A Humble Suggestion

[AFS]

Hello all. I look forward the next installment of our favourite hack-n-slash RPG. Part of the excitement and reason we put in countless hours and lose some sleep is the loot, the hunt for the treasured items. However, part of what I felt was flawed in D2 was the fact that the characters require high level items to be playable and viable on hell difficulty. It didn't come down to the builds and the skills of the characters, but rather what they were equipped with.

Now I understand that some of you may feel that item finding and hunting is integral to the building of the character, but I feel that it should be something extra and not a handicap. The flip side argument would be that if the high level items did not help on the hardest difficulty, then they would not so useful and would not be worth trying to find and trade for. They would be reduced to a novelty. This is a valid argument against the untwinked, hell-viable character, but it overlooks one obvious point: those items should be a novelty.

Take for instance your standard WW-Barb using swords. Play the game using two basic colossus swords (if you're dual-wielding) and some basic elite armor (the names escape me) for all your gear. Even with cl20 synergies and skills, you would be hard-pressed to survive Andariel. This sounds fundamentally wrong to me. Replace the standard crap gear with an IK set and now you're death on two legs.

I don't know if Blizzard reads these forums (they should), but the one request I deeply hope that is considered is that this game design is revised and adjusted towards the focus of the character skills and build primarily. Uber items should be a secondary focus in the character build. That's all. The rest is gravy for me.

How do the rest of you feel about this? Thanks for your time.

[Kiroptus]

Okay sounds fair. Yes I understand your point but we have to take into account that a game with such an addicting nature of hunting for the best loot avaliable makes the community quickly get what they want: To get the best equip avaliable. Now I agree that the game shouldnt be balanced around it but also when someone finally achieves their goal, it shouldnt be the walk-in-the-park that is D2 right now, for example: When a Hammerdin get his uber equip nothing can stop him, even on 8ppl hell difficult game. Thats to me, a scenario that can repeat itself at all, even a super powerful hero should find challenge somewhere.

But I agree with Singleplayer being a little more toned down, because it doesnt have the power of trading and playing within a community that also is gathering good equipments.

Now if you are talking about MP well... we have to acc that a new element is being added in D3: The focus on cooperation. There is a lot more incentive to have people cooperating to kill stuff, we always felt the need to play alone in hell difficult because of the competition for drops and the fear of someone being actually a jackass and use PK against you. That is gone, and in D2 Hell Difficult even a group of players with very very low gear can go through hell without much problems if they cooperate, its just.... never happens because no one wants to compete with other people for drops. So thats a new element to take into consideration, we need balance for solo untwinked, solo twinked but also and most importanly the balance for a group of twinked characters and for a group of untwinked characters.

We will see how blizzard handles it but I am confident that everything will do fine.

[AFS]

We will see how blizzard handles it but I am confident that everything will do fine.

I hope you are right.

[SlechtWeerBeer]

I don't know if Blizzard reads these forums (they should), but the one request I deeply hope that is considered is that this game design is revised and adjusted towards the focus of the character skills and build primarily. Uber items should be a secondary focus in the character build. That's all. The rest is gravy for me.

How do the rest of you feel about this? Thanks for your time.

No. That would essentially blow the spirit of Diablo I and II out of the water. Diablo is an item-hunting game for a reason.

[TheWhetherMan]

No. That would essentially blow the spirit of Diablo I and II out of the water. Diablo is an item-hunting game for a reason.

I agree. Gear should have a huge impact on a character's effectiveness, but characters with terrible gear should at the very least be able to contribute in group situations using buffs/debuffs and utility skills.

[raveharu]

Take for instance your standard WW-Barb using swords. Play the game using two basic colossus swords (if you're dual-wielding) and some basic elite armor (the names escape me) for all your gear. Even with cl20 synergies and skills, you would be hard-pressed to survive Andariel. This sounds fundamentally wrong to me. Replace the standard crap gear with an IK set and now you're death on two legs.

You get what you deserve, completing the entire set of IK is not easy for some of us.

If you put yourself into the shoes of a person who slowly accumulate his wealth just to get the whole set, wouldn't you want certain benefits?
So you mean you still want to be as weak as the barb with 2 basic swords after working so hard to get the set? I don't think so.

That's when the need for trade comes into place, and trading plays an important role for building the game's economy, and at the same time it adds flavor into the game.

