and causes damage. This spell stays in affect while the mouse button is down and can be re-aimed anywhere. Causes increased damage on undead enemies.
Rogue Element: Active. Spell. Enchants weapons for xxx seconds, adding a random element (fire, ice, or lightning) to each attack. (Idea inspired by/based on NASE's suggestion.)
Barter: Passive. Allows the character to get better prices from vendors, buying and selling.
Arcane Lore: Passive. Increases the effects of any scrolls or books used.
Anatomy: Passive. Advanced knowledge of creatures' anatomies increases the chance of Critical Hits.


Tier III:

Name of Power: Active. Spell. Through studies of ancient histories and texts, the Bard knows much about Demonkind and the power of real names. When used, calls a Demon by a secret name, stunning it or possibly outright banishing it. Bosses are too poweful to be affected by this.
Sop Story: Active: Spell. Tells a story so sad even un-intelligent monsters understand, charming any non-undead/demon temporarily into defending the Bard, causing them to attack other monsters. Has a 4 second cast time and has a chance to effect any foe in range. Has a 20 second cooldown.
Enhanced Resonance: Passive. Increases the width of the cone and the damage caused by Resonate.
Dramatic Flair: Passive. Increases the chance that a foe is effected by Be the Beast. Also adds a smaller chance that special monsters will be fooled as well. Bosses are still unaffected.
Monstrous Lore: Passive. Through close observation and study, the Bard gains a sense of the strengths and weaknesses of monsters. Enhances Rogue Element, giving an increasing chance of triggering the elemental effect that takes advantage of the creatures weakest resistance.


Tier IV:

Accusation: Active. The Bards powers of persuasion are such that he is able to accuse a foe of... whatever... that causes other foes around it to become hostile to it.
True Name: Passive. Has a chance of knowing a Demon's true name. When Name of Power is used, this provides a chance that it's true name will be called, requiring it to fight for the Bard for a period of time. Once this time ends however, the Demon will seek out the Bard, ignoring all other targets, determined to kill him.
Make the Devil Cry: Passive. Adds a chance of also affecting Undead and Demons with Sop Story.
Rogue Burst: Passive. Enhances Rogue Element, giving a small chance of triggering splash damage, affecting any foes adjacent to target. If any points are in this skill, Critical hits will always trigger this affect, assuming Rogue Element is active.


Notes: I got on a kick a few days ago on making my own Bard class cause of another thread, so I thought I'd try to finish it up and throw it up on here to see what people think. I know some people seems to really dislike Bards, so take that into account in your responses if you fall into that group.

This isn't a total end-all be-all, this is mainly to get across the idea. It's light on skills in a couple places like the first tier of songs. And yes, I know a couple skills like 'Accusation' mirrors other skills, that was intentional. I didn't look at any other Bards posted on here cause I wanted it to be as untainted as possible, but there's probably some overlap. I mean, hey, a Bard is a Bard, right?! ::thankyou:

Fan_class:Bard in the DiabloWiki.

peasant
30-06-2009, 03:27
As I've mentioned before, I think the major complaints surrounding songs:

The idea of a character breaking into song in the midst of battle feels a tad bit hokey and perhaps a little too Broadway. Diablo: The Musical anyone? ;)


If sung throughout its effect's duration, it prevents players from listening to the actual score (and possibly other audio cues). If it doesn't, it doesn't really feel like a song/defeats the point of making him a Bard.


Through repeated use, players will eventually grow tired of hearing the same songs over and over again (especially for bread and butter abilities) and might grow annoyed with the songs


On a different note, I feel your Bard's current lore is a tad bit boring/generic. Will see what I can think of to perhaps spice it up a little.

commonhumans
30-06-2009, 05:07
I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on the fact that it is a song.

So what?

Why cant it be like a strum of a few chords on a guitar or a few notes on a flute that act much like a barbarians shout abilities. Just because hes a bard doesn't mean he has to go into long winded solos or 3 hour ballads.

Anyway...

Amazing post Techno, Ill definitely include a link to this post from my new speculation thread. I should have that finished by tomorrow night.

Velhic
30-06-2009, 06:33
Dervish/frantic assault in pvp would own, just stun with a song then assault to the person then dervish and they are D-e-a-d

lunarleif
30-06-2009, 06:40
Honor skills, the first skill is trick shot? Dervish needs a better name. Cowering is also ranked very high in honor based societies.
Silence, silence, I kill you!
Convincing monsters... of whatever...? Sweet, there's gold hiding in that bush under the rainbow but only one monster can get it, so fight!

lunarleif
30-06-2009, 06:42
He just wants to sing, what wrong with that? Anyway, it doesn't have to play music, it could just make musical notes on the screen.

NASE
30-06-2009, 08:30
I like the idea. Perhaps a bit to much focus on songs, it's an action rpg where we don't want support character. But very good anyway. disregarding problems with the effective implementations of the songs, yet we have developers for that right?


One thing that might be interesting to add, just as a flavour is some simple elemental damage. I've come up with this skill for my 'own' bard (although I'll probably never complete him).

