Geomancer- Help?

[LaZeR]

Well, I've been thinking of a Geomancer as a class idea, but ran into a problem-

How will it be handled? I mean, spells can't be varied by enviorment, cause that's too complicated.
And Tree can't stand for Suroundings (like Forest, Sand etc) cause using a Forest skills in a Sand enviorment will look wierd.

So basically the Tree should be like Elements- Earth, Wind and Water (?). That's nice, but too much of a Sorc/Wiz.

Any suggestions here?

[Leord]

Well, they will only have so many surroundings. It could be the same spell with a little varying graphics, like a cactus in the desert, a thorn in the forest, and some strangling vines in the jungle?

[lunarleif]

You could have him summoning geological spells upon environments. Earthquakes, floods, fires, rain, freezing, summoning mountains, calling forth hot springs, etc, could possibly make the consistency of spells. It also need a better name.

[Technomancer]

I've wondered about this before and it's a pretty complicated fit. You could partially fill it with earth or stone based spells that are pretty much usable anywhere you can walk. Umm, you could have air skills and make it "uber" by having a flying skill where maybe you could have additional skills only usable while flying. Umm, I'm not sure if water skills would really be feasible since there isn't going to be water everywhere like earth and air. Of course, you could just suspend reality and summon a flood from out of nowhere! :D You could also have plant based skills, but I think that's already taken by the Witch Doctor. It could also be cool to have skills that would produce different effects in different environments, but it could complicated to design. I think this one would have to be done pretty out of the box, but it could be really unique.

[lunarleif]

You could use air to force opponents back. Rain would summon water, which could then be used. We're also dealing with the element of magic...

[paperkut]

Maybe the Geomancer could use potions to throw at the ground to create pools to cast out of (kind of an alchemist twist).
Take water for instance. The Geo could toss out a potion of water. It hits the ground creating a pool. The Geo can then cast from the pool of water. Casting would exhaust the pool, while upgrading it would make it last longer.

You could also do this for earth (pool of dirt) and fire (probably just flames on the ground).

[LaZeR]

OK, let's get everthing clear:

1. I'm not asking for skills ideas (for now).

2. Skill that change by enviorment are out. Too complicated design.

3. My main question is how will the Char work/How will the Trees be disturbed?

EDIT
4. Water Tree or skills are probably out of the question, since what kind of damage will they do? There's no Water Elemental damage and I don't want it to be Ice damage so it doesn't become a new Wizard. It can be physical damage but I don't really like that for some reason.. =S

The most interesting comment was by paperkut-
Summoning a Geo "pool" which you use to cast your spells. Very interesting, but too complicated IMO for diablo. I mean, it's more like a simple "shoot shoot" games for me at least.
Disagree?

[lunarleif]

You could have a earth and fire, lightning and air, and one that combined all of them?

[Technomancer]

Mmm, playing on paperkut's idea, you could open some sort of elemental conduit that would stay with your character, and spell could be cast from there. One thing I've noticed from making classes is that with any one idea, it seems like there are only 2 trees worth of stuff. To get a good skill tree arrangement, it may help to add an extra characteristic to the character. You could have an Earth tree, and Air tree (could include cold skills as well), and a 3rd, different kind of tree that exploits that extra characteristic.

[LaZeR]

You could have a earth and fire, lightning and air, and one that combined all of them?

Lightning and Fire IMO are too close to the Wiz and WD.
That really leaves a big question about the third tree..

[sreda]

Well, I've been thinking of a Geomancer as a class idea, but ran into a problem-

How will it be handled? I mean, spells can't be varied by enviorment, cause that's too complicated.
And Tree can't stand for Suroundings (like Forest, Sand etc) cause using a Forest skills in a Sand enviorment will look wierd.

So basically the Tree should be like Elements- Earth, Wind and Water (?). That's nice, but too much of a Sorc/Wiz.

Any suggestions here?

Hmm, a geomancer is like a more specific elementalist. The sorceress already covers the elements so if you're going to have a geomancer he's going to have to be more than just a geomancer ;P. But I'll give it a try.

Ideas, lets see.

Skill Ideas:
Brambleskin (Aura/Passive)- Your allies and you reflect a % of the dmg you take back at your enemy.
Branchwood Armor - You take 25% less damage from all attacks and spells, fire spells deal 15% more damage and leave a burning effect.
Nature's Grasp - Call fourth subterranean tree-roots that entangle and harm your opponents for a duration of time.
Heart of the Woods - Increased health regeneration rate for 30 seconds.
Symbiosis - A portion of all health regenerated is given to your mana pool. A portion of the damage you take is dealt to your mana instead.

I was thinking he would be a caster/melee type of class. This is just stuff I made up on the spot.

[lunarleif]

What you could do is make the Geomancer a druid, sorceress, elemental, and summoner. For example, you could have earth and water skills in one tree, which would slow and stop, elemental summoning skills in another, and offense boosting ones in another.
You don't really need water, as you can summon it while casting the spell.
In the elemental tree, you could summon elementals, boost them, and perhaps become an elemental as well.
I don't really know that much about offensive boosting skills involving geology, but oh well.

[LaZeR]

Nah, a whole Summoning and especially Offense Boosting Tree is not D3.
Instead, I think you should add summons and boosts to his Geological Tree.

Anyway-Come on people! Help me find that last Tree!
Maybe a little Skills-Brainstorming will help. Lets see:

Earth
Earthquake
Gazer
Mud/Roots
Summon Golem
Sand Storm
Eruption (Volcano)

Wind
Gust
Fog (basic attack)
Eagle (Wind missile)
Hurricane
Telekenesis
Wind shield (reflect projectiles)
Vortex (sucks enemies)

Anyone cares to join me?