It's kinda silly if you want items to play zero role in the game, since Diablo is all about item fetishes.

PS: I wouldn't like using D2 as an example, the economy is haywire, with all the duping, overpowered runewords and the trading threads are flooded with too many items.

[KTang]

I think D2 trading is one of the biggest highlights of the game, atleast for me. It's what keeps me coming back, I love trading on these forums. Item dependency is necessary, and considering how easy it is to level, I think making Skills the only major factor and dominant over Item Dependency wouldn't be the best idea.

As someone said earlier, item-hunting makes this game. I personally wouldn't want to be able to run through hell using an untwinked barb who has just picked up some crap magics on the way, but because of my synergised whirlwind I can clear x/y/z areas with mild difficulty because I "skilled so well". What I would prefer is failing miserably, but forcing myself to find these better items, and therefore deal with the x/y/z areas with a bit more ease.

I might have misunderstood you, just offering my opinion though :smug:

KT

[isak viking]

this thread made me start me 100th barb

[chezzmaster]

No. That would essentially blow the spirit of Diablo I and II out of the water. Diablo is an item-hunting game for a reason.

I agree with you there. If you look back to the diablo's series' hack-n-slash predecessors, they were all about a)defeating a gigantic learning curve (which exists at a ower level in the diablos) and b) epic loot. These roots shold not be forsaken.

[nEgativezEro]

Hello all. I look forward the next installment of our favourite hack-n-slash RPG. Part of the excitement and reason we put in countless hours and lose some sleep is the loot, the hunt for the treasured items. However, part of what I felt was flawed in D2 was the fact that the characters require high level items to be playable and viable on hell difficulty. It didn't come down to the builds and the skills of the characters, but rather what they were equipped with.

Now I understand that some of you may feel that item finding and hunting is integral to the building of the character, but I feel that it should be something extra and not a handicap. The flip side argument would be that if the high level items did not help on the hardest difficulty, then they would not so useful and would not be worth trying to find and trade for. They would be reduced to a novelty. This is a valid argument against the untwinked, hell-viable character, but it overlooks one obvious point: those items should be a novelty.

Take for instance your standard WW-Barb using swords. Play the game using two basic colossus swords (if you're dual-wielding) and some basic elite armor (the names escape me) for all your gear. Even with cl20 synergies and skills, you would be hard-pressed to survive Andariel. This sounds fundamentally wrong to me. Replace the standard crap gear with an IK set and now you're death on two legs.

I don't know if Blizzard reads these forums (they should), but the one request I deeply hope that is considered is that this game design is revised and adjusted towards the focus of the character skills and build primarily. Uber items should be a secondary focus in the character build. That's all. The rest is gravy for me.

How do the rest of you feel about this? Thanks for your time.

I think this more illustrates the issues with the monsters in the game more than the equipment. There's little to no strategy in D2. In most cases you run up to the monster, attack until one party or the other is dead. Making uber items a luxury would make the game very boring for those who find the uber items. Things would be too easy. Plus, theoretically, rares should play a more important role in the game, making those uber items less of a necessity and more of a luxury like you are asking. Rares in LOD are by in large useless, save for a few item types (essentially anything that can spawn with +skills and jewlery items).

In any sense, I'm not too worried. As each ladder season restarts I've never found it a problem to get my characters through the game. I may not get the very best items til later, but it's easy enough to find items to allow you to complete the game without too much trouble.

[Nimbostratus]

I appreciate the idea that people who dedicate themselves to the game and really hunt for items should have something better, but I don't appreciate when a game focuses too heavily on that aspect. When you get a game, it should be fun right out of the box- you shouldn't have to "earn" your fun. It should not only be possible to win with what you find on a single-pass playthrough of the game, but fun to do so. People tend to mix up the ideas of something being possible or viable with something being fun. To clarify this, there are four basic levels of viability for character/equipment setups in D2:


Possible: Through enough skill, luck, or plain attrition, you can get through the game with this. It takes a while to kill stuff, and you're using hit-and-run tactics often, but it's possible. At this point, the game is more like work to most players. In D2, this is where most untwinked characters usually fall.
Practical: AKA "Fun." You're not perpetually on the brink of death, and you can defeat your enemies in a timely fashion. D2 equivalent would be a character that's gotten a few uniques off of Mephisto in Nightmare.
Powerful: Now you can start wreaking havoc- normal monsters aren't much of a threat, and most bosses go down without breaking a sweat. Just don't get too cocky- some things can still hurt you if you're careless. Here's your D2 guy after a fair bit of Hell Meph running.
Overpowered: Nothing stands in your way. Equipment and (character) skills are strong enough that you can basically brute force the game. The only skills needed by the player are things such as "Don't stand in the middle of a champion pack of frenzytaurs." This is any cookie cutter build with "godly" equipment in D2.