The idea is to have one skill that shoots an elemental bolt of all elements. Thus doing fire, cold and lightning damage. And then have a passive (based on the knowledge) that rearranges the damage according to the resistance of the monsters. i.e. a high fire resistant monsters will only get very little fire damage as a large part of the fire damage has been converted to lightning or cold.
Yes, I have already used to skill somewhere else.

Technomancer
30-06-2009, 10:05
@peasant: Yeah, I forgot to mention my idea for songs. I was talking about it in commonhumans thread, and he pretty well summarized it, just have a chord or something short to indicate the song starting and forget actually singing the song for the duration of the effect. And yeah, their all sung, no lute!!

@lunarleif: The "Honor" that's being referred to is from the Bard's perspective, so actually getting your hands dirty in combat is considered honorable by him! :D Dervish is a pretty good description of it, spinning like a madman, slicing a foe to shreds. Maybe Dervish ________?

@NASE: Your right, I actually didn't think of it, but he needs some elemental damage other than the fire song. It could be one of his spells, where through his extensive knowledge of creatures, he knows which element they are the least resistant to, and have a skill/spell that automatically picks the most effective element for the selected target. It would be a more stripped down version of what you're talking about, but would accomplish the same goal.

EDIT: I updated the OP with changes to the Guile tree. rearranged a little, changed the blind skill from active to passive, and most importantly, added 'Rogue Element' to Tier II along with 'Monstrous Lore' and 'Rogue Burst' as passives that augment Rogue Element. This is basically an adoption, in principle, of NASE's suggestion. Since he's used his idea elsewhere, I thought it appropriate to credit him. :)

I also changed the names of a couple songs to Aria of Disruption and Furious Bolero. I thought I did it last night, but overlooked it. You can't imagine how hard it was for me to not name any songs 'Aria of Sorrow' or 'Harmony of Dissonance'!! Those are Castlevania games to those who don't know. ;)

LaZeR
30-06-2009, 15:20
I HAVE read the whole OP, but as usually I got aheadache and forgot what I had read in the beggining.
So I will read the OP again for some more educated comments. For now I have this to say:

1. Very nice job. Very organized, nice description and you can really see the effort and thought you put into it.
2. Shield Skills? Meh. It's really hard (for me at least) to picture this type of char with a shield. Probably you must have them to maintain diversity and not force dual weapon, but still- Meh.
3. Glory skills, AKA Songs, should have buffs, making the Bard the support char for D3. I think it just fits perfectly.
4. Well done Combat Skills. The focus on Dual Wielding is great.
5. I didn't really understand the concept of Guile Tree. I mean, yeah, it's knowledge and clevernse, but you don't get that sense from the skills. It's a nice idea, but I'm not 100% sure it's the way to go for the 3rd Tree.

That's it for now. Better comment will come soon (:

lunarleif
30-06-2009, 16:41
Dervish is a Guild Wars character. I analyze your skills like I generally do later. :)

lunarleif
30-06-2009, 21:11
Round one.
Background needs improvement, as stated by other

'Honor'

Tier I:
Catch Missile: Passive. Has a chance of plucking or knocking missile right out of the air, rendering them harmless.
Would that work if you had two weapons in hand since you can't catch something without a free hand? Or is it that you catch it on shield, armor, or slice it with swords?

Tier II:
Twin Strike: Active. Melee attack. Requires two weapons. Attack using both weapons simultaneously as one blow. All bonuses, damage ratings, etc. are added together and treated as one attack from one weapon.
I thought that the Barbarian's D2 double swing sounded familiar. And D3 has a similar double strike as well.
Parry: Passive. When equiped with two weapons, has a chance of parrying attacks.
Like the assassin's double block.
Shield Bash: Passive. When attacked, adds a chance to lash out with shield, dealing damage and knocking attacker back.
That was a paladin skill. Smite to be exact.

Tier III:
Frantic Assualt: Active. Melee attack. While attack button is held down, each swing hits a different enemy in range, with increased attack speed.
That's good until you get some high hp and damage monsters and your attacking a different one each turn and not killing them very quicly.
Cower: Passive. If using a shield and standing still, the Bard can cower behind it very effectively, increasing shield blocking and absorbtion.
Needs a much better name. It's not cowering if you use your shield well.

Tier IV:
Flurry: Passive. On hitting a foe in Melee, has a chance of quickly adding a second attack. That second attack could also trigger this again, causing a chain reaction. When dual wielding, this could result in a barrage of attacks at higher Ranks.
Nice :)

'Gory'

Tier I:
Long-Winded: Passive. Increases the duration of all Songs.
That's a skill way to low in tier.

Tier II:
Aria of Disruption:
Aria? Aer? Air? Area?
Inspiration: Passive. Decreases the Mana cost of all Songs.
Switch that with Long-Winded perhaps

'Guile'

Tier I:
Be the Beast: Active. Skill. The Bards extensive knowledge base allow him to emulate the bahavior of various dark creatures. By dragging a foot, acting abnormally, and making odd noises, he can behave in a way that allows him to blend in with enemies for xx seconds, causing many foes to ignore him at random. Special monsters and bosses are not fooled. Effect ends immediately if character uses any offensive skills. Other players might hate you for using this too much.
Um, that's going to be a skill I'll have to see. That also smells of spam and would really be annoying for other players.
Item Lore: Passive. Has an increasing chance of Identifying items.
That's cheap.

