Get Serious- Here is Hard Worked Factual Serious Speculation on the next D3 classes.

[commonhumans]

Okay. Number one. This is still speculation. Obviously. Number two. I realize that many of these things have been said before but I'm trying to cut through all of the forum garbage and trolls to compile a solid factually based guess about what will actually show up in Diablo 3.

With all of the above being said, what do we know about Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 that we can use for context clues to try to make a truly educated guess for the next 2 classes appearing in Diablo 3.

Now. I'm not going delve deep into what all these classes skills will be, I will just touch on a basic weapon usage and possible skill trees. If you all want to take this and run with it after we figure out what will most likely show up, then be my guest.

So. First we need to list what playable classes we have had.

Diablo I: Rouge, Warrior, Sorcerer.
Diablo I Hellfire (unofficial): Monk, Bard, Barbarian.
Diablo II: Sorceress, Barbarian, Necromancer, Amazon, Paladin.
Diablo II LOD: Assassin, Druid.
Diablo III: Barbarian, Witchdoctor, Wizard.

...and now the non-playable classes from Diablo 2

Act 1: Rogue.
Act 2: Town Guard Spear/Pikeman.
Act 3: Iron Wolves Clan Mage.
Act 4: None.
Act 5: Barbarian Soldier.

Super. There we have a list of all the characters, playable and non, that have actually or will actually be fighting in the Diablo trilogy. Now that we have a solid foundation to build from lets talk a little about what we expect from Blizzard.

From Blizzard most people know that we can expect simplicity. Simple = Fun. Its that easy. We can also expect Originality (but not off-the-wall-ity) and when I say originality I don't mean they are going to throw a robot in the world of Diablo, I simply mean they no how to take a character that has existed in the realm of fantasy and make it fresh, new, and their own (point and case - Witchdoctor). We also know that Blizzard has said the Barbarian is the only call that is returning from the Diablo series... at least until the expansion of Diablo 3.

Okay, So thats more of what we know and at least some of what we come to expect from our good friends at Blizzard. So now we can actually start working on something. We can work on what we know wont show up! So say good bye to the following!

Rogue
Sorcerer
Sorceress
Warrior
Necromancer
Amazon
Paladin
Assassin
Druid

Toodles guys and gals!

So from the original cast we are left with Monk, Bard, A3 Mage, A5 Soldier, and Pikeman! But hey! You said that Blizzard said that only the Barbarian was coming back! You are right! I did! So why did you list all that stuff as maybe coming back? Because, the Bard and Monk were in the Hellfire expansion that, as many of you know, was no produced or distributed by Blizzard! And we never actually played as a Mage, Soldier, or Pikeman even though they showed up in game... but we can probably take mage off of that list... its just a wizard with a different hat. Goodbye Mage! And okay okay okay the A5 Barbarian Soldier is still pretty much just a Barbarian. So we can count him as already counted.

Moving forward! Lets talk about what type of character classes have been filled and what still needs to be filled. By character classes, I mean, type of charter, melee, magic, and ranged, that sort of business.

What has been filled.

Barbarian: Extreme full frontal melee class.
Witchdoctor: Summoner class.
Wizard: Extreme full frontal magic class.

We know that Blizzard said there will be 5 classes. This leaves two open to major debating.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT WE KNOW TO BE ACUTAL TRUTH.

From here on out we enter into that dangerous realm that is speculation. We all have opinions. These are some of mine and a lot of yours I will assume, especially since I've been pulling a lot of this out of other forum posts.

Okay. Class types that are considered classic fantasy game fare that could appear and have yet to filled are as followed!

Ranged.
Support.
Defensive.
Shape shifting.
Stealth.
Wild Cards.

Now I saw classic fantasy game fare, and I say it for good reason. Blizzard isn't going to drop and alien into the world of Diablo (and yes I am WELL aware that the did it in World of Warcraft). Blizzard isn't going to drop a gun slinging cowboy in here either. True fans wont like it and if true fans don't like it... true fans wont play it. So Blizzard knows who the have to please and what they have to do. But... to please the masses i have added a wild card section. because there is always something that can break the mold and fill a void.

Now I know that I did not cover every type of class that exists out there in the fantasy realm, that would be impossible, at least with my level of knowledge when dealing with fantasy stuffs, but what I did cover I am fairly positive is what could show up in Diablo 3 or the expansion of Diablo 3.

So again, moving forward, what character will fill in these openings? I will name what I THINK will the most likely choices for the 6 class types I listed before. I will try to list at least three types of characters per possible class type. There will probably be repeats in here and most of these (if not all) choices have been pulled form other speculation posts on either the diablo.incgamers.com forums or Blizzard forums, the others are my own speculation. Lets begin.

Starting with the Ranged class spot:
Hunter. Ranger. Bard. Trapper. Warden.

Support:
Priests. Monk. Cleric. Muse. Poet. Bard. Seer. Medic.

Defensive:
Knight. Pikeman. Shield Bearer. Savior. Guardian.

Shape Shifting:
Bard. Dryad. Shaman. Seer.

Stealth:
Ninja. Warden. Thief. Rebel. Scoundrel. Outlaw.

Wild Cards:
Demon Hunter. Mentalist. Jester.

Now look. I know I have left out a lot of stuff and I know I've said it before this is all speculation. My speculation. My forum crawling research. I've been taking what I've seen the most on the forums and other stuff that I have found either lying around in fantasy books here or in search engines on the web. The wild card class are the 3 things I like the most that didn't quite fit a spot of the classic fantasy genre... I don't really expect to see them in the game but hey it would be really awesome to have that twist in there.

The speculative moment you've all been waiting for and the two classes I truly believe 100% will show up. And before you all moan and groan for some reason or another just read what I have to say about each of the following classes. Maybe I and the others who share my opinion can finally change your mind about the following.

...aaaannndddd. here. we. go!


THE BARD

Without question I feel that the Bard will appear in Diablo 3. I cannot say wether of not it will show up in the core Diablo 3 game or the expansion, but I have a gut feeling it will appear. I can hope that it will show up in the core game because I would love to play it. So some of you are probably less than impressed, some of you might agree and be in the same boat as I am.

This character will take the Support and POSSIBLY some shape shifting elements. When I think of a Bard, I think of nature and music... and that creepy guy that played the flute and made all the rats attack townsfolk. Skill trees could possible be Lyrical (buffs/debuffs), Nature (control wind/water/wildlife), Cunning (knife/sword/thrown skills). Weapon usage would be mostly knives and short swords and possibly thrown. Almost a hybrid but not quite. As a side note the Lyrical Tree would be applied like the Necromancers curses, by clicking a spot and having an AOE.

This character class could be so amazing if created and I feel if Blizzard took on the Bard it could become incredible. Not the pansy lute playing bard you would classically come to think of but a really twisted enigmatic character with an agenda for revenge. Like it has been said... Originality. The Bard doesn't have to be called the Bard. I feel that Bard, Muse, or Poet could all work just the same. What ever the final name is, I think this character will be top notch new and exciting, not to mention highly versatile.


THE DESERT MERCENARY/PIKEMAN

Whatever you want to call him. I think this spear carrying mother jumper is going to be a key player in Diablo 3. Just look at that HUGE expanse of desert... then look at information we've already been given. The Barbarians came from Mount Arreat. The Witchdotors came form the jungles below Kurast. It only makes sense that there would be a guy from the huge desert section of the world.

This character will fit the Defensive/Ranged niche quite well I believe. Trees would be Polearms (spear/pike skills) Ranged (Bow/Crossbow/Javalin Skills) Charisma (Auras). Weapons would obviously be polearms and bows/javalins. As a side note the Charisma tree would work as a Paladins auras tree worked. Being that this character is a specialist in polearms, he would probably be able to use shields with his pike/spears. High defensive and tank abilities.

This guy is a safe guesstimation and my number 2 pick for a character that will most likely show up in the Diablo 3 core game. Based on my research and yes... as said before... your forum posts as well. If you haven't guessed the Pikeman (as i am referring to him) is going to be takes the coveted spot of the Paladin with a little twist of amazon/rogue.