Diablo 3 should strive to have everyone fall into the middle two categories- Practical and Powerful. You shouldn't have to do boss runs, area runs, or whatever just for the game to start being fun, nor should a massive amount of item hunting let you mindlessly plow through even the hardest targets. In a multiplayer environment, everyone needs to be remain relevant. If you're too weak, you might as well not be there. If you're too strong, the other players might as well not be there.


When you have massive power disparities between players based only on equipment, you encourage...

Leeching: Powerless characters are the leeches, and overpowered characters are accepting hosts.
Item hunting: Of course. Even with a relatively small power gap, you'll still have people looking for the best.
Botting: High reward, repetitive work. And just as strong equipment lessens the need for skill, it lessens the need for bots to have good AI.
Duping: Pretty obvious. D3 will have better prevention, but why leave out tons of bait?

and discourage...

Cooperative play: Players too weak to do anything hang back and do nothing. Players stronger than everything do the work for everyone else. If everyone is very powerful, the most cooperation you have is "let's all fire in the same direction so stuff dies faster."
New players: Ever notice how often it is that, when somebody new to the game comes asking for help, they're handed a shopping list of items and told to start Meph/Pit/Baal running? I don't know about you, but I find it much more satisfying to learn how to outmaneuver or outsmart an opponent than to be told "stop making progress and start doing repetitive tasks." That advice doesn't make for a very good first impression, either.
Skill: When your equipment lets you mow through everything, why bother learning how to play the game? (hello, eBay/rich friend)
PVP: To have any chance of winning in D2's PVP, you need either overpowered gear or experience against other players; preferably both. What does a PVP hopeful who doesn't like item running have? Neither. There's only so many losses until somebody says "screw it" and goes back to pure PVM. Even the impression of this kind of situation is highly discouraging.
Originality: Just as some like being the strongest, others like creating themed characters or simply standing out from the crowd. When everyone is focused only on the best, they search for specific items and cookie-cutter builds. Anything deviating from the top tier seems ineffective or simply called out for being "noob-ish."


On a final note, realize that we're all used to item running by now. Think back to when you first started playing- Did you think it was so easy? Did you think it should be such an integral part of the game? Did you think it should be a requirement for your character to be effective?

There's probably more I could add, and stuff I could clarify better, but it's 5 AM here.

[Starving_Poet]

I think you're looking at it incorrectly.

Beating normal can be done with a naked character on skills alone.
Beating nightmare can be done with moderate gear and good skills.
Beating hell needs to have both a focused skill-set and good gear.

Why should hell be easy?

[Risingred]

I think you're looking at it incorrectly.

Beating normal can be done with a naked character on skills alone.
Beating nightmare can be done with moderate gear and good skills.
Beating hell needs to have both a focused skill-set and good gear.

Why should hell be easy?

For mp, I agree. (D2 single-player is borderline b.s.)

Something to consider is that Diablo 2 is not a very well-balanced game. As others have mentioned, duping and the ridiculous runewords have added to this. But if I am to get to end-game Hell, which is where the buck stops and there's no more content, I want it to take a while. Now, if I can get through hell with basic equipment on, that seriously overpowers the uberbarb with the "best" items for his build in the game and makes Hell very boring. Nightmare? Sure. Not for hell. Hell is, as stated, the true end of the game and it needs to last and be as exciting as it can for as long as it can.

I think some of your issues will be addressed with the tweaked skill system. I hope they keep five ranks per skill (or levels if you prefer) because then you don't have to spend a ridiculous amount of points to get a skill to level 20 with minimum benefits per level. That handicaps the player and it makes for a very awkward strategy for building your character.

I know many won't like me saying this, but WoW had a great skill system (which was based on Diablo II's) with the XX/XX/XX in each tree kind of build where you could plot it out and it wasn't convoluted at all.

What I'm saying is that the skills seem a lot more cleaned up and focused now, which eases some burden on the player and also allows them to balance better in accord with equipment stats. They seem to have a clear vision for how they are going to balance the game from the outset, which perhaps was the downfall of D2's development.