Tier II:
Barter: Passive. Allows the character to get better prices from vendors, buying and selling.
That's cheap, and DnD to the core. Appraise anyone? I don't want bards to be merchants for everyone else, but that would also make the bard rich :scratchchin:

Tier III:
Name of Power: Active. Spell. Through studies of ancient histories and texts, the Bard knows much about Demonkind and the power of real names. When used, calls a Demon by a secret name, stunning it or possibly outright banishing it. Bosses are too poweful to be affected by this.
Aw come on, not bosses? It would be hilarious, Diablo's true name is *****************************************

Tier IV:
Accusation: Active. The Bards powers of persuasion are such that he is able to accuse a foe of... whatever... that causes other foes around it to become hostile to it.

He Just wants to sing!

Jimbob
30-06-2009, 21:34
Wow, you took your time on this. I appreciate the effort, but I doubt the Bard will get in. If there were about 10-20 classes than it would have a good chance, but there are only 5 for now. The next two classes will be a ranged class and a class that wields a shield and wears heavy armor.

LaZeR
30-06-2009, 22:39
NOTE: This is basically brainstorming, so excuse me if my ideas or out of contex for this thread or highly un-organized.

Well, I have read the whole OP, and I must say I was thinking in other line completely.

Have you ever read the Silmarillion? (Yep, I know it's a bit LotR fanboyish).
Anway, what started to world, according to Tolkin, were Ilúvatar's children. What I thought was amazing was that their main powers and skills were actually Songs. So I started to think in the line of some Epic melodies idea.

OK, that's confusing.
I'll try explaining that in another way- Here's my draft of a Background for the Bard:
Nobody really knows where the Bards came from. They’ve been roaming the land since time began. Some say they are members of a secret Holy clan, old as time itself, sent by the High Heavens to document the history of time. For centuries they have seen time passes, ought never to interfere with its progress. But as late darkness spread, and even the Bards couldn’t ignore the upcoming Evil, one of them set out to be the first Bard to not only watch, but make History on its own.

The main point I'm trying to make here is that the Bard is a Holy char. Some kind of at least. His "Songs" are so great they can do epic things, whether they're peacful or destructive.
That idea led me to constructing the Bard around 3 main elements:
1. Holiness
2. Songs- Both for buff and AeO skills, with both damaging and "peacefull" effects.
3. Melee- I'm torn here between fast, close, small weapo & dual weilding melee to Holy Sword & Shield melee.
4. (?) Enviorment- With a refrense to the Druid, and maybe to the Silmarillion as well, it just fits perfectly (for me) that the Bard will be able to fit and his enviorment and his Songs so powerful he could control it, giving him so kind of Geo skills.

"Scholar" skills are, as I belive I said, a very nice idea, I just can't make skills that follow that concept and feel.

Jimbob
30-06-2009, 22:52
You really like the Bard don't you. It's a playable class in Oblivion, but I doubt it will make it into Diablo. I'm not saying that they can't fit into the universe; I just don't think they will be a playable class for Diablo 3.

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 00:40
@Lazer
You really really want a paladin bard, don't you?
@Jimbob
Stow the comments unless they build. Don't be negative. There are forums for that. If this was a completely stupid post, which it isn't, you could say all you wanted.

LaZeR
01-07-2009, 02:44
LOL I don't really see it as a Paladin Bard but a holy feel just suits my idea of a Bard. And hopefully make the Bard a solution for 3 problems:
1. Support char
2. Holy char
3. Sword & Shield / Fast melee char (depands on which one you go).

Technomancer
01-07-2009, 03:00
MY GOD!! What have I got myself into here?! Haha!! Ok, I'll try to do this in order:

@LaZeR: 1. Thank you! 2. You mirror my position perfectly! More of a technicality than anything. 3. I didn't want to focus too much on buffs so he wouldn't just be dismissed as a 'support char'. 4. I couldn't imagine it any other way! 5. More on that later...

@lunarleif: I don't care if Dervish is a character in another game. It's in a lot of games like the Avernum Series (http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com). I love those games. :) This isn't a class, it's a skill that happens to be closer to it's historical definition than any class I've ever seen. BTW, never played Guild Wars.

@lunarleif pt2: Whew...
Catch Missile could maybe use a more descriptive name, but could just as easily knock it out of the air with weapon.
Twin Strike: Barb is an obstacle, but could have better dual wield skills. Could use work.
Parry: Exactly. That's not a crime. :D
Shield Block: This is a passive, reactionary version. To be exact.
Frantic Assault: That when you switch to a different skill.
Cower: It's playing on whimpish Bardy stereotypes. I thought you'd appreciate that!
Flurry: Thanks!
Long Winded/Inspiration: That might not be a bad idea.
Aria: It's a old term for a type of song.
Be the Beast: I know it could be annoying, but I think the graphic element of a Bard doing a lame zombie act would be PRICELESS!!! Think 'Shaun of the Dead'.
Item Lore: Exactly!
Barter: It would stay at a pretty small rate, but I think it'd be valuable and would highlight his people skills.
Name of Power: I know. I thought it was a cool concept, but was just trying to balance it out.
Accusation: "I saw him helping a little old lady across the trail earlier today. GET'IM!!!