Alright. After all my forum crawling, lore surfing, fantasy researching, Blizzard knowabouts... these are the big picks, the big talked about, the safe but the different, the original enough and fun. The trees and skills are debatable, but I leave that up to you, I just took from and added to particular classes and tried to round out the best possible combinations. Now I could be COMPLETELY wrong and Blizzard could come from left field on this one and god knows they have done it in the past... but I feel these are the solid choices to tie up the last two slots in Diablo 3.

Now I didn't for get about the other classes we all came up with and if I had to guess on 3 more characters. they would probably be...

1: Thief - Stealthy dagger skills, traps, and ranged attacks.
2: Monk - Fist weapon using, concentration and mind skills sort of like a "force push" and probably disarming skills.
3: Warden - Probably a ranged and sword class that uses traps.

Wild Card- The Jester. An illusionist of sorts, thrown weans and lots of distracting tricks with decoys and scare tactics. (I don't actually expect him to be in at all, it would just be pretty cool I think.)

So there. After all of that. Thats what I have come up with. Love it. Hate it. Flame it. Troll it. Spread it. Post it.
I leave my post to the mercy of the forum gods. thanks for your time guys. hope you enjoyed.

-The common human.

[stillman]

Well constructed post. A few concerns:

There is one magor hint you left out: gender neutral name. This is a huge factor. The d3 classes barbarian, wizard and witchdoctor are all names that can be male of female. So Amazon, Caveman/Cavewoman, Priest/Priestess are out. Those are just exampels off the top of my head. Of course, Cleric could go in which is essentially a priest.

I think you can remove support and defense classes based on clues Blizzard gave us. They want every class to stand on his/her own. There will be no supportive class that is based mainly on helping other characters.

I am almost certain bard is out of the question. There were a few threads about bards and I already posted at length in those. Basically, we can picture a barbarian covered with blood and guts of his slain foes, having catapults and stuff launched at him and he is so tough he takes it and wants some more. We can also picture a wizard storming out onto a battlefield and using protective magic to avoid/absorb the incomming attacks, and annihilating everything in site. No problems there at all. But a bard...it's VERY hard to picture a musician with his fine features and clean clothes storming out onto a battfield to face fireballs, catapaults and arrows coming at him. How can a bard get his hands dirty when he needs those fine hands for an instrument? It just doesn't work at all no matter what spin you put on it. We can picture all the d3 classes so far as being killing machines on the battlefield, but not a bard. A bard is primarily an entertainer, not a warlord mass killer of armies. It just doesn't fit at all. Any attempt to put in a bard would feel VERY forced. Pictuere Alton John storming out onto the killing field. Come on. Why not get the barbarian or wizard to do this? They are expert killers.

One more thing: I think it was d2 characters Blizzard said won't be making a comeback in initial release. So I think d1 characters are still a possibility. So it can't be mage becase we already have the wizard, not the warrior (we got the barb), but Rogue is a good possibility in my mind.
Rogue is a gender neutral name.
Rogue is already established in our hearts and minds and fits perfectly as the bow expert.
Rogue allows for stealth, combat, treasure hunting, traps and all kinds of blended ideas they want to put in there.
Storywise, rogues were rescued in d2, so now it's time for them to make their big comeback in d3!

The only problem is they would need to expand the Sisterhood of the Sightless Eye to include males, but Blizzard could do that easily. There has to be some male thieves in thier group or they will die out.

[squid knight]

i can picture a bard on the battlefield, deftly spinning/dodging everything and skillfully planting well-placed attacks as he goes, or maybe sending out a fan of knives or a deafening, paralyzing tune, or something. and it would be more epic than the other classes because there would be fitting music to accompany the seas of blood and violence.

OP, i think you left out some of your reasoning. in the two classes, you mentioned the area of sanctuary they came from. i'm willing to bet there's at least a little bit more you left out.

anyway, an approach i was toying with was the magic approach. since quitting wow and waiting on d3 news, i needed something else nerdy to pass the time, and me (and a few friends) picked up magic: the gathering earlier this year. i don't know how familiar a lot of you are with the color pie, but i think that our 5 classes all fit within a color of the magic pie. the barbarian (in fighting style) is red--emotive, impulsive, passionate. the witch doctor fits in possibly either green or black, and the wizard in blue. that leaves a white class left and either a green or black class left.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/9/98/Color_wheel.jpg

i just thought it was an interesting train of thought. ^^ i doubt blizzard uses that, just something to toy around with.

[commonhumans]

You both make good points.

@Stillman - About gender specific naming, I wasn't necessarily saying that the names would be official, merely hinting at probable class type we could expect. The names I chose were just the most widely accepted names for what the classes are classically known as.

As far as the Bard is concerned, when we think bard we think skinny pale lute wielding ect. ect... like the kings son in Holy Grail. He just... wants.. toooo SIIIING!!! Stop that! Stop that! But seriously, I think Blizzard would be able to take the Bard and transform it something that is complete original and finally make people want to play as something they would normally scoff at. The musical instrument would be secondary to the class... an innate ability. Its just assumed that you already have a flute/guitar, and that instrument would only be used when you cast buffs or debuffs. You wouldn't have to collect guitars and flutes as weapons... that would just be silly, even I'll admit that. Haha.

@ Squid- I'm pretty sure I over looked a lot of reasoning and left out a bunch, most of which would have be repetitive and boring. Plus after work on that post for about 4 hours I was starting to get burned out.

I am right there with you when it comes to quitting WoW and waiting on D3. And I have been a card carrying (bad pun?) Magic the Gathering player since 4th edition core set came out. that was like what 10 years ago? And your approach with the 5 colors is really well planned. I like it and you should probably go deeper into it. Id be glad to help out if you needed.

I would say color and classes are as followed (thus far)

Red - Barbarian (Strong Impulsive chaotic arm swing smash destroy everything)
Black - Witchdoctor. I mean zombie wall? yeah. black magic indeed.
Blue - Has the be the Wizard. Just look at MTG. Blue is flooded (puns!) with wizards

Leaving us with these two guys!

Green - Nature, is MTG youve got your elves and they are good ranged/stealth/shifters
White - Your classic Knight color, the shield bearing protector of all.

Then you look at MTG hybrid classes with golden cards for expansion possibilities... you get the point... but I think you are onto to something really good there.

Thanks guys.
...and sorry about the spelling errors.

[TammerHime]

First off nice job,

Really from what ive seen of each of the classes it looks like they are setting it up to take 1 type of charecter from each act of D2. We have barb from act 5 we have the witch doctor from act 3 and i guess the sorc would probaly have to go to act 4 (only one that dosnt make sense but meh). So really what do we have left some kind of nomad from the desert, and then kind of rouge/ranger from act 1.

I would love to see something like the bard, but i belive he will be more of a magic weilder/fighter. And then we will have some form of the rouges from act 1. Because if you look at how d2 was set up before LOD we had 2 casters (sorc necro) 1 pure mele (barb) 1 magic/mele (pally) and then 1 physical caster type (amazon). I belive that they will follow something like that for the last to classes.

[squid knight]

@ Squid- I'm pretty sure I over looked a lot of reasoning and left out a bunch, most of which would have be repetitive and boring. Plus after work on that post for about 4 hours I was starting to get burned out.

I am right there with you when it comes to quitting WoW and waiting on D3. And I have been a card carrying (bad pun?) Magic the Gathering player since 4th edition core set came out. that was like what 10 years ago? And your approach with the 5 colors is really well planned. I like it and you should probably go deeper into it. Id be glad to help out if you needed.

I would say color and classes are as followed (thus far)

Red - Barbarian (Strong Impulsive chaotic arm swing smash destroy everything)
Black - Witchdoctor. I mean zombie wall? yeah. black magic indeed.
Blue - Has the be the Wizard. Just look at MTG. Blue is flooded (puns!) with wizards

Leaving us with these two guys!