P.S- Didn't think the skills needed descriptions.. They're pretty clear

[lunarleif]

I think they could use description if only tier level and type of attack and whether or not it affected all players. Also, what about mentioning if they're passive?

[lunarleif]

In wind will there be a air elemental like there is in Earth?
Sandstorm is a combination of earth and wind if you care.
Telekinesis is mind not air.
Wind shield could be a passive that affected others to add that affect so that vortex, hurricane,eagle, messed up respective projectiles.

[akatsukimem]

for me, i think he/she would have:
earth,sand and metal skill trees:

for the metal skill tree
he could have:

iron golem (i mean come on,that skill was so cool)
spiked carapace-you reflect a % of the dmg you take back at your enemy.
iron skin (don't got a good name yet)-it is an aura that icreases defense for you and your party similar to the paladin's aura
and for the others.well...i'll try finding more

and for earth skill tree:

earth barrier-creates a wall that blocks enemies and attacks.but when the wall takes enough damage the wall will fall down on the enemies.the height and amount of damage taken increase per level.
rock toss-could be his first skill.basically,you toss a large rock at an enemy and deals damage to nearby enemies.

last but not least...the sand skill tree:

sand cocoon-cover yourself with sand that still takes yor form that reduces damage done by enemies by % and absorbs damage taken
quicksand-summons a swirling vortex of sand below your enemies that sucks them down.slowing and damaging the per second

well,thats all i got,post if ya like :)

[Technomancer]

Yeah, that 3rd tree is the killer! I know it's not very D3, but having a combat tree seems to be the obvious solution. I always viewed Geomancers to be warriors too. I know that's not a very satisfactory solution, but you could set things up like that to begin with, get some skill ideas laid out, then cut across the trees and recombine them into trees that don't focus on one particular skill or element, but more on a type of effect consisting of any of the 3 original trees. Maybe up-close, ranged, and special effect trees?

[Summoned]

Yeah, that 3rd tree is the killer! I know it's not very D3, but having a combat tree seems to be the obvious solution. I always viewed Geomancers to be warriors too. I know that's not a very satisfactory solution, but you could set things up like that to begin with, get some skill ideas laid out, then cut across the trees and recombine them into trees that don't focus on one particular skill or element, but more on a type of effect consisting of any of the 3 original trees. Maybe up-close, ranged, and special effect trees?
A combat-based tree is entirely possible. A Geomancer sounds like someone who can create some kind of shield of rocks around himself/herself for extra protection and add extra oomph to attacks, maybe even turn a melee weapon (i.e. a maul) into a gigantic ball of rock that pulverizes a pack of enemy with melee attacks. The tree can focus on different melee attacks and element-based enchants for weapons and armor. For example, Earth enchant on weapon would make it hit harder with area effect (possibly stun) but attack more slowly, Wind enchant would make it attack much faster but only hits a single target.

@LaZer: I hope by "gazer" you really mean "geyser".

One of the better earth-type attack I've seen from other games so far has to be "Stone Curse" (Rage of Mages, really old game), which turns enemies solid for a duration. Give it a decent cooldown so it can't be spammed in PvP and call it good. :)

[LaZeR]

Well, my suggestion were obviously misunderstood:

1. Yep, I meant Geyser not Gazer
2. All skills are actives, effects can be changed. It's more for the overall idea.
3. Why Combat based Tree? That's, again, not D3. Want a big bad melee Geomancer? Just implent melee friendly skills in other Trees, like the Wiz have. Stone Armor, Wind weapon etc.
4. Telekenesis is the best name I could think of for "moving stuff without touching them", but instead of using your mind you use the Element of Wind (wind moves stuff too, you know).
5. I didn't want to be resticted to traditional Earth skills. I mean, Earthquake, Boulder- obvious. Instead, Earth, for me, respresnt all Earth types- The includes Sand, Lava etc, which also gives the Tree different types of damage besides physical.
6. I think giving each tree a Wind/Summon Elemental summon is very unoriginal =/
7. Regarding Metal as a 3rd Tree: I think Metal is included in Earth which I grasp as a much bigger concept than traditional Earth, but rather all kinds of soil and land.
8. I wanted to make Earth first skill Earthquake rather than Rock Toss for example, despite its huge epic potential, to remain in Blizz idea of making 1st tier skills usefull and cool for the whole game.
9. Rock Barrier, which I think sounds better as Cliffs, is a GREAT idea for a Wall skills. Nice!

Good work people, let's keep going- Any more suggestion for skills/last Tree?

[PReP]

4. Telekenesis, i get your idea, but it has to have another name since the word in itself implies using the mind in a way :)

7. I don't think a metal is an element by itself, but a created compound :)

[lunarleif]

6. I think giving each tree a wind/summon elemental summon is very unoriginal =/

True, though what Blizzard could make elementals would be awesome. That's beside the point, then what about golem you posted in a previous post?

[LaZeR]

4. Telekenesis, i get your idea, but it has to have another name since the word in itself implies using the mind in a way :)

7. I don't think a metal is an element by itself, but a created compound :)


4. Agreed.
7. Taken into consideration.



True, though what Blizzard could make elementals would be awesome. That's beside the point, then what about golem you posted in a previous post?



I should have emphasized it- I meant giving each tree an Elemental summon is unoriginal. Feels very D2- Same skill, but with different type of elemental damage. Giving only 1 Elemental summon to 1 Tree is O.K IMO.
And I agree- I would be VERY awesome. Maybe the Elemental shouldn't be an Earth Golem, because that's too boring and already-made..

[lunarleif]

Plus the Earth elemental probably wouldn't be the coolest. Water would be, but that's off limits. So saying, a wind elemental would be cool and would be able to deflect range attacks perhaps, which would be awesome!