@LaZeR pt2: No I've never read that, I've only read the main trilogy and The Hobbit. I must say, the holy angle, *I* just can't really latch on to that. I mean, I get the approach and see it's merit, but part of the reason I like Bards are their rogue-ishness. Besides, it gives a lot of room for the character to be sneaky, express some attitide like the Wiz, and add some comic relief. Not enough to make it hokey of course, just enough to make it enjoyable. It sounds like you've got a lot of your own ideas, you oughta flesh out a bard too! You can use any of the stuff I put here that you might like. Your approach would be a pretty big overhaul, but there'd be a bit of overlap too. Same goes for anyone else.

@Jimbob: Getting it into the game is beside the point, we're just having fun. I guess it's fun... :D

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 04:56
Yes, I appreciate cower, but that isn't Diablo. I though that people had problems with the witch doctor breathing poison. Poison Spray?
A lot of you have been spouting about some weird poison spray from the mouth. Sorry, but the witch doctor running around spewing on opponents and that being damaging? Hooray! All hail the vomiting witch doctor! Wow, we were calling that thing human? Apparently we have a hunched over vomit spewing class! Also, people don’t like the WD since it’s so inhuman and lacking, and now we start suggesting that he run around with toxic spew attacks? That one spewing game on xgen gives me great images of the witch doctor  The flame idea, of spewing flames I guess is semi okay, but people today do that, so how is that worthy seeing as he can summon a wall of damaging zombies on a whim? Furthermore, how are flames coming out of the mouth even original? This is a game where there can be an all mighty prime evil running around causing destruction, and here we have a witch doctor pulling off a “magic trick”, and he’s supposed to defeat an uber evil.  You guys are better than that.

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 04:59
Yeah, well I saw him help a hero who fell over up! Then decided to help 2 little children get back home.
You aren't paying very much attention to arcane warrior :(

Technomancer
01-07-2009, 08:41
Ugh, I get so sick of the "that ain't Diablo" argument!! I mean laser guns? Now THAT's not Diablo! I think Poison Spray is an awesome skill idea.

You aren't paying very much attention to arcane warrior :(
CUZ I BIN BIZY!! lol! I've been doing this guy, I'm almost done with another, and I've even been brainstorming yet another, that's not to mention my personal life. Too, I think I avoid updating the Arcane Warrior's OP too often cause I need to update the wiki too, so it takes a bit of time. I think she's about done though, I just need to make some final updates/adjustments and I think it's pretty much done. The next class I'm working on is a vastly overhauled variant of the Arcane Warrior, so I'll be putting my efforts there instead for a while. I'll try to update it sometime soon, though.

Oh yeah, and I been trying to replay through D1!! Man, D2 kills it soo bad... Just let me run in town!!!

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 10:19
Let me use the map in town! My first time I spent thirty minutes finding the exit and several times of closing and opening the application :(
I guess poison spray is cool, just don't make it green and don't make it come out of his mouth. I can just imagine, if your going to vomit, vomit on them!
On barb note, bard is an obstacle that must be hacked down to get to twin strike :D With item lore, it sounds like the archivist.

Technomancer
01-07-2009, 10:40
I don't look at it like vomit any more than fire breath would be. I think of it more like Green Dragon breath or snakes shooting venom out of their mouths.

On barb note, bard is an obstacle that must be hacked down to get to twin strike
One word: NINJA!!

With item lore, it sounds like the archivist.
Shh! The Bard is really the Archivist letting everyone know he's actually in a metal band!!

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 15:59
Shh!
That's a bad pun. You didn't catch the barb instead of bard and bard instead of barb.
So, why not use more archivist skills?

GuardianHadriel
01-07-2009, 21:55
singing in diablo III would be more hated than if they threw in a mount for diablo(the mini-unicornpony)

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 22:54
He doesn't have to sing! Verbally at least. You can have musical notes or no indication at all and have the affects appear.
Anyway, a mount would be so stupid, it would be better of making a fallen the main enemy, including hobbits, dragons, and even bringing the archivist back as an april fools joke that it wouldn't be in the game.

Technomancer
02-07-2009, 02:51
- You don't expect a Bard to ever use a pun when it suits his purpose?!
- Yeah, I caught the barb/bard thing, I just don't correct people's spelling mistakes (which is how I interpretted it). I think it's condescending when I already know what they mean.
- I didn't really look in much detail at the Archivist, I wanted to be as un-influenced as possible. Besides, it's a joke class, silly!

- You mean having Big Red riding a... a... whatever? OMG!! I LOVE IT!!!

stillman
02-07-2009, 03:57
Well I like how the OP's class is all over the place so you can design him however you like, defensive, offensive, swordfighter, shield pro, w/e you want from your ragtag bard. It would make for a lot of unpredictable duels, with bards being the troublemakers you can't really adapt to until they kill you a bunch of times first. Not that I'm into bards or anything.

commonhumans
02-07-2009, 04:03
hahahahaha!