Green - Nature, is MTG youve got your elves and they are good ranged/stealth/shifters
White - Your classic Knight color, the shield bearing protector of all.

Then you look at MTG hybrid classes with golden cards for expansion possibilities... you get the point... but I think you are onto to something really good there.

Thanks guys.
...and sorry about the spelling errors.

i was thinking the WD could possibly be green too though because he gets his powers from that Unformed Land deal.

[Technomancer]

Heck, a couple nights ago, I was trying to compile a list of locations from which the various characters have come from to try to predict themes for the next ones. Lessee...

D1-D2 chars (I never play HF, so no idea. I don't think that would count for or against anyways.):
Warrior - Khanduras
Rogue - All-over
Sorcerer - Vizjerei(Cadeum)
Paladin - Westmarch
Sorceress - Same as Sorcerer
Barbarian - Mt. Arreat
Necromancer - Jungles outside of Ureh
Amazon - Twin Seas Islands
Assassin - ...Not sure
Druid - Scosglen

Mercs:
Rogue: Khanduras/Entsteig
Deset Warrior: Lut Gholein
Iron Wolves: Kurast(I don't think they originated there)
Barbarian: Mt. Arreat

D3:
Barbarian: You know where... :D
Wizard: Xiansai/Cadeum
Witch Doctor: Torajan Jungles

So, if you eliminate the most importantly used places, it's easier to list the possible leftovers:

Completely unused:
Viz-Jun
Gae Kul (I know nothing of this place)

Loosely used:
Lut Gholein
Kurast
Ureh
Entsteig/Sharval Wilds
The other Western cities like Kingsport(They're in the middle of a lot of lore, even though we've never seen them.)

Now, all of the major warrior classes have come from the Western Kingdoms, which would be a good setup for a warrior from the East. Maybe some kind of a Heavy Knight, Mage Knight, or Ranger from Viz-Jun, Gea Kul, Ureh, or even Lut Gholein? There was a picture of a Desert Warrior, but people seem to be under the impression that it was scrapped for the Barb. If they wanted to keep with tradition, a Ranger/Hunter would be a good fit for Entsteig. I think that's where most Rogues are from, though.

As for magic classes, they all seem to some from the east. ALL OF THEM! So perhaps we can see something of a magic heavy class from the West? A Cleric or Light Caster would fit best with the lore. For Holy characters, the Zakarum are based in Kurast, and that hasn't really been tapped, so that may be a possibility. I suppose a non-Light based magic class could come from the west, but it'd be a awkward fit, lore-wise.

They say there's gonna be a focus on Ureh, but I've never read the novels, so I don't know where that would go, I just know Necros are from near there. NECRO-KNIGHT! :D

We've seen a lot of the West, I think there'll be a large emphasis on the East. We've already got 2 out of 3 from there, so I'd say one more from each.

I guess I don't have much in the way of real predictions, but I just thought I'd share my "Sanctuary Demographics" research!

As to the color wheel, yeah, I'd say WD would be green too. That leaves Yellow and Black. Hmm, Inquisitor and... NECRO-KNIGHT!! ... Sorry, couldn't help myself...

[NASE]

I am almost certain bard is out of the question. There were a few threads about bards and I already posted at length in those. Basically, we can picture a barbarian covered with blood and guts of his slain foes, having catapults and stuff launched at him and he is so tough he takes it and wants some more.

Your idea is influenced by the lore you read (as with us all). Problem is that you apparently haven't read the lore you need to understand the possibility.

Lets take something we all know. Lord of the rings. Look at the elves and the halflings. They both spend a lot of time performing art, music, poetry, song, stories.
Count in the fact that they both really care about their looks and look quite fine. Count in the general huge wisdom of the elves and you effectively described two bards (or certainly possible bard implementations).

And still, they fight and kill orcks like there is no tomorrow.


And there are more examples of bards playing a very important role in battles. All it takes is a little imagination to put them in the diablo universe.

[edit]
I however agree that it's quite unlikely.

[wishforskillz]

True fans wont like it and if true fans don't like it... true fans wont play it Unfortunately its the casuals who want stupid stuff like alien cowboys that make up the majority, so blizz will still make a profit.

[Panzerschwein]

We also shouldn't rule out classes that could come from the same organizations as previous classes.

Sure we've had archers from the Sisters of the Sightless Eye before, but who's to say that we won't see other types that come from the monastery, like a witch or some sort of melee rogue.

Warriors from d1 are a pretty vague idea as well. In fact the game lore even says that they come from a variety of background including paladins. It's entirely possible that we may see a specialization of the Khanduran warrior.

Is everyone in the Cult of Rathma necessarily a Necromancer?

[commonhumans]

Guys,

Thank you for all your continued input.

I posted this same thread on the blizz forums... and as expected the majority of the responses there were flame and troll... but there was a glimmer a ppl who actually thought about their response and added to the thread in a intelligent manner.

@ Squid- Going back the WD and his color according to the wheel. Now I can see where you are coming from about him also being Green as well as Black... but look here he comes from. Look back to D2 as you exited Kurast into this swampy jungle. He might have a few elements of green with his poisons and what not but I think all in all hes got plagues, controls bugs, and summons the undead creatures. That's gonna put him on the dark side no matter how you look at it.

@ Technomancer - The list of were all the classes came form is a huge help. When and If I get around to tuning up my original post I might have to throw that in there. Same with squids color wheel theory. No worries mad props will be given to both of you. Class speculation is group a effort 100%. Its boring having to do it all alone.

Now about my blizz post I made. A lot of people that are really pushing the Desert Bandit/Thief Class. It was a hard choice to make on the "Pikeman" but I thought it would be different enough but still safe enough for everyone to accept... But the more I think about I think Thief might be a more likely character coming along. The only issue with me admitting that is that it throws my Bard theory out of the window.

So unfortunately even with all the work we are still back to basics when it comes to what is probably going to appear...

A thief or nomad from the desert.
A ranger from wherever.
A knight from westmarch.

It could be that simple... but Id like to think it wont be. Besides even there we still have 3 choices that have to narrowed down to 2.

[commonhumans]

Panzer brings up a good point about not ruling out the organization of previous classes.

Does anyone have a list or think they could compile a list of all the clans and groups that exist in the world of sanctuary? I could give us another direction to start looking in.

I'm sure you guys know a lot more lore than I do so... the more information we can get in one place the better.

[LaZeR]

Well a lot have been written in this thred, but not much new was said (As OP mention in first post). So let's go step by step:

1. I'd be VERY suprised to see the Bard. Stillman's description is the best answer to why. I mean, NASE, I can picture Elf smashing Orcs, but not with a flute in his hand. I mean, he can be a well-dressed, pretty looking, scholar char, but none of his skills should show it- His skills should be brutal and damaging.

2. The only real things I think are sure about the reamining chars are:
* There will be a ranged class. Not all Range, because that not D3-like, but not half/half range-melee, because that's not Range enough. It should be Ranger with little melee and a side Tree (like traps or divine skills).
* There will be fast melee char. If the Barb is all about power, this one will be all about speed. A different, and almost 100% sure different aspect of a melee fighter.
* There will be a holy char. I'd be super suprised if not. It's Blizzard, and we need Holy skills and that light versus darkness theme.
* There will not be a dark char. I think the WD covers this aspect. I'm not 100% sure about it though.
* The 5th char will be something special. Most likely if the 4th is a typical D&D char, Blizzard wouldn't want evertyhing to be so normal and worn-out.

This is better since it leaves us with only two chars:
1. Holy Ranger/ Fast figher (probably desert themed).
2. Wild char which I can't predict since I trust Blizzard to make it extra unique. Possibly Shape Shifting.

That's my logical assumption. The only flaw I see in this plan is that there is no room for a typical Shield&Sword char. Problem. But can be solved in three ways:
* Blizz won't make one- Too much of a regular used class.
* The S&S char will be the 5th unique char- Unlikely, but if added additional unique skills, might.
* Scrap the Ranger/Fast fighter for a S&S char- Yep, maybe. But it must have a major Range aspect (unless the 5th is the massive range one, which I highly doubt).