[lunarleif]

Also, does anyone mind if a compile all the skills stated and make descriptions. And no, I'm not going to make them as long as the witch doctor ones :) I got carried away :banghead:

[Technomancer]

3. Why Combat based Tree? That's, again, not D3. Want a big bad melee Geomancer? Just implent melee friendly skills in other Trees, like the Wiz have. Stone Armor, Wind weapon etc.
My point wasn't to have a combat based tree in the end, but just use it as a means to brainstorm ideas, then break it and the other 2 trees completely apart and reorganize them into 3 completely new trees consisting of various things. Just an idea.

[lunarleif]

There will be no skill trees, just overall element. 2. All skills are actives, effects can be changed. It's more for the overall idea. I’m going to ignore that.
None of these are my skills. Each one has its own respective creator. I only fleshed out details.
Water
Flood
High tier, active, and Aoe skill. Summons a flood that comes from off the screen that lightly damages but moves opponents in the direction of water. Critical causes the opponent to get carried away by the flood, period.
Rain
Low tier, full screen, and an active semi-passive. Summons rain which heals allies, reduces fire damage and freeze time to allies, and can be enchanted with other skills to deal damage.
Hot Spring
Low Tier, active, and Aoe skill. Summons a geyser that deals fire damage. Critical causes a huge steam burst which melts opponents by melting their skin, flesh, then bones.

Air
Aerial furry
Medium tier, active, and Aoe skill. You summon winds furry and make a river that pushes enemies back and deals light damage. Critical blows them off the screen or into something.
Eagle
Low tier, active, and single opponent. You call an eagle which damages an enemy. Heat seeking. Critical causes the eagle to carry the opponent off.
Hurricane
High tier, active, and Aoe. You form a hurricane which knocks opponents back, deals wind and water damage, and critical causes the opponent to spin up the hurricane, finally throwing the opponent far.
Slam
Medium tier, active, and single target. You use wind to pick an opponent up and slam them down. Critical causes them to break upon impact.
Aero shield
Medium high tier, passive, and targets you. Deflects a percentage of projectiles. Affects other wind skills like hurricane so that they can deflect projectiles.
Vortex
Low Medium skill, active, and Aoe. Sucks enemies into a vortex, which then throws them out at the end dealing damage.

Earth
Lithosphere (Plate tectonics, which form mountains)
Medium or low tier, and active. Summons a mountain to block the way of others and damages those under it and pushes them off. Critical causes the mountain to become volcano.
Nature’s Pull
Medium low tier, active, and single target. You summon tree-roots that entangle and harm enemies. Critical causes the roots to form cocoon over opponent.
Sand Storm
High tier, active, and full screen. Summons sand that reduces visibility, applies 50% accuracy, 10% damage, and 25% defense decrease to opponents. Also deals damage. Critical causes opponent to be sanded away.
Carapace
High tier and passive. Blocks a percentage of damage, and reflects a smaller percentage of damage back.
Earth barrier
Low tier skill, active, and Aoe. Summons a stone wall that blocks enemies and attacks enemies. If enough damage taken is destroyed. Critical causes an enemy to become part of the wall like Pirates of the Caribbean Davy Jones ship, boosting the health of the wall.
Rock throw
Low low tier skill, active, single target. You toss a rock at an enemy damaging them.
Quicksand
High tier skill, active, Aoe. Summons a swirling vortex of sand that sucks that toward the center slowly but does good damage.
Earthquake
High tier, active, and Aoe skill. Stuns, slows, and damages opponents for medium damage. Critical causes a fissure to open underneath an opponent, swallowing them.

Other

Symbiosis
Medium tier, active passive, and targets you. A percent of health regenerated is added to your mana pool and damage dealt is inflicted upon mana.


Earthquake and flood are almost repetitive. As are some of the other skills.

[lunarleif]

Is that short enough?

[LaZeR]

OK, @lunarleif can we please stop with the double posting? That's confusing.
@Technomancer- Oh, I misunderstood. Ofc there will me Melee Goemancer skills. Why wouldn't there be? Why would he be resticted to range only? Even the Wiz has some bad melee skills.
@ lunarleif- It's short enough. But not organized enough. Try using "Enters", Underlines, and Bold to make things more read-able.
And really, I don't think those skills need descriptions. Their effect are pretty clear and your descriptions are actually TOO over-done sometimes (Crit hits get sucked to the Earth Barrier? That's just too complicated).

OK, I'm close to finish our Geomancer. However, suggestions are still welcome.
For now, here are the progress of the Geomancer

Type: Caster
Main thing: Geo skills
Problem: Lack of different types of elemental damage for Geo skills (What damage is Water skills, exactly?)
Solution: Multiple elemental types for each Tree, not just common
Trees for now:
Earth- Physical & Fire & Poison damage
Wind- Physical & Fire & Ice damage
Problem 2: 3rd tree
Solution: Yet to be known. Water is a problem for 2 reason: 1. Can't think of skills other than Flood and Water Elemental. 2. Which type of damage will Water skills do? Physical is ove-used and Ice is in Wind Tree.