Stillman is turning ever slowly to the BARD SIDE. <3

Its okay you can admit it, we accept you.

lunarleif
02-07-2009, 04:08
One of us.

Technomancer
02-07-2009, 11:12
Come to the BARD SIDE...

We have cookies!

And ale!!

peasant
02-07-2009, 14:07
He doesn't have to sing! Verbally at least. You can have musical notes or no indication at all and have the affects appear.
Anyway, a mount would be so stupid, it would be better of making a fallen the main enemy, including hobbits, dragons, and even bringing the archivist back as an april fools joke that it wouldn't be in the game.

That defeats the purpose altogether! The whole point of a Bard is that music is his theme. It'd be like making a Wizard without fancy visual effects. The Bard's most distinctive feature from a audio-visual perspective is his use of music. If you can't hear it at all, then there's no point in having the Bard in the first place. You might as well have a Monk who uses charms instead.

lunarleif
02-07-2009, 21:28
That no indication would be a result of turning off character sound in the settings :D Which I hope exists since I don't want to hear my character, I want to hear the environment, enemies death, and Rakinichu chanting :D
What's wrong with musical notes?
The barbarian, wizard, and witch doctor make noises when they do something, what's wrong with the Bard doing it?

peasant
03-07-2009, 02:24
That no indication would be a result of turning off character sound in the settings :D Which I hope exists since I don't want to hear my character, I want to hear the environment, enemies death, and Rakinichu chanting :D
What's wrong with musical notes?
The barbarian, wizard, and witch doctor make noises when they do something, what's wrong with the Bard doing it?

The problem is that the Barbarian, Wizard and Witch Doctor aren't defined by the noises they make where as the crux of who the Bard is, is focused on music. It's his theme. Therefore, the less it's emphasized or the less present it is, the more you have to start asking why should this class be called a Bard?

lunarleif
03-07-2009, 03:32
Then call it something else that goes along the same line as the bard =)
Still it would be cool to be able to turn off certain sounds =)
The bard wouldn't be much of a bard if he didn't sing, but he could tell stories and bore the monsters to death with them =)
What's wrong with him singing

sirroman
03-07-2009, 03:40
You know... i'm going to paste here what I believe would be a nice bard idea, it's quite different from the Technomancer's and isn't that much detailed (sorry ^^). I will quote my post from the topic "Getting more serious - A speculation thread revisted and more indpeth than ever."

I hope this "cross-topic-quote" works out, here it is!

You know... I thought "meh! when I read the bard thing. Then somebody poinetd out that the druidic "caste" (class? people?) had their own share of bards. And my head exploded with awesomeness. BOOM! ^^

And I read the "here's how a Bard COULD..." topic from stillman and I got some food for thought.

Here's what I figured out after all that:

The "HHaBCWiD3NtIWaBHOot5S" Bard (hehe, the Stillman's one) just can't exist: playing with your voice spells you make him a wizard, actually, worse then a wizard, because Wizards can use orbs and Staffs, Stillmans's bard couldn't use any weapon and would be far apart from the other classes.

So... like a pseudo-wizard, it's out. Like a weapon-less class, it's out.

----

But couldn't a bard get really cool and efficient if we meshed together the Barb singer experience and the Druidic-lore? I say YES!

The D3 Bard would be a nature's priest, one that uses his songs to harvest the nature's power to turn the tide of the battle, one that can touch the inner self of the beasts to ease their wrath, one that can mend the bones of the fallen to get them on their feet, and when it's their soul that is damaged, the D3 Bard is the one to restore their will to battle.

And also a nature's warrior, for the Wild is a place where "the survival of the fittest" is the only rule, and each and every animal is ready to try the Bards' power over them. The bard knows that as the defender of nature AND his culture, he must enforce to protect both of them... and himself.

SOOOOO... I really imagine the Bard more like a half-druid, a class that can both go ranged (hunting), melee (blunt-weapons, spears, shields) and spell-casting (song-based).

He can somewhat shapeshift, for he comes from the same culture of the Druid (D2-LoD), but his shapeshifting isn't "pure", he can't become a full wolf neither a full bear, but he can channel his knowledge to change bits of his human body, grow claws, wings, horns and even a hide... he becomes faster, tougher and stronger.

He could also have minor healing powers, like a ability that enhances the drop of red-dots for all the party, or some kind of holy bolt from close range (he can use herbs, right? ^^).

And then, we could even see him making songs with weapons! What if, when using a shield he taps it with his mace while chanelling a spell? What if he rotates his spear to get that eery song? With small spell, he could turn a bow into a Lyre, even a Harp!

Well... now I'm kind of out of ideas, or I'm just tired to recall them all. What do you guys think?

I hope this doesn't count as some kind of "spamming ideas", if yes... sorry!

NASE
03-07-2009, 08:00
That defeats the purpose altogether! The whole point of a Bard is that music is his theme. It'd be like making a Wizard without fancy visual effects.

The question is, where should this theme be expressed. There certainly have to be a part in his fighting style. Yet that's not all. The main emphasis should be in his conversations with ncp's, his class unique equipment and his class unique quest.

That way, you can already give a high feel of bardism without forcing things that don't really work that well into the battles.