[RogueJuggalo]

I appreciate the idea that people who dedicate themselves to the game and really hunt for items should have something better, but I don't appreciate when a game focuses too heavily on that aspect. When you get a game, it should be fun right out of the box- you shouldn't have to "earn" your fun. It should not only be possible to win with what you find on a single-pass playthrough of the game, but fun to do so. People tend to mix up the ideas of something being possible or viable with something being fun. To clarify this, there are four basic levels of viability for character/equipment setups in D2:


Possible: Through enough skill, luck, or plain attrition, you can get through the game with this. It takes a while to kill stuff, and you're using hit-and-run tactics often, but it's possible. At this point, the game is more like work to most players. In D2, this is where most untwinked characters usually fall.
Practical: AKA "Fun." You're not perpetually on the brink of death, and you can defeat your enemies in a timely fashion. D2 equivalent would be a character that's gotten a few uniques off of Mephisto in Nightmare.
Powerful: Now you can start wreaking havoc- normal monsters aren't much of a threat, and most bosses go down without breaking a sweat. Just don't get too cocky- some things can still hurt you if you're careless. Here's your D2 guy after a fair bit of Hell Meph running.
Overpowered: Nothing stands in your way. Equipment and (character) skills are strong enough that you can basically brute force the game. The only skills needed by the player are things such as "Don't stand in the middle of a champion pack of frenzytaurs." This is any cookie cutter build with "godly" equipment in D2.


Diablo 3 should strive to have everyone fall into the middle two categories- Practical and Powerful. You shouldn't have to do boss runs, area runs, or whatever just for the game to start being fun, nor should a massive amount of item hunting let you mindlessly plow through even the hardest targets. In a multiplayer environment, everyone needs to be remain relevant. If you're too weak, you might as well not be there. If you're too strong, the other players might as well not be there.


When you have massive power disparities between players based only on equipment, you encourage...

Leeching: Powerless characters are the leeches, and overpowered characters are accepting hosts.
Item hunting: Of course. Even with a relatively small power gap, you'll still have people looking for the best.
Botting: High reward, repetitive work. And just as strong equipment lessens the need for skill, it lessens the need for bots to have good AI.
Duping: Pretty obvious. D3 will have better prevention, but why leave out tons of bait?

and discourage...

Cooperative play: Players too weak to do anything hang back and do nothing. Players stronger than everything do the work for everyone else. If everyone is very powerful, the most cooperation you have is "let's all fire in the same direction so stuff dies faster."
New players: Ever notice how often it is that, when somebody new to the game comes asking for help, they're handed a shopping list of items and told to start Meph/Pit/Baal running? I don't know about you, but I find it much more satisfying to learn how to outmaneuver or outsmart an opponent than to be told "stop making progress and start doing repetitive tasks." That advice doesn't make for a very good first impression, either.
Skill: When your equipment lets you mow through everything, why bother learning how to play the game? (hello, eBay/rich friend)
PVP: To have any chance of winning in D2's PVP, you need either overpowered gear or experience against other players; preferably both. What does a PVP hopeful who doesn't like item running have? Neither. There's only so many losses until somebody says "screw it" and goes back to pure PVM. Even the impression of this kind of situation is highly discouraging.
Originality: Just as some like being the strongest, others like creating themed characters or simply standing out from the crowd. When everyone is focused only on the best, they search for specific items and cookie-cutter builds. Anything deviating from the top tier seems ineffective or simply called out for being "noob-ish."


On a final note, realize that we're all used to item running by now. Think back to when you first started playing- Did you think it was so easy? Did you think it should be such an integral part of the game? Did you think it should be a requirement for your character to be effective?

There's probably more I could add, and stuff I could clarify better, but it's 5 AM here.

I have most of my fun in Diablo 2 from trading and PvP. The only PvM character I have is a level 90 mf necro that occasionally satisfies my crafting addiction and helps me kill time when I don't feel like anything else. When I did start playing on single player (back when the only internet connection was the dreaded dial-up), finding cool items as I went through the game was a lot of fun. I never had any problems beating the game until I got to Hell, but I was in like 6th grade back then and I did end up beating the game and feeling really good about it.

