View Full Version : Will Diablo 3 Support TCP/IP play?
Death And Taxes
25-06-2009, 02:59
:whistling:Ive been reading about Diablo 3 and so far ive read that Diablo 3 will not feature a multiplayer option other than Battle.net. This is extremely aggrivating and frustrating considering your basically forcing people to play on battle.net or hack the game to be able to play through a lan/multiplayer not on battle.net.
For something so easy to implement why not? Not to mention in Diablo 2 you guys kind of screwed over single players by
1.) not enabling a legit way to be able to do the Pandemonium event in the game. Why shouldnt you be able to do pandemonium event in single player? You guys make the keys drop, its not like it would be hard to do.
2.) Not letting single players be able to make ladder only runewords unless they use a mod, once again, why not? Do you have any idea how much ridiculously more difficult it is to even make those runewords single player yet alone legitly* aqcuire all the runes?
So keep those in mind for patch 1.13 but i personally no that if Diablo 3 doesnt feature TCP/IP play i wont be buying it.
The original word back in 2008 was that there would only be battle.net
However, blizzcon 2009 is coming soon and chances are the minds may have changed.
What is the issue with playing on battle.net?
Maybe they dont want people playing over LAN to prevent people from downloading it instead of buying? If you cant play any kind of multiplayer without cd-key, more people are gonna buy the game?
If this is the case, then i completely understand why they dont want LAN.
What is the issue with playing on battle.net?
I see this question often asked when someone simply wants to state their preference for LAN. I'm always confused by this question.
Shouldn't be a good question too, "what's wrong with LAN"? I mean, all that is being discussed is a personal preference towards LAN. And sometimes not even that. Sometimes what people are stating is their desire for having a LAN option to complement other game modes, like SP or battle.net. Why is that this always put battle.net players on the defensive really confuses me.
...
Personally, I have nothing but sore wounds from online gaming. I strongly dislike large communities of gamers. They seem to attract the worst kind of people or turn otherwise intelligent people into their worst. This may sound too bleak and unreal. But the fact is that especially on games the likes of Diablo that tend to appeal to a huge audience, gaming communities provide horrendous social experiences.
To find those few pearls of wisdom and sanity displaying coherent speech and gaming ethics is a long, lonely, and frustrating experience. Some of us simply don't want to bother with that. It's got to do with the size of our stomachs. And mine's particularly small and weak. I also have zero tolerance for asinine immaturity, or social failures releasing their real life frustrations online. I can't help it. It's rigged into my genes. I avoid these people in real-life and sure as hell I don't want to have to deal with them on an environment that was created supposedly to be fun.
My refusal to play on battle.net is not an active criticism of battle.net. It's instead the result of my own limitations. I understand perfectly this is the way things are. I've been playing games since the 80s. I was playing online games on the BBS long before the internet even existed in our homes. I got to say that things were slightly different back then. Heck, they were different 15 years ago! We had our share of problems too, sure. But nothing to the extent of what I see and have experiencing on the later years. And I've grown much older too. Less prepared to handle the new generation that is taking my place on online gaming communities. It's just the way things are. And I understand it.
...
So when someone defends their desire to have LAN play, they aren't necessarily poking battle.net with a stick. There's many reasons for someone wanting LAN play that have nothing to do with battle.net existing or not. LAN is as different from battle.net as SP is different from LAN. These are all different game modes, offering gamers with different experiences. They aren't comparable between themselves.
In battle.net.. you can make a private chat room and private games.. which means you have a LAN game with chat room. You won't ever have to be in contact with other people and they don't affect on your gaming in any way. Only problem is if you have a bad internet connection..
D2 and battle.net 1 isn't so great at the moment though. The community sucks because the game is old and all the mature people have left to other new and better games. Also the server infrastructure is old and I believe some duping "organizations" are lagging the servers even more to create dupes and what not.
D2 used to be great community back in 2000-2002.. especially if you played hardcore which even now is somewhat ok at least in classic side where there is really only a small bunch of players.
I have high hopes for D3 and the new battlenet bringing good online experience and community.
However, blizzcon 2009 is coming soon and chances are the minds may have changed.
What would lead you to that conclusion?
The lan discussion is the discussion that never ends.
What is the issue with playing on battle.net?
Mostly for me it's the internet requirement. When I've played in LAN with my friends we don't always have an internet connection depending on where we are. It would just make things harder and limit the locals we can use. Second thing is lag for me. I hate it and I don't want to have anything to do with it if I can avoid it.
Death And Taxes
25-06-2009, 18:03
Well to answer some of the replies:
Maybe they dont want people playing over LAN to prevent people from downloading it instead of buying? If you cant play any kind of multiplayer without cd-key, more people are gonna buy the game?
If this is the case, then i completely understand why they dont want LAN.
Kind of strange thats the case because in EVERY game that kind of stuff happens with people cracking games and making cd key gens, not to mention i just went and bought another copy of the game so i could play with my wife on OUR lan.
What is the issue with playing on battle.net?
What isnt the issue with playing with battle.net? I can play multiplayer games with people where I just wanted to maybe knock out some baals, you got bots, people duping, hacking, PICKIT, hostile pk'ers who can kill you without your consent, rude and immature people who think theyre tough because they cuss you out in a game, horrendous lag. You ever wonder how that many people legitly have all those high runes to make all those runewords, one answer , they DONT. When i can get lag playing a game by MYSELF in battle.net, you got problems, and its definately not the hardware either.
In battle.net.. you can make a private chat room and private games.. which means you have a LAN game with chat room. You won't ever have to be in contact with other people and they don't affect on your gaming in any way. Only problem is if you have a bad internet connection..
No it doesnt mean you have a lan game with a chat room. Lan means Local Area Connection, you cant have that over the Internet, Have you ever even played a single Lan game in your life by chance? Its a completely different fun experience having people beside you in real life as you both play through the game. Its far more enjoyable then playing multiplayer in battlenet, not to mention almost lag free. And furthermore , what if i didnt have an internet connection?
Galtrovan
25-06-2009, 18:29
However, blizzcon 2009 is coming soon and chances are the minds may have changed.
Not likely.
Not likely.
Blizzard has always been a company of listening to what the fans have to say. I've seen enough around on Diablo 3 forums that the fans want LAN available...
This is just an opinion though. If Blizzard decides no LAN, then no LAN. Welcome to battle.net everyone.
Tanksaabas
25-06-2009, 19:11
It makes me sad that the option for tcp/ip is probably lost. It wont make me play on bnet though.
It makes me sad that the option for tcp/ip is probably lost. It wont make me play on bnet though.
It's still early to say. The official statement from Blizzard through the words of Bashiok was:
"We currently have no intentions to allow LAN games, we are focusing fully on Battle.net, where we not only have the ability to quickly connect with other players, but also to the Blizzard community."
Nothing more was said about this and it wouldn't be the first time a decision changed based on community feedback. Hence, the "currently".
If Blizzard decides no LAN, then no LAN. Welcome to battle.net everyone.
Not me. Nope.
And I'll be waiting for the LAN hack...
LordOfStrategy
25-06-2009, 19:22
Let me share an experience of mine which illustrates why LAN support for d3 would be desirable.
While I was enrolled in boarding school, most ports required for online gaming and game related websites were blocked by the school's network. The only way I could play the likes of Diablo and Starcraft with my school mates was through LAN. My chars I played with weren't my mains; I still had my real chars I played back home on the bnet servers.
Not everyone has access to the resources needed to play on bnet. Out of those who do, not all of them always do. Restricting TCP/IP or LAN play would let down these players.
There will be grand incentives built into the new bnet, making players choose to play over bnet even with the ability to play over TCP/IP or LAN (when possible). If not, then Blizz's order of business should be to create these incentives (which I believe do/will exist), not take away choices from the players.
Puckineh
25-06-2009, 19:40
I think the most irritating thing is LAN is already supported. they had people playing via LAN at the last blizzcon. so i guess they figured their situation with a bunch of people in the same room playing together warranted a LAN connection but us the folks who play the game and buy multiple copies would never have 2 computers in the same room playing together so we don't need that option
ElSmisko
25-06-2009, 19:54
My thoughts about this topic:
If I don't have a high-speed connection but say dial up/modem I won't really be able to play online.
If I gather a few friends to play even a moderately good connection might not be good enough for 3+ games to be running at once.
"Your connection has been interrupted." ... surey you must all acknowladge this to be a problem with battle.net ...
That said, I've played battle.net for a very long time and like it and I do not want to lose it.
But sometimes it just can not compare to LAN due to lag that "slows down" what is happening on screen, interrupted connections, "frozen" games that start moving again just in time for you to see your character getting killed in hardcore.
Personally, I hope the "lan hack" is implemented in the retail version even though I would probably be playing ~80-90% of the time on battle.net.
lone_wolf
26-06-2009, 18:20
[Akse] In battle.net.. you can make a private chat room and private games.. which means you have a LAN game with chat room. You won't ever have to be in contact with other people and they don't affect on your gaming in any way. Only problem is if you have a bad internet connection..Talk about beating on a dead horse.
No it wont mean we will have access to lan game with a chatroom it will mean that we are forced to play with each other via a server that can be several thousand miles away. Add to that that we will share that server with more or less a million other people. One thing is for sure we wont have a lag free experience no mattter the hardware.
For that matter there still exist place in this world where you wont have access to the net in anyway at all. Or as others have brough up the connection can many times be limited by the isp or for example the university you attend.
Its not like you can just wals into the many server room there and ask them to open up a few ports for you so you can play games online.
As for other people affection how we play well they do unless you keep you chars compleatly isolated from any other gamer on bnet forever you will be affected by them.
Its one of the main reason a few off us would not though bnet even if we had a 1000 mile long stick to poke at it. For that matter you will be affected by the other people on bnet no matter how you do. Or have you people forgotten why the ladder where made in the first place? or ruststorm?
:whistling:Ive been reading about Diablo 3 and so far ive read that Diablo 3 will not feature a multiplayer option other than Battle.net. This is extremely aggrivating and frustrating considering your basically forcing people to play on battle.net or hack the game to be able to play through a lan/multiplayer not on battle.net.
For something so easy to implement why not? Not to mention in Diablo 2 you guys kind of screwed over single players by
1.) not enabling a legit way to be able to do the Pandemonium event in the game. Why shouldnt you be able to do pandemonium event in single player? You guys make the keys drop, its not like it would be hard to do.
2.) Not letting single players be able to make ladder only runewords unless they use a mod, once again, why not? Do you have any idea how much ridiculously more difficult it is to even make those runewords single player yet alone legitly* aqcuire all the runes?
So keep those in mind for patch 1.13 but i personally no that if Diablo 3 doesnt feature TCP/IP play i wont be buying it.
If you don buy d3 it will be one less whiner to deal with :) Build a bridge and get over it. LAN play was made because active high speed internet was not as easily accessible as it is now. If you are going to play single player, and you want all these things, your more than likely going to cheat anyways, I wold like to see you find your own Zod to make a botd! But seriously if yo choose to not to buy the game because there will be no lan play, that would be the dumbest thing i ever heard.
SlechtWeerBeer
26-06-2009, 18:40
If you don buy d3 it will be one less whiner to deal with :) Build a bridge and get over it. LAN play was made because active high speed internet was not as easily accessible as it is now. If you are going to play single player, and you want all these things, your more than likely going to cheat anyways, I wold like to see you find your own Zod to make a botd! But seriously if yo choose to not to buy the game because there will be no lan play, that would be the dumbest thing i ever heard.
Creatively acquiring the game (and possibly a LAN hack) would make more sense if you're just in for SP and dislike Blizz' choices, imo.
lone_wolf
26-06-2009, 18:49
Ishtor funny i feel the opposite. I dont have to deal with immature crap in single player. When i am just trying to enjoy playing a game i have brought and play it through in my own pace. That is i am actually playing through the whole game and clearing all areas from monsters as i do so. Strange huh i even enjoy playing in act 3.
as for cheating well the fun thing about cattlenet is that i dont even have to use the cheats myself others do it for me that is why it would take me about say 14 days to be fully gearted up with the most ridicolous runewords on bnet without breaking a sweat.
While on my own i actually have to *gasp* run some areas over and over to get the gear i want:crazyeyes:
so instead of doing mayby 5k runs at Lower Kurast and other places to get what i want i could just hop onto cattlenet and say give some people these "very hard to find" pgems and suddenly i would be swimming in HRs. Not my idea of a game where the hard to find stuff is actually hard to find but mayby you want everyone and their aunt running around with enigma etc in no time.
Death And Taxes
26-06-2009, 21:13
Ishtor * Its people like you that make me play single player, where we have to work for everything we have legitly. And i take that as an honor to say we are not "Tainted" as the likes of people who play on battle.net , or hack.net or crap.net w/e you would like to call it.
Its funny you say a BOTD runeword that takes a ZOD , because you know thats a POOR use of a Zod rune, thats right, You would be better off making a Grief weapon, it does a far larger amount of damage. But once again you know Blizzard screwed over people who decided to LEGITLY play the game as it should. Yes i do have an idea how hard it is to legitly obtain a Zod, do you ? No you dont, because thats why everyone on BNET has loads of HR's and all the godly runewords you could imagine. TO legitly* obtain a BER rune its about 20k LK runs on average, that means about twice that to cube up a Zod , but you never know you could get lucky. I find people constantly bringing up whats wrong with battle.net? What ISNT? Why should I be forced into playing battle.net suffering from lag and god knows what and be denied the option for TCP/IP?
Saying im whining is just part of the problem. Your the problem just blindly accepting everything that goes along. YOU are paying for the game, why are you settling for less? If I want to have a classing tabletop LAN gaming experience and opting not to be subject to battle.net , why should i be persecuted and denied that option and be forced to play on battle.net and not TCP/IP, not to mention internet connection.
SlechtWeerBeer
26-06-2009, 21:19
Ishtor * Its people like you that make me play single player, where we have to work for everything we have legitly. And i take that as an honor to say we are not "Tainted" as the likes of people who play on battle.net , or hack.net or crap.net w/e you would like to call it.
People here love generalisation. There's people on BNet duping. Does that mean everyone dupes? No (same goes for SP, mind you. Plenty people dupe in SP).
Death And Taxes
26-06-2009, 21:46
Whether you dupe or not , it doesnt matter. Did you trade with someone? Probably, did they dupe, maybe, did they use something like lets say a rune that was duped to obtain that item, probably, that HOTO / enigma they used, were the runes duped for that , i can nearly gurantee they were. Due to the sheer number of people that have them, so, that item you traded for, you wouldnt have normally got it without that person using duped items, therefore whether you dupe or not your using items and trading items that were obtaining through shady/ questionable means unlegitly which makes you yourself not legit. Did you play through the entire game yourself not making contact with a single higher level player? Did you not get rushed, the people who do that , USE those ITEMS. Your a part of it.
SlechtWeerBeer
26-06-2009, 22:58
Whether you dupe or not , it doesnt matter. Did you trade with someone? Probably, did they dupe, maybe, did they use something like lets say a rune that was duped to obtain that item, probably, that HOTO / enigma they used, were the runes duped for that , i can nearly gurantee they were. Due to the sheer number of people that have them, so, that item you traded for, you wouldnt have normally got it without that person using duped items, therefore whether you dupe or not your using items and trading items that were obtaining through shady/ questionable means unlegitly which makes you yourself not legit. Did you play through the entire game yourself not making contact with a single higher level player? Did you not get rushed, the people who do that , USE those ITEMS. Your a part of it.
Tbh, I never traded for anything; I used BNet purely to play with a mate that's (way) out of LAN range who has a normal connection to BNet.
Also, rushing is pathetic.
To those who responed to my message.
Lone_Wolf:
What keeps you from enjoyin the game at your own pace? Me and my bestfriend are playing through the game on bnet, in our own private game. We are doing this in our own pace, playing throuhg all acts and completing all quest, and enjoying the game how it was intended.
"as for cheating well the fun thing about cattlenet is that i dont even have to use the cheats myself others do it for me that is why it would take me about say 14 days to be fully gearted up with the most ridicolous runewords on bnet without breaking a sweat."
And this is why SP using lan is so dumb, if you cheat or some one else cheats for you, whats the difference. Battle.net except for duper and botter, is far better option if you want to play with other people. Like i have said before, its more common for people to have a High speed internet connection, and we no longer have to pick up and move our computer to someones house to play a agme with them, because you can do this at you own convinence. There nothing on bnet stopping you from playing on you pace, it seems to me your affraid of working hard to geth the geer to be leet.
Death And Taxes:
WOW people like me huh..... I am sorry it is far easier for you to cheat in single player than it is for me on battle.net. I play legitly, i have my sorc do massive MF runs, I legitly geared my Ele Druid, and starting my zealer paly. You say we are "tainted" like we have some type of disease. Sounds like some one is a little cranky. I know it far more easier to cheat in SP, there are far more hack out there you can use and you dont have to wory about you account getting banned. People who cheat have there accounts banned, i play legitly, and i think of myself as a nice person. I always join games where people need help doing something, i constantly keep the low level gear to give to people who are starting charecters, or even just starting to play on bnet.
I would like to argue that, Grief is used only for a small amount of melee charecters, and if i am right Smiter is one of those. Also i was using that as an example, how many time have you found anything above a Gul rune. Legitly playing offline you will never be geared in a short period of time, you wont have trading to aid you in this. I dont think blizard screwed me over, and i do play legit. Thanks for think i am ignorant. I ahve been playing diablo since the relase of the first game. I know how to make a zod, but the cube recipe to make a zod has not always been there. OMG! poor baby lag, this is something you can experience in lan play too, but in bnet defence lag issue is because of server chrashing because people uusing hacks. this is why they ban these people and why they are making new and more secure system for there new battle.net server.
Paying for less, i dont know about you, Not haveing a lan option does not mean they are giving you less. they are giving you an option play by yourself or play with others online. They are spending there time and efforts makeing these new servers, and they want them to be used. You are putting down something you have not tested yet. Battle.net 2 is going to be far better, and with the way the world is today, Lan option is obsolite. Before XBox Live got so big me and my friend had lan parties with Halo all the time, Now i think we had 1 in the past year because it easier just to play with our head sets one to talk with eachother, then it is to pack you your xbox, tv and controlller and crowd into someones basement.
and i can say to the same to you bud, how do you play so legit getting all your items in single player. to get these items, even if they did the duping i have to find an item of equal value, which menas i ahd to put the time into the MF runs with my sorc to find that item. To me it is people like you that like to find one thing and mona about it all the time. LAN play is not a big issue since they are giving us a FREE way to play on the terms. By the way the way you decribed it, if you get a $20.00 bill for some change at a walmart, and it turned out to be conterfit, becuas the peron who made it in there basement used it to buy there new tv, your just as guilty as them.
Why wouldn't you expect a LAN feature? Diablo 2 had it.
lone_wolf
27-06-2009, 02:24
To those who responed to my message.
Lone_Wolf:
What keeps you from enjoyin the game at your own pace? Me and my bestfriend are playing through the game on bnet, in our own private game. We are doing this in our own pace, playing throuhg all acts and completing all quest, and enjoying the game how it was intended.
"as for cheating well the fun thing about cattlenet is that i dont even have to use the cheats myself others do it for me that is why it would take me about say 14 days to be fully gearted up with the most ridicolous runewords on bnet without breaking a sweat."
And this is why SP using lan is so dumb, if you cheat or some one else cheats for you, whats the difference. Battle.net except for duper and botter, is far better option if you want to play with other people. Like i have said before, its more common for people to have a High speed internet connection, and we no longer have to pick up and move our computer to someones house to play a agme with them, because you can do this at you own convinence. There nothing on bnet stopping you from playing on you pace, it seems to me your affraid of working hard to geth the geer to be leet.
Nothing prevents me from playing my private games with terrible lag and random crashes due to how bad the bnet system is. I consider games with above 300 ping unplayable you might not.
As for what the difference to cheating is. Its simple IF i where to cheat i would bloody well know it and that would make me a sad excuse of a player in my opinion. As for other cheating how that affect me, well some of us like to play without getting tainted by scum that dupe or otherwise give them self unfair advantages from the rest of us that play the game legit.
You point out whats wrong with bnet yourself that is:
duper and botter as you put it.
you migt not have a problem with that but you have to realize there are those of us that want to stay as far away from such thing as possible.
As for highspeed internet well yes it has improved since the days when 56k modems where lightning fast but that does not mean that the laws of physic has ceased to work. No matter how fancy you internet connection is it cant travel faster then light so distance to the server will always play a part in how low ping you get on averange.
As for me being afraid to work hard to get leet gear as you put it :rolf:
im in the middle of doing 5k pindle, 5k meph. 5k baal+wsk, 5k minimum LK as well as 5k AT runs but thanks for the laugh it was funny.
Lone_Wolf:
I am glad i made you laugh bud. But yes there are people that cheat online, but i know it still will be an issue but i dont think it will be nearly as bad on the new servers and the new game. If you play legit offline, congrats, but i bet the percentage of people playing legit offline is smaller than the online percentage. If they do or do not put in a lan option it would bother me none, seeing how i would not use it. Believe it or not, I am not tainted as you say. But because i want to know, what do you get out of having all this good gear, for offline play. atleast online i got trading and dueling to keep me occupied. If you say you have that with your lan buddies, does it not goet boring dueling the same people, and who is to say your friend plays legit, cant they taint you?
Seems to me the only point you made is about the lag, yes i have lagged on bnet, but it really is not that bad and does not happen all the time like you try and describe. I have lagged out of games, and died to lags before, but to me for the interaction with alot of people and the chance to make new friends, i wo uld not trade it for the world. I still talk with some of the people i met on bnet i met while i was attending school, i graduated 2003.
to me bnet is not just the your only choice to play with your friends, but away for you to socialize. you might not be the type of person that needs an online game for you to socialize, but i know a couple of my friends, this is the only way they talk with other people. Because they are glued to games and want to escape reality. Not all people that need this type of socializing has these type of issues. Maybe it the shift they work. I work 2nd Shift, i spend my morining with my fiance, and then when i get out of work, it is to late to go hang out with people. Online gameing keeps me intertained.