Technomancer
03-07-2009, 08:34
The question is, where should this theme be expressed. There certainly have to be a part in his fighting style. Yet that's not all. The main emphasis should be in his conversations with ncp's, his class unique equipment and his class unique quest.

That way, you can already give a high feel of bardism without forcing things that don't really work that well into the battles.
Exactly!!

Peasant, you're setting up a lose-lose choice: either have music everywhere and that makes it horrible, or don't and it's not a bard. There is a middle ground that works just fine.

peasant
03-07-2009, 15:38
Exactly!!

Peasant, you're setting up a lose-lose choice: either have music everywhere and that makes it horrible, or don't and it's not a bard. There is a middle ground that works just fine.

In my opinion, the class' name should reflect the character's most dominant and visible properties. If the character in question has a 'bard-like' personality but chiefly uses weapons for combat with only minor references to his artistic side, it would be more appropriate to call him a Ranger. Indeed, this can be seen in the game where the Wizard's personality is essentially that of the rebellious youth. However, she's also a powerful magic user. Hence, her she was named the Wizard and not the Rebel/Rogue/Upstart/etc that would have better described her personality.


The question is, where should this theme be expressed. There certainly have to be a part in his fighting style. Yet that's not all. The main emphasis should be in his conversations with ncp's, his class unique equipment and his class unique quest.

That way, you can already give a high feel of bardism without forcing things that don't really work that well into the battles.

How would you propose this be accomplished? It would look and sound really strange if he burst into song or ran off on a tangent about as he recites some long forgotten folktale in mid-conversation. If it's by being philosophical, it would be better named a 'Warrior-Poet'.

I think a better, more appropriate name would be a Cavalier. He'd be an adventurous but educated nobleman (or noblewoman for the female) who thinks highly of himself and frequently draws parallels between his current situation with history and old folktales (both from Diablo and maybe the real world itself) or otherwise narrating his situation in the form of monologues upon entering new zones whilst on quests. It would be far easier to translate this than a minstrel performer who sings songs and recites fairy tales.

NASE
03-07-2009, 20:05
How would you propose this be accomplished? It would look and sound really strange if he burst into song or ran off on a tangent about as he recites some long forgotten folktale in mid-conversation. If it's by being philosophical, it would be better named a 'Warrior-Poet'.

Ofcourse not. Bursting out in song would be kind of stupid, I agree. Yet think about it, bards are good with words. So they can manipulate people easier, making them get information easier/different then barbarians do. Or the way they talk, bards talk like a nobel prize winning book, barbarians talk like I write on these forums.

And then we have side lore (gossip in diablo II). Where his love for music might come up. Assume a night in a town, a barbarian wouldn't stay and listen to an other bard perform (he would go to the town guard and get some stories there) while the bard would. he might even end up in a conversation with that other bard. Something a wizard that might have listened wouldn't.

It's a mood that you need to set. and noting more. And part of that mood can be done between battles. Take forinstance those little phrases characters say in diablo II when they enter a new place. Bards can do interesting things there, much more interesting then barbarians. Or take the inventory, might be different for each class. And barbarians would be basic and to the point while that of a bard will have beautifull decoration, possibly have finished musicpartitures (?) (that finish further as you play the game)...

That in combination with a few bardish combat skills is the way to go in my opinion.

sreda
03-07-2009, 20:29
Of all classes one could possibly muster up in the angel/demon world of Diablo. A bard, a singing man in tights, with a violin.

lunarleif
04-07-2009, 01:33
How about making the bard like the archivist? Someone after knowledge, not song. The middle grounds could be someone who could say words of power. Rather than his magic being arcane, his magic could be of natural or heavenly resources. Therefore it would be different from wizard magic.

peasant
04-07-2009, 03:01
Ofcourse not. Bursting out in song would be kind of stupid, I agree. Yet think about it, bards are good with words. So they can manipulate people easier, making them get information easier/different then barbarians do. Or the way they talk, bards talk like a nobel prize winning book, barbarians talk like I write on these forums.

Surely, you can appreciate that while these might describe the Bard, it isn't exclusively so. There are many others who can be charismatic, good with people and speak in an intelligent manner. For instance, an educated scholar, a rich aristocrat and a virtuous knight would all fit this description.

You should match the character to the personality and not the personality to the character. And it is for this reason that I find trouble with the Bard; I don't see anything about the concept that says 'I can only be a Bard and nothing else'.

Compare this to the announced classes. The Barbarian is well named since he epitomizes the reckless, brute force nature of a person who jumps head first into combat. The same goes to the Wizard who is a powerhouse nuker; frying everything that comes in her path with swaths of magic. And do I even need to go into why the Witch Doctor can only be the Witch Doctor? To me, the idea of a Bard is that of a support character who is never the star star. He's always out there reciting and recounting the exploits of others and never himself.

Technomancer
04-07-2009, 11:16
Of all classes one could possibly muster up in the angel/demon world of Diablo. A bard, a singing man in tights, with a violin.
You know, this gave me a great insight. THIS is why people don't like the Bard, because this is the image that is burned into their brain when they hear the word bard. For the record, as to the bard being described, I HATE THIS GUY TOO!!!!!!

