View Full Version : Assassin who do not wanna go to hell
Im pretty new to assassins and havent tried one for many years until now. Im trying something of a hybrid with traps as main and DT as support (and for bosses etc.). She is currently lvl 73 and has just started act 1 hell. And Im so dissapointed at her (well mine...) performance and because this is the most fun character Ive ever played (until she entered hell that is) Im hoping for some of you guys to help me out.
She doesnt cut it in hell....my kicks are not doing anything almost and her traps takes forever to kill anything. LI:s forces her to run like a coward. What I am doing wrong? I know I dont have all the req gear but Im playing more or less untwinked because I recently started after many years of abcence, but I have managed to come across a few ok items.
First here is my skill distribution:
Traps
FB 3
CBS 16ish
LS 20
DS 20
MA
DT 15ish
SD
1 pt BoS, Fade, SM, MB, CoS etc.
Statpoints
Str 30% (around 170 with gear)
Dex 30% (around 140 with gear)
Vit 40% (around 200 with gear)
En -
Current gear:
Peasant crown
Nat Shadow (3 sox with what?)
MoserŽs (2pdiamonds)
String of ears
Ravenfrost
Rare with life leech, str, res
"Strenght" or Jade Talon (Jade sucks but enables max res in hell with Fade)
IK boots
Bloodfists
Amu with +1 all, res
YouŽd probably laught at this setup but is this build not playable without the high-end gear recommonded in the guides?
This gives me this:
LS dmg ~1-1,7k
DT ~300-500
Life ~1k
Def ~1.2k
AR ~5k
Max block
Max res with Jade and Fade...(like BoS a lot more though...)
Else ok res and 25% CB.
Even I can see that this numbers just doesnt cut it. What shall I do, Im pretty much desperate for help here. Appreciate all the help I can get, thanks.
Your skill set-up looks fine. There are some things you could do about your gear and perhaps play style however.
Replace the IK's with an Elite type boot (take Boneweaves as minimum). This is the most obvious flaw in your gear. Also check here (http://diablo3.ingame.de/tips/calcs/speedcalc_titanseal/speedcalc_english.php) if you are hitting at least 3 frame follow up kicks with Fade. Aim for level 18 kicks in the end (counting +skills).
When you are having troubles with safety are you using CoS and MB enough?
You could socket the Nat's Shadow with Ral, Ort, Tal or Thul runes for resists (prioritize maxing Light and Fire res first). Or, you could try to replace it with a Skin of the Vipermagi.
Also, see if you can get or make a Black Flail, but again check the kick breakpoints as well.
You could also work with trap skill weapons on your switch. You should be able to shop +2 assa or +3 trap skills claws from Anya in NM. Use the red portal (if it's still there) to reset her inventory. It might take an hour to get two claws, but it is worth it. For normal kicking and DS laying you don't need to use this switch, but for when you don't want to get in melee range or against PIs this will provide a nice boost to your LS damage.
Thank you for the quick reply.
The link you provided didnt work for me? And also, I f**ked up when creating "Strength". I put the runeword in a scepter (was desperate, had some true crap before) with "fast attack speed" which sucks considering hitting frame breakpoints with the kicks...
I guess I dont use the MB and CoS enough but the main problem is that because of my weak traps/kicks, me and my merc easily get overwhelmed. And when facing LI:s, my kicks are too weak and my merc dies very quickly without killing anyone (and therefore not triggering the DS) making me run for my life.
Btw, my merc has Goldskin, Whoestave and Naj's circlet. A joke really...
I have a lot of low-lvl runes as the ones you mention so I guess that would work with Nat's Shadow.
I will try to find a pair of elite boots then too see the difference. Would you suggest me to change the NM def merc to a offensiv merc with might for additional kick-dmg until I find better gear?
I have my hopes to find an Um-rune so I can create "Crescent Moon"...is that a better choice than "Black"?, and in which 3 sox weapon exactly should I put it in?
(I fixed the link in the post above)
You can look up WSMs (base speed) of weapons on the Arreat Summit
Your merc really needs to get a better weapon. See if you can trade for a Bonehew or The Reaper's Toll (should be in the perfect gem range of price) and don't worry if they are not perfect or eth. Tal Rasha's Helm for a lot of life leech would help too. The armor is okish for now because it gives a lot of res at least, but upgrading it to a Duriel's or Shaftstop is something you might want to consider later. With CoS and MB you don't need to rely on the Holy Freeze aura, so changing things to a Might merc is not a bad idea.