I am sorry i dont see the point in playing a multi player game offline, where you have to go through so much hastle to play with a friend, when they are already giving you a great option to play with them. Could you explain that one? As said by many people this game is a item collecting game, trading is a big part of it. If online people can easily use a program to gear there charecter, maked hacked items, or dupe stuff easily, what is the value of dueing these things offline, what is the purpose? Yes, on bnet we have botters and duppers, dupped items get deleted and disapear, botters account get deleted and cd key get banned, offline what is the punishment for cheating, or have non legit items on your charecter.
Congradualtion if you do all these 5k runs, but what do you really get out of it, when you only compete against 6 of your friends, you can only be the best of 7. not that great of an accomplishment.
It's still early to say. The official statement from Blizzard through the words of Bashiok was:
"We currently have no intentions to allow LAN games, we are focusing fully on Battle.net, where we not only have the ability to quickly connect with other players, but also to sell banner ads."
Nothing more was said about this and it wouldn't be the first time a decision changed based on community feedback. Hence, the "currently".
Not me. Nope.
And I'll be waiting for the LAN hack...
Fixed. ;)
I bolded what he probably meant to (though didn't) say.
Even when i play with friends in the same room its usually on Bnet, but the LAN option is nice for lagfree low level duelling and the like.
Death And Taxes
27-06-2009, 06:45
Ishtor& Anyone reading.
WOW people like me huh..... I am sorry it is far easier for you to cheat in single player than it is for me on battle.net. I play legitly, i have my sorc do massive MF runs, I legitly geared my Ele Druid, and starting my zealer paly. You say we are "tainted" like we have some type of disease. Sounds like some one is a little cranky. I know it far more easier to cheat in SP, there are far more hack out there you can use and you dont have to wory about you account getting banned. People who cheat have there accounts banned, i play legitly, and i think of myself as a nice person. I always join games where people need help doing something, i constantly keep the low level gear to give to people who are starting charecters, or even just starting to play on bnet.
When i said tainted it had nothing to do with being cranky and it sure doesnt have anything to do with a disease,, if you trade with people who use duped stuff you are yourself tainted. Whether or not you had to find legit items your trading them for duped items, and the legit items you found are nowhere as rare as a real zod would be.
I myself have always played diablo two unmodded and no cheats for the duration of the game , Diablo 1, and 2 and Diablo 2 XPACK.
And as far as you see with people getting banned, LMFAO there are so many Bots in D2 right now its not funny. Everytime i log on Diablo 2 i see multiple ones doing Baal runs on hell. And they all use pickit and maphack.
I would like to argue that, Grief is used only for a small amount of melee charecters, and if i am right Smiter is one of those.
True grief is usuable by a small amount of charachters but the ones that do use it prefer it. ( Smiter, Zealot, Fury Wolf(works great pvm and even better PVP with a SS), and a Barbarian.) A WW assasin uses Chaos claws. Bear sorcs use Beast. Amazons usually use Titans / TStrokes.
Also i was using that as an example, how many time have you found anything above a Gul rune.
3 Times, 2 Lo runes in WSK Level 2,3 in hell Difficulty and 1 Ber rune from Pit Run.:yes:
*Also note two IST from Hell countess and one Mal from Hell Hellforge quest.
Legitly playing offline you will never be geared in a short period of time, you wont have trading to aid you in this.
Thats the point, you do all the work yourself. :thumbup:
and i can say to the same to you bud, how do you play so legit getting all your items in single player.
Its easy, i do runs, over and over.:scratchchin:
What keeps me interested in the game?, not dueling people / MFing with items that are duped / not real, not worried about how big my epeen is and measuring it based upon what runewords i wouldnt be able to legitly obtain, but by playing the game on the LAN, with a computer beside mine, interacting with *gasps* a person beside me, having fun together , playing Diablo 2 no cheats, no rushes, no hacks, no bots , not dupes, nearly lag free. And a popular thing among people playing single player is actually collecting all the unique items in the game, some also collect all unique items in their ethereal versions. If you would check out single player forums youd understand that kind of thing. What keeps me into the game? Finding items of course,thats what its always been about.:coffee:
okiimatsu
27-06-2009, 07:37
Its funny to see people feeling threatened by the LAN option. Their arguments even funnier.
lone_wolf
27-06-2009, 11:33
Lone_Wolf:
I am glad i made you laugh bud. But yes there are people that cheat online, but i know it still will be an issue but i dont think it will be nearly as bad on the new servers and the new game. If you play legit offline, congrats, but i bet the percentage of people playing legit offline is smaller than the online percentage. If they do or do not put in a lan option it would bother me none, seeing how i would not use it. Believe it or not, I am not tainted as you say. But because i want to know, what do you get out of having all this good gear, for offline play. atleast online i got trading and dueling to keep me occupied. If you say you have that with your lan buddies, does it not goet boring dueling the same people, and who is to say your friend plays legit, cant they taint you?
Seems to me the only point you made is about the lag, yes i have lagged on bnet, but it really is not that bad and does not happen all the time like you try and describe. I have lagged out of games, and died to lags before, but to me for the interaction with alot of people and the chance to make new friends, i wo uld not trade it for the world. I still talk with some of the people i met on bnet i met while i was attending school, i graduated 2003.
to me bnet is not just the your only choice to play with your friends, but away for you to socialize. you might not be the type of person that needs an online game for you to socialize, but i know a couple of my friends, this is the only way they talk with other people. Because they are glued to games and want to escape reality. Not all people that need this type of socializing has these type of issues. Maybe it the shift they work. I work 2nd Shift, i spend my morining with my fiance, and then when i get out of work, it is to late to go hang out with people. Online gameing keeps me intertained.
I am sorry i dont see the point in playing a multi player game offline, where you have to go through so much hastle to play with a friend, when they are already giving you a great option to play with them. Could you explain that one? As said by many people this game is a item collecting game, trading is a big part of it. If online people can easily use a program to gear there charecter, maked hacked items, or dupe stuff easily, what is the value of dueing these things offline, what is the purpose? Yes, on bnet we have botters and duppers, dupped items get deleted and disapear, botters account get deleted and cd key get banned, offline what is the punishment for cheating, or have non legit items on your charecter.
Congradualtion if you do all these 5k runs, but what do you really get out of it, when you only compete against 6 of your friends, you can only be the best of 7. not that great of an accomplishment.
I hope you are right about bnet 2.0 being better i sincerly hope it will be. That would make it much more fun for people like yourself that play legit would it not?
You wonder what i get out of the game when i play offline? simple im a packrat and i like to try and find all items in the game. So when a item drop that i have not yet obtained i get a kick out of it. But in my case you have to work hard for it. Im currently at 89% found of all items in the game excluding runes off course and i will keep doing runs until i come as close to 100% as humanly possible.
The fact that D2 also features LAN makes me able to play with my family members and with the spf members here at diii.net. So i do in fact socialize with people just a little less people then you do.
D2 has never been just a mp game its always been a singleplayer game with mp as an option and i just choose to play the part i like the most. Im doing all my runs because i have set up goals for myself in this game and what other finds have no impact on those goals at all, so you could say i play to entertain myself:thumbsup:
@Krugar - nicely worded, it pretty much reflects my own diminishing enjoyment of time spent in the world of on line multiplayer games.
Besides which, my daughter enjoys playing D2 on the LAN and I can keep her exposure level to hyperactive online cretins at zero that way. We have been looking forward eagerly to the upcoming release of D3 and when we read that there will be no LAN option, we were very disappointed. Half the fun is party play in an environment of one's own choosing but removing one of those (big) options with no explanation I can discover is.... puzzling, to say the least.
I will still buy the game but a reasonable justification for the no LAN decision would be welcome. My five cents.
Hmm. No LAN could be a dealbreaker for me. I hope Blizzard reconsiders. As a long time Diablo Fan, LAN support is definately on my top ten list of features I would like to see in the intial release of D3.
Death And Taxes
28-06-2009, 03:05
No Lan is definately a deal breaker for me, not to mention how they made battlenet only runewords not available on single player already left a bad taste in my mouth. So if Diablo 3 didnt feature LAN play it would dissapoint me, not to mention my only option for playing multiplayer then would be to play on battle.net where I would be subject to infinite adds about WOW, and all the likes of stupidity from every corner of the earth all piled onto heap.
Any Blues reading this have anything to say?
sneakytails
28-06-2009, 04:39
Yeah no Lan is a dealbreaker here as well. Chalk up another one.
Believe it or not but the whole world is not wired with broadband yet, Ishtor.
What is everyone who does not have it supposed to do then ishtor? play a game that has a very strong team component by themselves in single player forever? Now thats dumb.
The real reason why LAN did not make it into the game is that there are more people like ishtor who are online fanatics than there are like me and that simply means more dollar bills for blizzard. Or should I say activision?
This decision is about money not the game itself.
Next thing will be subscription only battle net 2.0, lets just keep the cash cow players and screw the small pockets of other types of players.
Its a good thing that doesn't sound like any other games out there. rolls eyes.
SlechtWeerBeer
28-06-2009, 11:01
No Lan is definately a deal breaker for me, not to mention how they made battlenet only runewords not available on single player already left a bad taste in my mouth. So if Diablo 3 didnt feature LAN play it would dissapoint me, not to mention my only option for playing multiplayer then would be to play on battle.net where I would be subject to infinite adds about WOW, and all the likes of stupidity from every corner of the earth all piled onto heap.
Any Blues reading this have anything to say?
PlugY can enable those runewords on SP (as well as some other nifty stuff; you can choose what to enable).
Blues don't talk here (reading, maybe), for what I know.
lone_wolf
28-06-2009, 12:49
we already use sanctioned mods at the spf that give us the ability to use the ladder only runewords without the crappy cheats that plugy adds.
Uber diablo and the others i can live without the event is just a sad and simple way to try and lower the amount of dupes on bnet when it comes to sojs......
And its working so well dont you think:crazyeyes:
Sorry but us sp users dont want to have to use freaking cheat programs to be able to use all the futures of a game that we paid for. In many cases we have brough the game multiple times.
SlechtWeerBeer
28-06-2009, 13:27
we already use sanctioned mods at the spf that give us the ability to use the ladder only runewords without the crappy cheats that plugy adds.
Uber diablo and the others i can live without the event is just a sad and simple way to try and lower the amount of dupes on bnet when it comes to sojs......
And its working so well dont you think:crazyeyes:
Sorry but us sp users dont want to have to use freaking cheat programs to be able to use all the futures of a game that we paid for. In many cases we have brough the game multiple times.
How is enabling DClone/Ladder RWs through PlugY a cheat, and through some other method/program it's not a cheat? Don't be a fool.
If you don't want something PlugY adds, disable it.
However, I do agree BNet shouldn't have something special that makes it 'bigger' than SP.
How is enabling DClone/Ladder RWs through PlugY a cheat, and through some other method/program it's not a cheat? Don't be a fool.
If you read more closely he doesn't consider the enabling of Ladder RWs a cheat.
Also, can we consider luring people into BNet by making 'BNet only'-content a testimony of its failure? Now you know why people want LAN.
lone_wolf
29-06-2009, 10:41
How is enabling DClone/Ladder RWs through PlugY a cheat, and through some other method/program it's not a cheat? Don't be a fool.
If you don't want something PlugY adds, disable it.
However, I do agree BNet shouldn't have something special that makes it 'bigger' than SP.
Yeah right or maybe i just use a mod that only change a flag within diablo 2 and have it enable the ladder runewords that way.
that way i dont have to use a walkaround mod to enable things that are in fact hardcoded in the game and becasue of that you can only simulate the event, you cant make it the same as on bnet. Plugy lacks the proper Ai of the ubers for instance.
LittleOldLady
29-06-2009, 14:17
Ishtor:
Some of us (in Australia, for example) have access to fast broadband but are far from the servers => high ping, lots of lag. There'll never be enough players to let us have a server closer than Asia/USWest.
Also, when you're playing LAN, you only need to worry whether or not your friends play legit. Even if everyone else uses hacks/dupes in LAN, you'll never play with them, so it doesn't matter. On battle.net, you don't have that ability: everyone shares the server, so sooner or later you'll get an item that's not legit (or someone will give you a great, but not uber, item they wouldn't have had as a spare without getting a dupe cheap).
Starving_Poet
29-06-2009, 19:11
if you want to break it down to one thing - the problem with bnet is the same reason why the dclone only exists on bnet.
Okiimatsu:
I do not feel threatened. I really dont care if the option is there or not there. Infact i find this argument funny, because to me Lan is out of date, and is not needed at all.
Lone_wolf:
I think we both enjoy alot fo the same thing of the game. I like to show off and meet people. How ever i do like the challenge of beating other players, and even enjoy it more when I know they dont play legit. If you want to play SP, i hope they add the lan option for people like you, i just dont see it, and probally will not. I rather play online like i always have.
Death And Taxes:
They want you to play on bnet and the servers they spent so much money on. Adds can not bother you to much, because we are swarmed with them on this website alone, not to mention TV and and every ohter form of the media you use for entertainment.
Sneakytail:
Bnet 2 is going to be free. Blizzard as we know try to make the game something everyone can play. I know you dont like it, but in most case gamers do have a HSI they can use, wether they steel wireless signals or pay for it themselves. I know there are people that do not have it, and some due to the fact where they live it hard if possible at all to get. If you dont have HSI, i am sorry, and like i said i dont mind if they do ad this feature, i just find it to be one we dont need.
Sletchweerbeer:
why shouldn't bnet offer something else to make people want to play the ladder. I play ladder and once it reset i will delet my charecters and start over again. Blizzard wants you to play the ladder and this is one way of doing it.
Stephan:
I doubt Blizzard considers Bnet to be a failure. otherwise ther would of got rid of this feature instead of lan..... ouch that was a burn.
In other news, SC2 isn't going to have lan support according to Pardo.
SlechtWeerBeer
29-06-2009, 22:49
Sletchweerbeer:
why shouldn't bnet offer something else to make people want to play the ladder. I play ladder and once it reset i will delet my charecters and start over again. Blizzard wants you to play the ladder and this is one way of doing it.
Blizz doesn't care if you play ladder or not.
However, that's not the point. Wether you play SP or MP, you've paid the same price. Why would someone playing online get more game per buck? If BNet had a subscription fee, okay, then there's a reason they have more; they pay more. But BNet is a free service living off WoW (oh, and a banner ad. Wow).
It's basically a ****-You-from-Blizzard towards SPers.
Blizz doesn't care if you play ladder or not.
However, that's not the point. Wether you play SP or MP, you've paid the same price. Why would someone playing online get more game per buck? If BNet had a subscription fee, okay, then there's a reason they have more; they pay more. But BNet is a free service living off WoW (oh, and a banner ad. Wow).
It's basically a ****-You-from-Blizzard towards SPers.
LOL... thats is a lil bit dramatic is it not. You know when the the game first game out, they were exactly the same to play online or offline, minus the extra comunication online offers. This is stuff they added over time. and if blizzard did not care if people play ladder, they would not offer the extras to make you want to play it. Bnet was there long before wow, and i am sure any proffit made from wow goes to fix and improve it. They have people they play to be logged on and do moderator stuff. They have weekly maitnance, this is something diablo does not have.
Ishtor, I don't think this was dramatic.
You see, lack of LAN play is big problem for a LOT of people.
Not because b.net is bad, but because LAN is the best thing when you know real people, that can get together and play something in a LAN party.
If you don't know what a LAN party is, you don't know what you're missing.
Plus, there's a LOT of people that don't live in the US, so, we LAG, a LOT, my ping to bnet is 400ms minimum, and I have a 2Mbits/s connection, if I could use TCP/IP to other friends in my country, I could easily get 10, 20ms pings.
He is also right about payment, we all pay the same for the game, why should online community get more content ?
So, people that want LAN / TCP-IP support are not just being dramatic, we're just getting sick of the amount of games that come out with the multiplayer being server only.
You want another reason why I don't like bnet and nobody mentioned ? ATMA, muling single player chars in d2 with ATMA made me play this game a lot more than I would without it.
Want yet another reason why I hate bnet ?
Deletion of chars to inactivity, my single player chars I can backup and play again months later, I don't need to login to every one of them once in a while just so they don't get deleted.
Companies that are not enabling LAN / TCP-IP games when these games have that "server multiplayer option", should die, I pirate every one of these games and will never pay for such a game, I don't even play these games very much, no fun to it, as we like our lan parties and these games don't get in the list.
Crono:
I am not dumb, i have attended many lan parties before. At the same time it is one of those things where i live in the us and lag is not to much of an issue for me. Like i stated it would not bother me if they added lan play. But for me LAN is not the best option to play with my frineds. I have friends all over the united states, ones that have moveds, ones i met in college, and other i met online, like this forum.
I apologize if i come across rude, i have fun in debates like this, and really most of the time just having fun while stating my opinion. You are right, we both payed the same amount for the game, but we both also have the option how we play. If they want to give us more to play ladder online, there is nothing wrong with it. There really is not much that stops you from doing this in there minds.
I am sorry due to where you live, cause a lot of lag, maybe this is something they will adress with all the new servers they bought, maybe with battlenet2, this will not be as big of an issue. I Think blizzard is smart enough with there games not to make a big mistake, and if they do they will relize this with the new starcraft. Remember this is being released first, and it is not hav lan play either. If this is a big issue in this game, i am sure they will fix SC in a patch and add to D3 before release.
also i think you did not understand what i was saying was dramitic, and i should of been more clear, i was refering to the last line in the quote. You know the ****-you-....
You admitting that you pirate these games probally does not help your arguement. Blizzard want you to buy the game. this could be another reason they are not including lan play, because people pirating the game and not buying it hurts there sales. And when you have a LAN option, that does give you a way you can play the game with other people, with out buying it. This way if you steal (pirate) the game, you only get half of it.
Charecter being deleted online. You know i am not to found of this either, but it is not an issue either. the fun to me is when i restart, having to start from scratch. If i quit playing from that long lenght of time, i am going to want to restart anyways. especially when the lan season i was playing is probally over.
I doubt Blizzard considers Bnet to be a failure. otherwise ther would of got rid of this feature instead of lan..... ouch that was a burn.
If that was an attempt at a sneer, you need to try harder.
Obviously if BNet is such a great place by itself there is no reason to cheat SP out of content. Anyone would go for Bnet anyway right? In reality there are 23000 LoD games at the moment and 30000 players. What a great MP experience indeed.
Spoticus
30-06-2009, 09:37
Been a long time since I posted here. I have been lurking around since the D1 days, used to be pretty active on the spf for d2, quietly awaiting D3.
Anyway I think Crono sums up the pro LAN argument very nicely. I see it as this, why would anyone (other than blizzards accountants) be happy about removing a core gaming feature.
For those that only play on battlenet, LAN or no LAN has no impact.
For those that like to play both, or can't use battlenet, no LAN is a very sad prospect. Blizzard used to lead the way with multiplayer spawns of their games to promote sales, I find it hard to believe they have hard data indicating this reduced their sales. Personally I can think of at least 20 people I met in real life that bought a Blizzard game after trying it out at a LAN.
Characters getting deleted is a big thing for me too, I entirely understand why it is done, but not having a (legal) alternative for characters you may only play rarely is disappointing. Has there been any word on likely character limits? I must of had 50 different characters in Diablo 2, if linked to Battlenet is the only option, isnt an 8-12 multiplayer character limit quite likely?
I too am Australian, back in D2 days I had a barely functioning 28.8 connection. 4k ping to battlenet was not a real option. These days I have just about the best connection available to me in Australia, yet I am still going to ping 240-300ish to west coast US server. Another example is that last year I moved city, the cost of getting a broadband connection installed is expensive, so I waited until I was in a more permanent residence to get ADSL installed. This lead to 6 months with no internet access at home. In D2 I would of happily played single player characters knowing I can use them to LAN with mates in the future. I will likely play on battlenet a lot, but I would love the option to have some offline characters that I play exclusively with a group of friends with better ping etc.
I don't think Blizzard will move towards a mandatory subscription for Bnet2, at least not for some time. The possibility of extra content for subscribers/dlc packs or something along those lines, is probably a real possibility though.
As for a method to stop piracy, for games as high profile as SC2/D3, those who want to pirate it will pirate it. And they will probably have very little trouble avoiding the battlenet authorisation for private TCP/IP play.
:whistling:Ive been reading about Diablo 3 and so far ive read that Diablo 3 will not feature a multiplayer option other than Battle.net. This is extremely aggrivating and frustrating considering your basically forcing people to play on battle.net or hack the game to be able to play through a lan/multiplayer not on battle.net.
For something so easy to implement why not? Not to mention in Diablo 2 you guys kind of screwed over single players by
1.) not enabling a legit way to be able to do the Pandemonium event in the game. Why shouldnt you be able to do pandemonium event in single player? You guys make the keys drop, its not like it would be hard to do.
2.) Not letting single players be able to make ladder only runewords unless they use a mod, once again, why not? Do you have any idea how much ridiculously more difficult it is to even make those runewords single player yet alone legitly* aqcuire all the runes?
So keep those in mind for patch 1.13 but i personally no that if Diablo 3 doesnt feature TCP/IP play i wont be buying it.
The only people who should be complaining about LAN in D3 are the people without internet. Only problem is they can't log on here to complain about it lol. So anyone else who has internet, and is complaining about LAN not being in the game, cry more.
Starving_Poet
30-06-2009, 17:47
The only people who should be complaining about LAN in D3 are the people without internet. Only problem is they can't log on here to complain about it lol. So anyone else who has internet, and is complaining about LAN not being in the game, cry more.
:coffee: Thanks for contributing a well-reasoned counter-point to this debate.
The only people who should be complaining about LAN in D3 are the people without internet. Only problem is they can't log on here to complain about it lol. So anyone else who has internet, and is complaining about LAN not being in the game, cry more.
good point :coffee:
The only people who should be complaining about LAN in D3 are the people without internet. Only problem is they can't log on here to complain about it lol. So anyone else who has internet, and is complaining about LAN not being in the game, cry more.
You seem to forget the fact that for internet PLAY you need a response from the server in an appropriate time, and to post here, I can do so with a "pre-historic" 14.4k modem in the south pole.
Due to server DISTANCE, since the servers are in the US, everyone else that is distant from the servers suffer from LAG, despite having a 12mbits/s connection, it doesn't matter, server distance will always cause lag, it's just how the internet works.