I think this is a lot of not even thinking, just bard = puke = no way. Not just this particular quote, but a lot of the arguments I hear. Bard = puke = no way.

You show me 10 people who would say today that before D2, they thought a Necromancer was a viable, good-aligned, videogame protagonist, and I'll show you 6 liars, 3 crackpots, and one person that actually did. It isn't about convincing people to like something, ahem, "ghey" :D, it's about creating something that isn't ghey, and giving people the opportunity to realize that it isn't. If they put in a Bard and really did it up right, in 5 years, 90% of the people who had a problem with it today wouldn't even remember that they had.

You know, even the lore I put up for this guy is a little stereotypical. I need to re-write it badly, and really 'Diablo' it up.

whitekong
04-07-2009, 19:22
Why not just have him play a very short and quick tune once and have it work as a paladin aura? Plays it when activated then it's done. Just a thought, this way you don't need to listen to an annoying and out-of-place tune while in battle.

Compare this to the announced classes. The Barbarian is well named since he epitomizes the reckless, brute force nature of a person who jumps head first into combat. The same goes to the Wizard who is a powerhouse nuker; frying everything that comes in her path with swaths of magic. And do I even need to go into why the Witch Doctor can only be the Witch Doctor? To me, the idea of a Bard is that of a support character who is never the star star. He's always out there reciting and recounting the exploits of others and never himself.

I see your point. The bard would need a better name. It's too plain as is. When you hear Barbarian or Witch Doctor you think "wow that's pretty bad ***", but when you hear bard you think "meh." If it had a more appealing name it could work.

sirroman
04-07-2009, 19:42
You know, this gave me a great insight. THIS is why people don't like the Bard, because this is the image that is burned into their brain when they hear the word bard. For the record, as to the bard being described, I HATE THIS GUY TOO!!!!!!

I think this is a lot of not even thinking, just bard = puke = no way. Not just this particular quote, but a lot of the arguments I hear. Bard = puke = no way.

You show me 10 people who would say today that before D2, they thought a Necromancer was a viable, good-aligned, videogame protagonist, and I'll show you 6 liars, 3 crackpots, and one person that actually did. It isn't about convincing people to like something, ahem, "ghey" :D, it's about creating something that isn't ghey, and giving people the opportunity to realize that it isn't. If they put in a Bard and really did it up right, in 5 years, 90% of the people who had a problem with it today wouldn't even remember that they had.

You know, even the lore I put up for this guy is a little stereotypical. I need to re-write it badly, and really 'Diablo' it up.

Couldn't say it in a better way.

Against Class Prejudice, vote BLIZZARD!

commonhumans
04-07-2009, 20:37
Whitekong, what would you suggest for a better name then. Heres a lst of what you get when you type in Bard at www.thesaurus.com :

BARD:

Main Entry: bard
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: troubadour
Synonyms: minstrel, poet, balladeer, rhapsodist, strolling minstrel, versifier

Main Entry: poet
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: person who writes expressive, rhythmic verse
Synonyms: artist, author, bard, dilettante, dramatist, lyricist, maker, writer, balladist, librettist, lyrist, metrist, odist, parodist, poetaster, rhapsodist, rhymer, rimer, sonnetist, versifier

Main Entry: prophet
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: person, thing that predicts future
Synonyms: astrologer, augur, bard, clairvoyant, forecaster, fortuneteller, magus, medium, oracle, prognosticator, reader, seer, soothsayer, sorcerer, witch, wizard, auspex, diviner, druid, evocator, haruspex, horoscopist, meteorologist, ovate, palmist, predictor, prophesier, seeress, sibyl, tea-leaf reader

Technomancer
05-07-2009, 23:17
I added a new LONG lore section at the beginning of the Bard OP. I was gonna post it last night, but the power went out. I had just saved for the first time a couple minutes before that too!!

I tried to make something darker that would give the Bard a more Diablo-ish background. I dunno, I think it's pretty good.

peasant
06-07-2009, 00:03
Reading the new lore, the first thing that cross my mind is that it is very melodramatic; take that how you may. One criticism I have is that it goes into great detail about the character's past where as I feel that if a Bard should indeed be included, s/he should keep his/her mystique. Offer glimpses, of course, but not reveal everything. As the old adage goes: Always leave them wanting more. ;)

Technomancer
06-07-2009, 03:26
Well, it was very explanatory to try and get the point across that a Bard can be dark and fit the themes of Diablo. It probably wouldn't be as explicit in a final form, but I just went and didn't stop till I was done. Bits of it could be revealed talking to certain NPCs or in certain events, but that's the overall picture. It could be broken up on the front end. It's about the idea.

sirroman
06-07-2009, 05:12
Well, it was very explanatory to try and get the point across that a Bard can be dark and fit the themes of Diablo. It probably wouldn't be as explicit in a final form, but I just went and didn't stop till I was done. Bits of it could be revealed talking to certain NPCs or in certain events, but that's the overall picture. It could be broken up on the front end. It's about the idea.

I liked it. I would go for a bit more "guilt" and make him even darker (MHUAHUAH), but that's just fine.

Don't you think that this new Background doesn't match with a "double wield" character? It fits with "melee trickster" but the new BG makes him a lot more "squishy": he didn't train his combat abilities, instead going for Spellcasting.