I thought it was an amazing game back then and once I did start up on battle.net I began having even more fun. I love to compete in PvP to showcase my skills as a player and as a trader. Trading on b.net is frustrating at times, but overall it has taught me a lot and has provided me with a lot of fun.

Ultimately, I can see your points but they don't represent everyone who plays D2 as a whole. Also, I think the reason that people play online is to have a different type of fun as opposed to the 'traditional' fun you have playing through single player for the first few times when you're not worried about having the perfect godly build/gear but instead just focus on doing what you have to at the present to advance in the game.

[Starving_Poet]

For mp, I agree. (D2 single-player is borderline b.s.)


Just as a note, I only play SP HC nowadays, so that's where my perspective comes from.

[Krugar]

Without a strong and aggressive item-hunting focus on D3, I'd quickly lose interest in the game. That's what makes me tick in D2 8 years after it was released.

Such a game would be of little interest to me.

[Akse]

To OP. Yeah the game balance in is bad now. It was better before 1.10 synergies and stuff, it is really hard to do well in Hell difficulty now without really good gear which you obviously can't really find from Nightmare.

Without a strong and aggressive item-hunting focus on D3, I'd quickly lose interest in the game. That's what makes me tick in D2 8 years after it was released.

Such a game would be of little interest to me.
For me the game isn't about items but character development in levels.. While gaining levels I also keep finding better and better items.. I'll rather do it that way than just keep finding items items items items which is dull and makes the gained items pointless when all you do is just find more items.

[raveharu]

To OP. Yeah the game balance in is bad now. It was better before 1.10 synergies and stuff, it is really hard to do well in Hell difficulty now without really good gear which you obviously can't really find from Nightmare.


For me the game isn't about items but character development in levels.. While gaining levels I also keep finding better and better items.. I'll rather do it that way than just keep finding items items items items which is dull and makes the gained items pointless when all you do is just find more items.

That's because the way D2 skill tree was made, the flaw was that one can actually get their main attacking skills really early in the game in the 24's and 30's. Besides it's pretty easy to level your characters in the game, takes a few days to reach the 70's for multiplayer. Thus the majority of the game is mostly used for hunting equipments.

Now that we have skill runes implemented in D3, it brings a whole new level of experience into the game. We get to modify our skills, which makes everyone different from one another. And it makes hunting for items more interesting. I'm predicting they might add other surprises, besides the usual equipments.

[Synchrotron]

D2 was a lot easier before but when Blizzard added those ubber runewords they made the game too easy. The best solution would be balancing the runewords but they did the opposite and raised monsters toughness instead.

That resulted in a game almost impossible to beat in Hell difficult if you are playing SP or don't have any friend to help you on battle.net.


I think D3 will be a lot more balanced, IMO all people should be abble to beat the game on hell difficult, even if they waste hours and hours playing. The current D2 system is IMPOSSIBLE to beat on hell difficult if you don't have godly gear. Just encounter a pack of soulds and you are fried.

[Starving_Poet]

That resulted in a game almost impossible to beat in Hell difficult if you are playing SP or don't have any friend to help you on battle.net.

This is not true; the only time SP was 'challenging' was before they fixed the FELE bug and an FELE ancient could one hit kill ANY build.

[Galtrovan]

I appreciate the idea that people who dedicate themselves to the game and really hunt for items should have something better, but I don't appreciate when a game focuses too heavily on that aspect. When you get a game, it should be fun right out of the box- you shouldn't have to "earn" your fun. It should not only be possible to win with what you find on a single-pass playthrough of the game, but fun to do so. People tend to mix up the ideas of something being possible or viable with something being fun.

This is what Normal difficulty is for -- for the game to be fun out of the box and be completable with the equipment you find along the way. After Normal difficulty begins Nightmare, where you are replaying the game at higher difficulty. This mode is still doable with what you have found along the way, but at the same time becomes increasingly difficult and item dependent as you progress through completion of the game a second time. Hell difficulty, the third pass through the game, should require the upper echelon of gear and/or player skill in order to complete the game. Those that have both items and (player) skill, should find Hell mode moderately difficult. Those with either items or skill, but not both, should find Hell mode difficult to very difficult while playing through. Those with neither items nor skill should have their asses handed to them, find better items, and practice playing.

Bottom line, the game needs to cater to everyone.