P.S- the WD is black. It's not close to Magic's Green cards theme.

[CombatShrine]

Wow I never expected to see people talking about Magic when I opened this thread. Bringing the color pie into this thread was a smart move; makes organization alot easier!

I disagree that the Wizard is mono-blue. She has strong attack magic, and some control spells (like the bounce-back skill). She is blue/red hybrid imo.

For a mono-white class, I think there will be a Knight-type class in the game, but no pally auras; mostly combat-oriented. Possibly buffs/debuffs (similar to the elemental Sabers from Secret of Mana 2). What could be really cool is if he could charge into battle on a noble steed/horsey. Horsemanship skill tree!!!!

There is no reason the character classes would need to be human, or that we are limited to solely the unused locations on the World Map. Maybe a Merfolk/Atlantean class?

For a Death Knight knockoff seems plausible, however trite that class has become. Perhaps a dark version of the Druid (Demonlord?), that can shapeshift into demonic beings or ghosts, and wields fire + shadow magic.

Black also likes to be sneaky, so a Ninja class would fit in perfectly. The Assassin was kind of like a Ninja, but similar to the way root beer is like Killian's. I mean a REAL ninja - the sword, the throwing stars, the throat-slitting, the secret techniques. THAT would be cool :D

A mono-blue character would be difficult to make in this game. Blizzard said they are going for epic-feeling, all-out DPS skills, and blue/white likes to sit and stall (until they drop a big angel or something.) The best I can think of would be a Spellbreaker/Anti-magic Knight, or a Cleric-Summoner that summons holy beings/angels.

Though, if they put a Ninja in the game, they will need to add a Pirate to restore balance to the universe.

Condensed version of my post:
White: Knight, Cleric-Summoner
Blue: Pirate, Merfolk, Atlantean
Blue/White: Spellbreaker
Black: Demonlord, Death Knight, Ninja

[squid knight]

Unfortunately its the casuals who want stupid stuff like alien cowboys that make up the majority, so blizz will still make a profit.

first i want to say that i have continued faith in blizzard to create gameplay that is satisfying to both old, diehard fans and new casual players alike.

Wow I never expected to see people talking about Magic when I opened this thread. Bringing the color pie into this thread was a smart move; makes organization alot easier!

I disagree that the Wizard is mono-blue. She has strong attack magic, and some control spells (like the bounce-back skill). She is blue/red hybrid imo.

i agree...the combat style is definitely blue, in my opinion, but she has some red in her for being going rogue and causing all kinds of trouble.

For a mono-white class, I think there will be a Knight-type class in the game, but no pally auras; mostly combat-oriented. Possibly buffs/debuffs (similar to the elemental Sabers from Secret of Mana 2). What could be really cool is if he could charge into battle on a noble steed/horsey. Horsemanship skill tree!!!!

i think knights are too typical, and barbs cover the sword and board class already, even if they do use the shield more aggressively--but i suppose that's all part of being atypical. ;) instead, i'm really feeling the monk. i think he would fit perfectly into the white niche.

Black also likes to be sneaky, so a Ninja class would fit in perfectly. The Assassin was kind of like a Ninja, but similar to the way root beer is like Killian's. I mean a REAL ninja - the sword, the throwing stars, the throat-slitting, the secret techniques. THAT would be cool :D

ninjas seem too over the top for diablo...but maybe i'm too hung up on the naruto stereotype.

A mono-blue character would be difficult to make in this game. Blizzard said they are going for epic-feeling, all-out DPS skills, and blue/white likes to sit and stall (until they drop a big angel or something.) The best I can think of would be a Spellbreaker/Anti-magic Knight, or a Cleric-Summoner that summons holy beings/angels.

well, i don't think the color pie translates over perfectly to the diablo world. obviously diablo would take the core properties of the color and implement it in diablo's fast-paced and gothic way (so, for example, everything might have a bit more black in them). the time slow could be considered blue control...i'm reminded of the Time Stop and Time Stretch cards. :P

Though, if they put a Ninja in the game, they will need to add a Pirate to restore balance to the universe.

i think pirates could be a possible expansion...i think westmarch/tristram and the whole desert caldeum/lut gholein are underrepresented, and probably where the next two classes will be from, but i do notice the skovos isles down south, too. i would be ecstatic were there to be a pirate class. :D the skovos isles and the dry steppes area seem like good sources for two expansion classes.

[Brandonn]

I don't want aliens and cowboys, but I think some kind of steam punk, or some kind of builder class could be new and different - although I'll admit, I can't picture how it could fit in or work.

I'd like Blizz to stay away from traps, it seems to go against how Diablo should play - run ahead, plant some traps, run back so the enemies go into them... Or maybe they could fix it up somehow. Stealth seems like it would work better for some ninja-like class.

Whatever they add, I hope they put a fun spin on it.

[LaZeR]

Condensed version of my post:
White: Knight, Cleric-Summoner
Blue: Pirate, Merfolk, Atlantean
Blue/White: Spellbreaker
Black: Demonlord, Death Knight, Ninja

1. Knight with Horse Skills would be AWESOME. Cleric seems too much of a buff char which Blizz said they won't make.
2. I think Blizz DID say all chars are Human. And Wiz is blue..
3. What the hell is a Spellbreaker?
4. Death Knight is too corny. Ninja is a problem since Stealth and Traps don't go well with D3 fast pace (especially comparing to the Barb's Fury system). And WD is black...

I totally agree with the Magic color scheme.
WD is Black, Barb is Red, Wiz is Blue. We're left with
White- Holy char
Green- Meh, don't like Green. Maybe a Woodsman which focuses on range skills.

[brandoh]

I wonder if it's time to consider a new possibility - a more non-human character. It seems to me that a holy character could be angelic or something... likewise a dark character demonic. Perhaps a vengeance tale to be played out here. Also, I like the tech aspect - remember, Larzuk talked about inventing a gun at some point. These to me seem like approaches blizz could take to put a kink in tradition.

[squid knight]

Cleric seems too much of a buff char which Blizz said they won't make.

important distinction here: blizz says they won't do a support class. self-buffs have the potential to be an interesting mechanic to base a class around, in my opinion. if blizz wanted to do something like that they could pull it off no problem.

[ZeroSkin]

I really liked the OP. Thanks for taking the time to write all of that. I also enjoyed LaZeR's points and will piggyback off of them a little.

My predictions:

1. Mongolian bowman/swordsman type. Fast attacks, range/melee skills, and demographically unique.

2. Knight. A Warrior or Paladin archetype must be represented in D3, and I'm going with Knight because it is the most obvious. Horse skills would be crazy entertaining.

It would be cool to see something unique like a Bard or a Changeling, but those will come in the expansion.

[criticize]

i can picture a bard on the battlefield, deftly spinning/dodging everything and skillfully planting well-placed attacks as he goes, or maybe sending out a fan of knives or a deafening, paralyzing tune, or something. and it would be more epic than the other classes because there would be fitting music to accompany the seas of blood and violence.

OP, i think you left out some of your reasoning. in the two classes, you mentioned the area of sanctuary they came from. i'm willing to bet there's at least a little bit more you left out.

anyway, an approach i was toying with was the magic approach. since quitting wow and waiting on d3 news, i needed something else nerdy to pass the time, and me (and a few friends) picked up magic: the gathering earlier this year. i don't know how familiar a lot of you are with the color pie, but i think that our 5 classes all fit within a color of the magic pie. the barbarian (in fighting style) is red--emotive, impulsive, passionate. the witch doctor fits in possibly either green or black, and the wizard in blue. that leaves a white class left and either a green or black class left.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/9/98/Color_wheel.jpg

i just thought it was an interesting train of thought. ^^ i doubt blizzard uses that, just something to toy around with.