[Technomancer]

Well, ice is water, cold is air, maybe you could have cold affects like chilling auras or affects in wind and actually have physical ice shards/blocks/etc. in the water tree. Other water skills could be like 'Sink', where you turn the ground to mud in a certain area and monsters get stuck in it. I dunno, water skills are pretty difficult, aren't they?. :D

[akatsukimem]

hey,lazer dude,why can't metal be a skill tree?
oh and lunarleif...
YOUR A 2-FACED SACK OF S**T WHO STEALS IDEAS
FROM OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!!!!:xxx:

[LaZeR]

I don't want Water skills to be too much Ice(y) because that wat\y the Geomancer will become too much like the Wiz.

akatsukimem- I don't think lunarleif "stole" your ideas, he just put all of the suggestion in this thread to 1 post.
And Metal isn't the best Tree IMO because: 1. As said, it's not an element by itself, but a created compound. 2. Metal just seems too much related to Earth. Earth Tree can have Metal skills for sure, but a whole Tree for them?
But maybe try it out, make a Metal Tree and prove me wrong (:

[Technomancer]

One problem is trying to work around the Wizard's Storm tree!! That should belong to the Geomancer!! :D

I was thinking too that Wind should have lightning attacks, but I know that the Wiz looted lightning spells pretty bad.

Hmm, I just had an idea. I don't know if it's a good idea, but it's an idea. You could try mixing elements for each tree, like have a tree that's earth/air, another that's air/water, and another that's water/earth. The first could be like sand, fire, and dryness. The second could be fog/mist, cold/ice, lightning (damn you Storm tree!!), and waves/flooding. The third could be crystal, mud, poison, and plants (maybe). You could then add combat skills throughout in thematically appropriate areas. I dunno, just a thought.

@akatsukimem, yeah, lunar wasn't trying to steal, he was just trying to organize the ideas that had been proposed thus far.

[LaZeR]

Mixing elements is nice, but how?
I can't throw a random "Poison/Earth/Ice" Tree. The elements in each tree must have somthing in common.

And yeah, working around the Wiz Storm Tree is the most difficult thing in planning the Geomancer- With some Ice and Light spells this would be a piece of cake.
That is the main reason I want none (or minor) Ice/Lightning skills in the Geo's arsenal.

[lunarleif]

@akatsukimem
I apologize for whatever I did, which is? I'm not stealing ideas if that's the problem, just organizing them so that you don't have to take notes on 4 pages to realize all skills mentioned in general. Oh, and I'll fix it so that it gives credit.

[akatsukimem]

ahhh,sorry lunareif.i couldnt resist saying that.when i first heard it on a show i watched last tuesday it made me laugh like a hyaena lookin at his own reflection.....eh never mind that lunarL.peace dude...:wine:

[Technomancer]

what I meant was to have a tree that is earth/air that would have skills in it relating to sand, fire, dryness, etc. and any physical skills that may seem appropriate to that idea. Then, have an air/water tree that does it's own version of the same and a water/earth tree that again does it's own version of the same.

I was just trying to get out of some pre-conceived notions in the wee hours of the morning... ;)

[LaZeR]

EDIT: Well, I do think this is an amazing idea, but then I tried it out.
Some spells, like Sand Storm, are easily put (Earth/Wind for sure). However, what about Earthquake? Or Eruption (D2 Druid's Volcano)?

This is a pretty difficult system =S

[Technomancer]

Yeah, I know it's pretty messy. I just said it was an idea, not a good one!! :D

Umm, Eruption, well, there's Geyser, that would fit. Mmm... Earthquake... you got me! Earth/water since it makes the ground act fluid-like?! IDK!!!

LOL!@

[lunarleif]

If fire was included, that would help with earthquake. Is fire going to be in this? Or does the witch doctor or wizard have exclusive rights to it?

[Technomancer]

Well the Wizard really doesn't have any real use of fire (might be a skill or two, I don't remember, still makes my point) and the WD has very limited fire skills, so I figure a class has to really utilize fire. I don't really think of fire when it comes to a Geomancer though. I think of fire as an energetic state more than a core element, alchemists be damned. It IS a gaping whole waiting to be filled though, so idk...

[LaZeR]

Fire, I belive, will be the WD domain. I might be mistaken though.

And I agree, Fire isn't very Goemancer-like, and I thought of it as more of an add elemental damage to different Geo skills- Like Eruption (Summons a Volcano which deals Fire damage), Firestowm (Wind skills which deals Fire damage) etc.
Again, more an add than actual Skills.

P.S

I'm still having a REAL hard time distibuting skills to Trees.
I've tried Earth/Wind, Wind/Water, Water/Earth- And got stuck with a lot of skills the don't fit anywhere and even more that really barely fits.
I've tried, inspired by the Wiz- a Conjuring (more summoning Elements, like Hurricane and Volcano), Spells (the more basic head on spells like Boulder Toss) and Environment (the more "control your suroundings" spells like Cliffs and Geyser)- But came into a problem which skills goes where? I mean, where is Sand Storm? Conjuring or Environment?
I've tried the basic Earth, Wind and Water Trees- And ran into the same obstacle of a whole Tree (Water) and most of the whole Geomancer char doing only Physical damage.

So come on people, anyone has some breakthrough abouts Trees? Or at least some new ideas for Skills?

[lunarleif]

Why do the skill trees have to be elemental? They could be something else. Earth and wind could make swift, wind and water could make time, and water and earth could make trap.
Swift would have attacks that strike quickly and deal light damage, but have effective effects within themselves.
Time would be fun since you could also play around with the element of time as well as water and wind. Both water and wind take time to do damage, so that would also make sense.
Trap would be filled with things like geyser etc.
This is not completed, but it's to give ideas of what you could use.

[LaZeR]

Intersting, but Time is a bit too Wizardy with her Slow Time spell. Again the Wiz ruins for the Geomancer =/
And why would Wind and Water skills take time to do damage? =S I mean, why not Earth skills? Or skills from the Traps or Swift Tree? You mean like the Tree will be focused on Spells that do damage over time?