Crescent moon is pretty good for a kicker. Ideally, you put it in a Phase Blade because of the speed and you don't care for the damage it does.
Avatar of Anubis
23-06-2009, 05:11
Adujar, what realm are you on? I can help you with some gear if you're on USEast.
Also, I cannot stress enough the importance of using Cloak of Shadows and Mind Blast. I have a kicker that I use to uber, and she's unbelievably awesome. I thought she was really groovy, until I got into hell. She hit a nasty roadblock, and I had a lot of trouble figuring out what was going on. Turns out she was just getting overwhelmed. As a pure martial arts/kicker she has no form of crowd control aside from her Phoenix Strike. Enter MB & CoS.
Whole new ballgame. These skills (used appropriately) can really take playing a sin to a whole new level. Your particular sin stands to probably fare even better in regular PvM play with her trap assortment.
Again, I can offer you some gear if you're on USEast; and I'll be happy to share what wisdom I have about assassin play-style in game if you like. Let me know. If you are on East, you can whisper me anytime. My accounts are *tempus83 & *tempus83_2. I'm usually on the 2nd one.
I ran into some similar problems, but it was more at the end of hell, not the beginning. What fixed it for me was changing from 1x upped Goblin Toes to upped Gore Riders for kicking (my attack rating was also too low because I had less points in DT than you - make sure you can get to at least 18 or 24 in your kicking gear, which may have less skills than your trapping gear).
If you have good resists, some Myrmidon Greaves (or at least some high end Elite class boots), and decent crushing blow, you should be able to do fine kicking + death sentrying your way through 90% of stuff in hell on players 1. To do the hard stuff or run on players 5+, you'll want to start getting some of the high end stuff in the guides you mentioned.
I would focus on getting some Elite boots and crushing blow first (upped gore riders are ideal, and not THAT hard to find or trade for, but a ghetto rare or something will work ok). Your trap damage is also pretty low. I suggest trying to get a Guillaume's Face helm and/or black flail first, then make a Spirit rune word monarch for trapping on weapon swap (you can switch to Fade to cover resists when you're trapping), since it's one of the easiest to make "endgame" items.
Beyond that, try to build 2 sets:
Trapping set with lots of +skills andy's visage, shako, +2 skills amu, sojs, bartucs, culwen's point, hoto, arach mesh, treachery, arkaine's valor, enigma, chains of honor, spirit monarch
Kicking set with crushing blow dracul's grasp, guillaume's, black flail, stormlash, death, last wish, shael'd wiz spike (good for uber meph), upped gore riders, shadow dancers, chains of honor, fortitude
You'll want to juggle your gear around based on what you're doing. For example, around obliv knights you mostly play as a trapper so you'd probably put on more skills gear. In areas like the Pit in act1, you'd probably just kick/death sentry everything so wear kicking gear.
Question about ubering for Anubis/Tempus:
I am sick of paladins so I built one of these assassins as my first uber character. I currently have a self-obtained organ set, but when I fought uber duriel I died once and about 5x on lilith because I kept getting strings of misses even with life tap proc'd, and I'd die from not hitting enough. Right now I'm sitting on the organs because I'm afraid the same thing would happen in uber trist and I'd die, spawn a million adds, and waste my keys. I also seem to have mana issues spamming DT on bosses with a 7% manald and no other mana leech - I have to pot every 20-30 sec to sustain it.
I only had lvl 16 dragon talon at the time, and had a 61% chance to hit (same hit chance as regular hell baal, so easy to test). Does this problem go away if I get my DT up a bit higher? Do I need to make some gear changes? All the guides on this build just say AR doesn't matter and DT has an incredible hit rate, but that's not what I'm experiencing (against pandemonium event bosses only - it's fine everywhere else). I made the character to test drive so I could figure out what to play for the ladder reset, but this hit problem has turned me off a bit and now I'm considering a smiter again (plz no paladins :*(, ruined by hammerdins) for the 100% hit rate in untwinked play. I would just level and test it, but my character is level 88 and I don't want to waste the time if the hit rating isn't going to get way better.
My gear is currently: dracs, raven frost(16dex/210ar), upped gore rider, resist ring/7% manald/2sojs/dwarf star, resist/+1 skill amu, guillaume's/andy's visage, shaftstop(um rune)/guardian angel(um rune)/smoke, spirit/2pdia moser's, black scourge/shael wiz spike/+1 skill wep, ik belt/credendum, 19/10/9 anni.