I like the concept of the magic wheel ( and I assure you, blizzard has probably looked at this for some inspiration), but I believe you have some misplacement on you initial placement of the known characters.

Wizard - black - It is well know that the d3 wizard is self indulgent, careless and power hungry.

Barb - Green - He is a survivalist, maybe not naive as much as he once was, but he's the only one from D2 that is still around, survivor.

Witch Doctor - Red - The witchdoctor is all about chaos, plagues, bats, horrify, flame skull.

So that would leave a yellow and blue slot open.

Elite Soldier from Caldeum - Blue
Warrior Prophet - Yellow

[Ishtor]

I read this whole thread and i got to say first off, that this has been one of the better threads i have read. I would also like to throw my to cents in. I know we can speculate all we want, blizzard more than likeley suprise us all, atleast with the 5th class.

The magic color wheel was awsome. Kudos for putting that up. it has been mentioned that diablo and most rpg's is very D&D based, and magic the gathering is as well. And provides a good outline for us to follow. I really think the WD is Black, and Wizard is Blue, and the Barb is red. I know blizzard said that each class is going to be very DPS oriented, but all the color do have there more powerful creatures, and that to me is what our heroes are. the white and green color class is wide open.

Staying on the magic the gathering kick, i notice alot of creature spell that get reach (which allow them to block flying creatures) is of the green color. So the ranger class to me is more than likely be in the green color class, maybe haveing some nature spells simular to the druid, but also having range abilities with bows and crossbows.

White, is defantly the holy class for the game, there are ways to make this a ranged charecter also. There is a picture of a dessert type warrior float around, you could be a religous type person. in which some have already speculated, using range, stealth and trap like abilities. Very well could fit some holy in him.

About the Bard, apparently sierra when making hellfire found someway to include this charecter in the expansion for the regular game. Yes, as i said the name of the company that made the origanal expansion, blizzard would not of let them do something they did not approve of, it would never went past the concept stages. So there is already a skeleton for the clas they could follow.

Bliizard never said that they will not bring d1 classes so another option would be a monk, this would be a fast agile charecter. Holy background and would use fist and bows (like a walking stick, not the ones you shoot.)

I dont think a sword and shield class will be nessasary, a barb can equipe both, alonf with other classes, i think ranged and holy is the bigger spots that need to be filled. But i am sure blizzard is going with a wildcard that will fit into the 5th class, becuase stuff they said like, we dont have a charecter model or something like that.

I havent even played the game yet, but already for the expansion to get some more classes. I am so used to have 7 classes to choose from now, going back down to 5 is goint to be wierd. but i bet i will have plenty to do till the expansion come outs. Thats a little off topic sorry, back to ontopic stuff. This forum has been filled with our ideas, alot of them really good, one that i have seen alot of attiention towards lately is the arcane warrior, which could also be a greta idea, a great mix between magic and melee, but to me that would be more of the wild card class. although thinking of it it would hit the S&S and holy class if done right and could be a good replacement fromt he paly.

to me though a knight type class would be a gimp paly, knowing he would not be able to use his trusty steed, since they wont be able to ride a mount. Also the death knight would not fit, not only it being a Warcraft class only, the dark based class has been taken up by the WD. Pirate would out out of place with guns, which is something i would not like to see, Ninja is a little far fetched - because there sterio type is actuall what they were (anyone else watch "World deadliest warriors").

Bliizard will only do human type charecters, so Robots and alliens are out of the question, along with merfolk. (merrrrrrrrrrgul. some of you will get that) So are elfs, no pointy ear freaks allowed.


But at the same time, people have brought up lore from diable and lsiting places for ideas for were these classes can come from, we could study the lore and find possible classes that come from each place, but blizzard can only take 2 of the remain classes for d3, but we can limit those choices a little bit, because we would not need a summon, mage or brute fighter type class since we already got those. Chances are no matter what we will never know til blizzard tells us whats what. They said something about the dervish type charcter, and then said a no to it, or atleast that is what they are claiming? so that is still a possible class too. Oh Blizzard why is blizzcon still so far away? I am guess that we will get the ranged class next, i can wait to see what it is.

[Ishtor]

I like the concept of the magic wheel ( and I assure you, blizzard has probably looked at this for some inspiration), but I believe you have some misplacement on you initial placement of the known characters.

Wizard - black - It is well know that the d3 wizard is self indulgent, careless and power hungry.

Barb - Green - He is a survivalist, maybe not naive as much as he once was, but he's the only one from D2 that is still around, survivor.

Witch Doctor - Red - The witchdoctor is all about chaos, plagues, bats, horrify, flame skull.

So that would leave a yellow and blue slot open.

Elite Soldier from Caldeum - Blue
Warrior Prophet - Yellow

i think they were right.

Barb is defantly a red class - very strong and brute force, hasteful and just wants to smash stuff.

Wizard is defantly a blue class - very controling, the time bubble that to me is controling and cunning.

Witch doctor is the black class- plagues is defantly a dark thing, not to mention spells around zombies and rats, that pretty black to me.

and the remaining spots would be green and white (not yellow).

[squid knight]

I like the concept of the magic wheel ( and I assure you, blizzard has probably looked at this for some inspiration), but I believe you have some misplacement on you initial placement of the known characters.

Wizard - black - It is well know that the d3 wizard is self indulgent, careless and power hungry.

Barb - Green - He is a survivalist, maybe not naive as much as he once was, but he's the only one from D2 that is still around, survivor.

Witch Doctor - Red - The witchdoctor is all about chaos, plagues, bats, horrify, flame skull.

you know, i was thinking about that...and in my opinion, the colors corresponding to the fighting style may not be consistent with that of their personality/lore. so in that sense, maybe there are two color wheels to think about.

although i do think the barb's personality is somewhat blue, especially the inaction aspect (in the wiki i was reading about how the barbs respond to attacks on mt. arreat), but he's also supposed to be somewhat grizzled and sagacious.

anyway, in my opinion:

witch doctor - black fighting, green lore
barbarian - red fighting, blue lore
wizard - blue fighting, red or black lore

so we have green and white fighting to fulfill, and white and either red or black lore to fulfill. i think this is an interesting way to narrow it down...if we make a wild and completely unfounded assumption that white and white go together, then we could say we need a class with green fighting and black/red personality, for example.

[squid knight]

There is a picture of a dessert type warrior float around, you could be a religous type person. in which some have already speculated, using range, stealth and trap like abilities. Very well could fit some holy in him.

i know it's a typo but i just pictured a barbarian armed with giant spoons flinging cake and ice cream at the prime evils...:crazyeyes:

Pirate would out out of place with guns, which is something i would not like to see,

i agree about the guns, but pirates don't have to have guns. there's more pirates than existed during the golden age of piracy...there are pirates now and there were pirates way before gunpowder that (i think, i'm not sure) alexander the great had a war with. when i think pirates in diablo, i think more like an adventurer who has a lot of experience with the sea, who finds his way deeper inland after hearing rumors about whatever is going on.

[CombatShrine]

3. What the hell is a Spellbreaker?


http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/units/spellbreaker.shtml

Its a Warcraft III unit, but it has been done in the D&D universe I think.

The class would be a pro at disrupting enemy magic users. Some shoe-in skill ideas would be damage bonuses vs. magic users, spell steal, reflect, silence, and stealing summoned minions from your enemies. Imagine going into the Chaos Sanctuary, and being able to bounce Oblivion Knight's own Lower Resist back at his party!

Basically, the class would easily defeat enemy magic users, but would need skill to defeat big, brutish enemies.


Wizard - black - It is well know that the d3 wizard is self indulgent, careless and power hungry.


Not exactly. Carelessness is definitely a red trait. Self-indulgence is mostly black, but also blue. Hungering for power is not exclusive to black - it is also red and white. Black craves power at any cost. If the Wizard had spells that cost life to play, that would be black.


I'd like Blizz to stay away from traps, it seems to go against how Diablo should play - run ahead, plant some traps, run back so the enemies go into them... Or maybe they could fix it up somehow. Stealth seems like it would work better for some ninja-like class.