Technomancer
06-07-2009, 10:41
I was afraid I might have dropped the ball on the darkness angle in the last paragraph or two, but my storyteller head got in the way. ;)

Actually, the original never really explained the dual wield stuff either!! Well, maybe a little. I dunno, I was trying to go after the battle skills becoming more advanced during his "dark times", but yeah, it's tenuous.

Technomancer
08-07-2009, 03:16
Well, I updated the lore again, I added some text to paragraphs 1, 4, and 6 to try and toughen him up a bit. I'll try to do some skill updates soon.

squid knight
08-07-2009, 08:59
You know, this gave me a great insight. THIS is why people don't like the Bard, because this is the image that is burned into their brain when they hear the word bard. For the record, as to the bard being described, I HATE THIS GUY TOO!!!!!!

The bard would need a better name. It's too plain as is. When you hear Barbarian or Witch Doctor you think "wow that's pretty bad ***", but when you hear bard you think "meh." If it had a more appealing name it could work.

My first encounter with a bard class was in Ragnarok Online, and that's who I think of when I think 'Bard'. In RO you had to first become an archer and then transcend into bard-hood, and so the Bard was a support class with archery skills. I think a bard, done right, can be pretty badass.

I still picture this:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/juanico/bard.png?t=1247036084

A bard need only be a storyteller or a musician. His combat style can be anything quick and agile, anything from a thief to an archer.

Technomancer
08-07-2009, 11:19
OP update:
In the Glory tree:
Added a note that songs can be stopped by Silence.
Changed Inspiration to Inspired because Inspiration is a Barb skill name.
Swapped Virtuosity and Long-Winded because passives that increase power of a tree is generally Tier I
Added Counter Verse, Counter Chorus, Penetrating Voice, and Silver Tongue (which is a split off from Virtuosity).

In the Guile tree:
Added "Causes increased damage on undead enemies." to Resonate.


Is that a picture from RO? It reminds me of Final Fantasy Tactics artwork? FFT is one of my favorite all-time games. Totally underrated, but I'm sure action junkies wouldn't approve. The Bard class was kinda lame in it though. Oh well, Move +3!!

lunarleif
12-07-2009, 05:46
No guitars! though that would be a cool way to beat enemies.

NASE
12-07-2009, 09:24
as we are throwing out pictures anyway. Look at this post in an other bard topic.
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7042283&postcount=13

LonelyAnon
13-07-2009, 08:01
Regarding the above pictures, something about the chick with the razor violin bow just screams VAMPIRE to me. Doesn't mean she's not a bard though.

peasant
13-07-2009, 09:54
Lol! A vampire bard... just what we needed. :whistling:

Technomancer
13-07-2009, 10:56
Those pics are just awesome, particularly the girl with the bloody bow! I didn't think vampire, but that guy behind her with the scythe gives it a pretty macabre feel.

Vampire Bard... I wish I still had people to play D&D with... :D

I could also throw in my white robed, lawful-evil necro that has a pet skeleton rat on a leash that he walks through dungeons with while whistling bawdy tunes. The skellie rat always walks in front in case any tricksy Illusionists try to get clever. ;)

sirroman
22-07-2009, 07:41
as we are throwing out pictures anyway. Look at this post in an other bard topic.
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7042283&postcount=13

Awesome pics! Didn't see them before.

Those pics are just awesome, particularly the girl with the bloody bow! I didn't think vampire, but that guy behind her with the scythe gives it a pretty macabre feel.

Vampire Bard... I wish I still had people to play D&D with... :D

I could also throw in my white robed, lawful-evil necro that has a pet skeleton rat on a leash that he walks through dungeons with while whistling bawdy tunes. The skellie rat always walks in front in case any tricksy Illusionists try to get clever. ;)

Come to my country and we will play. :wave:

Once I "made" a kobold necro that had a skeleton minion that used a Robe (making impossible to see the undead inside), and the kobold necro acted as if he was the "familiar" of the skeleton. The DM let me control the skeleton telepathically and simulate the Castings and all.

Unfortunately by then we never had time to really play that adventure. =/

Technomancer
22-07-2009, 08:31
Once I "made" a kobold necro that had a skeleton minion that used a Robe (making impossible to see the undead inside), and the kobold necro acted as if he was the "familiar" of the skeleton. The DM let me control the skeleton telepathically and simulate the Castings and all.

Unfortunately by then we never had time to really play that adventure. =/
That is awesome! I wish I thought of that!

That was always the problem with the people I gamed with, we couldn't keep things going. Then the people who could and would play were the munchkins with a "castle on the 666th layer of the Abyss", etc. ;) After I quit playing a with couple guys, I heard later that they had level ~80 characters and artifacts and crap. Yeah, level 80 in AD&D 2nd ed.!!! I could have killed them all with a naked level 20 wizard cause I actually knew what I was doing.

Technomancer
17-08-2009, 10:39
This class appears to be done, more or less, and I went ahead and added it to the wiki: Fan_class:Bard

Thanks to everyone for their input and heated discussion! ;)

Edit: For the win, Antonia Banderas in Desperado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperado_(film))!