[lunarleif]

The way I see it is that in nature, water and wind take time to cause change. Wind slowly erodes.
Aetas (Time)
I know that the wizard sort of stole the whole time thing with her time orb or whatever, but she doesn't have a full dedication to time.
Once skill could be to speed all spells cast in that tree up so they casted faster, went faster, but cost more mana.
You would also have the stronger items of wind in this, along the aerial furry, hurricane, and Aero shield.
Along the water part you could have flood, and it helps with the hurricane part.

[Technomancer]

Hmm, I'm doing another crazy brainstorm session here. ;) Buckle your seatbelts...

I was thinking about a Shaping tree that has skills that actually transform and manipulate elements like a golem or Aero Shield. A second tree would be Nature's Fury that triggers and takes advantage of natural phenomena like Earthquakes or Sand Storms. As for the third tree, I'm not sure, maybe an Infusion tree where the user actually transforms himself into, aspects of himself into, or exhibit traits related to various elements, like Carapace, or to make a couple of my own suggestions, Mistform, Stonefist, or Earth Travel that acts as a teleport, but dissappears into the Earth and pops out elsewhere. Does that seem to all work out better?

[LaZeR]

Let me see if I get the Trees right:
Shaping- Is like Creation? Skills that create Geo "things" rather than using them?
Nature's Fury (Nice name ^^)- Is the opposite of Shaping: Skills that uses Nature's directly.
Transformation- Some sort of Geo-ShapeShifting?

The only problem I see is in Transformaion Tree- Is sounds too much of a Passive tree and bit like the Shaping tree.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[lunarleif]

Technomancer, that sounds like the druidic bard.

[Technomancer]

Yeah, Shaping would be directly taking raw elemental materials, manipulating them, molding them to your needs, or creating something from them, then using them. Things like golems, stone projectiles/pillars, flying objects, mud traps, etc.. Nature's Fury just conjures or triggers natural events like floods or storms or earthquakes. Infusions could be considered shapeshifting in a sense. You would channel elements directly through yourself and equipment, either for defense, attack, or actual shapeshifting. I was thinking this would be where a lot of the actual combat skills would be placed, too, centered around the elemental stuff. Like you could also have active attacks like sending an arrow superfast, attacking with the speed of the wind, striking with the force of the earth, etc. . There could be a little perceived overlap between Infusion and Shaping, but I think it could be sorted out. Just an idea.

Technomancer, that sounds like the druidic bard.
Well, there isn't any bard in it, but druids are something of geomancers themselves, so there isn't too far to go away from them really...

[lunarleif]

Does anyone mind if I compile what people have been saying since my previous post, cough akatsukimem? It would include time, shaping, nature's furry, and infusion to create a new model?

[LaZeR]

Does anyone mind

I don't mind...

[lunarleif]

Not all of these, and most of them aren't, my idea. Thanks to Technomancer, etc for content.
Anything lacking a description has one in previous post.
Shaping
Aerial Furry
Eagle
Slam
Aero Shield
Vortex
Earth Barrier
Rock Throw, too generic.
Nature’s Pull
Quick Sand, should it be in Nature’s furry? Don’t occur much naturally.
Nature’s furry
Rock slide, revised rock throw, summons a rock slide.
Earthquake
Hurricane
Lithosphere
Flood
Rain
Hot Spring
Sand Storm
Infusion
Carapace
Symbiosis
Mist. You summon mist at destination and dissolve into mist and travel there.
Windspeed. Increases speed of attacks by small amount and missiles by a large amount.

[Technomancer]

I didn't come up with any skills! Well, sorta the mist thing... I think swapping Quick Sand with Lithosphere would fit a little better, but otherwise that's a pretty good grouping for my tree idea. I knew it'd be kinda light on Infusion, let's see if I can come up with some...

Gale Shot: Active missile weapon attack that launches a missile with such force, it causes greatly increased damage.
Mud Flesh: Passive. When attacked in melee, has a chance to cause foe's weapon/claw to get stuck, causing a cooldown time before it can attack again.
Stonefist: Active spell. Causes hands to turn to stone, giving melee attacks much more force (damage) for duration.
Errant Breeze: Passive. When attacked, has a chance to turn to air quickly, dodging attack.
Stone Shot: Active missile weapon attack. After launch, the missile turns into a large stone hurtling through the air, damaging any foes in it's path. Damage is based on weapon damage, plus skill bonus. (This is here instead of Shaping tree cause it actually enchants a weapon.) (Could be a replacement for Rock Throw.)
Boulder shot. Passive. Increases the size of the stone from Stone Shot, increasing damage and the width area where it can hit foes.
Gale Strike: Active Melee attack. Flies into air and dives at target, causing big damage.

I thought it could be a good place for more combat skills. Just some ideas.

I was thinking too that it's too limiting to throw out cold and lightning cause of the Wiz. Same goes for fire damage, just have them in there, but not as a particular focus. I think there should be a handful of skills that may add those. Like Rain, there was talk of it being augmented by other skills, maybe have a passive called Thunderstorm that makes lightning hits foes at random when rain is active and another called Sleet that chills enemies at random when Rain is active. On that train of thought, you could also have Acid Rain that would cause random poison damage to foes.

[lunarleif]

Gale shot and gale strike?
Errant breeze sounds like Aero shield. Except melee instead of ranged. Maybe combine them?
Gale strike sounds like slam but you do the slamming.
Oh, and fire is Witch Doctor's domain :( Other characters are stealing, they aren't good people!

[lunarleif]

Hm, what about an attack that goes fast enough it causes vortexes in its path?
We have a whole bunch of geological stuff, it seems wrong not to have tornadoes...
I thought that rain would be cool. It would be cool to augment like your phase knight has with burn, jolt, and frostbite (?).