I agree. Traps in Diablo 2 were basically spells-in-a-can; there wasn't anything "cunning" or "sneaky" about them. It was just "Hey. There is a gang of bad guys. I will cast a Lightning Sentry in the middle of them and they'll trip it. Shazam."

If a Ninja class was made, it would be best without any traps. Look at cool ninja-themed fighting games, like Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Shinobi on the PS2, or hell even Mortal Kombat. Those are more the kind of Ninja I am thinking of - tough, relentless, and sneaky when needed. Blizzard wins brownie points if the announcer ever yells FINISH HIM! :D

Condensed version
Clarified what a Spellbreaker is: http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/units/spellbreaker.shtml
Offered insight as to why the Wizard is blue/red in magic terms and not black.
Agreed that traps shouldn't be in Diablo 3. A Ninja class would not need traps to be effective. Examples of good ninja-themed fighting video games were given to base the class off of.

[Ishtor]

i know it's a typo but i just pictured a barbarian armed with giant spoons flinging cake and ice cream at the prime evils...:crazyeyes:.

Its sad really i got a degree in computer graphic desighn and i still suck at typing. The fact i am a horrible speller does not help either, but thanks to you i have that picture stuck in my head. "eat the cake diablo!" we will just make him fat and lazy and kill him off with a heart attack, snack attack for the win!


i agree about the guns, but pirates don't have to have guns. there's more pirates than existed during the golden age of piracy...there are pirates now and there were pirates way before gunpowder that (i think, i'm not sure) alexander the great had a war with. when i think pirates in diablo, i think more like an adventurer who has a lot of experience with the sea, who finds his way deeper inland after hearing rumors about whatever is going on.

I see what you are saying, i guess is the jack sparrow stereotype i am think of, and that defantly would fit. But what you said would be cool. I know what ever blizzard has up there sleaves will do one of two things though.

1) blow our minds as we say " wow that is the coolest thing i ever seen, and i never saw it coming."

2) "thats it!?"

i dont think there will be the responce "thats kool" in the flat montone voice where you are neither impressed or un-impressed.

I still think the ninja clas how ever still does not fit, sorry to everyone who wants a ninja, but i dont want to see that in my game....


the spellbreaker other than being elvin would be a kool addition to the game, a class made to build self resist that uses a sword and shield. Buff that would up there resistances or reflect certian type of spells. Like skill to enchant the shield to help reflect magic, or attacks, although this could be over powered easy, so it would have to balanced nicely.

[squid knight]

in my opinion, the spellbreaker seems either too passive or too defensive for the fast pace of the game.

[Amortization]

I agree with the approach of seeing which angle to character feel needs to be explored. I think the most probable are ranged, stealth, and shape shifting. Other secondary angles would me motivation and attitude such as: holy, discipline, or wild card/ totally new.

I would love to see a Samurai class. He could use a sword but could also be proficient with a bow/xbow. This would take care of the ranged class. He could also be a very disciplined and calm almost like a monk. He could be the "holy" type character.

The other two angles that I think need to be explored are the stealth and shape shifting. I think these could be combined to make a unique character. Imagine a character that shifts into a smaller creature or something with camaflague. I know this would be very hard to implement and balance but it would kind of also take care of the "wild card" character also.

I really doubt that Blizzard would name the remaining classes anything that has been named in any of their games. This removes all the names from Wow and Warcraft 1, 2, and 3. But I could be wrong because they did use Diablo 1 class names for Wow.

[Brandonn]

Let me reinforce a theory here. commonhumans's "THE DESERT MERCENARY/PIKEMAN", Only I will call it "Caldeum Warrior". Read through the Caldeum lore: http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/environments/caldeum.xml

There is a lot of mage wars/battles going on, but also there is a force of people that won't let their nonsense mess with their trade. So that makes me think of an elite guard of some type. Then their king dies, and they get a new ruler, and everything is changing from the new settlers from other lands, plenty of reason for some of these guard to go out on their own. Also look at the art on the webpage listed.

Anyway, just some supporting evidence.

[LaZeR]

in my opinion, the spellbreaker seems either too passive or too defensive for the fast pace of the game.

Agreed. You have to wait until an enemie strikes you, with no actual offensive skills?
Not to mention this can easily be super overpowered especially in PvP- Reflect everything that comes to you?

I think everything has been pretty much said here about the new classes. It will be either:
* Holy
* Range- based
* Fast melee
* Sword & Shield
* Stealthy

With any combination from that list (correct me if I've left out everything)

With the idea that the 4th char would be more basic D&D, what do you think the 5th Wild Card char would be? I mean, I think even a Horseman idea is not unique enough for the 5th char. I want something really crazy.
Any suggestions?

[CombatShrine]

When I suggested Spellbreaker, I did not mean for it to be a carbon-copy of the War3 class. Only as a basis.

Any class can be made proactive. What if he had a skill that just stole/gave you all the abilities the target enemy spellcaster had? That's pretty proactive. Even better if it silenced them at the same time.

He could also have his own attack magic.

For a wild-card 5th character, I would just pick something "unique" from this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dungeons_&_Dragons_character_classes

Psionic/Mentalist could be cool. How about a Dragon Shaman? Summoning big, beefy dragons to incinerate the enemy. That would rock!

[LaZeR]

Yeah, but that's too unique.
I'm thinking of a Wild Card char that stills makes sense in Diablo 3 and fit all we know so far:
No returning char, no massive magic char, no dark char, no heavy summoning char, and no non-human char.

I mean, I'd LOVE to see a Geomancer, but now it's too similar too the Wiz gameplay and the WD style to be an actual char (At least I think so).

[commonhumans]

Wow. I didn't check my thread for a day and I've got a lot to catch up on here. My responses may be a bit out of order, but lets give this a whirl.

Spellbreaker - MEHHHHHH... The class would have to have so much reworking away from it original purpose I don't think you could call it a spellbreaker any more. I just don't think that it will fit in.

Geomancer - Would be awesome... but its just a Wizard that throws dirt :(

Pirate - Seriously? I'm gonna need a lot of convincing for this one.

@ Lazer- You reiterated the remaining classes with a little clean up but I think we can probably leave off stealth class. After going back and looking at the assassin, she had no stealth, even a Ninja wouldn't have true stealth, so I think your addition or speed/agility based class would replace the stealth spot.

@ Brandonn- Caldeum Warrior sounds way way way better than Desert Pikeman. Thank you.

@ Ishtorr - I have a degree in graphic design/advertising and I cant spell either :)

All this thinking is making my brain hurt but I think im ready to change my mind about the two classes that will show up in D3 core.

Nomadic Thief - Maybe a friend of the rogues. Agility based attacks. Sprint and stab attack. Traps. Tricks. Ranged attacks as well.

Knight - Class holy sword and board. Its got to be in here. It wouldn't fantasy with out it.

It hurts to admit it. But uhhh... yeah... My theory is out the window :(
..there is always the expansion though!

Did I miss anything?

[Ishtor]

thanks common humans, its good to know that i am not alone :) may us bad spelling graphic artist stick together lol.

I forgot all about the geomancer idea that was suggestion some one made in another thread. I think geomancer could be an awsome addition, but i think it would be more of an expansion charecter. Saying he would throw dirt, is not nice.

I want to say this before my next comment, which i might recieve alot of crap for saying this, but i hate naruto with a passion, but this will be the onlytime i would refer to it. There is a charcter in this anime who power revolve around sand, which is basically just a geomancer, and he was in my opinoin through the games i played, the most awsome charecter in that show.

There would be alot of really kool passive abilities along with some of the coolest attacking abilities in the game. Creating a rock armor buff, causeing earth quakes just to name some obvious, i dont see him being close to the wizard though.

[Ballsman]

DoooooooooooooooooooooosH! Nice boat ya got dere, doe.