That is one of the reasons I don't play WOW btw, no fun in playing a game where the first hit always miss, because it's the amount of time for the hit to reach the server and come back, by the time the first hit is accepted by the client, the client is already doing the second hit, and the impression you have is that the first hit always miss and the second hit is the one that actually killed the enemy. Believe me, it's NOT fun. And since WOW is old enough already and blizzard still didn't create a server for it in my region(even with lots of players that are fanatic enough to pay for it even with a 400ms lag), I highly doubt that they would create a free bnet server, which means we will have to again download cracks and hamachi servers and setup our own stuff, so, why couldn't they simply add LAN support officially ? That would be so simple...
Plus, LAN does not encourage piracy, D2 has lan/tcp-ip and is one of the most sold out games ever, maybe lose only to the The Sims, and we all know what happened to hellgate london, they promised LAN and they removed it and agressively did everything they could to prevent piracy, what they achieved ? A big FAIL, of course lack of lan was just a minor reason for the HL problems, still, that game cried for LAN and they didn't add it.
Why is LAN so important to me ? Because at work we can all get to the end of the day and use some lan games to get stress out of our heads before even getting home, and counter-strike/starcraft 1/d2 are getting old, if d3 had lan, we'd surely play it...
Death And Taxes
30-06-2009, 22:35
Not including TCP/IP play for multiplayer to prevent people downloading and cracking it and using keygens and all that pirating stuff is nonsense. People will ALWAYS do that with EVERY game that EVER comes out. always. :thumbup: .
And that comment about people complaining about no lan is exactly the reason battlenet sucks, I paid the same ammount for the game as that extremely rude and uncalled for poster did, but I get hostility like that? One thing I never will deal with on LAN and SP. Good thing too.
And someone a few posts back said somthing about the money wow makes goes into WoW , yeah right, there are a boatload of problems in that game and they sure as hell arent using the money to fix any of them, except QQ about players and Op classes and the likes of that nature.
Anyone whos ever played Starcraft, arguably the greatest LAN game ever , at a huge LAN party, would feel the exact same thing us Diablo players feel. It would be the same case if they decided not to include LAN in StarCraft2.
WRONGED.
Partly it's probably the Activision/ Blizzard merger to blame, because the head of Activision is all about the $$$ and just wants people to go on Bnet to be bombarded with ads.
lone_wolf
30-06-2009, 22:44
The only people who should be complaining about LAN in D3 are the people without internet. Only problem is they can't log on here to complain about it lol. So anyone else who has internet, and is complaining about LAN not being in the game, cry more.
Your argument holds no value, if your going to post at least post something with substance. Seriously it is as if you people are afraid of anything that gives you more options then x and y.
Why is LAN so important to me ? Because at work we can all get to the end of the day and use some lan games to get stress out of our heads before even getting home, and counter-strike/starcraft 1/d2 are getting old, if d3 had lan, we'd surely play it...
So in other words, you want to slack off at work. But hey we all do it, if worst comes to worst I'm sure the fella's at the hamachi forums will find a work around.
Your argument holds no value, if your going to post at least post something with substance. Seriously it is as if you people are afraid of anything that gives you more options then x and y.
I made my point already, if you have internet stop whining about having no LAN. Unless you live in an igloo, you shouldn't worry about lan. Using "I can't play with my friends at work" is not a good example either, you shouldn't be playing games at work. If anything Hamachi should have a LAN version of the game up and running in no time.
Edit: Excuse my double post, realized you can't delete posts on here.
I made my point already, if you have internet stop whining about having no LAN. Unless you live in an igloo, you shouldn't worry about lan. Using "I can't play with my friends at work" is not a good example either, you shouldn't be playing games at work. If anything Hamachi should have a LAN version of the game up and running in no time.
When I play LAN I usually don't do it at home (where I have internet), so your logic fails.
Puckineh
30-06-2009, 23:12
I made my point already, if you have internet stop whining about having no LAN. Unless you live in an igloo, you shouldn't worry about lan. Using "I can't play with my friends at work" is not a good example either, you shouldn't be playing games at work. If anything Hamachi should have a LAN version of the game up and running in no time.
Edit: Excuse my double post, realized you can't delete posts on here.
on battle net my stashes/characters from years ago would have vanished... i don't play on battle net because i like to collect and progress characters over time... not having LAN punishes me for my style of play
When I play LAN I usually don't do it at home (where I have internet), so your logic fails.
LAN is oldschool, if you can't afford internet then you as a human being fail.
If they are going to take out LAN, it's going to be for a good reason.
As mentioned by Rob Pardo in interviews, piracy is a serious problem and often times tie in closely with LAN. At the end of the day, we want the best for the community and fans that support our games, and having chunk of the community pirate the game actually hurts the community.
1) Pirated servers splinter the community instead of consolidating all players who love to play the game. Battle.net will bring players together in skirmishes, ladder play, custom games, and allow everyone the opportunity to share a common experience.
2) More people on Battle.net means more even more resources devoted to evolving this online platform to cater to further community building and new ways to enjoy the game online. World of Warcraft is a great example of a game that has evolved beyond anyone's imagination since their Day 1 and will continue to do so to better the player experience for as long as players support the title. The original StarCraft is an even better example of how 11 years later, players still love and play this title, and we will continue to support and evolve it with patches.
We would not take out LAN if we did not feel we could offer players something better.
If I were to buy StarCraft II or any other title, I know the money I spent would be going to supporting that title. Personally, I would be upset that others were freeloading while others are legitimately supporting a title that has great potential and goals of making this title have 'long legs.'
If you like a song a lot, buy it, and that artist will only come out with more awesome songs for you. If you like a game, buy it, and we will promise to constantly work to make the player experience better at every corner we can.
Support the causes you believe in (This is applicable to all things, not just gaming).
Don't be a leech to society, innovation, and further awesome creations.
sreda, are you even reading my posts ?
I'll make this one smaller so you can read it.
BNET lags for people far from US !!!
400 MS ping is not cool !
LAN has 10 ms pings.
BTW, at my work we have the freedom to play AFTER the work hours ! So why shouldn't we play LAG-FREE LAN ?
LAN is oldschool, if you can't afford internet then you as a human being fail.
So when I said "I have internet" you interpeted it as "I can't afford internet"? It's not about money it's about availability. I've played in rented buildings and other places big enough to fit a larger crowds where you don't have broadband access. So by default you can't play SC2 and D3 in those places. Sure we could sit at home or in smaller groups, but that is not what LAN is about for me and a lot of other people.
And that interview is just their justifications for taking it out, it doesn't make it true just because they say so. You could argue a lot of those points brought up.
Ans as the poster above me stated, lag is a issue, even with broadband.
So when I said "I have internet" you interpeted it as "I can't afford internet"? It's not about money it's about availability. I've played in rented buildings and other places big enough to fit a larger crowds where you don't have broadband access. So by default you can't play SC2 and D3 in those places. Sure we could sit at home or in smaller groups, but that is not what LAN is about for me and a lot of other people.
And that interview is just their justifications for taking it out, it doesn't make it true just because they say so. You could argue a lot of those points brought up.
Ans as the poster above me stated, lag is a issue, even with broadband.
I think they more than hinted that LAN would be gone. Firstly, by describing how most piracies are derived from LAN games. They then said hintingly that if LAN was to be removed, they would have a good reason. They just gave us a good enough reason to remove it, so I'm pretty sure it's going to be removed from the game. The more people on Bnet the better.
The argument about lag shouldn't be that great a problem, there are going to be different realms to play on just like in D2, and with this game being released in as many countries as possible, you can bet there will be a realm location that best fits your needs. If you're in europe and you're playing on USwest or USeast then you need to be shot several times.
Death and Taxes:
Not putting lan as an option and play will help prevent hacking, it will always be there, but that is an option to keep it limited, and could be ONE, not all, of the reasons they are not including this.
BattleNEt really does not suck, if your only reason to why you thinks it sucks is because people personalities, then it the world that suck not the server. It is not perfect but it way more convienent than LAN play is.
I am the one that said the thing about wow, i am sure proffit is going to someones pocket, but they also use this to pay the people that help work on the project also. It is expensive, your right there still is problem, that why they do weekly update to try and fix these things.
$$$ is the root to all evil. your right this desiccion is probally based on money, edvertising, more people having to buy the game other then using a program to make a fake cd drive with diablo in like i have friend do in the past, or hacking the game to not use a cd, this is lost revinue, money that they worked hard for. Why whould they not get this. Also they can have more control what happen on there private server than SP.
Lone_wolf
this part is off topic but i like your running wolf, give you thumbs up for that.
some of your reason why battlenet sucks though has not held water, or reason why LAN play is so important.
To every one:
Charecter disapeering after a long period of time. after you invest the time in a charecter it take i think 2 months, maybe 3 for it to be deleted for inactivity. Thats to clear room on the server. It not hard to log on a charcter for half a second just to refresh the time, to me its like defraging my pc. its something you do and really does nto take much time. until you see how the new battlenet server works and how the game runs with it, you cant complain to much.
you guys are complain based on nothing really. These are brand new server, austrailian player and other people not in america sorry if to conect to one of the server over here gives you bad lag and ping, but if the target area is that big over there maybe you guys should write blizzard letters or petitions.
And i am sure the thing about piracy is not a lie, it is stealing, i have done this myself. I know its out there. But if they steal the gae, and could only play SP because they dont have access to bnet, it really does not hurt as much. How many of you never used a program like morpheus or kazaa, or any other P2P server program to download videos music or anything else?
It's not like I won't buy the game without LAN, but I'm just no convinced that the downside is larger then the upside of having it. I think it's obvious that Blizzard has made that decision based on the money side (loss from piracy as such). But considering how games are hacked nowadays, I just don't see this having much effect. Eventually you'll be able to download a file, patch the game, and play LAN anyway. I have a hard time seeing blizzard being able to prevent this.
Kiroptus
01-07-2009, 00:14
Well guys you can give up trying ask Blizzard for a LAN feature in Diablo 3 when they the cujones to take out LAN feature out of Starcraft 2 and enrage an entire country.
Well guys you can give up trying ask Blizzard for a LAN feature in Diablo 3 when they the cujones to take out LAN feature out of Starcraft 2 and enrage an entire country.
I don't think anyone here expect Blizzard to change their mind. Doesn't prevent us from talking about it though. ;)
the real promblem is there are going to be people that will try to hack, cheat and/or steal when dealing with this game (and many others). This is just one way they will try and limit it. I read somewhere that they stated they were going to include a fail safe that D3 will try and close itself if any .exe file is activated after the game is open, which is another way they are trying to prevent this as much as possible.
LAN play is just too unsecure and out of date. Stop saying "but i cant have party playing with my friends." Guess what in the world we live in today day, we have the internet that acomplishes the same thing. Programs like ventrillo and skype allow us to talk to eachother like we are still in the same room. WOW to do the end game stuff you are playing with up 25 people at the same time, Raiding enemies towns raids even got bigger. For people that dont want to DL other progams to talk WOW including it on program inside the game, which i am sure they can have in Diablo.
The only arguement that i have seen you guys say that is even close to valid was lag issues. this is something that you cant really complain to much about atleast SC2 is out and we see how the new servers are.
Besides you guys talk about how fun these lan parties are, i play halo, i been to lan parties. There extremely fun when you play with a bunch of other people, how fun is a lan party if you can only play with 3 other people, if the do have the max that can be in the game be 4. That wont be a lan party, that will be 4 dorks playing with eachother ( before you start flaming, i am a dork and proud of it)
out of curiosity do you complain that tv is in color?
Kiroptus
01-07-2009, 00:32
Yeah, I was just shocked that I recently read the news that SC2 (which I havent been tracking as much as Diablo 3) wont have LAN. I mean... Starcraft is the Korea sport because of LAN play, not because of BNET, that is surely a very bold move.
out of curiosity do you complain that tv is in color?
Out of curiosity, do you think Internet dependency is a good thing?
Out of curiosity, do you think Internet dependency is a good thing?
It is not really matter if it is or is not a good thing. Thats is how the world we live in is run today. I think this was a quoted and mentioned in a movie before.
But we have so much information at our finger tips, buisness run on this, money is made by this, people stay in contact, manage there bills, buy stuff. The internet it a big part in everone life. When you swipe your debit/credit card, it uses the internet to charge it to our account. Gaming has defantly went this way. People complained that the gamecube did not support online play, and now we compare who has the best support for the online play. Game content is always being more geared toward the online play. Because of this some games the story lacks, but alot of people dont even play games for the stories anymore.
Blizzard wants us to play on Bnet. Haveing LAN play also give us a reason not to play on there servers.
sreda, Ishtor, if lag is not a problem to you, be happy, saying you're sorry because there are no servers in australia (or south america) doesn't really solve the problem does it ?
Saying lag is not an argument, that doesn't help either, d2 lags with all it's realms, it's not a server/realm problem, it's a location problem, unless blizz create servers to attend ALL is customers (servers in south america/australia/etc.), they can make the most wonderful b.net you can imagine, it's not gonna help when I start up my game in my 2mbit/s connection and get 400~600 ms pings with 3000ms peaks and disconnects.
Write letters to blizzard ? You think this wasn't done with WoW ? Go into useast wow servers and look at the amount of south americans PAYING and playing even with massive lag, it even lags the servers for U.S. customers, and been happening for a while, instead of opening servers in S.A., blizzard separated the S.A. players from N.A. players using different realms which prevented the game from lagging for the N.A. customers.(you can read about this in b.net forums, I read it some time ago)
Rob Pardo says he want to make battle.net a great place for people to play, good, now they only need to take battle.net to the world, or give the world the option to play in lag-free lan/tcp-ip/whatever, you don't really expect to conquer customers by not serving them, right ? Or are only the U.S./Europe customers worth of attention ? If that's the case, don't complain when the rest of the world pirate your game to death.
Now, I either play SP or play lagged MP ? No thanks, I might stick with hamachi servers if ever out, and I'll have to support the very same people that Rob Pardo doesn't like, because battle.net doesn't serve me, and they do.
They expect to beat piracy removing LAN ? Let me see, the game will reach shelves here costing twice as much as it costs in US because of import taxes, then I'll have to deal with lag ? The alternative is I download the game for free and setup my own hamachi server and play without lag, guess what ?
D2 has lan and tcp/ip and battle.net, I own the game, and hardly set foot on b.net, see, just cause it had lan didn't stop me from buying it, or everyone else that bought it to play lan/sp.
Creating super cool servers will not help, my ping to us.yahoo.com is 200ms, my ping to br.yahoo.com is 50ms, see the difference ?
Sorry, I don't want to be offensive to anyone, it just makes me sick that the developers/publishers seem to always fight piracy the wrong way, they give players more and more reasons to not buy their games than otherwise, REMOVING features from a game should NEVER be a good thing, they even trick the players in believeing less features = better for them... go figure...
Changing the subject a bit, the PS3 is the only console that doesn't work with pirated games right ? Funny how it's the one with the smaller sales and activision just said it will stop making games for the only protected console there is, because it doesn't sell games as much as x360 or wii... I thought the developers would rather gather all together and only develop for PS3 seeing as it did so well in stopping piracy for sure, seems.. controversial... doesn't ? ;)
Gaming industry should get it's facts together, LAN is not responsible for piracy, removing it from games doesn't fight piracy, every anti-piracy system ever tried failed (except for the ps3), it's a well proven fact.
WOW, Crono big post.
1) if you are not going to buy the game, you do not have the right to complain. Wether is free to steel it or not, it wrong! I am not perfect i have done this type of stuff before.
2) for trying to stop people from pirating there game, i think removing lan to try to prevent this is a good idea and one of the many thing they can do to try to prevent this.
3) comparing the systems and whow they are doing, atleast how they are doing in the us.
First Place goes to Wii.
this is because it targets more than just gamers, this targets non gamers. alot of hard core items dont like thie system because it does not support hard core games. But nintendo is smart in how they market and now what they are doing. Wii play has been in the top 10 games sold in the us since it release, mostly because it comes with a wii mote. that my fried is very smart.
Second goes to Xbox.
this system cam out before the other 2 systems, has build up its library, and people say ther online play is the best of all 3 systems. Also includes some of the biggest titles on the systems. It shares alot of the same games as the PS3, but the system is cheaper and alot of people already had it before the PS3. It being easily modded to play non-legit copy of games, or to install a game on the hard drive really does not have much to do with it.
PS3 comes in last.
there was alot of things that hurt the PS3. It being the most expansive of the 3 system first off did not help. Games, the ps3 beside the titles shared with the xbox has not had many big titles. Some of have came out but, none in my opinion would make me jump out and buy the system right away. I do own one along with the other two systme but was my last choice. but now that i have it i will buy the game for the ps3 before the xbox version most of the time because it is a more powerful system.
sorry i know that is not diablo related i am just trying to prove a point. you do not offend me at all, you are jsut stating oyur opinion like i am stating mine.
at the same time, i am not ignorant ( i am a bad speller and even worse typer, but i am not dumb.) They are not tricking me that less features is better, but removing a feature that is no longer needed is not a bad thing. How many new cars come installed with a cassett tape player today?
LAN is a thing of the past, the world changes and you have to move with it, or your jsut going to be left behind.
Yeh I know that the protection has no relation to how well a console is selling, what I meant is, since the PS3 is the only platform out there were pirating a game is not possible, and since the devs are so jumpy about piracy, why are they not developing only for ps3 and avoiding piracy ?
your point 1 : That's the problem, I am probably going to buy d3, probably even pre-order some special edition of it, that's why I'm SO pissed, I will not have PROPER multiplayer, even after paying so much for it.
your point 2 : There's not a single proof that lan helps piracy, there's no proof of the opposite either, however, we DO have cracks and pirate versions of every game out there that has no lan support, so, removing lan protected those games ?
Diablo 2 having lan, sold less ? counter-strike sold a LOT of half-life cd-keys and could easily be played on pirate lans, the affirmation that LAN = piracy is invalid, not a single game out there serves as example, even WoW has (bad yeah, but still) hamachi servers, if you want to play any game for free, you can, LAN does not affect it in any form.
companies are not going to want to waste the time and money in system that is not selling, thats is why they are stoping support, among other reasons. Sony has a record to anger companies they work with usually meaning someone beaks there contract and refuse co-op between the 2 parties. It is not the first time a publisher has said they have ahd enough with sony and probally will not be the last. Same with nintendo, they are very private about everything they do, refusing to let people see how the ocntrol works so they can make better games in use of the control, and denie access to other comapaniess using the Mii's.
Your right there is not solid proof of this, but after trying this if it works there going to keep doing it, and if it does not work, they still have the option and time to change there minds. it is still along time before the release, there is no use in complaining about something that is not set in concrete, they have plenty of time to change there minds, and even get to test this way to prevent priacy on another game first.
I know to SC2 is a big deal to some people, i always was a diablo and warcraft person because i dont like the futuristic feel to games. so testing stuff like this on it does not bother me at all. If you are going to get SC2, wait till the end of the year to flame so you can atleast have better input on the situation, or atleast wait for feedback about the game and how the new server work, and where the nes servers will be located.
sneakytails
01-07-2009, 05:26
Well I have been with the diablo series for a long time, My copies of the cd's h ave followed me around through two major moves and many events in my life.
I have been a broadband user for 6 of the last 10 years. There have been times where I have had it and times where it was not possible.
The LAN feature of diablo allowed me to continue playing the game through a large variety of circumstances and is the biggest reason I still play the game today.
LAN parties are social events for hardcore gamers, they still happen. get over it.
LAN is flexibility, pure and simple. Thats why Call of duty 4: Modern Warfare 2 will have the feature this November when its released. Geez, what were they thinking?
Whats is so simple about a lan partie.
1) pack up all your stuff
2) un pack all you stuff in your friends basement as you squeeze in there basement
3) have to set everything up
4)finally get to play
Bnet.
1) sign in and play
much shorter list to play, and it just as social, if not more.
Good for call of duty 4:modern warefare. Like i said and as many of us that dont think LAN is that important, we dont care it wont hurt us either way.
Last time i went to a LAN party was couple month ago and after i got there and it took over an hour to set everything up and play, it was al wasted time because we could the same thing over xbox live in the confort of our own homes, and we could still of talked with our headsets.
the real promblem is there are going to be people that will try to hack, cheat and/or steal when dealing with this game (and many others). This is just one way they will try and limit it. I read somewhere that they stated they were going to include a fail safe that D3 will try and close itself if any .exe file is activated after the game is open, which is another way they are trying to prevent this as much as possible.
This is just another stupid idea and possibly even illegal.
LAN play is just too unsecure and out of date. Stop saying "but i cant have party playing with my friends." Guess what in the world we live in today day, we have the internet that acomplishes the same thing.
And this is where you go wrong. It does not, in fact, achieve the same thing.
Bnet.
1) sign in and play
Your forgot to add:
2) lag
3) get disconnected
More so than overbearing/invasive anti-piracy measures that would affect everyone who buys the game regardless of how they're going to play it instead of just those that may want a LAN feature? I would doubt it.
I don't know a lot about it, Diablo III isn't really facing the brunt of the Battle.net 2.0 features just yet, but I think that removing LAN in an attempt to avoid more severe anti-piracy measures is pretty cool. We're saying "Hey, we're pretty sure you're going to love our game. The multiplayer is really the best part though. In order to get in on that that we'd just like to make sure you bought the game. Cool?"
Bashiok is very talkative today.
CaptainDingo
01-07-2009, 16:23
Dear misguided souls who call LAN outdated in this thread:
Explain how 200 ping is more "advanced" than 0 ping.
Oh, it's not. Bumbling idiots.
@sreda: Bashiok is sounding very stupid today. Usually he sounds perfectly intelligent because what he's defending are fairly solid design decisions. Here he's defending an ineffective DRM ploy by failing hard at justifying the removal of a beloved gameplay option.
If anything, they're going to make more people pirate the game than less. All the LAN/TCPIPers are more likely to go "**** it, I'm pirating the game and playing single player only" before they ever go "Aw shucks, guess I'll just play on Battle.net like they want me to!"
I guarantee it.
Want to put it to the test, Blizzard? Because you're not gonna win in a game of chicken against your user base. But I dare you to try. And then tell me how much piracy you stemmed by disallowing LAN play. And try to sound humble and say "sorry" a lot when you admit you were wrong, if you don't mind.