Stephan: Is the link you provided me with in the stickies somewhere? Very easy to see which frame you hit with different kind of gear, thanks! And I realize that my current weapon really sucks and I have to find another one a.s.a.p.
Regarding my merc...as you realize he doesnt really kill anything, heŽs just a lousy tank right now. Hopefully I can find some of the gear you suggest.
Avatar of Anubis: Thank you for the kind offer but I am at EuHCL...too bad, I would have been nice to get some good advice for assassin play-style for sure. I will take what you and others say about CoS and MB into consideration, but I still think that my main problem is that I dont kill fast enough and therefore get overwhelmed but those two skills will help a lot I guess.
Smirch: The problem for me getting all the suggested gear is that I dont have much (well nothing really except low-lvl runes and pgms) to trade for. Although I will try to get my hands on some elite boots and if im lucky, some good uniques or even upped gore riders. That will be my first mission. Second I will try to get the Guillaumes's face, and after that a decent weapon with CB. I recently found Venom grip, not the best out there but better than what I had and also with som CB (5%).
I dont think I'll ever be able to switch gear completely depending on what Im currently doing. I dont have the time to spend to either find the gear or to trade for it. I think I have to stick with what Stephan suggested, to buy a pair of +trapskill claws from anya. That will be my switch, perhaps together with a Spirit Monarch if possible.
I really love the assassin but maybe I think that the hybrid Im trying to get to work is to expensive for me. Maybe it will be better for me to build a true kicker and focus my gear on CB entirely? If someone is on EuHCL and have some gear to spare I will appreciate it but just because I want to see the true potential of the build. I usually dont like to get things for free but to find them myself. But hey, desperation makes people change I guess :)
Thanks again for your help guys.
Avatar of Anubis
23-06-2009, 09:50
The problem won't really "go away" at any attack rating. Still, more is always better; and I can't imagine someone telling you not to worry about it. That's horrible advice, forget you ever heard it.
When I do ubers, I have to switch quite a bit of her gear around; and I use some things that might not have crossed your mind for purposes of the ubers. The truth is, I've dropped almost all of my top-end gear on her. Between her & my ww barb, that's literally all of the good stuff I've found. I don't do trading, except for a few minor things here or there; like keys.
Here, let me list her gear for normal play; then for ubers. Maybe that will give you a few ideas.
Normal play:
Helm: 1os CoA socketed with shael
Amulet: Rare. +2Sin skills, 15all-res, 4%LL, 25%mf, 26 str. (That amulet is probably the single best item I've ever found. Even better than the perfect fathom last season.)
Weapon: "Beast" Caduceus. Totally worthwhile use of my only ber rune.
Armor: Tyrael's socketed with a 15all-res/7%fhr jewel
Shield:Stormshield socketed with eld rune for more block chance
Gloves:Rare. +2MA Skills, 20%ias, 24%fire res & other junk mods
Belt: Nosferatu's Coil
Rings: 7%ML manald & 4%BK
Boots: Up'd Gores
Charms:
11/17 Sin Torch
20/14/8 Annihilus
The rest are either all-res/life or AR/life.
As you can see, this keeps her very well-rounded. Some packs (frenzytaurs) with a bad spawn will still give her lots of trouble, but nothing she absolutely cannot handle.
Now, her gear for ubers:
Helm: 69 Kira's socketed with an um
Amulet: Angelic
Weapon: "Beast" Caduceus
Armor: Tyrael's
Shield: Sanctuary Hyperion for mass resists. DR% isn't that hot in UT
Gloves: Drac's. Gotta have 'em. Well, you don't but it's a royal pain without.
Belt: Nosferatu's Coil
Rings: 7%ML manald & angelic
Boots: Up'd Gores
I always use fade against Meph. I'm not 100% if her resists stay maxed with his conviction or not, but it's never posed much of a problem. Also, a demon-limb enchant prebuff never hurts. I strongly advise it. My sin gets her AR to 29k with this setup; which is sufficient to handle UT with few worries.
Once meph is dead, I switch to BoS instead of fade. I'm not certain of the DTalon ias breakpoints, but I just like BoS; so I use it anyways. Diablo & Baal are nothing to fear, just watch for Baal's mana burn ghosts.