[lunarleif]

THE BARD
Without question I feel that the Bard will appear in Diablo 3. I cannot say wether of not it will show up in the core Diablo 3 game or the expansion, but I have a gut feeling it will appear. I can hope that it will show up in the core game because I would love to play it. So some of you are probably less than impressed, some of you might agree and be in the same boat as I am.
Support:
Priests. Monk. Cleric. Muse. Poet. Bard. Seer. Medic.
1) The bard doesn't fit very well in Diablo :nono:
2) The bard in Diablo would be a good April fools Joke
3) Diablo is most likely not to have a healing class
THE DESERT MERCENARY/PIKEMAN
1) Couldn't you hire those in Act 2?
2) That would be an awesome idea, if it was revised a bit
3) I think that warden would fit better



Overall
1) This is a creepy death world, not Dungeons and Dragons.
2) you played Diablo 2, and the Diablo 1 expansion doesn't count as Diablo so you have no right to even bring that up :nono:

[commonhumans]

1) The bard doesn't fit very well in Diablo :nono:

2) If you want to sound :spammer::spammer::xxx::xxx::xxx::xxx: :offtopic: :offtopic::disagree::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:, don't think about diablo when you post. Have you played Diablo 2, and the Diablo 1 expansion doesn't count as Diablo so you have no right to even bring that up :nono:

...What? I know the DI Expansion doesn't count thats why mentioned that in my post... And what makes me sound like a spammer? And what do you mean don't think about Diablo? This is a Diablo (I,II,III) forum, is it not? And yes you can use the Desert Merc in Act 2 as a hireling, I also went over that in my original post as well.

Sorry... I'm just confused about your response.

[knightmawko]

I've heard somewhere, dunno where, that they do not want a healer so much of support is nixed, also stealth does not seem diabloie, so that's pretty much nixed to. I'm banking on one ranged and one melee/caster hybrid, like a medium melee unit with casting and augmentations, maybe even berserk skills.(like the dragonere I have sudgested)

Other then stealth I think that one that could be likely is something like.... speed I guess? Just like, wel, like my Blackhand, but I mean like...... like a bandit or a Highwaymen, not really stealth but based on low melee damage, but fast attack speed and some mid range stuff or even legit range to go with it. Maybe, and I hate to say this, traps, allthough it has been said the Assassin will not return, maybe like bombs and such, I bring my Blackhand into it again




Is everyone in the Cult of Rathma necessarily a Necromancer?

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7118893#post7118893

I said something like that in my Dragonere class, not really from the cult of Rathma, but worshipers of Trag oul who are not necromancer

[TheMightyShoe]

Pirate - Seriously? I'm gonna need a lot of convincing for this one.

You know, the more I think about the Pirate the more I like the idea. A kind-of "high-seas rogue" who journeys and fights for gold and treasure. Weapons could be balanced toward short, one-handed swords (cutlass and sabres) and daggers. Dual-wielding would be a must, with some sort of "weapon block" in place of shield usage. Harpoons could be used as well as slow but high-damage thrown spears. Magic could lean toward ranged fire attacks--a weapon of pirates long before guns. Other powers could enhance gold and magic finding abilities. True, pirates have been recently turned into children's entertainment, but consider Cervantes from the "Soul Caliber" games. He's mean, tough, and dual-wielding. (There's a really good pic in the Soulcaliber wiki.)

[commonhumans]

You make a good point Shoe... I suppose that a Pirate is just as plausible (if not more) as my Bard theory... Both have stereotypes to over come and both could be really solid character types.

[Kokolums]

I think a monk is likely. Then maybe one very "dark" character like an undead / vampire / werewolf, which would fit into the theme that destroying the worldstone has changed things for the worse in Sanctuary.

[CombatShrine]

A Pirate totally needs to have a gun though.

Not a machine gun or a grenade launcher like the Somali pirates, but definitely a flintlock pistol, like they had in the days of high-seas adventure on the Spanish Main.

That could be really cool and explorable design space though.

At his lower levels, his aim would be poor and reload time would be slow. You could have a fast-reloading skill and a marksmanship skill to make his shooting better.

I'm not sure how I would play. Dual pistols? Sword and pistol? Sword and saber? All seem plausible for a Pirate class.

How awesome a "Shore Bombardment" skill be? You just click and his ship from off-screen pummels the area with cann0n ballz.

[NASE]

1) The bard doesn't fit very well in Diablo :nono:

Why?
2) The bard in Diablo would be a good April fools Joke

Why?

3) Diablo is most likely not to have a healing class

Why do you think bards can only be a healing class?

[sreda]

Amazingly I was not turned off by the massive wall of text. I read it full through, and for the most part your logic seems sound except for the wild card bit. But like you said we never know, I feel the thief class would be a more likely candidate, it's a class that consistently delivers and that everyone wants to see. But that may be why it won't be one of the two new classes, Blizzard has a nack for surprises. All in all, I'm a little disappointed there wasn't a necromancer but I suppose the Witch Doctor will suffice my cravings for an undead/evil summoner.

The pikeman on that other hand seems like a dull class. No matter which way you cut that cake, it's going to be boring. No one wants to play a pikeman, and being the long-awaited sequel to Diablo II I think Blizzard wants us to be surprised with new and original classes. Like you said again, the Witch Doctor definitely reflects that.

Back to the thief class, we've seen so many different MMO's that have incorporated this archetypal 'thief' or 'stealth' class that it would seem like a great feat to somehow redeliver this class in a new and original way.

My 2 candidates for the next upcoming classes would probably have to be:

1) A cunning/quick class, perhaps a scout of some kind. That can specialize in range and melee confrontations. This could fill the range and thief niche the game seems to need.

2) A shapeshifter or spiritualist. Someone who is a hybrid between a nuker and a self-sustainer. More along the lines of a battlemonk, or a cleric.

I'm willing to bet the two new classes will be hybrids like I've listed. There will be no support-only class so a healer is out of the question.

[lunarleif]

Bards have always been people who sing and do tricks. Not really fighters. In many games they have been support characters that basically boost strength. Furthermore, at the heat of a battle, Rogue camp, in the weird jungles, the deserts, and Mount Arreat, there was never a single bard. No story collecting practicing bards, nada. They would also be like paladin's with their aka bard's songs.

Pirate, horaay! It would be original, as long as you discounted the boring pirate from Adventure Quest. Guns aren't going to be in Diablo 3, are they? Would you like to have guns in Diablo three? Pirates also set the mood for a world of non cave exploring battles.

"We have no intentions to create a tank, or healer, etc."
Read more: http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Bashiok's_forum_posts#ixzz0JZcgn5jB&C
pwn. That's Bashiok.

[Ishtor]

Pwn? what did you pwn?

anyways, Sierra had an idea for a bard and how it work in the world of Diablo. Yes before you start flaming i know Hellfire was not made by blizzard, but blizzard would not let them do something they would not agree with, i am sure sierra had to get approval from blizzard with everything. Not saying Barf is going to be in the next diablo, but it deffantly has a fair chance.

Pirates would be dumb, so would guns. I rather them introduce an allien race to ressurect diablo, and give him alien technology to boost his powers and to give him new ones.

[Technomancer]

I have to say, I hate the idea of a pirate. I mean, it could be done, and done pretty well, but I think it would just cheapen the game somewhat.

Everyone always has this image of a Bard as some floppy, not a care, sing-songy douchebag. That's very narrow minded. In D&D, Bards are a 3-way cross between fighter-thief-mage, and were one of my favorite classes. Sure, they have their hobbies, but they are really a jack of all trades and can add flair and capabilities that can't hardly be found elsewhere. I think a Bard could be a great class for D2, but requires some creative thought. They would have a range of skills, spanning some other classes. They could make a psuedo-stealth class, a bow and specialized melee fighter, and a specialized buff/debuff and attack/defense magic caster. They could have standard abilities like being able to automatically ID items, get bonuses from using scrolls and books (if they are in D3), and automatically know more about enemies' abilities and weaknesses through extensive lore knowledge.