[LaZeR]

I was thinking too that it's too limiting to throw out cold and lightning cause of the Wiz. Same goes for fire damage, just have them in there, but not as a particular focus. I think there should be a handful of skills that may add those. Like Rain, there was talk of it being augmented by other skills, maybe have a passive called Thunderstorm that makes lightning hits foes at random when rain is active and another called Sleet that chills enemies at random when Rain is active. On that train of thought, you could also have Acid Rain that would cause random poison damage to foes.

This brought me an amazing idea- General spells with Elemental Passives.
For exmaple, you have a general Rain skills and multiple Passives/Actives skills that changes it's apperance and effect- Adding Lightning, changing it to Fire/Acid Rain etc etc.

But then I remembered- Skill Runes.
That's basically the same mechanic. Damn you Skill Runes! =/

[Technomancer]

@Lazer: DAMN YOU BLIZZARD!! They have to ruin everything!!! lol! Nah, I think there's room for this approach. That could be good to fill up some skills. I wouldn't throw out the idea over skill runes. I think they'll do a variety of different stuff, and there may not be as much overlap as you think.

@Lunarleif: Errant breeze would be a passive, just like some of the Zon evasion skills. It would work in addition to Aero shield against any attacks.
Gale Strike: EXACTLY!! :)
Fire is the WDs domain?! He's got like 2 fire skills!! C'mon! I mean, with this approach, no one else can do any kind of elemental damage at all!
That vortex spawning skill idea sounds cool! Maybe a missile attack? Actually either makes sense.

[PReP]

hey,lazer dude,why can't metal be a skill tree?
oh and lunarleif...
YOUR A 2-FACED SACK OF S**T WHO STEALS IDEAS
FROM OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!!!!:xxx:

Metal is not an element, neither are plastic or a chocolate-sauce ;)

[lunarleif]

So what would the vortex do? Would it be able to suck in missiles from other sources? Take the projectiles then throw them back with low accuracy? I think it would be cool to have it as a magic projectile. It would be cool looking with a tornado condensed into a small area or something along that line. Would it stay in place as long as you held the mouse down or would it vanish.

[Technomancer]

Well, it could easily cross paths with the Wizard skill, but you could have it to where any missiles that come near the vortex get thrown into random directions. It could knockback enemies in random directions. I was thinking that the weapon attack could trigger a vortex, then it would just travel around for a short duration or something. Of course, it could do damage too.

[lunarleif]

Would the vortex be a tornado or a condensed missile? Something that follows a wavy line and striking instantly or almost so. Also, if it was an melee attack, how would that play into the physics?

[Technomancer]

Well, I figured that the vortex(s) would just fly off from the weapon and go on about their chaotic way. I dunno, it was your idea! :)

Also, I've been wondering about a new class of skills that utilize natural patterns and energy fields to produce effects. Could have skills that utilize magnetism, gravity, or the interactions between this world and the Ether. That could also be included with time skills. It's somewhat inspired by ideas from Alchemist classes I've seen, but could be handled differently or have different effects.

[lunarleif]

Hm. Well, that completely helps make vortex real. Instead of a wind vortex it could be a magnetic one :) Furthermore, if you are using ranged attacks, magnetism would help explain how you could summon everything back. Gravity would be fun, effects like making everything heavy so that opponents move slower or making it lighter so you could move faster and or allow projectiles and weapons to move faster. I think I'm going to update the tree again in a previous post to incorporate these ideas.

[lunarleif]

Gale shot also sounds like an attack that would fit a ranged attack character more.
Mud flesh needs better name.
Stonefist would be cool as gravity punch, sending an opponent flying by first making gravity lesser so the punch goes faster and making the gravity under the opponent more so they take the full impact of the blow or make the gravity less and send the opponent flying.
Stone shot has the same problem as gale shot and being overly stereotypical on a small skill plus that seems a bit blunt.
Gale strike would be a bit annoying to enemies and it seems like a over powerful teleport skill. Then once you reduce the range, you have the problem of dealing massive damage. Meanwhile being invulnerable in the air. Then you have the deal of needing a cool animation to make it not annoying, though that won't be a problem for blizzard.

[Technomancer]

Mud Flesh was just a stupid <insert real name here> thing :D
Galestrike is like a faster Barb Leap Attack with different movement, bonuses, etc. I don't see how that could be overpowered.

[lunarleif]

Wizard has teleport and Barbarian had leap. Teleport didn't originally deal damage and leap attack didn't deal to much damage. Meanwhile, galestrike would be teleport plus high damage. How wouldn't that be better than both?

[Technomancer]

Why shouldn't it be? Maybe have a higher mana cost?

[lunarleif]

Hackers delight :)
That makes things interesting. Another comment is that it makes the character less mobile.

[theeliminator]

From what I have seen from most of this post, what makes the Geomancer any different from a Wizard? It just has different spells but the theory is the same. If you want to make it stand out how about this.

The Geomancer has a Shapshifting tree one that has 3 forms in it. One could be Clay, another could be Rock, and the 3rd could be Iron.

Another Tree could be Mophin his arms into different weapons. (think Clay face from batman or the Marauder from Warhammer online)

The final tree could be about Earth manipulation, in this tree you could have your standerd spells.

[lunarleif]

Clay=Rock. Rock=Iron. Think ^2.
Mophin? or Morphing?
Why just Earth manipulation, unless you are referring to all elements of planet Earth.
Another thing is your comparing sorceress to geomancer, not wizard :nono:
Furthermore, wizard has arcane and storm power in basics, and most of these are neither of what the geomancer shows except for the occasional flood and hurricane (I think).