[Nimbostratus]

The problem is that Normal, Nightmare, and Hell aren't treated as difficulty settings in the traditional sense. Yes, they make the game easier or harder, but in usage, they're treated much more like different acts rather than different difficulties. Perhaps it's because it's the same character, or because you have to beat the previous one before going to the next. Either way, just think about it for a moment- when somebody asks if their character setup can beat the game, are they asking about Normal or Hell? Are there any guides for characters just going through Normal?

Also, I never said the game should provide nothing for item hunters. Sure, the top items can still be hard to find, I have no problem with that. The thing that bothers me is that a practical set of gear still requires quite a bit of hunting- you don't really find viable equipment on a regular playthrough.

[Galtrovan]

The thing that bothers me is that a practical set of gear still requires quite a bit of hunting- you don't really find viable equipment on a regular playthrough.

You do find practical equipment on a regular play through, and with this gear you can beat Normal and most of Nightmare. However, completing Nightmare and playing through Hell should require a time investment and item hunting. Being able to complete Hell just by playing straight through - Normal, Nightmare, Hell - and using what you found would yield a game that is not even worth playing, in my book anyway.

[Nimbostratus]

Tell me, why would the game suddenly become unplayable if you can play straight through without needing to re-run areas or bosses?

[Galtrovan]

Tell me, why would the game suddenly become unplayable if you can play straight through without needing to re-run areas or bosses?

Buying the game, playing and beating Normal, Nightmare, and Hell, without ever needing to do any item hunting would be perfectly fine for my first character the first time through the game. After that though, the game would not be worth playing again. Why hunt for items when you don't need them. Why explore alternate builds when any build will do just fine. Why play again, you'll just win - easily.

Winning the game with what you found and the skills you chose should only happen in Normal difficulty, so anyone can pick up the game and have fun. Nightmare should increase the difficulty in order to make it apparent that equipment and skill choices matter, though still be mostly completable. Hell, as I said before, should kick your *** unless you put in the time to collect equipment and learn the nuances of the game.

Edit... Also, what about playing solo vs. playing in a party? All my comments have been in terms of playing solo. Playing in a party ones equipment does not need to be anywhere near as good as if playing alone. Playing a in competent party, one can indeed play through Hell with the gear they've found along the way.

[Nimbostratus]

With that mindset, it's amazing any game gets played more than once. Think of all the games that don't have any gear at all- surely there are other ways to keep the player's interest.

Forcing people to grind for every character is simply a type of fake longevity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeLongevity). What D3 needs is less of that crutch and more real longevity- mix up the quests some more, make low levels fun, have more diverse skills, give exploration a real point, and so on. Let the player be more involved than "retreat when under x health" and "have gear to reach X breakpoint with Y damage."


And about partying: Yes, people working together can do fine even if they all have lame equipment. The problem is that everyone having equivalent gear isn't always the case- When you're a large degree weaker or stronger than the rest of the party, it ends up not feeling like you're part of the group. You either have "Everyone beats things before I can get close," or "Jesus these guys are all useless, I'm doing all the work."

[Galtrovan]

With that mindset, it's amazing any game gets played more than once. Think of all the games that don't have any gear at all- surely there are other ways to keep the player's interest.

That's a long list -- of games I've never even played once.


Forcing people to grind for every character is simply a type of fake longevity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeLongevity).

People should not have to grind with every character. Once you have equipment for the first character you can either choose to grind for gear for the second or use the wealth of your first to get gear for your second.

What D3 needs is less of that crutch and more real longevity- mix up the quests some more, make low levels fun, have more diverse skills, give exploration a real point, and so on. Let the player be more involved than "retreat when under x health" and "have gear to reach X breakpoint with Y damage."

I agree with this. D2 LOD has way too much Act Boss/Baal grinding. Things need to be mixed up. I'd much rather explore open areas throughout the game for items and xp than run Act Bosses/Baal ad nauseam.

[Risingred]

Forcing people to grind for every character is simply a type of fake longevity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeLongevity).

...fake longevity? Says who?

The only reason I am still playing today, right now (minimized as a matter of fact) is item hunting. That's all.

[Galtrovan]

...fake longevity? Says who?

The only reason I am still playing today, right now (minimized as a matter of fact) is item hunting. That's all.