In fact, you guys just sit tight, I'll gladly report back on how many tens of thousands of seeders there are for Diablo 3 torrents when the game releases. Then we can talk about how much piracy you've stopped by disallowing LAN/IP play. Or "pirate play" as you guys have deemed it.
Going by Bashiok's logic of "LAN = more incentive to pirate," they shouldn't release Diablo 3 period, since its VERY EXISTENCE will entice pirates to acquire it.
Good lord, Bashiok.
As I've said, if you're so damn confident that Battle.net 2.0 is going to win over LAN/IP players, I'd say you're foolishly overconfident, because 0 ping servers and communities of people who aren't assholes don't exist, unless you guys at Blizzard have made a new invention called "Instant Speed Internet" and "Magically Make Everyone Behave Like An Intelligent Respectful Human Being."
The Battle.net community is full of embarrassingly low-IQ bot-running teenage stooges whose favorite pastimes are duping and griefing. They're the human sewage of gaming. And you want to force us to play with them, or at least force us to brush shoulders with them. Awesome.
I guess Blizzard knows how I want to play better than I do!
Well after Bashoik's statement, it seems I was very wrong.
Then again, this is Blizzard and we will never know until the end product. The statement that no lan = less piracy, isn't the answer. Those that want lan will pirate the game and play single player.
Can probably assume that they are pushing Battle.net 2.0 as the only multi player due to how much bloody advertising we'll have to sit through.
The Battle.net community is full of embarrassingly low-IQ bot-running teenage stooges whose favorite pastimes are duping and griefing. They're the human sewage of gaming. And you want to force us to play with them, or at least force us to brush shoulders with them. Awesome.
I 100% agree with this statement, however... you need to be more selective on whom and where you are playing. Diablo 2 had problems, but if you were selective or found a group of people to play with, you managed.
Whats is so simple about a lan partie.
1) pack up all your stuff
2) un pack all you stuff in your friends basement as you squeeze in there basement
3) have to set everything up
4)finally get to play
Bnet.
1) sign in and play
much shorter list to play, and it just as social, if not more.
Good for call of duty 4:modern warefare. Like i said and as many of us that dont think LAN is that important, we dont care it wont hurt us either way.
Last time i went to a LAN party was couple month ago and after i got there and it took over an hour to set everything up and play, it was al wasted time because we could the same thing over xbox live in the confort of our own homes, and we could still of talked with our headsets.
It's not this simple, in our lan parties we get together (1 hour to setup ? we take minutes to setup with our notebooks, someone just start the server game and everyone connects to it using wireless router ? what's there to take 1 hour ???), we bring food, beer, our notebooks, sometimes a movie, we get playing and drinking (drinking alone at home playing games with headsets is just not as fun), then we go out, do some barbecue, make out with our girls, play soccer whatever is available, some card game, then when it gets dark and we're wasted the few who can stand go back to play some more till next day, we don't do this as often as it sounds, because games with lan are old and new ones all lag a lot, but always a cool thing to do when there's no better option. How can online MP be more social than this, is beyond me. BTW, you or someone else pointed out before that getting 4/8 people to play multiplayer sucks, well, diablo 2 has maximum of 8 players in a game, what's the difference here ? SC games are maxed at 8 players too... don't see the problem with gathering 8 players in a lan at all... we usually get 6 players so I think it's good enough to play most games out there.
And for those against lan, as I said a MILLION times before, LAN/tcp-ip is the ONLY PROPER MULTIPLAYER option for ANYONE that's FAR FROM UNITED STATES/EUROPE, internet connections lag on distance, it's a fact, and will be a fact until lightspeed data transfer is invented and distributed around the globe, if this doesn't get into your heads then there's nothing I can do,
Bashiok can spend all his fingers typing into bnet forums that removing lan is an attempt to stop piracy/improve bnet, it doesn't matter, diablo 3 risks leaking and being on the torrent trackers before reaching shelves as any new game (sims 3, gta 4?), lan doesn't mean it gets pirated more.
As someone pointed out, if you don't want your software to be pirated, don't create it, this is just how it is.
Hurting legitimate customers is becoming common trend in piracy fight, it was always like that, pirate games are easier to run and sometimes have more options than an original copy, shouldn't it be the other way around ?
Look at the gears of war fiasco, legitimate owners of the game had their copies disabled and pirated games worked AOK, copy protections are hitting shelves all with bugs, the first patch for most games is copy protection issues being resolved...
Sins of solar empire has zero protections, and sold quite a lot of copies, could sell more if the game was better tho, I disliked it a lot (played 10 minutes and couldn't go further) so I didn't buy it, otherwise if it was a game I enjoyed playing I'd sure buy it... I had no reasons to buy d2 since I don't play on bnet, but I have it... blizzard even recently removed cd-checks from d2 and sc1, which was a good move IMO, preventing me from using my no-cd cracks and keeping my cds well guarded, I even tried bnet for a while since now I could login there as the executable was original, didn't like it tho, too laggy.
I agree completely with CaptainDingo and what Crono said. I highly doubt this will discourage pirates more so than to piss of potential paying costumers.
Wow, I just went to bnet forums and noticed people complaining there too (3 threads on the first page), plus, gamespot has news on sc2 without lan, and has almost 800 replies already, most negative, maybe blizz will get a hint... maybe not, I hope they do though.
Well after Bashoik's statement, it seems I was very wrong.
Then again, this is Blizzard and we will never know until the end product. The statement that no lan = less piracy, isn't the answer. Those that want lan will pirate the game and play single player.
I'm not sure why people don't see the different layers of piracy and what blizzard is trying to eliminate with the exclusion of LAN. It's like people see "piracy" and immediately think "cracked game on pirate bay" or something similar, when in actuality piracy takes many forms.
here is a quote directly from a thread on destructoid about the lack of LAN in SC2:
Super lame. I just recently started to enjoy playing PC games over LAN now that I have enough friends with laptops (or the drive to bring their towers over). It's awesome because I can just install my copy of Starcraft on everybody else's computer so not everyone has to own it.
This is clearly what they are trying to cut down on. No, a lack of LAN won't necessarily keep a pirate from downloading the game off pirate bay to play single player. But when it comes to people getting together to play when they find out "Oh hey if we want to play together online we will need our own copies of the game." they are more likely to actually purchase the game than if LAN were included and one copy could be installed on 15 different comps.
Next point:
For all you people "far from the US / Europe" wtf, you don't think blizzard will have fairly frequent server distribution? The only places which can REALLY complain seem like they would be India / Aus / South Africa. as everyone else will likely be within a reasonable distance from a server.
And even then, people from Aus claiming they can't play online because of the distance are full of it. I played WoW from Japan for two years, playing almost exclusively with AUS players. Yeah, we had ping in the tripple digits, but that really didn't impede playing in any significant way.
Finally, Blizzard is likely trying to monetize battle.net 2.0:
We don't know how they're going to do it yet, but they're probably under a lot of pressure to make a profitable game, and it is likely they are going to try to monetize b.net. no one really knows how they will do so, and there will likely be some "free" component to it, but they have a legitimate interest in getting people onto the service, and no matter what they do people will be crying foul. (either: OMG Blizzard is screwing SP players by withholding content , Blizzard is just greedy selling the game is enough, etc. etc.)
Captaindingo:
I first typed out this gure responce to your sir, and throwing insult toward at every corner as you through toward people like me who enjoy battlenet, and in my opinion what the game was made for. But i desided i am not going to sink to your level. If you want to talk about how people act sir, i would first look at how you act, and no matter what swearing is not needed, especially on a public forum.
Crono:
I understand living far away from the server does cause you alot of lag. but here is the thing, if where you lived was a big enough target area blizzard would spend the money to make sure you could enjoy battlenet like the us and europe. But if they dont think sales will support the cost of mainaining these servers they are not going to place them.
To everyone else.
acorse most replies to a subject like this will have complaints. People will go far as they can to make sure there complaint is heard, but tend to speek less when something is done right. I am a supervisor where i werk, and i deal with people all day. I might get 1 person to say something positive about the product my company supplies or the egent that helped them to the hundred complaints and issues. People will naturally complain before they think positive. People who dont play LAN is looking at this and is saying "who cares." so in theory for every one of you complaining there is probally atleast 10 other people that does not give a rat's ***.
the only thing that has been mention that why lan play is even remotely better is less lag. Crono i am glad you and all your friends have notebooks, and use a wireless router (in which way will cause some ping and possible lag) but not of use have that convienece. I use a desktop i built myself, i have to unhook the everything to take it somewhere else, and it is a pain. You from what you described you live the dream, having your girl ready and waiting to have a make out party, go you! in the world i live in if i and the guys get together to do something like that my girls is gone shopping with her friends and tries to get far away from a dork behavior.
5zigen you beet me to it, lol.
For all you people "far from the US / Europe" wtf, you don't think blizzard will have fairly frequent server distribution? The only places which can REALLY complain seem like they would be India / Aus / South Africa. as everyone else will likely be within a reasonable distance from a server.
Well, D2 is years old, WoW is years old, and south america/ australia still don't have batte.net servers, even after a lot of players already asked for it.
And even then, people from Aus claiming they can't play online because of the distance are full of it. I played WoW from Japan for two years, playing almost exclusively with AUS players. Yeah, we had ping in the tripple digits, but that really didn't impede playing in any significant way.
Having ping in tripple digits, it's playable, but why settle with tripple digits if I can LAN/tcp-ip local friends and keep ping on double digits ? why is it better any way ?
This is clearly what they are trying to cut down on. No, a lack of LAN won't necessarily keep a pirate from downloading the game off pirate bay to play single player. But when it comes to people getting together to play when they find out "Oh hey if we want to play together online we will need our own copies of the game." they are more likely to actually purchase the game than if LAN were included and one copy could be installed on 15 different comps.
Well, WoW is subscription based private servers, WoW has no LAN, what prevents me from downloading WoW right now, download the server app, install it on my local LAN and play for free with my friends ?
I understand living far away from the server does cause you alot of lag. but here is the thing, if where you lived was a big enough target area blizzard would spend the money to make sure you could enjoy battlenet like the us and europe. But if they dont think sales will support the cost of mainaining these servers they are not going to place them.
I think the south american continent is a big enough area ? Plus, if blizzard doesn't want to support my area, they shouldn't expect to make sales over here either.
in the world i live in if i and the guys get together to do something like that my girls is gone shopping with her friends and tries to get far away from a dork behavior.
too bad for you if your girl doesn't like D2 ;) I do confess I had to search a lot tho :(
well, when we gather together she's not the only girl too, the other guys' girls go too, they watch a movie/talk girl stuff when we play a little, sometimes joining us, well, it's a normal "party", we're all older, we all work, we're all developers/nerds, so we all have our notebooks, that's why it's simple to us, I'll probably move to a new house in a condo by the end of the year with more space so I hope this stuff gets more commom :)
crono whe you said,
"Having ping in tripple digits, it's playable, but why settle with tripple digits if I can LAN/tcp-ip local friends and keep ping on double digits ? why is it better any way ?"
if you are asking why we think battlenet is better than LAn i will list resons why.
1) Although, i understand getting to gether with friends will alway be more socialable, face to face interaction is very important, but playing online with eachother we can technically get to gether more than having to go to someone house. Plu there is the thing that i have people i like to play with that lives in different states, it not something i can do with these friends on a weekly or even monthyl bases.
2) You get to meet new people and make new "friends." I use that word loosely in this case, because my dad always told me a true friend is some one you can fully trust, and you will be lucky to count your friends on one hand. when i got older, i relize how true that is, but it dopes not change the fact meeting new people is awsome. Your not going to like everyone, thats the world.
I auctually as an example. i met one of me new friends playing wow, we partied together to do some quest togther and we played for hours, and started playing with eachother every night because we logged on at the same time. Through talking with her i found out she lived only 15 minutes away and made a new gaming friend, and the first gaming friend that was a female. you can not do that as much playing lan.
3) Learning and growing as a player in my opinion is much faster. People learn and discover stuff at different rates, when you play LAN, other than people trying to describe stuff on a forum, your only go to learn stuff as the fastest person in your group. I played single player on diablo for the first year or two, due to the fact i was still a kid and we did not have internet. I learned more in one month on bnet than i learned the whole time i played SP.
4)Item collecting. I know you can MF effectivly on SP, but when your really looking for a certain items, it is much faster to trade for it. Yes people bot and cheat, and not everything is legit, but to get it i did have to trade something off that person valued equally or even more. Wether or not the person who had the itme got it legitly or not, i myself did get it legitly, because i worked for it myself.
5)extra content and ladder play. I like having more stuff to do, uber diablo and the pandomanium event is awsome, the ability to find more grear, extra runewords and uniques items available to me. I like having to restart, i like haveing to rebuild my wealth, this to me cause alot of rep[lay value. The offer this stuff to us because they want us to play on there server and there terms. you complain about not be able to legitly do this stuff, it your choice not to be able to do it.
Okiimatsu:
I do not feel threatened. I really dont care if the option is there or not there. Infact i find this argument funny, because to me Lan is out of date, and is not needed at all.
LAN is out of date? Have you ever held a LAN party or been to one? They are great fun. Trash talking to your buddy across the room beats trash talking on ventrillo/teamspeak any day.
LAN will continue to exist for as long as people continue to play together in rooms, cafes, etc.
Will d3 support LAN? Probably not, same reason why Hellgate:London did not, they don't want the code to be able to be more readily hacked. I still see a single player being built in for that crowd.
LAN is out of date? Have you ever held a LAN party or been to one? They are great fun. Trash talking to your buddy across the room beats trash talking on ventrillo/teamspeak any day.
LAN will continue to exist for as long as people continue to play together in rooms, cafes, etc.
Will d3 support LAN? Probably not, same reason why Hellgate:London did not, they don't want the code to be able to be more readily hacked. I still see a single player being built in for that crowd.
Yes, if you read all my post i have been to many lan parties, i also explained why i believe them to be out of date. Your right it might never go away, atleast until all publisher follow suit, which i can see that happening. I would say expect more and more games not having lan play available, some bigger title might hold unto a bit longer than others, but this option is pretty out to date if they have a new way fro people to play with eachother, especially when they do not have to be in the same room.
Starving_Poet
01-07-2009, 23:37
Including LAN DOES NOT INCREASE PIRACY.
Just like how removing DRM DOES NOT INCREASE PIRACY.
However, adding DRM and removing LAN WILL increase piracy. I can guarantee you this 100%. The more invasive a company tries to get with it's copy-protection, the fast the game will be hacked and distributed. If you argue otherwise, then you run in the wrong circles (or technically, the right circles).
Heck, Diablo 3 could be BNET only and require a DNA sample-check to play and it would be cracked within a month of release.
lone_wolf
01-07-2009, 23:43
So basically less options are good for you because blizzard said so??
And being boxed in one one single multiplayer platform is great becaue stuff never happens to servers or the net as a whole......
Give me a break what the heck happened to critical thinking or seeing through bull****?
Lan makes in easier to crack the game?
Yeah but so does single player do you want that part of the game to go next?
Just asking because draconian DRM and anti piracy mesurements have had such a steller success rate lately i am in awe. But perhaps you love games that you cant install more then 3 times ever or that require you to be online to play single player on your own computer or you can install the gam3e but only where the game itself dictate that it should be installed.
Some of us like to play the games we have brough without getting crap from the game companies all the time. I guess we are a dying breed:coffee:
Sadly i forsee a future where the more mature bnet crowd is hiding in HC private games. While the trash you have to wade through to even see a decent human being, will be enough to make those of us over 25 say screw it and walk away in disgust. A bnet without duping, hacking, exploits, scum, whitetrash without the slightest sense of grammar or common sense, compleatly trashed economy, rush mentality, Greifing etc would be nice but then again dreaming is cheap.
The fact that a lot of people have bounded togheter and formed whole communities around this game where they try to find somewhat decent people to play with shows one of the big flaws with the argument that once we have the new bnet 2.0 everthing will be ok. No matter how much the hardware change peoples behaviour wont and whena lot of us would rather not interact with 85-95% of the player base all arguments that is posted to show how great bnet is will fall before deaf ears just as our arguments for why Lan should be included probebly is falling for deaf ears on your side.
Mad Mantis
02-07-2009, 00:14
One of the web comics I like to read had an interesting bit on this move to exclude LAN in StarCraft 2 and by extension Diablo 3.
Gu Comics (http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20090630)
When Blizzard announced that StarCraft II would be split up and sold as three separate games, I didn't see Blizzard. I saw an Activision inspired money grab designed to capitalize on our fandom and desire for the game. And where Blizzard would like me to believe that pulling LAN support is a way to ensure "a quality multiplayer experience" and of fight piracy. The cynic in me sees something completely different.
By forcing us to use Battle.net we can be monitored, data mined, and subjected to other company advertising. Converted nicely from base-destroying, micro-managing, twitch gamers into little birds chirping hungrily for the worms being fed to us. Yeah it's a cynical view of the situation. But Notice how I've only applied the position to myself. I'm not saying this is how it is. I'm saying this is how I see it. And since I've already put myself out on the firing range, let me just go ahead and paint myself as a target.
This is no longer the Blizzard I knew. This is something different; something that reeks a little too strongly of Activision. It just feels like the focus is no longer on the fan. That focus has narrowed to shine more specifically on our wallets.
There are so many gamers out there that can weave stories of brutally long LAN sessions playing Starcraft; owning and getting owned, over and over again. No Battle.net. No internet connection required. Now, they will have to go online to play against someone sitting right next to them. And in my grumpily myopic view of things, it has little to nothing to do with pirates or quality gaming experience. It's all about limiting our freedom to game without the company's interference.
Some people will like this change. And that's fine. I'm just pointing out that this doesn't feel like something the old Blizzard would do to us. And that, obviously, makes me grumpy.
Starving_Poet
02-07-2009, 00:18
Truer words, thar not be!
Kiroptus
02-07-2009, 00:19
The thing is... how long do you think that extremely popular and awaited games such as Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 wont be hacked to emulate the LAN feature?
Quite sure It wont take long after the game is released. So in the end the exclusion of LAN didnt do much.
Lone_Wolf
I never said less features is better, stop putting words in my mouth, i am saying the lack of the LAN feature is not a big deal. You know the reason they gave to why LAN is not included probaaly is not the only reason, but this is not a needed feature any more.
you also right, Bnet probally will go down, and we will loose play, Stuff happens. In WOW if the server i had played on chrashed or was down, i jumped on another server or found something else to do, sometime something else i should be doing instead.
you know with your attitude given, playing with you would not be to much fun either. Welcome to the world, no one is perfect. Beside just because some one has bad grammer or is consider white trash as you say does not make them less of a person then you are. Watch out, if it rains and your holding your head up so hi, you might drown.
your experience and what you will get out of it, will be based on your opinions going in on it. If you going in expecting somethin to suck, it is going to. your choice not to interact with 85-95% of the people only hurts you and your experience. Not everyone is a great person, and people tend to let there emotions out while playing games online, build a bridge already.
I have read everything you guys have typed, and responded to alot of your all's post. I am not deaf, I am not stupid, I have been wrong beofore and i know i will be wrong again. But most of your reason have been lack luster at best, mostly repeating the same thing over and over. (and i know i have repeated stuff to, usually to repond to what you repeated though.)
Battlenet LAGS
People Suck
the charecter getting erased for inactivity
adds in the game
sorry if i missed one but that summs it up. LAN does help support piracy, as some one else mentioned this does not have to include people hacking the game, this helps reduce people from sharing the game with there friends so they can lan together. If you are going to hack or steel the game, you have no right to voice an opinion.
LAN is out of date. LAN was made because internet access was not readily available as it is today. When was the last time you played with somebody outside of your country, or state? How often? Probally not much. IF your not in a location where you can get internet access, or if you live out of the country and dont have great server to conect too.... that sucks for you. they are making this game to meet as many possible, and it not there fault you dont have the internet, and you lag to much when your online.
BTW, you are not getting crap from blizzard they are giving you all the same opertunites as everyone else, you have the choice how you want to play and if you do not want to play on bnet, have fun playing with your self! The more i read in this thread about you complain about the lack of what i really do consider a non-needed feature, the more i am starting to hope they will not reconsider.
and if you want to download a program to make this feature yourself i really hope you dont get some bad virus or something and totaly trash your pc.
Give me a break what the heck happened to critical thinking or seeing through bull****?
Sometimes I wonder the same damn thing. I don't get the whole "lan entitlement" argument, which is what it all boils down to because there is a huge lack of critical thinking and nonsense being spouted off like "Anti DRM measures increase piracy!" without looking at it in a more critical manner.
Yeah some games come out with no DRM, that's true. Zenoclash and Demigod both did. I don't know how Zenoclash faired, but I know at one point there were 4 pirated accounts for every legitimate account of Demigod. I'm not sure how that supports the proposition that DRM doesn't work at all.
And enough with the "I CAN ASSURE YOU 100% TRUE THAT GAMES WITH DRM AND LAN HAVE MUCH MORE PIRACY THAN GAMES WITHOUT IT." because you can't make that assurance. You're making that up.
And enough with the conspiracy theorizing and demonizing the online playerbase. Yeah, a lot of people are idiots online, but that is not limited to Battle.net. It is a law of the internet in general, and this forum itself is not immune to it.
And in the end the whole "I hate people" argument is going to fall on deaf ears no matter what, because you can still play alone online (while still doing things like participating in the economy at large, etc.) And you can still play with your friends online. And there is always the chance of meeting people worth meeting online, even if it's a 1/20 chance (5%) that really isn't that bad.
The only real argument for LAN is ping, which is a dubious argument at best.
and the GU commic commentary is nonsensical hyperbole. I particularly like the part where he refers to "us" and then claims he is only talking about himself. Data mining, used in the right way can be a good thing. It can add value for players, help balance things in the long run, and help the developer determine which type of hardware they should develop games for.
I honestly wish D3 had no single player component at all, and they adopted a guild-wars'esque server type (with more focus on single play, of course). Single player inclusion will no doubt bring endless whining about balance and the unfair inclusion of online features.
raveharu
02-07-2009, 00:39
What's the use of whining?
You get your thoughts heard but it still will not change anything :rolleyes:
Blizzard says no to LAN, if you're not happy, then don't play D3. They don't care, we don't care.