I've made using CoS & mind blast a habit. It can get tedious having to stop after each DTalon set to use MB on the ghosts, but I don't mind it. It's just part of not being a cheesy smiter. Those of us who aren't paladins just have to make sacrifices like that.
Now smirch, I'm not sure if you're into trading or not; or even what your price range would be if you were. A black scourge is great for UT, you really don't need to worry about a better weapon. A kira's is an incredible helm to use for UT if your resists suffer from meph's conviction. I also can't stress enough to use fade against him, unless you somehow keep your resists maxed without it once his aura kicks in.
Of the armors listed, I'd go with G-Angel if you can max your resists with it. DR% (like Shaftstop) is largely useless once you're in UT. Not entirely useless, but in my experience resists are much more important.
Should you decide to use a kira's helm, remember that it gives you cannot be frozen. This frees up a ring slot from raven, allowing you to use the angelic combo (if you can spare your amulet). This will skyrocket your AR. You will have enough CB between the black scourge & the gore boots. More doesn't hurt, but isn't needed.
Changing the moser's shield out for a sanctuary one could also help. The resists could end up rolling a bit lower than the moser's with diamonds, though. Still, sanctuary (especially in a hyperion) will give her a better overall block chance (unless you were already at 75%). I believe meph's dreaded skull missile is blockable, so more block is always useful when a frozen ball of doom is flying at you.
If I think of anything to add, I'll edit this insanely long post later. I'll try to answer any more questions you guys have, but I'm not really an expert on assassins. I just really enjoy playing them. Oh, and smirch; let me know if you're USEast. I think I have a fleshripper knife sitting around, and that's an amazing weapon for any kicker.
Adujar: I didn't realize you were playing HC. I never play HC because b.net's stability is infuriating, and I just don't enjoy single player. I actually play "account-untwinked": I share items between my own characters, but I have zero items I didn't pick up off the ground myself, so obtaining good gear is certainly doable. Unfortunately, most of my items are from doing really sketchy under-geared meph/andariel runs with lots of ptopaz mf gear on a sorc with ridiculously negative resists chugging mana pots. I died a lot, but the payoffs are huge for someone just starting out. I only started playing again (from scratch) about 2.5 weeks ago, and I'd say my gear is quite good. Suicide sorc mf runs obviously isn't an option for HC. :P
Avatar of Anubis: My impression of the attack rating problem was that the guide writers were either A. clueless or B. assuming completely unrealistic gear, and you seem to confirm that. Unfortunately, even with my luck, I've never seen an angelic wings drop. And, as I mentioned above, I only use items I find myself. Maybe I'll go slaughter stuff on normal or nightmare in hopes of getting one.
I actually do have a kiras (58% iirc, pretty crappy, but I guess I could Um it). I haven't done any math to confirm it, but I think my best option is going to be to use:wiz spike(shael), guillaume's face(um), guardian angel(um), trang's belt(cant be frozen), upped gores, and angelic ring/amulet.This would be 50% crush, and I'd be able to hit the 9/3 frame kick breakpoint using fade, with the angelic AR boost and 90 resist all (plus thawing/antidote potion spam for 95%). If I drop raven, will I miss the cold absorb? Does it matter that I don't have any light absorb (I have a lightsabre if needed, but no tgods)? I was under the impression that meph's cold was pretty painful, but maybe it's ok with 95% from GA+thawing potion.
I also noticed that angelic wings has 20% damage taken goes to mana. You obviously take a lot of damage in UT, so are you able to drop manald for a resist ring or raven frost? I have a 2% mana leech, +4 str, +80ar, +21 cold res, +23 light res ring, would that work in place of manald (I have lots of fire resist, most lacking in cold/light)?
My concern with using kiras+angelic+black is that I drop to the 8/3 kick breakpoint with burst of speed (10/4 without - ewww slow), only gain 5% crush, and I don't think I can resist cap with burst of speed unless I use wiz spike, especially with the loss of a ring and amulet for resists.
I am already at 75% block with moser's - but only with the dex from my raven frost, but angelic 2set gives 10 dex so it might be ok. It seems like the better option, especially since countess hates giving me Ko runes. I wasn't sure if the DR% on shaft mattered at all, so that's definitely helpful information!
Regarding Realm/Trading: Yea, I'm on East SC Ladder. I'm down for grouping or helping with anything you need, but I'd rather stick to my items that are untainted by the "duped rune-baal bot-pindle bot-maphack-script kiddie" abortion of an economy. :) I don't even like using items from people that legitimately found them if they used traded (99% duped rune) runeword gear to find it.