[theeliminator]

Clay=Rock. Rock=Iron. Think ^2.
Mophin? or Morphing?
Why just Earth manipulation, unless you are referring to all elements of planet Earth.
Another thing is your comparing sorceress to geomancer, not wizard :nono:
Furthermore, wizard has arcane and storm power in basics, and most of these are neither of what the geomancer shows except for the occasional flood and hurricane (I think).

Clay is a lot softer then Rock and Iron is harder then Rock.

Yes i meant Morphing.

When I say Earth manipulation I mean all the elements of the planet.

I compare a wizard to this geomancer in play style. But there are other comparisons you can make between the 2. The wizard can cast Fire and Ice spells.

So when making another spell caster you want to keep the spells from being redundant.

[lunarleif]

Iron is found in rock, and clay is a type of rock. I get your analogy, but would you come up with something better named? Using the actual element of Earth rather than just rocks and metal.

[theeliminator]

It was a suggestion, you could make it what ever. If you didn't want just materials you could say Water form, Lava form, Air.

[Technomancer]

Actually, the Wiz uses lightning and ice, no fire.

I think I meant to include shapeshifting when I mentioned my infusion tree idea, but I forgotted. ;) I think elemental forms could be cool, but they should be very different. I would probably go with transforming into an Elemental. Maybe have Earth, Air, and (BIG MAYBE) Water Elemental forms. Water would be the most awkward to make sense skill-wise, but Earth could add defense and damage, while Air could increase evasion and attack speed. They could have primarily combat benefits, but could enhance appropriate elemental damages too.

I wonder about the attack skills (assuming there will be attack skills). Should there be melee AND missile focus, or just one of them? I've been thinking that maybe focusing only on melee skills would the best, since the magical aspect would deal ranged damage. A word of warning though, I've got the Final Fantasy Geomancer archetype stuck in my head (namely from FF Tactics), so my opinion on the matter may be corrupt. ;)

So what are the possible skill groupings so far? I guess the 'Air, Earth, Water(?) trees' thing is a no go? Well, the primary skill types seem to be natural disasters/phenomena and elemental manipulation/effects, with more minor skill ideas being elemental transformations/shapeshifting, combat (melee and/or missile), and maybe manipulation of natural energy fields/forces. That seems like a lot to work with! Unless there are more ideas, I guess the main thing is to figure out how to group things into just 3 trees, and what if anything would need to be cut out or made very minor to fit into the limited space/catagories.

Hmm, there are a lot /'s in that last paragraph... :)

Actually, now that I think about it, there could still a place for 2 of the trees being Earth and Air. I think that, somehow, there may now be too MANY ideas to fit into one character! :D If all of the above categories were gonna be included, each type would probably need to have a more limited footprint in the skill spread.

Another thought about Sand-Storm. Just count it as Air elemental and be done with it!! The sand makes it seem Earth/Air, but it could be sand or it could just be debris and still have the same basic effect.

[theeliminator]

Not true, the Wiz has a few fire damage spells, Hydra, and meteor to name 2. And there maybe more on the way as far as we know.

For me I kind of like the idea of there being melee and ranged attacks, mostly because you don't want to pigeon hole a player.

I think there is two ways of going about making the trees, one would be to split the trees into elements the other is spliting the trees into play styles.

[lunarleif]

I think that the elemental idea, as stated previously, is unoriginal and or weird and or not Diablo 3.

[Technomancer]

Lunar, you don't think anything is Diablo! ;)

Where did Lazer go?

[lunarleif]

Elementals? There is no real reason they should be in Diablo 3 unless you bring in a new class that explains the whole reason of bringing them in. Furthermore, they just don't seem gloomy enough and if anyone should have had them, it would be the witch doctor or have been the necromancer with his golems.
Technomancer, why do you keep changing your picture?
Where did Lazer go? Did he abandon this post?
Maybe he's making a different post with all of our input and making the real class.

[theeliminator]

I think that the elemental idea, as stated previously, is unoriginal and or weird and or not Diablo 3.

This statement doesn't make much sense, how can something be unoriginal and not Diablo? You would think it would have to be one or the other.

I am not sure its even possible to make something truelly original, its always going to be a variation of something.

I think the class could be cool with some work

[Technomancer]

I think you're misunderstanding what I mean by 'elemental'. I'm not saying 'summon an elemental to go around and beat stuff up', I'm saying 'YOU turn into the elemental and beat stuff up'. It'd be a transformation, not a summon/minion.

I dunno, I just keep changing it until I find something I like. I had an animated one that I wanted to use (Fizzgig from 'The Dark Crystal'), but they don't allow animated avatars. I like this one better than the first two.

[lunarleif]

Then you have the problem of having a skill tree either committed to a whole ton of transformations or active skills like the druid, but then you run into the problem of having the high percentage of passives required to have that, as is the form of Diablo 3 currently.

[Technomancer]

Why would you have to have a whole tree dedicated for just a couple skills? Besides, there was talk of an infusion or elemental channeling tree where they'd fit perfectly. Or, if there was an air tree and an earth tree, each could be in their appropriate tree. Just brainstorming a pool of ideas to work from. Like I said earlier, I don't think there is enough room to totally fit all the ideas that have been collected so far anyways. Becoming an Elemental may not make into a final cut of the class, but that doesn't mean it's a meritless, out of place idea.

Besides, I'm basically just suggesting different elemental versions of tier 4 skills in 2 of my Arcane Warrior trees. I think they make more sense here than they did there.

[theeliminator]

Then you have the problem of having a skill tree either committed to a whole ton of transformations or active skills like the druid, but then you run into the problem of having the high percentage of passives required to have that, as is the form of Diablo 3 currently.


What I was saying was that each transformation form would have its own tree, and each tree would have its own play style. Eg: Rock could be mostly about Melee, Air could be mostly about ranged, ect.