Starving_Poet
02-07-2009, 00:48
What irks me more are not people who think LAN is useless; but people who try to argue a point without researching it.
This is fact, there is no argument:
DRM increases piracy.
http://www.digitalrenaissance.se/2008/10/02/sony-admits-drm-increase-piracy/
http://www.consumingexperience.com/2008/08/diginomics-why-drm-promotes-piracy-why.html
http://www.headweb.com/en/124242/all-blog-entries/2008-11-20/abandoning-drm-dont-increase-piracy/
http://blog.blakeperdue.com/2008/05/20/drm-free-music-doesnt-affect-piracy/
You spout about lack of critical thinking; look in the mirror. Listen to the people in the industry who know what they're talking about.
starving poet to basically sum up your links, basicaly they read DRM does not work, people just turned to more illegal routes. this does not mean they should take this away but inprove it. adding more measure and improving the ones they have are the only thing they can do to decrease piracy. There attempts might not be all amazing but it better than them not trying to prevent this stuff at all.
lone_wolf
02-07-2009, 01:27
Ishtor my last post where not directed toward you but the posters of this thread at large.
as for repeating arguments yeah we all do that one you like to use is that Lan is outdated. Yet i have not seen anyone being able to host a major tournament in any way or form without the help of Lan.
Could Dreamhack be done with no Lan?
i would love to see and good answer to that question. I would also hear from the rest of you where the limit goes when it comes to things being outdated. Because you know your average broadband connection is outdated by far. 0.5 to 24MB broadband is outdated if we are going by whats the good connections today.
http://www.thelocal.se/7869/20070712/
ohh wow i can assure you that all of your internet connections are outdated since you have less then 40GB internet broadband.
Face it not everyone in this world have access to the latest stuff or the fastest connections to internet.
@5zigen do more research then. Starving_poet just gave you a starting point. You can argue all you want against it but unless you have some new facts that show us a connection betwwen Lan being an option in a game and increased piracy your argument are just silly.
I would love to see it:coffee:
Demonize the playerbase.... well do a test then just for fun, join 1000 random games and try to play with the people you find there. Then come back and tell the rest of us how many people you would be willing to play with on a regular basis.
I have already done this i found 7 people total that i could imagine playing with ever again.
Even though i can play alone in bnet i would still have to deal with Lag, random dropouts and disconnections for no apperent reason.
Or mayby there is no basis for the fact that strafers rarely equip their torches on bnet:whistling:
Yay lets give the world yet another game where the only people you see is the showoffs in town that do nothing but dance, fool around or use the game as a gigantic chatroom. I must say if that is how you want D3 to end up i can understand how you dont care for Lan to be an option. I for one likes to play my games perhaps you dont
Kiroptus
02-07-2009, 01:45
I dont feel that sorry for the loss of LAN in Diablo 2. The game is based on loot and now D3 will also be based around cooperation plus hopefully there will be a more sane economy, so yes, the loss of LAN is bad but not that bad.
But in Starcraft 2, now that was an overkill. Probably the first Multiplayer RTS that doesnt have lan support. Plus the Koreans who are great programmers will certainly find a illicit way to create LAN for SC2. Quite a shame for Blizzard to be that naive.
Yay lets give the world yet another game where the only people you see is the showoffs in town that do nothing but dance, fool around or use the game as a gigantic chatroom. I must say if that is how you want D3 to end up i can understand how you dont care for Lan to be an option. I for one likes to play my games perhaps you dont
Enough with this BS grandstanding. You really think because you like to "play the game" more than other people who derive value from participating in the social aspect of the game makes you somehow superior to them? That's COMPLETE bs, along with the whole allegation that because you're "older" (you aren't, btw, you're probably the same age as the average D2 player, and likely younger than I am.) you're more wise and therefore your view and sensitivities are more important, because they aren't.
Poet posted links to 4 blogs where someone is claiming that DRM increases piracy. That is nothing. That is not evidence, that is assertion not unlike the assertion on these forums in the last few posts where people are saying unequivocally that removing LAN will increase piracy. One of them is somewhat well written but still never pulls itself out of assertion and into the realm of evidence because there is nothing backing it up other than the authors opinion.
The whole argument turns into a Nirvana Fallacy. That is, "It doesn't completely stop piracy, therefore it is pointless." which is complete and total BS. There are multiple levels and layers of piracy and while one measure might do well to curb one, it may do nothing against the others, and I don't know why that isn't acknowledged.
Also, the links that poet posted don't particularly apply to the type of DRM that is implied with the exclusion of LAN. They (primarily) came out of the 2008 / post 2008 outcry after the incredibly invasive DRM policies of EA and 2k (spore and bioshock, To my knowledge, the EA/Spore DRM cases are still being litigated pretrial.) They are all about the invasive DRM methods, like those which require online authentication for offline play, limiting the number of installs, and installing covert rootkits not disclosed in the software or the EULA. That is a FAR FAR FAR cry from the elimination of LAN, and in general, none of that has anything to do with the DRM argument.
Further, the lack of critical thinking being displayed is another logical falacy that if SOME DRM doesn't work ALL DRM doesn't work. In fact, the whole LAN argument is full of logical or argumentative falacies.
If you would like to reduce your argument to "I need to play multiplayer with zero ping" I will go ahead and say that's absurd, but LAN is the only way you are going to do it.
Once you get into the "Woe is me I can't handle the community" arguments you are sounding more and more like a hypochondriac who can't stand to be associated with any person. It sounds like a BS reason because limiting or removing your exposure to the people you find so objectionable is such an easy thing to do (which is why this argument always goes back to "the ping argument" which admittedly is the only good argument for inclusion of LAN even if it is suspect to claim that you need zero ping in the game.) Note that the entire issue of hacking and duping is also related to the quality of the company you keep, and it's just as easy to limit your exposure to both on battle.net as it is to limit your exposure via LAN and TCP/IP play.
In the end inclusion of LAN allows / promotes the most simple and fundamental form of piracy (installing the game (1 copy) on multiple computes and using LAN or TCP/IP or 3rd party programs like HAMACHI to connect them).
Yes, there's no metrics for this type of "lan party piracy" but to deny that it exists is foolish.
And how about this as evidence that going DRM free does not result in a less pirated game:
"Soon after the servers went live, testing determined that a mere 15 percent of the game's 120,000-strong simultaneously-connected user base had actually purchased the title. Like other Stardock titles, Demigod does not use disc-based copy protection."
That was from the developer of Demigod's blog.
sneakytails
02-07-2009, 02:32
Every time I have played a game at a LAN party that I have really liked I have went out and bought the game. This has been mentioned before and its true. If I want to install the game anywhere, anytime then I will need my own hard copy of the game. This is why I always buy the game because I like to support good work and I also love to collect game boxes.
I don't really care what the arguments are about LAN causing piracy because the very internet access thats being spouted as a major justification for LAN's disappearance creates and allows more piracy than LAN could ever hope to or ever will. Period.
LAN has always meant flexibility for me, thats the real reason I am sad to see it go. Because like I said, life happens. And life for me has not always been absolute access to broadband. This has allowed me to still play the game I love no matter what. What on earth is so wrong with MORE FLEXIBILITY?
Even when I had access to great broadband my brother and I would still get together on Sundays and have a Diablo 2 LOD LAN gaming session. There were over a dozen reasons why, many of which have been mentioned in this thread but some that have not been. I liked having that choice. Yes, "choice" because my world does not revolve around a single cable modem. Some of you get this. More than a few do not.
There seems to be two major camps developing in this thread. A old guard vs new guard mentality.
Its clear that blizzard is adopting the "new guard" approach. The everything is wired and the rest is just details theory but for a entirely different reason than most here are arguing for.
The quote posted by mad mantis sums this up perfectly. Thats the real scoop, the blizzard that I know is dead. The rest is just details.
Good luck with this thread. Thanks for the great posts.
5zigen great post, you said more than i could.
Sneakytail.
one question for you, you said
"Yes, "choice" because my world does not revolve around a single cable modem"
you had to use a router to conect your and your brother computer, why could you use that to connect on the internet together?
Did any of you who praise b.net and hate LAN ever considered yourselves in our (pro-lan) gamers position ?
Think about it, I live far from all bnet servers, if the game costs $50 in US, it will cost about $110 in my country (I'm not blaming blizz here, I'd pay this much if I could enjoy it as much as d2).
Then multiplayer option will have at best, 300 ms, to the person sitting right next to me.
How would you like it ?
Do you really expect the people in these places to pay for the game ?
So, if LAN is enabled, you have 9 out 10 players (again, who are not close to the super bnet servers) pirating a game, if it is not enabled, that 1 person that might actually buy the game, will just download it, since the only reason, using blizzard's logic, to buy the game, is battle.net, and bnet is lagged, then there's no reason to buy the game ?
It's not a matter of social interaction to me, I don't care for bnet community, if it was lag-free I could just create passworded games and ignore everyone else, it's a matter of lag, plain and simple, at least for me. I just tested d2 useast, ping was actually good now, averaging 200ms, peaking to 500ms, still, I prefer the 50ms peak lan thank you. I don't need any of the mentioned bnet "features", I like the way I play the game, and if d3 will not deliver what I like, why I should I buy it ?
The same thing happened to hellgate london, they announced lan, I was looking forward to it, and then they removed it, I never bothered to buy the game, which was good for me, as we all know the outcome of that game.
If you like bnet and don't suffer from lag, or if you don't care to pay $5000 on a PC to play a laggy game, go ahead enjoy d3, I'm sure it will be great, but don't say that I'm wrong on my terms, all I ask of blizzard is a chance to enjoy the game, they're makind d3 multiplayer focused and removing my multiplayer experience, so, maybe d3 is just not for me, maybe I'll enjoy it if hamachi server cracks gets released.
Crono you will be missed assuming since from your post you said you wont buy the gane now, so surely wou will not follow up on it anymore? sorry we disagreed on this. Really wish you would change your mind and just play bnet with the rest of us.
I dont preaise bnet, and i dont hate LAN, I just think LAN is out of date and we all need to move on, think of this as a step up from casssette tapes to cd players to MP3 players/ ipods. to me this is the same thing, and you never know to blizzard says something they might add a server even closer to you and i really hope they do.
lone_wolf
02-07-2009, 04:22
Enough with this BS grandstanding. You really think because you like to "play the game" more than other people who derive value from participating in the social aspect of the game makes you somehow superior to them? That's COMPLETE bs, along with the whole allegation that because you're "older" (you aren't, btw, you're probably the same age as the average D2 player, and likely younger than I am.) you're more wise and therefore your view and sensitivities are more important, because they aren't.
Poet posted links to 4 blogs where someone is claiming that DRM increases piracy. That is nothing. That is not evidence, that is assertion not unlike the assertion on these forums in the last few posts where people are saying unequivocally that removing LAN will increase piracy. One of them is somewhat well written but still never pulls itself out of assertion and into the realm of evidence because there is nothing backing it up other than the authors opinion.
The whole argument turns into a Nirvana Fallacy. That is, "It doesn't completely stop piracy, therefore it is pointless." which is complete and total BS. There are multiple levels and layers of piracy and while one measure might do well to curb one, it may do nothing against the others, and I don't know why that isn't acknowledged.
Also, the links that poet posted don't particularly apply to the type of DRM that is implied with the exclusion of LAN. They (primarily) came out of the 2008 / post 2008 outcry after the incredibly invasive DRM policies of EA and 2k (spore and bioshock, To my knowledge, the EA/Spore DRM cases are still being litigated pretrial.) They are all about the invasive DRM methods, like those which require online authentication for offline play, limiting the number of installs, and installing covert rootkits not disclosed in the software or the EULA. That is a FAR FAR FAR cry from the elimination of LAN, and in general, none of that has anything to do with the DRM argument.
Further, the lack of critical thinking being displayed is another logical falacy that if SOME DRM doesn't work ALL DRM doesn't work. In fact, the whole LAN argument is full of logical or argumentative falacies.
If you would like to reduce your argument to "I need to play multiplayer with zero ping" I will go ahead and say that's absurd, but LAN is the only way you are going to do it.
Once you get into the "Woe is me I can't handle the community" arguments you are sounding more and more like a hypochondriac who can't stand to be associated with any person. It sounds like a BS reason because limiting or removing your exposure to the people you find so objectionable is such an easy thing to do (which is why this argument always goes back to "the ping argument" which admittedly is the only good argument for inclusion of LAN even if it is suspect to claim that you need zero ping in the game.) Note that the entire issue of hacking and duping is also related to the quality of the company you keep, and it's just as easy to limit your exposure to both on battle.net as it is to limit your exposure via LAN and TCP/IP play.
In the end inclusion of LAN allows / promotes the most simple and fundamental form of piracy (installing the game (1 copy) on multiple computes and using LAN or TCP/IP or 3rd party programs like HAMACHI to connect them).
Yes, there's no metrics for this type of "lan party piracy" but to deny that it exists is foolish.
And how about this as evidence that going DRM free does not result in a less pirated game:
"Soon after the servers went live, testing determined that a mere 15 percent of the game's 120,000-strong simultaneously-connected user base had actually purchased the title. Like other Stardock titles, Demigod does not use disc-based copy protection."
That was from the developer of Demigod's blog.
My way of playing the game is in no way superior to others nor do i feel anything particular about those that want to chat away about various topics when they are in a game. I am in fact neutral towards them and what they practice. Yet at the same time i have no need to interact with them at all.
Some likes to be the center of attention at parties some me included just want to get the hell out of there. In case you have not figured it out yet through my posts and my forum name i am not a people person. It has nothing to do with age. I am 26 and as you say i should be at about the same age as most players of diablo 2. But then again its not a factor maturity is not directly connected to your age and that is why you can meet people in their sixties that act immature. I prefer to play with people from around the world via Lan that i know are mature enough that we all can have a good time and play the game as a party where we actually help eatch other out. Frankly i think you prefer the same maturity in those that you play with. Its just that you play on bnet.
As for the whole DRM piracy debate well yes the info that starving_poet posted does not give creditable evidence for that DRM increase piracy but then again i have yet to see the opposite proof being posted either. Saying that Lan will increase piracy without giving any proof of it is just as bad as the proof against it.
It also fails miserbly to explain why games that lack an Lan option still are cracked, some even before the game is released in all parts of the world.
Also im farely certain you know just as i do that the only way to ensure that a game cant be cracked is to never release it at all. Sure DRM in some way might stop some layers of piracy as you put it but it wont stop it all. After all humans are humans and if hackers find a target that is hard to crack it will only attract the attention of those that like to be the first to crack a program, game etc.
Rather then as you put it to reduce my argument to "I need to play multiplayer with zero ping" i like to reduce it to this:
"I like to play Multiplayer wherever i can, when i want to without having to depend on servers thousends on miles away to play with people that are sitting next to me"
Care to explain why i should go onto bnet for that?
As for the quality of the company you keep.... i find all my runes myself through several thousends LK runs and taking new chars to hellforge how do you find yours?
I guess you interact with the rest of the bnet crowd i dont becasue i cant count on that there runes offered there are legit. Call me crazy but that actually have a impact on how i play diablo 2. Others dont care becasue "everyone is doing it" i dont know where you stand on that issue but for me the fact that bnet is so full of dupes make the whole market something to avoid.
And why bring up the example of Demigod at all?
please show me where i say that a DRM free game is less pirated. It will be intresting to see.
I'm not sure why people don't see the different layers of piracy and what blizzard is trying to eliminate with the exclusion of LAN. It's like people see "piracy" and immediately think "cracked game on pirate bay" or something similar, when in actuality piracy takes many forms.
here is a quote directly from a thread on destructoid about the lack of LAN in SC2:
Super lame. I just recently started to enjoy playing PC games over LAN now that I have enough friends with laptops (or the drive to bring their towers over). It's awesome because I can just install my copy of Starcraft on everybody else's computer so not everyone has to own it.
This is clearly what they are trying to cut down on. No, a lack of LAN won't necessarily keep a pirate from downloading the game off pirate bay to play single player. But when it comes to people getting together to play when they find out "Oh hey if we want to play together online we will need our own copies of the game." they are more likely to actually purchase the game than if LAN were included and one copy could be installed on 15 different comps.
I see it's already too late for you and your mind has been poisoned by DRM advocates. I disagree that this is pirating. What's the next step? If you want to watch a DVD at home with your friends, first all your friends have to buy their own copy?
Finally, Blizzard is likely trying to monetize battle.net 2.0:
Yes, well this is the whole damn point, isn't it? Forget about piracy.
Reading Bashiok's quote I don't understand why they didn't make it online only and forget about SP altogether. He doesn't make sense at all there.
Cool? No.
Starving_Poet
02-07-2009, 14:35
starving poet to basically sum up your links, basicaly they read DRM does not work, people just turned to more illegal routes. this does not mean they should take this away but inprove it. adding more measure and improving the ones they have are the only thing they can do to decrease piracy. There attempts might not be all amazing but it better than them not trying to prevent this stuff at all.
No, what the links mean is the many developers have realized that the time and money spent trying to make DRM and anti-piracy measures could have been better spent elsewhere.
HD DVD encryption took thousands of man-hours to create. It was cracked in eight hours by one man. Those man-hours can not be taken back. Money can be recouped, but you can never get time and effort back.
This mindset is scary though. If something doesn't work, is proven not to work, you do not double-down on it. You step back, rethink the entire concept, and try again. Doubling down on something that doesn't work is the mindset that people have who willingly enslave themselves.
Crono you will be missed assuming since from your post you said you wont buy the gane now, so surely wou will not follow up on it anymore? sorry we disagreed on this. Really wish you would change your mind and just play bnet with the rest of us.
I dont preaise bnet, and i dont hate LAN, I just think LAN is out of date and we all need to move on, think of this as a step up from casssette tapes to cd players to MP3 players/ ipods. to me this is the same thing, and you never know to blizzard says something they might add a server even closer to you and i really hope they do.
Lan might be out of date I agree, but that's only true when you have some local servers, I too play CS at home, it authenticates and let me play with local people, lag free, in this case, I agree that LAN would not be needed, but that's not the case with diablo, is it ?
I'm afraid I'll have with d3 the same experience I had from hellgate london, diablo 3 single player will be what ?
Diablo 2 single player already miss a lot of content (I never seen an annihilus charm, uber diablo, or whatever else there is) that can be seen in bnet ladder/normal, and blizzard will probably increase this difference in diablo 3, that will leave diablo 3 single player look like a demo of the online game, the same thing happened to hellgate london, single player was completely despised by flagship studios, SP was bugged, had less content, patches with the same fixes that were in the online version would only come months later, and by the end of the company, multiplayer already had an expansion and single player was at version 1.4 (or 1.5 ?, I don't know) ridden with bugs, now the online servers are off and bugged/limited single player is the only thing left.
OF COURSE blizzard will not fail like FS, but I bet my d2 cd-keys that d3 bnet will have a lot more content than d3 SP.
That means blizzard is willing to spit on the face of it's whole SP/lan/tcp-ip community in exchange for it's "golden" bnet anti-piracy gaming ?
I doubt most of this community will simply make a move to bnet with a smile on the face.
They might as well remove single player from d3, since they don't expect anyone to play it, why waste time and money developing it ? Just concentrate on the online side and release the game sooner then.
Risingred
02-07-2009, 19:21
LAN is a thing of the past, the world changes and you have to move with it, or your jsut going to be left behind.
Actually, battle.net (the first iteration) is a thing of the past and we have all been left behind. I still get massive lag spikes and I live pretty close to the servers. I get random drops. Why? This isn't a game where you can settle for that. It isn't turn-based. It's a hack and slash and it's unnacceptable.
I play with my wife over LAN for Diablo II, it's the only way I could get her to play because b.net sucks so bad. I think it sucks that LAN is out of the picture and I understand the reasons why but the fact of the matter is that Blizzard needs to step up their game with server response or nobody outside of white land is going to buy it, excluding Australia who has gotten the classic shaft from blizzard forever now.
I don't know what their deal with sprint looks like but if they could at least put up some b.net servers where they have all the WoW servers then it would be in better shape.
I see it's already too late for you and your mind has been poisoned by DRM advocates. I disagree that this is pirating. What's the next step? If you want to watch a DVD at home with your friends, first all your friends have to buy their own copy?
there is a difference here.... from you and you friends sitting down in the same room watching the same movie on the same tv. you letting your friends install you game on a different computer that is not yours to you both can play on different computer at the same time, you could compare this to burning that dvd for your friend to watch anytime at home.
Actually, battle.net (the first iteration) is a thing of the past and we have all been left behind. I still get massive lag spikes and I live pretty close to the servers. I get random drops. Why? This isn't a game where you can settle for that. It isn't turn-based. It's a hack and slash and it's unnacceptable.
I play with my wife over LAN for Diablo II, it's the only way I could get her to play because b.net sucks so bad. I think it sucks that LAN is out of the picture and I understand the reasons why but the fact of the matter is that Blizzard needs to step up their game with server response or nobody outside of white land is going to buy it, excluding Australia who has gotten the classic shaft from blizzard forever now.
I don't know what their deal with sprint looks like but if they could at least put up some b.net servers where they have all the WoW servers then it would be in better shape.
there are alot of things wrong with the old battlenet. I know this, and i am part of the reason why along with so many others. All the hacks and bots running on d2 has to rewrite scripts and hack in the server. This is just like a virus pretty much. Pick it map hack bot, i have used all these at one time too, i did not always play legit. people dropping, the server lagging we are all to partly to blame (atleast the people who have cheated on bnet.) Distance has some stuff do about it. this is why they are building all these new better servers, and the reason they said they are going to fight this stuff as much as possible. You have no clue what bnet2.0 is going to be like, so your argument will be null-n-void until you get to test it out on SC2.
also BTW, if you try to stop something from happening and it does not work, it is better you tried than just to let it happen. Taken LAN away might not of been the best idea, but atleast there doing something. Also yes bnet is out of date that why they are release a new more current version.
Risingred
02-07-2009, 21:55
You have no clue what bnet2.0 is going to be like, so your argument will be null-n-void until you get to test it out on SC2.
I didn't have an arguement. I just said that they need to step up their game on battle.net if they're going to take out lan because, right now, it is a sub-par service, no matter whose fault that is.