I'll probably be power grinding levels/magic find when the ladder reset hits, and will consider trading again depending on what they do about dupes/bots in 1.13 (if anything). Hit me up if you want to group for anything - I always prefer party play - the way things used to be before baal bot/chaos bot leeching, mf bots, and duped overpowered items that allow any unskilled player to solo the hardest areas of the game ruined this game's public community. I'd love to get into some sort of semi-permanent group of 6-10 players that only traded items within the group with a "whats mine is yours" attitude and played together a lot.
Edit: my account is *snuggle on USEast. I only have 1 account atm but will be making a 2nd soon.
Edit2: This is a good place for me to publicly lament a recent find: +2 asn skills, +30 str, +19 resist all, 75% psn duration reduction, +7 psn dmg/3sec, 89% enh def rare circlet. The best part? It's ethereal, and I don't trade so Zod'ing it is out of the question.
Avatar of Anubis
23-06-2009, 20:19
Don't fear, smirch. I hear you loud & clear. As of this ladder season, I play completely legit too. Only gear that me & personally known friends have found. I've traded for a few minor things (like keys and 1 time a 4os War Scepter) on these forums; but that's it.
Still, I totally understand if you're more comfortable not using any gear I offer. Even so, I have an organset and you're welcome to uber along with me & my friends if you like. I even have a sin torch we got the other day sitting around, and it's all yours if you want it.
Regarding your gear. I actually forgot about the angelic ammy's damage goes to mana mod. I kept a manald on so far for the ML, but I'm not sure if it's necessary. I may try to uber next time without it & see how it goes. If so, that'll free up another ring slot. Also, if you're using a raven frost anyways; there's no reason to use the trang's belt except for maybe the life boost.
If you have the means to do so and are interested, a crafted blood belt could be a great option. More OW never hurts, plus it can score a ton of fhr & other sweet mods. But just so you know, I do have a spare dungo's sitting around if you'd want it.
Guillaume's is an amazing helm, but I really think Kira's is better for this task. It gives not only a ton of resists, but some fhr and also free cannot be frozen. That can free up a ring (& maybe belt) slot. Then you can make up the lost CB with your black scourge. If losing attack speed concerns you, consider a treachery armor. There's a reason it's the most popular of the 1.11 runewords, and I've used it to uber myself a few times. It works great.
I'm not sure if it's fade will override yours, but I don't think it will. Even if it does, it's never been problematic; and I just have 1 hard point in fade anyways.
Oh, and me & my friends have the same mindset as you. We play legit, we play in groups; and we split up every so often to speed up key-hunting. The top-end runewords are strong, but not overpowered. They're just too common. Any no-talent idiot can get them now, and most of the time they do. Still, cubing up runes & making your very own CoH is totally worth it. It makes you appreciate it that much more. We'd love to have you along if you're interested. Just whisper me in-game any time.
Just to give an update, the angelic set was all I needed to make it work. I didn't bother leveling up 2 more levels to get my dragon talon to 18 (I went in with 16). I was able to beat uber trist with no outside assistance. I only died on diablo, after baal and meph were dead, because I got cocky and didn't restock health potions before engaging him. :P I slivered him really fast, but I got a string of blocks/misses and died from no leech. Once I recovered my corpse and came back, I'd periodically switch to a pit lord with life tap on it and kick it for leech if my health ever dropped, since they don't have diablo's high block/defense. In the future, I'll probably use mind blast against diablo's minions a bit more.
My final gear I decided on was:
Wizard Spike (Shael), Mosers (2x pdiamond), Guardian Angel (Um), Guillaume's Face (Um), IK belt, Raven Frost, Angelic ring/amulet, Gore Riders (upped), Dracul's Grasp, Life Tap wand + Spirit shield on swap (for buffing fade on meph, and life tapping on the pull for each boss)
I actually forgot to chug thawing/antidote potions for meph, so I was only at about 50 cold resist, but I still killed him first try, and only took about 30-40 seconds to drop him. Baal was a complete joke, and didn't even really drain my mana much since dropping 2 lightning sentrys near him every 10-15 seconds would instantly kill any mana drain ghosts that spawned.
Ended up with a total garbage +3amazon, 14 stats, 10 resist torch.
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