Me too. It's all about the items. I start-up every ladder reset, play until I find everything I want to find, and then quit letting everything expire. This way, if Blizzard doesn't reset before I'm ready to do it all over again, I've done my own reset. For this current ladder season I'm on my 3rd start-up. My goal for my current start-up is to see what I can acquire before Blizzard resets and releases patch 1.13. If Blizzard doesn't get their butts in gear I'll get bored and quit before the reset and patch actually happens -- something I never thought would happen as I didn't start until Blizzard announced the reset and patch COULD take place as early as the end of April (I think I should have saw that coming knowing how the release of 1.10 went down).

[Starving_Poet]

There are (were) a lot of Diablo 2 clones that came out and all of them had so much potential, but the one's that failed had, at the heart of their problems, a poorly designed item mod system.

[AFS]

I'm astonished by the number of players that rinse and repeat the game through monotonous and drone-like item grinding. This is where you genuinely get your excitement from playing? Either you folks are playing the wrong game, or I've got the wrong approach to Diablo.

False dichotomies FTW.

[Funkopotamus]

Diablo 2 has a huge item potential. What better game to hunt for items?

[sreda]

Hello all. I look forward the next installment of our favourite hack-n-slash RPG. Part of the excitement and reason we put in countless hours and lose some sleep is the loot, the hunt for the treasured items. However, part of what I felt was flawed in D2 was the fact that the characters require high level items to be playable and viable on hell difficulty. It didn't come down to the builds and the skills of the characters, but rather what they were equipped with.

Now I understand that some of you may feel that item finding and hunting is integral to the building of the character, but I feel that it should be something extra and not a handicap. The flip side argument would be that if the high level items did not help on the hardest difficulty, then they would not so useful and would not be worth trying to find and trade for. They would be reduced to a novelty. This is a valid argument against the untwinked, hell-viable character, but it overlooks one obvious point: those items should be a novelty.

Take for instance your standard WW-Barb using swords. Play the game using two basic colossus swords (if you're dual-wielding) and some basic elite armor (the names escape me) for all your gear. Even with cl20 synergies and skills, you would be hard-pressed to survive Andariel. This sounds fundamentally wrong to me. Replace the standard crap gear with an IK set and now you're death on two legs.

I don't know if Blizzard reads these forums (they should), but the one request I deeply hope that is considered is that this game design is revised and adjusted towards the focus of the character skills and build primarily. Uber items should be a secondary focus in the character build. That's all. The rest is gravy for me.

How do the rest of you feel about this? Thanks for your time.

Well you make a valid point, but Blizzard has already stated the most important part of this game is the loot. Which is not to say the game is going to revolve-or-die around it, but loot should be important enough to have everyone inclined on getting the best as soon as possible. Hell mode should require the best gear, I don't see it as a difficulty that could be approached from the start like in console games, great gear should be attained before being able to enter hell mode. Otherwise normal, and nightmare are useless. Everyone would aim for the best off the start. Plus, it gives us more to work for, which is what it's all about. You work, then you get your reward.

[Risingred]

I'm astonished by the number of players that rinse and repeat the game through monotonous and drone-like item grinding. This is where you genuinely get your excitement from playing? Either you folks are playing the wrong game, or I've got the wrong approach to Diablo.

False dichotomies FTW.

Do you know what's monotonous to me? Playing a game for 10 years.
What is there that is so new and exciting to do in Diablo II that you think I should be doing instead of item hunting? It's what I like. There's nothing wrong with that.

[AFS]

Do you know what's monotonous to me? Playing a game for 10 years.
What is there that is so new and exciting to do in Diablo II that you think I should be doing instead of item hunting? It's what I like. There's nothing wrong with that.

I understand.

I didn't play the game for years, and then decided to feel nostalgic after reading up on the latest DIII news. So I reinstalled and played Diablo 1 and then did the same with D2LOD. In all these times I honestly never tried almost half of the classes (druid, sorceress, assassin - can you believe it?), and the first thing I did was read up some guides on an untwinked druid build (volcano/dire wolf+grizzly). After that I thought for a bit and started this thread.

For me the excitement is in the HC mode and the team play. That's where I get my thrill of the game. I made a new account, mucked in SC with the sorceress to unlock HC, and then finally dug into HC with the druid.

[Risingred]

In all these times I honestly never tried almost half of the classes (druid, sorceress, assassin - can you believe it?)

I most certainly can. I think my record for a barb is level 12. I just cannot play that class, and the assassin is even worse. To each their own...I am simply incapable of appreciating that gameplay. But funny enough I love my werebear and my pally.