As for not knowing anything about bnet2, we know some things. We are always getting little tidbits as well (http://starcraft.incgamers.com/blog/comments/rob-pardo-interview/). I will know a lot less than some of you since I have no interest in RTS and won't be getting SC2. The only reason I'm following that game is because it has a relationship with D3 in-so-far as they use the same online service.
Also yes bnet is out of date that why they are release a new more current version.
That does not mean that they'll have suitable servers for all of their fans.
lone_wolf
02-07-2009, 22:49
Ishtor what about having two computers in the same household eatch with their own unique diablo 2 discs. Or for that matter four computer with four unique diablo 2 discs like i have had in the past. Still a DRM issue? Not likely.
You see many of us dont have a problem with buying several copies of a game that we want to play with family and friends. The fun we get out of being able to sit next to eatch other and play the games we like togheter is well worth the investment.
I have brought 4 diablo 2 discs and 2 Lord of the Destruction discs so far. For diablo 3 i will buy only one and play alone because i dont feel the need to connect to a server that is halfway around the world. Just to play with someone that is sitting in the next room. Or as it has been in the past, in the same room as myself.
Care to explain to me what you think bnet 2.0 will offer that will be so great, that people will go through the extra hassle that playing through blizzards servers will add?
I would love to see some speculation about it.
Ishtor what about having two computers in the same household eatch with their own unique diablo 2 discs. Or for that matter four computer with four unique diablo 2 discs like i have had in the past. Still a DRM issue? Not likely.
hhhmmm.... there is nothing wrong with that. never said there was. your buying multiple games? when did i say that was wrong? i said sharing the disc between a huge group of people so you can play SP and lan anytime you want was wrong, not using multiple/one game(s) for your own pcs.
You see many of us dont have a problem with buying several copies of a game that we want to play with family and friends. The fun we get out of being able to sit next to eatch other and play the games we like togheter is well worth the investment.
your still getting an option to play with the person right next to you still, heck you can play with that person down the street at the same time (while there still at there home) your just rejecting this offer and bashing it.
I have brought 4 diablo 2 discs and 2 Lord of the Destruction discs so far. For diablo 3 i will buy only one and play alone because i dont feel the need to connect to a server that is halfway around the world. Just to play with someone that is sitting in the next room. Or as it has been in the past, in the same room as myself.
Care to explain to me what you think bnet 2.0 will offer that will be so great, that people will go through the extra hassle that playing through blizzards servers will add?
I would love to see some speculation about it.
I have bought 6 each, 4 of them are banned now because of my own stupidy. And thats the huge point i was trying to make before, nobody know what battlenet2.0 is going to offer or how well it is going to preform, so to complain about something as stupid like this is dumb because you only see what you want. I am sure if they are taking this option out, that they will either make the new battlenet better for you people that live so far away, add new server closer to you, or sadly they might not think your area is not big enough to support. Honestly i am hoping for option 1 or 2 for you guys, because i really dont want you all to miss the multiplayer experiance.
Starving_Poet
03-07-2009, 01:11
I would love to see some speculation about it.
Blizzard techs have found a way to make electrons move faster than light, thereby bridging time itself in order for you to have a lag free environment.
In fact, under ideal circumstances, you'll have negative lag, in which you'll see your character move before you tell it to.
Blizzard techs have found a way to make electrons move faster than light, thereby bridging time itself in order for you to have a lag free environment.
In fact, under ideal circumstances, you'll have negative lag, in which you'll see your character move before you tell it to.
lol that made me laugh.... a game that plays itself, not sure if i would like that or not.
lone_wolf
03-07-2009, 03:05
Ishtor i live in the same city where one of the main servers for battle net in Europe is located. My location is hardly the issue here. Besides i said that i wanted speculation about bnet 2.0 since no one knows how it will be yet :thumbup:
By the way Starving _poet that was great:lol2:
I for one hope that blizzard has lerned something from wow and that they actually have realized that alot of their playerbase live in a location outside of North America and Europe. Heck i can dream cant i because if anything the recent news about SC2 has though me that what blizzard is doing to that game is upsetting one of the most fanatic and huge part of their player base.
Seriously someone with a bit more skills in marketing and customer relations should tell them that taking away something that have ensured that there are now several tv channels in south Korea dedicated to showing matches in SC1 is kind of a bad move to put it mildly.
But then again i am just a part of the playerbase its not like i see the anger boil anywhere at all(this is sarcasm for those that missed the point).
You know what the fun thing is Ishtor?
I have enjoyed playing on bnet for years, but if you ask me it all went downhill after the expansion arrived. So i quit becasue i felt it was simply to much of a hassle to find good quality players in my timezone.
I hope you are right about bnet 2.0 being great i really do. Its just that life has though me that things rarely work out as great as we hope.
here is my thing lone_wolf.
I have played diablo since it first came out, i have played all the warcraft games, i never really played starcraft because i dont enjoy futuristic games to much. Blizzard really has never disapoint me, i really do believe blizzard thinks quality of quanity is better. Although til recently i did not now about the activision merger (which i am not happy about either, but there not much we will do.) Blizzard has been working on D3 for a long time now, and it to the point where it has been anounced for a great amount of time too.
I have full faith that blizzard will release a product that everyone one will be happy with. Yes the removing of LAN, which to me would not be a hard feature to include, might not of been removed for the best reason (atleast the reason they have given us so far) I am sure that they have a good idea what they are doing.
I really think the issue is, we all known about D3 for a while, and it been a long time since we got an great update. ( the fallen thing was kool, but that excited me for a couple days at best ) We know are staring to nit pick at thing we dont like and fully understand. Hopefull after Blizzcon, we will get some more information on this subject and BN2.0.
I am sure if they took LAN out, that BN2.0 will be something that will be able to really replace that feature. After i started on Bnet, i never went back to playing SP. I think it works, and does everything i need for a great multiplayer experience. I understand not everyone feels this way.
either way, these are things i would like to see in bnet2.0.
1) better, more and more secure servers. I used to play with hacks, after getting tired of having to buy new games, i started to play legit and enjoy it even more.
2)Better game searches and more organized. I would like it if the had a system you could look for dueling games, trading, leveling and progression, while also choosing which difficulty to look at. Maybe even away to filter how long the game has been made.
3) this kinda of feeds of three, ability to declare what type of game you make wether it is for tradeing, dueling or leveling/progression. where the trading and dueling could have more people in it.
4) audio support, maybe something to let you actually talk to the people in the same game as you, or people in your friendlist or something, so we are not forced to use a 3rd party program.
that to me would be awsome.
Risingred
03-07-2009, 14:04
4) audio support, maybe something to let you actually talk to the people in the same game as you, or people in your friendlist or something, so we are not forced to use a 3rd party program.
that to me would be awsome.
I think that's confirmed, if not incredibly likely. They've said before that they plan on adding VOIP to SC2, and it's in WoW (but it sucks badly) so I think it's fair to say that it may be in D3 bnet.
The only thing I'll like about bnet2.0, that will make me shut up about lack of LAN, is south american servers announced, I might even pay for some months of WoW if they do that, so I play WoW waiting for d3 release, otherwise, bnet2.0 for me will be as good as bnet1.0, and that's not a good thing.
red_beard_neo
03-07-2009, 18:26
So if there's no offline multiplayer, what becomes of the mod community? Either solo play on a mod, or play exactly as Blizzard commands you? What happens to those who'd like to play the same mod together?
lone_wolf
03-07-2009, 19:07
they are screwed until a workaround is found
This is in regards to SC2, but it's quite a lot of ppl already...
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LANSC2
there is a difference here.... from you and you friends sitting down in the same room watching the same movie on the same tv. you letting your friends install you game on a different computer that is not yours to you both can play on different computer at the same time, you could compare this to burning that dvd for your friend to watch anytime at home.
That's why I called it the *next* step. There are things we can and cannot do and installing a game on multiple computers in my own home is certainly a thing I can and will do without having to put on an eye patch.
also BTW, if you try to stop something from happening and it does not work, it is better you tried than just to let it happen. Taken LAN away might not of been the best idea, but atleast there doing something.
Well no, it's better they didn't try. If you don't know how to fix it, keep your hands in your pockets. I believe the saying "throw out the baby with the bath water" applies here.
Long time lurker and diablo 2 player here. Just felt the need to post. I have my legit diablo 2 & lod and i have only played single player & LAN since i began to play. This mindset of if you are not playing on b.net you are a potential pirate really ticked me off. Blizzard of past wouldn't cripple their game for fear of piracy. Just to let Blizzard know that my interest towards Diablo 3 suddenly waned by this move.
Well no, it's better they didn't try. If you don't know how to fix it, keep your hands in your pockets. I believe the saying "throw out the baby with the bath water" applies here.
I would really disagree. if you know of a issue and do nothing, your just adding to the promblem. Not doing anything just makes the issue worse. It is better to fail and learn from your mistake then to be lazy and scared. If they try one thing and it does not work, they now know they need to try something else.
Long time lurker and diablo 2 player here. Just felt the need to post. I have my legit diablo 2 & lod and i have only played single player & LAN since i began to play. This mindset of if you are not playing on b.net you are a potential pirate really ticked me off. Blizzard of past wouldn't cripple their game for fear of piracy. Just to let Blizzard know that my interest towards Diablo 3 suddenly waned by this move.
No one ever said everyone SP/LAN person is a pirate, that would be like saying every bnet person is a botter. Thats not the case, they are jsut trying to figure out how they can atleast limit the issue.
also with a petition like they have for SC2, if you start on for diabloe i sure you guys could get enough signatures for your LAN play, I would even sign it like i said, i dont care if that option is there, to me though its an option that is not fully needed. But if make other people appy i would be more than happy to sign something like that for you guys.
red_beard_neo
05-07-2009, 07:11
I would really disagree. if you know of a issue and do nothing, your just adding to the promblem. Not doing anything just makes the issue worse. It is better to fail and learn from your mistake then to be lazy and scared. If they try one thing and it does not work, they now know they need to try something else.
Discretion is the better part of valor. Being smart enough to know when not to act is better than lashing out blindly just to look like you're doing something.
I would really disagree. if you know of a issue and do nothing, your just adding to the promblem. Not doing anything just makes the issue worse. It is better to fail and learn from your mistake then to be lazy and scared. If they try one thing and it does not work, they now know they need to try something else.
You believe this even for such draconian measures? That's sad.
@stephan
Here is the thing, something like this is an issue. No one has any idea how to stop it. To sit back and to not do anything is just plain stupid and lazy. If you owned a store and theft was an issue, not knowing how to stop it, are you telling me you would just sit back and let it happen and you would not try to stop it? No, that's money your losing, your going to try to do anything from loosing it. You might not always make the best choices, but at least you did something.
If nobody never did anything because they were to afraid to mess up, we would have anything, we as people learn from our mistakes, and these "draconian measures" as you call them, might not be the correct solution, but it better than nothing. No, what i am saying is not sad, it life get used to it. the world is a messy place, if you want to deal with it you better be prepared to get messy.
LAN play is being removed to try and prevent piracy, among other reason i am sure. you might not like it or think this is stupid, but here is the big difference, blizzard has not made so many great games, and been so successful because of making dumb decisions. I think they have a little bit more credibility than you do.
You see this idea to forbid LAN gaming to fight piracy, as every other anti-piracy idea ever invented, will just hurt customers and will not work.
The game will still be pirated and if the game is worth it I bet someone will develop the hamachi server to play LAN with it.
So Blizzard is just starting to act like EA, maybe it's because of activion, who knows.
Ishtor, remember that Blizzard credibility is good on making games, not on preventing them from getting pirated :/
Now that think about it, the only 4 (or 2 ?) games I have ever seen to actually get a working anti-piracy system seem to be Armed Assault (ArmA) 1 and 2, and Sacred 1 and 2. Every other game I tried, I managed to get it to work without authenticating or the cd in the drive.
I think the cracking groups must respect these serial only games with unlimited authentication, it's always harder to find cracks for these games, so maybe that's the way to fight piracy after all, I bet it would work a lot better than "no lan". These are games are better too because we don't need to crack them to play without the cds and the unlimited authentications are good to have (I already spent 1 spore and mass effect authentications and I'm afraid to install the games again on my machine as I'm using windows 7 beta, not nice heh?, my vista ultimate key is also spent already, whenever I install it I have to dial microsoft :( )
My idea to stop piracy will be the best ever, not easy as adding lame protections or removing features from games, but far more effective, hunt down the cracking sites/groups and you're done.
Risingred
06-07-2009, 02:35
My idea to stop piracy will be the best ever, not easy as adding lame protections or removing features from games, but far more effective, hunt down the cracking sites/groups and you're done.
You make something that is incredibly complex and difficult seem simple. How is the RIAA doing in court these days?
@stephan
Here is the thing, something like this is an issue. No one has any idea how to stop it. To sit back and to not do anything is just plain stupid and lazy. If you owned a store and theft was an issue, not knowing how to stop it, are you telling me you would just sit back and let it happen and you would not try to stop it? No, that's money your losing, your going to try to do anything from loosing it. You might not always make the best choices, but at least you did something.
I'm afraid you just don't get it. It's not what they do, it's how they do it. If they think alienating a large part of their paying customer base is worth eliminating a large part of their non-paying customer base, so be it.
LAN play is being removed to try and prevent piracy, among other reason i am sure. you might not like it or think this is stupid, but here is the big difference, blizzard has not made so many great games, and been so successful because of making dumb decisions. I think they have a little bit more credibility than you do.
The word would be 'despite'. Despite their stupidity Blizzard managed to make a few good games. Only someone who couldn't pass an economics 101 class could conjure up Diablo Clone to battle duped SoJs.
@crono
Blizzard track record goes far beyond making the game, it how they market it and make us want it. I will use Diablo III as an example. we don't even know a release date but we all want to play it so bad, we come to forums like this to post our comments, opinion, and what the other classes my be. They spoon feed us enough information just to make us more hungry so when we actually get the game, we crave it. And knowing they make great games and don not release crap makes us want it even more.
@stephan
its not like they are taking multi player option totally out, they are given us a more up to date option. I understand you all like the LAN option, but it not needed. And if not having LAN will keep you from buying a great game. I am not dumb, i get the point your trying to make, the thing is i think you LAN lovers are so stubborn to change your ways, your like an old grumpy man that think his old tv that does not even display a colored picture is still good enough. Open your eyes and you mind, the world is full of people you can meat and get along with, LAN does not offer this.
Blizzard might not have a lot of good games, but there great games, all having a huge replay value and a great following. There are people playing diablo 1 and 2, along with all 3 Watercraft games and star craft. Quantity is better than quality by far. Doing something like the diablo clone was a great idea. The way diablo II was already set up, stopping stuff like that was impossible, so they used to there advantage. I ask you what background you have to say your idea to fix the issue would be better, and please do share your ideas. I bet they will suck even worse.
FireFiend
06-07-2009, 06:03
I'm not bothered by the lack of LAN, TCP/IP one bit.
Sure, I've played LAN games, TCP/IP games, but in almost every one of those situations I could have gotten my friends to play along with me on battle.net.... except for when those friends were playing with pirated copies of the game.
LAN/TCP/IP being gone from the game certainly isn't a good thing, because it provides fewer options, but if Blizzard's version of DRM is lack of LAN play instead of an intrusive, forced installation of a copy protection software that de-registers cd-keys from OTHER games, slows down my computer, renders my CD-drive inoperable entirely, etc etc (See Aion's DRM, or Starforce copy protection on wikipedia to know what I mean)..........
Then I support Blizzard's form of copy protection whole-heartedly.
However, I'd RATHER see them move towards a STEAM model. Convenient, Secure, Hack-free. It looks like that's what Battle.net 2.0 is shaping up to be eventually, but it's not there yet, and I know it's no small undertaking to create a system like STEAM. It's taken Valve several years to get the bugs out and make it work smoothly.
Oh, and for those protesting the game, and organizing personal/organized boycotts... really, it's your loss. Over the years, Blizzard and Valve have gotten my respect for making EVERY title they produce worth the full retail price because of the quality, replayability, and community support they provide. Until either company breaks that trust, I'll be loyally pre-ordering every title they produce, because I trust their track record a lot more than I do speculation about how specific features will work months/years in advance of their release. Sorry I won't see you on BNet, because when it happens, I'll be having WAY more fun than you are.
In the name of Zod
06-07-2009, 06:11
I don't think you guys even play lan any more anyhow. If you have you might have even bothered to contemplate the problems you face now-a-days running a lan. I seriously think that you guys are imagining the whole beauty of lan based gaming on some very old memories that no longer apply today.
I can tell you right now that I do lan's every 8-10 weeks and they are getting more awkward every time. Its far far more imaginable to be lanning it up with a console in 2-3 years from now than with a pc. If you are about to ask 'what's the problem with lanning with a pc today?' then you don't lan at all and really have no business sitting here whinning all day about no lan support. Get your heads - out of your asses and go out and try and set up a lan party today and come back here and report the difficulties you faced and tell me if it was worth it. I'd put a small wager on 'no-reply'.
FireFiend
06-07-2009, 06:19
I seriously think that you guys are imagining the whole beauty of lan based gaming on some very old memories that no longer apply today.
....then you don't lan at all and really have no business sitting here whinning all day about no lan support.
I've visited some of the largest LANS in the USA, and likely the world, since I figure there aren't many LANs that make 1100 players look like chump change. I've volunteered at local 100+ player LAN parties, and I've thrown my own 10-15 player LANs in my own place. I agree with you. LAN parties, though rewarding, require a lot of logistics, equipment, and manpower to pull off (though I disagree with you on PC Lan parties going away).
But, ya know what? That's NOT the point of the LAN debate AT ALL.
Diablo isn't, won't, and never will be a hugely played game at LAN parties... because you can only play with ~8 players in a game. If you want to play in a larger community than that, you probably don't know those people, and you may as well be playing on BNet anyway. What you run every 2-3 months (and I'm guessing here at the size, at least 50 players) is NOT what D2 Lan was commonly used for.
D2 Lan is for the two brothers and their handful of friends on a weekend. It's for a buddy from work bringing his laptop over with a few drinks. These sorts of situations were NEVER challenging to set up, because the biggest challenge was plugging in the cable, or handing off the wireless password, or maybe disabling an antivirus/antimalware firewall suite.
...but, with broadband internet access becoming common, these situations above can EASILY take place over BNet, if Blizzard wants to go that route for DRM purposes.
@Risingred
The last I heard of RIAA was that they managed to get a lot of money from some woman, she was going to try and prevent this though (sorry I forgot the correct in english, appeal ?). Other than that I am not sure about how they're faring, but I guess they did won something against the pirate bay website ?
But my suggestion is not to fight music piracy, but game piracy, in games we need cracks, there are not many who can crack a game, and it's probably illegal everywhere, maybe not in china or russia IDK, anyway, it's not our fault that the justice sucks everywhere and is slow and sometimes fail, still, I think it would be better for everyone if the companies concentrated their efforts against the core of the problem instead of trying to arrest 10 yr olds who download games or cripple the experience of their products in order to "prevent" piracy.
@Ishtor
But we are all expecting D3 because D2 was a great game, great replayability, same happened with D1 -> D2, and d2, even though it's not true on it's later years, managed to attend to all tastes.
They know how to market it ? What did you mean ? A great game will sell itself, a lame game will fail, there's no doubt. Still, it doesn't mean they were successful fighting piracy.
BTW did you mean "watercraft" on purpose ? Is there some hidden thing to it I'm not aware ? I know I disliked the 3rd one, a lot... :(
Plus it's not like lan is outdated and battle.net (online gaming) is the next step, cause LAN still beat online gaming when it comes to lag, the day I can play "lagless" with someone on the other side of the planet, will be the day lan is outdated.
There's a lot of reasons to use lan, they're all listed in this thread, along with good reasons to use online gaming, they're different, because people are different and have different needs, it's just not fair that one says his needs are better than someone else's.
I like blue, you like red, blue will never be red and red will never be blue, why should it mean I'm stubborn and I should open my eyes and change my taste and you shouldn't ? ;)
As of now I already lost hope of blizz adding lan to it, I'm now hoping the SP experience will be same as the mp one, and I mean that the SP should have everything the mp does, opposite to what happened to d2 patches. And to the first one that says "uber diablo can't be killed by a single char" or "zod runes can't be found", I don't care, I just want the same chance to have the same stuff and experience the mp has. But as I already said, it will probably be a crippled SP experience too :(
D3 will be disappointing to me, I played SP (which will be crippled, unless I go on lagnet), muled with ATMA (impossible on bnet), and ocasionally played with friends on tcp-ip and LAN (which I now must play on lagnet).
I hope blizz adds a atma style muling app for you bnet fans, cause it's the best d2 companion there is, allowed me to make a cool collection of items, made me play d2 for a few more years than I'd allow myself to a game.
And to those that say LAN gaming is so hard to do, are you serious ? What's so hard about getting a pc from point A to point B and rewire it ? It takes me 15 minutes to put my pc in my car, I then drive to wherever we're gonna gather, and takes my 15 more minutes to put the cables in, 2 power cables, video, keyboard, mouse and headphones, and the important network, how hard is that ? Of course recently I just use my notebook, it's so much easier :) still I carried my pc with me a lot, still do sometimes when the game requires a better machine. We usually have more work to go out and buy all the beer and food and find space in the refrigerator than wiring pcs... :p
You know, you guys starting to get agressive with it, I don't need to get my head out of my ***, I agree online gaming is great for everyday usage, but we like to see each other while gaming and we can't do that from our homes. So weekends are good for that, blizzard could remove LAN from the game if it could give the same things LAN are good at, which is 10ms pings around the globe, cause we would still be able to get together and play the same way.
Seriously I'm just repeating myself, if you guys think LAN sucks, lag.net is great, removing lan will mean the game will not be pirated, and blizzard is right to remove things from the game, fine, I just don't agree with those statements, be happy that blizzard will remove us lan players from the diablo community and you will have it all for yourselves. It's already done anyway.
@stephan
its not like they are taking multi player option totally out, they are given us a more up to date option. I understand you all like the LAN option, but it not needed.
And there you go again. You think you can decide for others what they think they should need. I can also say you don't need BNet, but it would be just as void of meaning as your statement that I don't need LAN.