Why would you have to have a whole tree dedicated for just a couple skills? Besides, there was talk of an infusion or elemental channeling tree where they'd fit perfectly. Or, if there was an air tree and an earth tree, each could be in their appropriate tree. Just brainstorming a pool of ideas to work from. Like I said earlier, I don't think there is enough room to totally fit all the ideas that have been collected so far anyways. Becoming an Elemental may not make into a final cut of the class, but that doesn't mean it's a meritless, out of place idea.

Besides, I'm basically just suggesting different elemental versions of tier 4 skills in 2 of my Arcane Warrior trees. I think they make more sense here than they did there.

I just worry that by having to many ranged spells you run into the class being redundant with the Wiz and WD already primarily ranged caster characters. Your right though we are just brianstorming a pool of ideas, some ppl will like some things and not others, and other ppl might hate what you liked and like what you didn't. Its really just the nature of the beast.

[Technomancer]

I just worry that by having to many ranged spells you run into the class being redundant with the Wiz and WD already primarily ranged caster characters.
I was getting that feeling too, that's why I wondered about focusing his combat skills on melee and not missiles. Make him something of a melee caster split with range magic, like a reverse of the Wizard.

[deathbykittens]

you could have something like d2 necromancer's bone armor where you could summon different armors according to your tree and the energies of the orbs could be harnessed, some spells would take 1 some 2 of the orbs the orb spell would be on tier one of each tree then the trees could be nature, water, stone. stone has different passive abilities that increase your defense while that set of orbs was active or if in water, you could freeze, debilitate, and spear your enemies, and on the problem of there not being any water, there is water everywhere, in the air, in the ground and in the molecular make up of everything, including the blood and fluids of the human body, and in all life, so that shouldn't be an issue, nature would have different spells like a ranged attack called thorn or summoning cactus golems or somesuch

i think a more appropriate term for this class would be alchemist, for they strive for the knowledge of the stuff that makes up the universe and seek to control it.

[lunarleif]

Tree skills air, rock, etc, resemble the sorceress's cold, fire, and lightning trees a bit much in the way of names. That also makes the geomancer sound like an elemental warrior.
Deathbykittens, what do you mean by orbs?
Stone being passive makes a tree of passives which doesn't work, golems have been brought to bear by the necromancer, and water is to general and wouldn't work well with a nature tree as that would mean that they would coincide to much.

[deathbykittens]

if you've played a lvl 66+ shaman in Wow you have an ability called water shield or earth shield for the restos, or even the lightning shield, or in d2 the assassin's move that charges up after each hit, that's the kind of animation, so like a charge system, say you cast your orb spell it gives you 3-4 nature orbs (floating around you), you come to face a skeleton and you cast a ranged attack that costs one nature orb , then you have 2-3 orbs left to use on other spells, i know this could get to be a hot key battle but i think it sounds like a very intuitive and new way of battling:scratchchin:

and on your comment about nature coinciding with water,water would use water spells exclusively and not with nature spells coinciding. I think they should be trees that work well together, like as in a dual spec from wow, because, truly how many people in d2 ever make a split, two tree of any class, and i think it would be interesting to see how it would work out even if it never made it to beta.

[lunarleif]

That orb system sounds suspiciously like the barbarian's furry system.

[deathbykittens]

no, not each time he/she is hit, they have to cast a spell to summon the orbs, not the times they hit, just the same animation

[lunarleif]

So you summon your mana? That sounds weid... Also sounds annoying and waste of time since you'd see a battle and then summon your orbs and obliterate. Furthermore, that's pretty limiting for a geomancer. Maybe it could be optional and make casting faster/stronger/better or attack faster/stronger/better.

[deathbykittens]

yeah that might work, or maybe you could only cast 2-3 powerful spells and that would consume the armor and it makes all the spells you cast while its active, do more melee damage for earth, make water spells more damaging, and for nature they could summon more per spell like the thorn projectile, it would summon 3 thorns that would fan out in a cone, and instead of summoning 1 thorn elemental, it would summon two, but i think the thorn elementals'('s) life should be limited like the treants for the balance druid in wow.

ps. did you see how we seem to be the only ones posting here anymore?

[theeliminator]

I really like the orb idea, not as a way to get mana but maybe as a way to cast spells. Lets say one tree is all about summoning orbs and every time you get hit it castes one of the spells. You could do more with it I think.

[lunarleif]

A retribution thorn character? Sounds like suicide and would make for lack of balance since you'd want to get hit in order to do damage.

[theeliminator]

A retribution thorn character? Sounds like suicide and would make for lack of balance since you'd want to get hit in order to do damage.

But that would be original and fit to the D3's theme of running head long into groups of enemies.

[lunarleif]

Then you have the problem of if someone would hit you, does it activate? Or do you have it set to where it only activates if you get hit? That seems semi-pointless since if you're fighting a noob, you don't get hit and don't activate anything. Also, if you get 95% resistance, do you still activate if you get hit for 1 damage that becomes no damage?

[theeliminator]

I would say you don't need to take damage for it to activate, as long as they connect the orbs activate. On top of that you can activate them yourself if needed.

[lunarleif]

Ok, that sounds okay. I thought it would make a tank character since you'd be trying to get hit and be ready to deal with a lot of damage. If you can activate them yourself, that also sounds cool and maybe they have different effects depending on which happens. For example, you have a missile orb that shoots a missile. If the enemy destroys it, it heat seeks to hit the enemy going through walls, etc. If you activate it, it follows the mouse. This isn't real world example.

[theeliminator]

See now your thinking. I think you should make up a skill tree.

[lunarleif]

Alright, any ideas from the creator? Modified skills previously posted or what?