And if not having LAN will keep you from buying a great game. I am not dumb, i get the point your trying to make, the thing is i think you LAN lovers are so stubborn to change your ways, your like an old grumpy man that think his old tv that does not even display a colored picture is still good enough.
The problem is for that for me BNet feels a lot more like a black/white tv than LAN does.
Open your eyes and you mind, the world is full of people you can meat and get along with, LAN does not offer this.
I have people living above, under, left and right of me. I don't need BNet to socialize. I don't need and want to be part of the BNet 'community'.
Doing something like the diablo clone was a great idea.
You're serious? You think giving people more incentive to dupe is a good way to stop duping? Just like giving people more incentive to pirate is a good way to stop that? I guess I understand you know.
lone_wolf
06-07-2009, 13:22
I don't think you guys even play lan any more anyhow. If you have you might have even bothered to contemplate the problems you face now-a-days running a lan. I seriously think that you guys are imagining the whole beauty of lan based gaming on some very old memories that no longer apply today.
I can tell you right now that I do lan's every 8-10 weeks and they are getting more awkward every time. Its far far more imaginable to be lanning it up with a console in 2-3 years from now than with a pc. If you are about to ask 'what's the problem with lanning with a pc today?' then you don't lan at all and really have no business sitting here whinning all day about no lan support. Get your heads - out of your asses and go out and try and set up a lan party today and come back here and report the difficulties you faced and tell me if it was worth it. I'd put a small wager on 'no-reply'.
:coffee: Great for you but your still missing the point. Do you know the time it takes for me to set up a LAN session with the rest of the spf?
under 1 minute.
Same if i want to play with my brother or my friends who live a few miles away. Because you know nothing say that you need to have the people you lan with in the same house where you are. As long as i can find decent mature people to play with from around the world via LAN bnet is just a second rate option with to much trash included in the package.
@Ishtor please tell the rest of us that dont think the idea of dupes in our games why the heck the diablo clone aka a new way to make people dupe even more sojs where a great idea. Becasue frankly many of us dont understand how making people dupe more is meant to make people dupe less. It simply does not add togheter.
Death And Taxes
06-07-2009, 14:42
Whoever mentioned Steam being a great idea, ROFL, that program is upright crap and a burdon on gaming, the first thing i did after playing that game one time, you have to do that to play single player, was uninstalled it and gave away the damn cd, never will I buy another game from that company again, not to mention how much steam slowed down your computer. And if Blizzard decides to go that route , then **** them, ill do the same with them. Its just not the answer.
Blizzard is burying itself in its greediness, and I hope they realize what they are doing before its too late.
Starving_Poet
06-07-2009, 18:32
You guys really need to stop with the pirating argument. No LAN will not hinder piracy one teeny weeny bit.
There are only two ways to lessen pirating:
1) Create a game so bad that pirating isn't worth the time.
2) Create a game so good that people who typically pirate would want to support the developer so they make more games.
Risingred
06-07-2009, 18:34
You guys really need to stop with the pirating argument. No LAN will not hinder piracy one teeny weeny bit.
There are only two ways to lessen pirating:
1) Create a game so bad that pirating isn't worth the time.
2) Create a game so good that people who typically pirate would want to support the developer so they make more games.
3) Make battle.net so great that it would compel you to buy it so you can play it online.
Starving_Poet
06-07-2009, 19:25
That falls under 2
Usufruct
06-07-2009, 19:46
I demand Diablo III provide support for Appletalk and IPX network play.
lone_wolf
06-07-2009, 21:23
:rolf:Usufruct but where would you find a computer that handle them both and can play diablo 3:scratchchin:
Ok i will I will try to respond to everything at once.
first Red and blue is not the same color, was that hard to figure out? But talking in the terms given i used to like Blue but then found red and realized it was so much better. Also, saying is like the Black&white tv, while lans is better is like saying a cell phone is worse than 2 tin cans on a string, how does that make since?
I am sorry to day your lag complaint does not hold up in the way you used it, Crono. Once you find away to hold weekly lan parties with someone that lives over 800 miles away ( and that really is not that far ) on a weekly basis, let me know. Also everything you can do on lan you can do on bnet, but i bet you will able to more because of online features, besides the fact you can work on the charecter together through out the weekday while you wait to hang out over the weekend.
Oh! Stephan, buddy, pal, i am in no form making a dissicion for you, i am looking at the world today and seeing what it offers and just makeing a sound opinion using common sense.
Wow! Lone wolf, under 1 minute you must have super saijen powers using intant tansmission for travelying, and super speed for packing and unpacking. Is your hair blonde? but how this easier then just clicking connect?
Death and taxes how is greedy to want to be paid for the work you have done?
The pircay argument, this is realy in my opinion to fight not stop. if some one is steeling the game thta i paid for, there is no reason they should get the same experience as i do. let them steal the game, they will only be able to play with themselves. they will not get the online contect, or the multiplayer interaction. And Straving_poet you #2 made me laugh because that will never happen, ROTFLMAO!!!!!
ALso as the D Clone issue goes, I am not saying that it encouraging duping was good, but it help control the amount of dupes going through from player toplayer, on bnet dupes items and runes have a tendancy to disapeer, this help those items from circulating too much. It did not solve the issue but it helped in other ways, and gave use players something else fun to do.
Starving_Poet
06-07-2009, 23:47
And Straving_poet you #2 made me laugh because that will never happen, ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Ishtor, I love how you base all your assumptions off of some warped view of reality. I am tempted to tell my story about running a very, very large warez bbs in the early 90s; but it's not worth my time.
Let me just sum something up for you: If people like a game, they buy it. Otherwise, GameFly would have been taken to court by game developers everywhere.
ALso as the D Clone issue goes, I am not saying that it encouraging duping was good, but it help control the amount of dupes going through from player toplayer, on bnet dupes items and runes have a tendancy to disapeer, this help those items from circulating too much. It did not solve the issue but it helped in other ways, and gave use players something else fun to do.
It did NOT control the amount of dupes going from player to player, it made increased it 1,000 fold. And if 'fun' supersedes the moral and legal issues of duping, then I don't understand why you're against piracy. :roll:
The pircay argument, this is realy in my opinion to fight not stop. if some one is steeling the game thta i paid for, there is no reason they should get the same experience as i do. let them steal the game, they will only be able to play with themselves. they will not get the online contect, or the multiplayer interaction. And Straving_poet you #2 made me laugh because that will never happen, ROTFLMAO!!!!!
I'm 99% certain that you will be able to play multiplayer on a pirated copy of the game. It will just take a little longer than if they had LAN in the game. So it's really pointless to remove it for that reason. The best thing Blizzard could hope for is that people don't care about LAN being out, but more than likely it will just serve to piss off legit customers.
@starving_poet
My view of reality is warped? wow thanks for the info there. At the same time LOL again, should really go into stand up there. The gamefly thing, do you not know how that stuff works. there a monthly fee you pay to join these things, this is to cover cost of the games, paying these companies mothly fees to use there game, and acorse some profit. Companies make money off gamfly, blockbuster and so on... Also for some one who hates bnet and bnet and refuses to play argueing against someone who playe dbnet religously an actually seen what was going on, i dont think you have to much room to talk.
Also i am sure that they will be able to make bnet2.0 secure, and pirated games wont be a big issue at all.
Starving_Poet
07-07-2009, 00:28
@starving_poet
My view of reality is warped? wow thanks for the info there. At the same time LOL again, should really go into stand up there. The gamefly thing, do you not know how that stuff works. there a monthly fee you pay to join these things, this is to cover cost of the games, paying these companies mothly fees to use there game, and acorse some profit. Companies make money off gamfly, blockbuster and so on... Also for some one who hates bnet and bnet and refuses to play argueing against someone who playe dbnet religously an actually seen what was going on, i dont think you have to much room to talk.
Also i am sure that they will be able to make bnet2.0 secure, and pirated games wont be a big issue at all.
Who ever said I hate BNET? False assumption #1.
Rental Companies do NOT pay a portion of their income. They tried this business path and failed: False Assumption #2 - but's here's some facts since I doubt you'll believe me.
Movie studios tried on several occasions to curb the growth of video rental. Studios wanted to ban rentals entirely, but the "first-sale doctrine" indicates that the first purchaser can do what he wants with a piece of intellectual property, so there was no legal ground to prohibit video rental.
Subsequently studios tried to modify license arrangements in order to price discriminate between videos sold to end users and those sold to rental outlets. Paramount added a "surcharge" of $1 to $10 to their cassette price. Walt Disney offered a 12-week rental license that allowed retailers to rent cassettes however often they liked at whatever price they could get.
In 1981 a video rental executive said "The studios want total control of the cassette from the manufacturer to the customer. The odds for success are fairly low, but in an attempt to do that we'll see constant revisions of rental schemes and another couple of years of turmoil".
This forecast was partially correct: the studios tried to control the rental market but failed. By 1983 most of the studios had given up on licensing schemes and were relying on selling tapes to both rental stores and end users at the same price. As in the case of books, the Hollywood producers were lucky that they failed in controlling the growth of the rental market, for it was that very growth that led to their subsequent success.
The standard business model for video rental stores was that they would pay a large flat fee per video, approximately US$65, and have unlimited rentals for the lifetime of the cassette itself. It was Sumner Redstone, whose Viacom conglomerate then owned Blockbuster, who personally pioneered a new revenue-sharing arrangement for video, in the mid-1990s. Blockbuster obtained videos for little or no cost and kept 60 percent rental fee, paying the other 40 percent to the studio, and reporting rental information through Rentrak. What Blockbuster got out of the deal, besides a lower initial price, was that movies were not available for sale during an initial release period, at least at an affordable price point - customers either had to rent, wait, or buy the film on tape at the much higher MSRP price targeted at other rental chains and film enthusiasts, at that time then between $70-$100 before the end of the initial release period.
In 1998, Blockbuster refused to use the same model for DVDs, which was just starting as an alternative format. The studios then decided to price DVDs low enough so that it could be sold to the public in direct competition with video rentals, and to provide no rental-only release period. As a result, the amount of DVD sales increased while rentals of the same titles did not. By 2003, the studios were taking in three times as much money from DVDs sales as they were from VHS videos.
"lockbuster obtained videos for little or no cost and kept 60 percent rental fee, paying the other 40 percent to the studio, and reporting rental information through Rentrak."
oh what does that say they pay fees to rent out those movies unless i read that worng but it looks pretty clean cut.
Risingred
07-07-2009, 00:36
To whoever said something about LAN taking forever to set up...uh, not really. You must not have LAN'd in the mid-90s. THAT took forever. Here's a glimpse into that horrifying world:
A direct connect network is composed of three or four PCs connected in daisy-chain style by null modem serial cables, as shown below.
The PCs that are not on the ends of the chain are "routing" machines, i.e. they relay information to the machine on either side of them. In a two player game there are no routing machines, in a three player game there is one routing machine, and in a full four player game there are two routing machines. A non-routing machine is one that is located at the end of the chain and is directly connected to only one other PC. It is configured just as if it were connected to one PC for a standard two player game.
The routing machines must have two serial cables connected, one for the machine on either side. This means that you must have two unused serial ports for every machine that will act as a routing machine. Machines that use a serial mouse will probably not be able to act as routing machines, and should be placed at the end of the chain.
Here is where things get sticky. The PC serial communications architecture was designed around the assumption that you would only need to have two serial devices at the same time. The PC can communicate with up to four devices, but it shares two interrupt lines among the four devices. Specifically, COM1 shares an interrupt (or IRQ line) with COM3, and COM2 shares an interrupt with COM4. A COM port is simply a name that your PC gives to a serial device so that the software can communicate with it. In order for direct connect to work properly, you must ensure that there are no active serial devices using the same IRQ line as a direct connect serial cable. In general, this means that your serial cables must be on COM1 and COM2.
In most cases, the two external serial ports on a PC are assigned to COM1 and COM2 by the BIOS and Windows 95. The most likely reason this would not be the case is if you have installed an internal modem. Many modem vendors ship their modems preconfigured to use COM2. When Windows 95 detects that a modem has been installed in the system, it tries to reassign the serial port that was previously using COM2, and it usually winds up on COM3. This means that it is now sharing an interrupt line with the serial port on COM1, and attempting to use both of these ports for direct connect will fail since they will be active simultaneously.
This is also a problem for a machine that has an internal modem and uses a serial mouse. If the external serial port you are using for direct connect has been reassigned by Windows 95 to use the same IRQ as the mouse, Diablo will not function properly.
If you find yourself in this situation, you need to change the settings for the serial port you wish to use so that it shares an IRQ with a device that you know will not be in use at the same time. Below are some common configurations, and an explanation of the changes necessary to play over direct connect. Remember, the goal is to make sure that no two devices that share an interrupt are in use at the same time!
A. A PC with a PS/2 mouse, two serial ports, and no internal modem or other serial devices.
Since the PS/2 style mouse, which is common on most modern machines, does not plug into a serial port, there are no IRQ conflicts. This machine can be a router.
B. A PC with a PS/2 mouse, two serial ports, and an internal modem.
First, determine which COM port, and therefore IRQ, your internal modem is using. Open the Modems Control Panel, and click the Diagnostics tab. You should see a listing of all the COM ports known to the system, with the device that is assigned to that port. "No Modem Installed" indicates a unused COM port which can be used for direct connect. If the modem is installed on COM2, you will need to change the serial port that is at COM3 to COM4.
This can be done as follows. Open the System Control Panel, and locate the "Ports (COM & LPT)" section. Select the device you wish to change (e.g. COM3). Click Properties to show information about that device. Click the Resources tab. You should see a checkbox labeled "Use automatic settings" that is checked. You will need to clear this checkbox to make the necessary changes. The drop-down menu labeled "Settings based on" has four options: Basic configuration 0000 - Basic configuration 0003. These correspond to COM1 - COM4, i.e. Basic configuration 0000 is COM1, 0001 is COM2, and so on. To change the serial port using COM3 to use COM4, select Basic configuration 0003. Notice that the Interrupt Request setting changes to that of the modem, not the other serial port.
Click OK all the way back to the desktop, and reboot. This machine can be used as a router.
C. A PC with a serial mouse, two serial ports, and no internal modem or other serial devices.
Since your mouse permanently occupies one serial port, this machine must be at one of the ends of the chain to be a member of a direct connect network. Unless your COM ports have been reassigned from previous hardware installations, no changes are necessary. Note that if you previously had an internal serial device that caused Windows 95 to reassign your COM port, simply removing the device will not cause the COM port to return to its original setting. You must either reassign it manually as outlined in section B above or remove it using the device manager and let Windows 95 re-detect the device at the next boot.
This machine cannot be a router.
D. A PC with a serial mouse, two serial ports, and an internal modem.
Since your mouse permanently occupies one serial port, this machine must be at one of the ends of the chain to be a member of a direct connect network.
First, determine which COM port, and therefore IRQ, your internal modem is using. Open the Modems Control Panel, and click the Diagnostics tab. You should see a listing of all the COM ports known to the system, with the device that is assigned to that port. "No Modem Installed" indicates a unused COM port which can be used for direct connect. If the modem is installed on COM2, you will need to change the serial port that is at COM3 to COM4.
This can be done as follows. Open the System Control Panel, and locate the Ports (COM & LPT) section. Select the device you wish to change (e.g. COM3). Click Properties to show information about that device. Click the Resources tab. You should see a checkbox labeled "Use automatic settings" that is checked. You will need to clear this checkbox to make the necessary changes. The drop-down menu labeled "Settings based on" has four options: Basic configuration 0000 - Basic configuration 0003. These correspond to COM1 - COM4, i.e. Basic configuration 0000 is COM1, 0001 is COM2, and so on. To change the serial port using COM3 to use COM4, select Basic configuration 0003. Notice that the Interrupt Request setting changes to that of the modem, not the other serial port.
This machine cannot be a router.
Once you have verified that all machines are properly connected and have no IRQ conflicts, you can setup the game. Pick a machine to be the "host" machine, preferably a router.
On the machine that will create the game:
Start Diablo
Select "Multi Player"
Create/Select your hero
Select "Direct Cable Connection"
Select "Create Game"
On each machine that will join the game:
Start Diablo
Select "Multi Player"
Create/Select your hero
Wait for a neighbor to connect
Select "Direct Cable Connection"
It is important that each machine wait for its neighbor before attempting to join the game. For example, imagine a direct connect network with four players, numbered left to right 1, 2, 3, and 4. Player 3 is the host, and selects Create Game. As soon as the game is created, players 2 and 4 can select Direct Cable Connection. When player 2 has connected, player 1 can join. Any machine can be the host machine, but a host at the end will involve a slightly longer setup time since one more player will have to wait to join.
If the game has already been created when you select "Direct Cable Connection" you will immediately join the game in progress. If the game has not yet been created, select "Retry Connection" after the game has been created.
Please refer to the troubleshooting guide at the end of this document if you have problems setting up a direct connect game.
Troubleshooting
Why does my game freeze after a few minutes of play?
At least one of the machines on your direct connect network has an IRQ conflict. Check the Device Manager tab in your System Control Panel to determine whether you have two active serial devices sharing an interrupt.
Windows 95 won't let me change my COM port settings!
You must clear the "Use automatic settings" checkbox in order to manually change your serial device settings.
Where do I find a "null modem" serial cable?
Most computer supply stores stock cables appropriate for direct connect use. Ask your salesperson for a "null modem serial cable". Also, there are many cables designed for Microsoft Windows 95 direct cable networking. Any serial cable designated for use with Win95 direct cable networking will work with Diablo direct connection games. Parallel cables are not compatible.
I have a serial mouse and an external modem. What can I do?
You will need to unplug the modem and use that serial port to play direct connect games.
I am creating a game, but the other player is never able to join it. Why?
You are using the wrong type of cable, or you have an interrupt conflict with another serial device on one of the computers. Check your Modems and System Control Panels to find the conflicting IRQ.
Today? Plug in a couple cords, click a couple buttons.
Risingred
07-07-2009, 00:38
"lockbuster obtained videos for little or no cost and kept 60 percent rental fee, paying the other 40 percent to the studio, and reporting rental information through Rentrak."
oh what does that say they pay fees to rent out those movies unless i read that worng but it looks pretty clean cut.
What about used game companies such as gamestop? "The Industry" has often mentioned how they wish they could shut down used games sales because, as a point of philosophy, it is basically stealing from the game companies.
What about goozex (http://www.goozex.com)? What about swap sites?
Where is this thread going?
Where are my pants? :cloud9:
Starving_Poet
07-07-2009, 00:48
"lockbuster obtained videos for little or no cost and kept 60 percent rental fee, paying the other 40 percent to the studio, and reporting rental information through Rentrak."
oh what does that say they pay fees to rent out those movies unless i read that worng but it looks pretty clean cut.
Read the whole damn quote!
... and pirated games wont be a big issue at all.
Yeah right, lol.
Those also hurt sales for game companies, i am sure they would like to close them down, but at the same time if you closed them down, games sale would go down because you have to resort from buying thme from wal mart, that is a loose loose situation, but there are still people that like to buy games new over used no matter the cheaper price.
Straving_Poet, i did read the whole damn qoute, it never said they stoped using this method infact it said they make more money off dvs nor then they did on vhs's.
blikst, sorry i ment to add online.
I am sorry to day your lag complaint does not hold up in the way you used it, Crono. Once you find away to hold weekly lan parties with someone that lives over 800 miles away ( and that really is not that far ) on a weekly basis, let me know. Also everything you can do on lan you can do on bnet, but i bet you will able to more because of online features, besides the fact you can work on the charecter together through out the weekday while you wait to hang out over the weekend.
Huh ? I don't LAN with people 800 miles away, to play with them I can use TCP-Ip connection which would mean a 50-100ms lag. Still better than the 400 average on lag.net.
Everything I can do on LAN I can on bet ? No. I can't play with 10ms pings and I can't use ATMA.
Would do a lot more because of online features ? Lie, the "lot more" only exists because blizzard is trying to get people on their b.net as proof of purchase, so they leave features b.net only that have no reason to be bnet only. The only thing I could ever miss on bnet is trading, which I don't like doing anyway.
It's been suggested before, even on bnet forums, blizz could leave the lan and tcp ip options and just require online authentication before playing the game, just like CS, that would solve it, I would be able to play with people in my area with less lag, I wouldn't have to deal with the bnet stuff I don't like, I could mule with 3rd party software, backup my chars and play months later, and play MP with the chars I spend time with on SP, even play MP with mods, cool huh ? I still fail to see how bnet is gonna do all this.
They could implement a better muling system in D2 for ages and they never did it, maybe because they like to sell + keys for people who want to mule safely ?
There will probably be a char limit too, so that having one of each class and mules will cost a few extra cdkeys, gonna be fun to see all bnet fans defending blizz so much for removing lan right now when they see the great bnet "features".
pfff, lol, after just thinking about it, before posting I tested it, I didn't know that, went into bnet, started creating chars and there actually is a char limit of 8 per account, how lame is that... create new character button is disabled :whistling:
yeah for sure bnet is gonna be great.
Usufruct
07-07-2009, 15:50
:rolf:Usufruct but where would you find a computer that handle them both and can play diablo 3:scratchchin:
lol, I figure if someone is dedicated enough to attempt something so silly, they could write software to emulate IPX encapsulation.
lol, I figure if someone is dedicated enough to attempt something so silly, they could write software to emulate IPX encapsulation.
Lets get a team from Sover.net to see if this is possible... lol
Usufruct
07-07-2009, 18:12
Lets get a team from Sover.net to see if this is possible... lol
lol, totally possible :)
Starving_Poet
07-07-2009, 18:36
Straving_Poet, i did read the whole damn qoute, it never said they stoped using this method infact it said they make more money off dvs nor then they did on vhs's.
For the reading comprehension impaired:
In 1998, Blockbuster refused to use the same model for DVDs [no more paying producers per rental], which was just starting as an alternative format. The studios then decided to price DVDs low enough so that it could be sold to the public in direct competition with video rentals [thus trying to put renters out of business], and to provide no rental-only release period [further trying to shut-down rentals]. As a result, the amount of DVD sales increased while rentals of the same titles did not. By 2003, the studios were taking in three times as much money from DVDs sales as they were from VHS videos.
lone_wolf
07-07-2009, 22:05
lol, I figure if someone is dedicated enough to attempt something so silly, they could write software to emulate IPX encapsulation.
well there are crazy people out there me included. But im not a programmer so i have to let that one go.
@Ishtor you are a very funny person do you know that. Here is something you might not know i can post my ip for a Lan session in the spf Mp forum and play with people from around the world. I still have less lag and lower ping then bnet and now we are talking about playing with people that are living in USA for example. For those that dont know that is about 4970 miles.
The fun thing is that it does take me less then a minute to put it all togheter Ishtor the reason for this is that i just host a tcp&ip game and people join when its up, simple as that.
No need to use kindergarten arguments against it:coffee:
Death And Taxes
07-07-2009, 23:29
You know Ishtor , i dont know what the problem is. If i can play the same damn game with ZERO lag ,and not have to play on Bnet servers, why would i do it on battlenet servers with lag and the community , when I can just bypass that all together? It makes no sense.
@starving_poet
I apologize sir, i was wrong about that quotes i miss read what it said, you were right about that.
@lone_wolf
I like you to, and did not think i was to kindergardenish, i am just trying to support my point of view. I still think it is easier just to click on button that says connect though.
@death and taxes
Like i said before, if lan was available go for it if it makes you happy, but as right now it is not, and i am stating my opinion. the fact you dont want to deal with the comunity just makes you seem anti-social to me. You might not like every person you play with, but there a chance that you might like to play with some you dont know at the same time.
I didn't read a single post, but its currently not going to support a lan from what they said.
And I believe it shouldn't because theres to many pirates anymore about games. If anyone knows about GArena, 70% of the people who play that is because they are to cheap to buy the game, or there cdkey is banned from cheating.
Also something most people don't know is how the hacked items got into Diablo 2. Like hex's quarks, demonmachine belt, ETC ETC. It was all through programmers ability to hack/combind hack there hacked stuff on Single player through TCP/IP and Open B.net onto Closed B.net
I'm not a programmer so I couldn't use w/e the smart words would be. But I did know how they did it because I talked with the main guy who did it and people of the clan. Actually I still talk to 1 of them through vent because we always went to other games as a group. (No not all the main hackers was mainly talking about this 1 guy and a few IRL friends and Net friends that we like to play games with)
Starving_Poet
09-07-2009, 01:31
I didn't read a single post,
Then please refrain from commenting until you have read the current arguments - pro and con.
I didn't read a single post, but its currently not going to support a lan from what they said.
And I believe it shouldn't because theres to many pirates anymore about games. If anyone knows about GArena, 70% of the people who play that is because they are to cheap to buy the game, or there cdkey is banned from cheating.
Also something most people don't know is how the hacked items got into Diablo 2. Like hex's quarks, demonmachine belt, ETC ETC. It was all through programmers ability to hack/combind hack there hacked stuff on Singer player through TCP/IP and Open B.net onto Closed B.net
I'm not a programmer so I couldn't use w/e the smart words would be. But I did know how they did it because I talked with the main guy who did it and people of the clan. Actually I still talk to 1 of them through vent because we always went to other games as a group. (No not all the main hackers was mainly talking about this 1 guy and a few IRL friends and Net friends that we like to play games with)
That's heavy man.
Then please refrain from commenting until you have read the current arguments - pro and con.
Eh, I have read on the battle.net about the lan stuff etc etc, so I know alot of the pro's and con's. But it doesn't change what I said.
Eh, I have read on the battle.net about the lan stuff etc etc, so I know alot of the pro's and con's. But it doesn't change what I said.
What you said has already been discussed in the previous 17 pages of discussion, so you added nothing to the conversation.
Plus, what are you suggesting ? Removal of SP too because then hackers won't be able to hack the game ? lol, indeed you're not a programmer.
I lol when I read people arguing that lan gaming was used to packet sniff, as if bnet would have a magical shield against it...
What you said has already been discussed in the previous 17 pages of discussion, so you added nothing to the conversation.
Plus, what are you suggesting ? Removal of SP too because then hackers won't be able to hack the game ? lol, indeed you're not a programmer.
I lol when I read people arguing that lan gaming was used to packet sniff, as if bnet would have a magical shield against it...
No I know they can hack it without that. As far as bots go, but like I've never seen a game with "hacked" items that didn't have a Lan / Open b.net type thing.
I was only talking about how the SP went into that was because since you could hack your SP character up, then that was the character used on the Lan / Open b.net. So if lan / open b.net is taken away, then SP doesn't matter either way...
Starving_Poet
09-07-2009, 17:20
No I know they can hack it without that. As far as bots go, but like I've never seen a game with "hacked" items that didn't have a Lan / Open b.net type thing.
Every single MMO has had hacked items. The difference is the response time by the developers since MMOs have a full-time content management staff. When you have people working 8-10 hours a day whose entire job is to find code loopholes, these problems get fixed up pretty quickly.
Every single MMO has had hacked items. The difference is the response time by the developers since MMOs have a full-time content management staff. When you have people working 8-10 hours a day whose entire job is to find code loopholes, these problems get fixed up pretty quickly.
Heh, so your saying they get rid of hacked items immediately, but if a game has a bot that allows them to attack at speed x30 they somehow don't catch that. Yep makes sense. Knight online for instance, archers had a move called arrow shower, shot 5 arrows in front of you but only way you would hit someone with 5 arrows is if they were literally on top of you.
But a bot came out that made it so these archers could arrow shower from 35m away , AND be running while shooting it, and you would get hit by all 5 arrows and hella die. This was on the server for about 6 months, but there was never a hacked item. GEEE GEEE
Starving_Poet
09-07-2009, 22:50
Thank you for proving the pro-LAN argument.
Thank you for proving the pro-LAN argument.
lol, well history shows that blizzard does the best job of any other online game to get rid of cheaters WHEN THEY TRY. Like when 350,000+ d2 accounts were banned, etc etc.
Yeah they have the maphack and stuff but again even on wc3 people who use those get banned like once every 5 months. So when blizzard "Trys" which now there rich cause of WoW, so i think they will try. We shouldn't have to worry about those kinds of things.
Starving_Poet
10-07-2009, 02:51
lol, well history shows that blizzard does the best job of any other online game to get rid of cheaters
cite your sources
cite your sources
I am the source, I have played every single big name game almost. I'm off to work tho so if needed I'll site the over 100 game names when I get back in 4ish-6ish hours.
Death And Taxes
10-07-2009, 03:58
If Lan enabled so much piracy, then why is Diablo 2 and Diablo 2 LOD/Diablo 2 Battlechest high among the best selling games of all time regardless of that ? Answer that.
If Lan enabled so much piracy, then why is Diablo 2 and Diablo 2 LOD/Diablo 2 Battlechest high among the best selling games of all time regardless of that ? Answer that.
Because lan on Diablo2 is hella boring lool(and because umm lets see, When D2 first came out was like before even dsl and stuff u used dialup(or dsl had just come out), piracy wasn't "as big" then as it is now). But even so actually if you go to a certain torrent site they have a cracked d2 so you don't need CD key to install it and then theres people that go to private d2 servers and get there by Lan.
One of these cracked D2's has 300,000 + dl's.
EDIT: doing this I'll site the over 100 game names when I get back
Each of these have massive bot usage and/or a cheat type system to it.
1. Silkroad
2. Knight Online
3. Guild Wars
4. Tweleve Sky
5. Perfect World
6. Maplestory (which I actually only played for about 1 hour, but I know people who played it, I couldn't handle this game it was just to bad)
7. RF Online
8. Hero online
9. WAR (warhammersz)
10. Rohan Online
11. Dekaron Online
12. Cabal Online (I really liked the graphics of this game, and alot of its attempt at content.)
13. AoC(Age of Conan)
14. Granado Espada
15. 2moon online
16. Runes Of Magic Online
17. Rappelz
18. ALL OF OG PLANETS GAMES *which 1 of them is already on list as cabal, but they have like 4 more games , no i havn't played them all only cabal and rumbel fighter, but both of these have them, and I know people who have played / play the other ones who say they have them)
19. Pirate King Online
20. Aion (In china(ITS HORRIBLE DO NOT EVER WASTE TIME ENTERING THIS, OMG BOT CENTRAL), s.korea is working on fixing it, and I'm really hoping that NCSoft doesn't suckass like they usually do and stop them in the NA version)
21. lineage
22. Lineage 2
23. City Of Heroes
24. Rakion online
25. 9Dragons
26. Every single Steam game (sooo were talking about like alot of games here, rofl)
And yeah, if you need me to list more I can. All of these games currently have either a bot, or cheat/hack program that "drastically" changes the game.
In WoW theres fishbots and anti afk bots, (i even made one of the first anti afk ones and passed around to friends). And people do get banned, but even so these don't drastically change the game, so who the hell cares.
So therefor Blizzard = better anti hack/bot system that anyone else.
No I know they can hack it without that. As far as bots go, but like I've never seen a game with "hacked" items that didn't have a Lan / Open b.net type thing.
This may have something to do with Open BNet, but it has nothing to do with LAN. You have no argument.
Usufruct
10-07-2009, 20:15
In WoW theres fishbots and anti afk bots, (i even made one of the first anti afk ones and passed around to friends).
You're lucky I'm not a forum moderator, I might have banned you for admitting to creating and distributing software that violates Blizzard's TOS.
You're lucky I'm not a forum moderator, I might have banned you for admitting to creating and distributing software that violates Blizzard's TOS.
But I am and I will.
lazylink
10-07-2009, 20:47
Well it's not like they're hard to make. Any idiot with rudimentary knowledge of Java can make one.
WOW... never saw someone get banned before. Nextt had good attentions but i think he hurt my argument more than helped.... is there a ways to erase his comments from the record lol. Let this be a lesson well learned, hacks and cheats will only get you in trouble.
But in other words, no one started a petition to bring lan play to d3, i dont think it is needed, but as i said i would signed it if some one posted a link to it. Do not know how much good it will do, but atleast you all can try to get them to add your lan play, if not hopefully i will see you on bnet :) well some of you.
WOW... never saw someone get banned before. Nextt had good attentions but i think he hurt my argument more than helped.... is there a ways to erase his comments from the record lol. Let this be a lesson well learned, hacks and cheats will only get you in trouble.
But in other words, no one started a petition to bring lan play to d3, i dont think it is needed, but as i said i would signed it if some one posted a link to it. Do not know how much good it will do, but atleast you all can try to get them to add your lan play, if not hopefully i will see you on bnet :) well some of you.
Since it feels like a buissness decision rather than a gameplay decision, I think the only way blizzard will change their mind is if all the negative publicity and such things will have big enough of an impact finacially when the game is released that they'll be forced to change their mind. But before we know what b.net 2 will encompase I don't think we have much leverage against blizzard. If they decide to include LAN with online verification, then this point is moot. I guess we just have to wait and see. And that said, I think most people like me that would have liked to see LAN in the game, will still buy it and enjoy it. :)
lone_wolf
11-07-2009, 01:11
Ishtor its not like a petition does anything in the end. The bring lan to sc2 petition should be about 200000 signs now since it was 179000+ when i signed. Still wont matter like blikst said with these kind of companies money do the talking so in the end all we can hope for is that they see the impact on their decision.
RANT
I for one will buy the game if not only to play sp and test out a few builds and then stop playing and throw it in the dust bin. I hope i am wrong but so far the game seems to be more and more dumbed down for the console kiddies with every update i see. It seems like games nowdays just focus on the shiny polish and nothing else. Who knows mayby in a few years we have shiny arrows in the game that tell us where to go*roll eyes* or mayby we get helpful in game tips on how to defeat the monsters the simplest way. I swear if you where to put rogue in the hands of a 15 year old today they probebly would not make it to level 2.
CaptainDingo
11-07-2009, 03:38
I'd like to share an experience that sums up my point.
I have a fast internet connection. I'm on the east coast and play on the eastern realm.
So, I was playing on Battle.net in Diablo 2 recently and I lagfroze twice during one few-hour session. Once while in a relatively low-danger situation, and one while I was in the middle of fighting Diablo. Both times the lag-freeze lasted for roughly 5-10 seconds. Ample time to get killed. Luckily I didn't. Just barely.
I also dropped a Ral rune on the ground in a later session that day and upon trying to pick it up, it was impossible. I tried accessing my stash. Impossible.
I tried taking a waypoint. Impossible.
I could go outside, cast spells, and kill monsters and they fought back. Oh. So it's not "lagging." What is it doing then?
I ran back to town, and tried to pick up that stupid rune. Still nothing.
I went to the lobby, defeated. It was packed to the brim with a flame war going on. The subject of debate? Whether or not someone's balls had dropped yet.
Battlenet is garbage.
It's filth. The people on it are filth.
Either Battle.net 2.0 is smooth and perfect like my girlfriend's *** or I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole.
Boohoo, piracy. :'( Look at us wipe our tears with all our money.
There's no excuse to force people to play on their trashy service with people who should have been aborted.
I demand nothing short of perfection from Battle.net 2.0. And I have every right to, since they're forcing us to use it and all.
@captiandingo
the only thing that is filth is you and your attitude, you poor baby you lagged 2x's for 5-10 seconds. Wow that's horrible you poor thing! And that ral rune is for ever lost, you might not never get that back. Stop your winning and grow up! On that list of people that should of been aborted i think you name should be on the top for a comment like that, you should be ashamed. Abortion is wrong!
You know stuff like that would not happen if people did not cheat and hack, which happens just much as offline. 1 lad per hour i get longer load times playing my xbox 360 ps3 and wii waiting for games to load new content that that. you want to talk about garbage do you? Garbage is the ****ty comments you made, thinking you making a point, but all you made is make yourself look like an ***.
lone_wolf
11-07-2009, 10:22
@ishtor care to explain to me and others why we should take everything you say at face value?
This is a forum for debate if you cant handle what people write you are in the wrong place. Further more care to explain why we should not care about the fact that bnet has lagspikes, random disconnects and delays betwwen the client and the server as well as the random black wall issue like CaptainDingo described.
These are not some random stuff that happens once or twice during a game session. It happens frequently and as such me as a customer are concerned about how blizzard plans to deal with these issues. But then again i for one dont believe something is true just because people like to bring it up in a debate all the time.
For that matter ishtor can you please cite your sorces to the claim that bnet would not be as bad as it is today if you just got everyone there to stop using bots, dupe and hack.
I would love to read them.
As for the abortion issue drop it its not relevant in anyway to this debate.
Mad Mantis
11-07-2009, 12:19
As for the abortion issue drop it its not relevant in anyway to this debate.
Both posters have been dealt with. I will not tolerate another person bringing this up. That will be a ban.
Risingred
11-07-2009, 13:12
@captiandingo
the only thing that is filth is you and your attitude,
Yours is not much better, Ishtor. You've proven to be very hostile and rude in this thread.
Battlenet is garbage.
It's filth. The people on it are filth.
Either Battle.net 2.0 is smooth and perfect like my girlfriend's *** or I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole.
Boohoo, piracy. :'( Look at us wipe our tears with all our money.
There's no excuse to force people to play on their trashy service with people who should have been aborted.
Very constructive.
Starving_Poet
13-07-2009, 17:47
You know stuff like that would not happen if people did not cheat and hack, which happens just much as offline.
Yes, but with LAN, I can choose to never come into contact with those people.
Someone against LAN, please explain to me why and how you are so willing to give up that choice?
Yes, but with LAN, I can choose to never come into contact with those people.
Someone against LAN, please explain to me why and how you are so willing to give up that choice?
I think it would be interesting to see how many that are opposing LAN actually played LAN in the earlier games. I get the distinct feeling that most of those who think it's a good idea to remove it, haven't actually used the feature much. I may be wrong though. I can see why Blizzard made the decision, but I don't understand why you as a player would think it's a good idea.
Risingred
13-07-2009, 18:24
I think it would be interesting to see how many that are opposing LAN actually played LAN in the earlier games. I get the distinct feeling that most of those who think it's a good idea to remove it, haven't actually used the feature much. I may be wrong though. I can see why Blizzard made the decision, but I don't understand why you as a player would think it's a good idea.
No kidding...playing on bnet is one thing but to be in a room of people that you can see and talk to without typing while playing is an entirely different thing. LAN rocks and I'm really going to miss it.
Starving_Poet
13-07-2009, 19:01
I also think that lots of people see LAN as 'local' only. LAN also encompasses TCP/IP which allows you to play with your mates in Italy, Australia, and South Africa - without having to deal with the (significant) overhead of the Battle.net server.
I first would like to make a formal apology if I offended anyone, came across rude or hostile as some has mentioned. Also i would like to make a special apology to CaptianDingo for attacking him and his post, there is no reason for me to attack somebody like that atleats not a good one. I have tried to state my opinion and how i feel about Lan, I dont expect anyone to take what i say at face value. I am only defending and sating my opinon on the subject. I would Like to defend my stand again, but i will try my best not to offend anyone this time.
I stated this alreayd, but i think in the world we live in today, That a LAN option is not as needed. I do relize that there is people that do not have access to a high speed internet connection, also i releize there are fans that live in far away places where blizzard does not host servers. I wish the onlune play could be equally as great for everyone, but the fact is for the majority games, i think the option to be able to play on should be enough.
The biggest issue for both sides of this argument is we have no clue what to really bases our opion on the new battle.net server. Blizzards stated they are making changes to make the online play better than what is before, but we have no clue where they are puttin up these new servers for people to play on and how well these server will work.
I do know with the battle.net server we have no there is alot of issues with lags and glitches Lonewolf i know you would like some sorces, nbut i really dont have a sorc for what i am about to say, other than jsut basic knowledge of what i know about programming and I.T. Hacks and Bot are programs that break coded data to preform there jobs, and when you put this on an online server, it has to attack the server to do what it is supposed to do. This is the same way a virus works, and having many viruses on your computer for a long period of time is going to make your computer run badley. This is one thing atleast at the beginning of the new battle.net we wont have to worry about, but something we could have to deal with later down the road.
If some one could finds this however, i remember reading something about a fail safe system they are going to impliment, any time a .exe file is activated after the games is up the game will automaticly shut down, this will make hacking much harder, but i can not find where i saw this. but either way the reasoning blizzard said about reducing pirating and hacking, and removing LAN is to help uop the security my not be a lie, but i do believe there is more behind it than that one reason.
Someone else said something about advertising, which make them more money, and monitoring how much we play. that is very possible, but since they will keep pirated copies from playing online this will remove multi player option for them, even though this will limit and punsih you hardcore LAN players as well. Also some one said something about making a fake server or some hack to enable LAN, this is very possible.
I know having your friend is the same room with is much more enjoyable, but i can have them in the same room and still play online, i dont have to have a LAN connection to play with some 2 feet away from me. Ping issue that had been stated, it take a large ping to before you notice and gameplay issues, andthing under 100 for sure is something you will not notice, i think the biggest ping i have seen was when i was playing FF xI, i saw something over 180 and never saw that bad of a lag before. I think that was with people connecting to the same router too.
Risingred
14-07-2009, 03:32
I know having your friend is the same room with is much more enjoyable, but i can have them in the same room and still play online, i dont have to have a LAN connection to play with some 2 feet away from me. Ping issue that had been stated, it take a large ping to before you notice and gameplay issues, andthing under 100 for sure is something you will not notice, i think the biggest ping i have seen was when i was playing FF xI, i saw something over 180 and never saw that bad of a lag before. I think that was with people connecting to the same router too.
It's not usually that simple, though. When someone rents out a hall for a LAN tournament or whatever, there's never a guarantee that there is even an ethernet jack in it.
We LAN'd D2 at school at lot when I was undergrad, and the connection to bnet was pretty atrocious so we all agreed to work on SP chars to LAN with and it worked out a lot better. Like starving_poet said as well, when you LAN, you remove a lot of the overhead and latency from the battle.net service.
I'm not going to pass judgement either way quite yet but I do think it sucks that they took it out and I'm going to miss it, but that isn't going to stop me from taking a couple days off of work when the game comes out to have a great time, just like when D2/LoD was released.
i unerstand what you are saying, it really is hard both ways, but i think once battlenet 2.0 come out, we will have a much better opinion if removing LAN was a good move or not. But till then i think we will just have to wait, but for all of you theat prefer LAN, if not having LAN is really as bad as your saying, hopefully blizzard will learn there lesson with SC2 and go ahead and include it with D3.
LittleOldLady
14-07-2009, 07:50
Ishtor, as someone in a country which is too far away (and not a large enough population) for good pings, I really don't care about battle.net 2.0. I would be excited about an announcement to the effect that they would have new servers nearby.
Failing that, I'll be doomed to play SP (which I mostly played in D2, with a fair chunk of LAN; but since the game will cost more here anyway, and we'll get fewer viable options it's more than a little annoying).
If the real reason is to stop hacks (I'm not being a conspiracy nut, just cynical) then I'd be happier with either:
1. A patch to include LAN, after a hack is widely available (yes, unlikely I know); or
2. Some sort of "check with battle.net" (which may be randomly throughout a session too) which allows LAN if everyone has a proper CD-key; or
3. A combination: a later patch to include option 2.
I fail to see how any of these could:
- assist with hacking the game;
- be excessively time-consuming to implement (though I'm not a programmer); or
- substantially reduce the number of people who do play on battle.net (the community excuse).
Starving_Poet
14-07-2009, 18:15
If some one could finds this however, i remember reading something about a fail safe system they are going to impliment, any time a .exe file is activated after the games is up the game will automaticly shut down, this will make hacking much harder, but i can not find where i saw this. but either way the reasoning blizzard said about reducing pirating and hacking, and removing LAN is to help uop the security my not be a lie, but i do believe there is more behind it than that one reason.
I want to really point this out. I don't know privacy laws in the rest of the world but this would be illegal in the United States.
I want to really point this out. I don't know privacy laws in the rest of the world but this would be illegal in the United States.
Not only illegal but how annoying would that be ?
Not being able to alt-tab and start up msn/skype/email after the game starts ? How about the multiple processes that windows start automatically... :p
There's no fail safe thing, the only way to stop piracy is lower game prices and deliver proper content, not what is happening that is just the opposite.
I'm already seeing SC2 being distributed like crazy beating spore 0day distribution because the pirate "community" will do it just for the sake of doing it, because blizz removed lan and separated the game in 3...
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