It would probably be a class that requires some thought to use to it's fullest. It wouldn't necessarily be the go to "point, click, kill" class that the Barb and Wizard are gonna be, but I think it could add a great deal of fun and depth for people who want more than that without having to make a deliberately weakened character. It would be far from a lame, floppy support class.

[lunarleif]

Bard is to support oriented, making it independantly survivable would be hard without bending strings.

[Ishtor]

support is just one part of the bard, i think it would take place of the paladin very nicely!

[lunarleif]

Songs=auras, as previously stated. Though it would be more ranged?

[commonhumans]

In my interpretation of the Bards song, it worked more like the Necromancers curses in D2, where you point and click and have an AOE. It would be difficult to play a lute and stab monsters in the face at the same time.

[NASE]

here was never a single bard. No story collecting practicing bards, nada. They would also be like paladin's with their aka bard's songs.

We have seen 3 cities in diablo II. The rogue camp doesn't really count. any sissy bard would have left by then and the fighter bard would have found a way out. That's a small fragment of the world.
And I wouldn't be so sure there aren't elements of bard hidden. Take cain forinstance. Telling stories is one of the arts bard do. So all you have to do is get people to listen to him and he's close to a bard.

Bard is to support oriented, making it independantly survivable would be hard without bending strings.

That's again assuming the standard representation of the bard. The bard is just an idea that has very few parameters.
A bard is a person performs vocals arts for a living and for his own advantage by manipulating people.

And for me, that's it. You can combine it with many things like forinstance a thieves class.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, I agree that it will probably not make the game and that there are other classes that fit the game better, however, if everyone is going to think like they have been thinking for the last 50 year, all we'll get is a very boring game that has been done to death.

[Flux]

From the OP:
When I think of a Bard, I think of nature and music... and that creepy guy that played the flute and made all the rats attack townsfolk.
The problem with a bard is the musical nature is kind of absurd in a battle sequence. I read one of the Bard's Tale's fantasy novels last year (random library pick up) and it wasn't awful, but the whole, "Oh noes, here comes monsters. Let me get out my harp." aspect of things is kind of ludicrous. And sure, barding stuff is basically aura/curse type spell effect, it's just the "with the aid of musical instrument" aspect is kind of silly/impractical in combat setting.


Sierra had an idea for a bard and how it work in the world of Diablo. Yes before you start flaming i know Hellfire was not made by blizzard, but blizzard would not let them do something they would not agree with, i am sure sierra had to get approval from blizzard with everything. Not saying Barf is going to be in the next diablo, but it deffantly has a fair chance.

Admittedly, I just had a rum & pepsi with nachos, but I LOLed at that typo. Bolded here for empahsis.

On the issue of what Sierra did or didn't put into Hellfire, they were working with bliz, but mostly in terms of having things approved or not. blizzard North didn't hate Hellfire, or wish it never existed, but you'll note that it's never been mentioned on the blizzard site, it's not in the diablo battlechest, and it's essentially impossible to buy these days. it was a glorified 3rd party expansion pack, made without any real input from blizzard, and there's a reason the bard and barb were hidden characters; they're not official or supported. Partially since they had talents (dual wielding, 2h weapons in one hand, +resistance naturally, weapon upgrades, etc) that were things bliz north was going to include in d2 and didn't want spoiled in advance.

It can be useful to compare the HF chars for general RPG inspiration, but I don't think their composition has any impact on what blizzard is or is not doing with d3.

While I don't have any real formulated guesses about the 4th/5th chars, it's obvious that we've got to have some kind of archer/ranged attacker, and most likely a paladin-esque light melee/party skills char. I don't think the d3 team set out to create chars that filled all the basic rpg roles the 5 original d2 chars filled, but it certainly looks like it's working out that way. accidentally or not.

[lunarleif]

How are you going to fight with a lute? How would that even be in there and if so, lute in one hand, sword in the other?

[Technomancer]

Why in the hell does he have to play a lute!!??! Lol!! Why not sing!? Besides, words have power too! I could totally see him wading into the hordes singing a heroic anthem that raises allies morale and abilities, or singing an ancient hymn of Light in a long forgotten tongue that causes undead and demons to reel in torment! Come on people, admit it, you just hate Bards in any context...

On a side note, I think there is plenty of room for 2 semi missile characters. You could have one class that is part missile, part one thing or two, and another that is part missile, part another thing or two. They are wanting a large skill spread for each class and there are already two casters, so why not? Have a heavy warrior that can also use missiles quite well and a more esoteric, caster/support/curse/stealth class that uses missiles as well, or any variety of class types. I think it's too predictable that each Diablo so far has only had one ranged weapon class (not counting Throwbarbs and Burizas :) ). To be honest, I'm expecting two, at least psuedo-, ranged weapon users this time around. At least after the inevitable Expansion...

[peasant]

Why in the hell does he have to play a lute!!??! Lol!! Why not sing!? Besides, words have power too! I could totally see him wading into the hordes singing a heroic anthem that raises allies morale and abilities, or singing an ancient hymn of Light in a long forgotten tongue that causes undead and demons to reel in torment! Come on people, admit it, you just hate Bards in any context...

I think the main problems against a Bard is not so much flavor but technical issues. It would get annoying very quickly to have a character chanting/singing/whatever the same lines over and over again for hours on end. Of course, they could have the Bard sing one line as he casts a spell but that sounds a little hokey, doesn't it? Moreover, it gets in the way of the game's music/score and I can't see Blizzard doing that.

In addition, even the name 'Bard' has its fair share of problems. It'd be the 'Dervish' all over again. Non-D&D players wouldn't immediately know what it does other than singing will likely figure somewhere.

[commonhumans]

lunarleif, please go back and read my original post and the replies so far, I don't think you read it (at least not the whole thing) because I've explained a bunch of the questions you keep asking.

I get the fact that you don't like/want the Bard in D3, there are other too but to drag on this pointless forum feud is, well, pointless. Lets agree to disagree... this is just speculation.

[lunarleif]

Alright, sorry about the lute. Maybe he could play a flute :D ? Sorry, had to say that. Now I know that you've already put down the instruments, but a bard is not a bard without a instrument. Or at least juggling. A bard that sings doesn't really work, though a storytelling one does.
If it is just speculation, are we not allowed to comment? A bard would be fun to play with friends, to make a complete party. However, I like to play a completely self sufficient character that can play by himself without buffing himself constantly, as that takes from gameplay. I seem to have heard someone from Blizzard talking about letting you keep fighting. I think that's the reason health globes (balls, orbs, etc?) were put in the demo. Bards are almost too unoriginal for a game like Diablo without having a past reference in the series or just a huge enough presence to be accepted. Barbarian was in the days when most things were original. Witch doctor, has that ever been done? And wizard is so widespread it's no crime to use it. Finally, I could just not play the bard, but that means that there are only 4 characters I can play :(
He just wants to sing!!!!

[squid knight]

A Pirate totally needs to have a gun though.

Not a machine gun or a grenade launcher like the Somali pirates, but definitely a flintlock pistol, like they had in the days of high-seas adventure on the Spanish Main.

That could be really cool and explorable design space though.

At his lower levels, his aim would be poor and reload time would be slow. You could have a fast-reloading skill and a marksmanship skill to make his shooting better.

I'm not sure how I would play. Dual pistols? Sword and pistol? Sword and saber? All seem plausible for a Pirate class.

How awesome a "Shore Bombardment" skill be? You just click and his ship from off-screen pummels the area with cann0n ballz.

Pirates DON'T need to have a gun, a pirate that fits into the diablo universe wouldn't have one. Going by a pirate being a boat guy who steals from other boats on the sea, you're pretty much limited to non-magical combat, the majority of which is probably melee. there's really a lot of freedom to develop pirate mechanics.

i doubt that they're likely to be implemented, but nor would i completely rule them out...they could easily fit into the lore and the environment/theme.

Bards have always been people who sing and do tricks. Not really fighters. In many games they have been support characters that basically boost strength. Furthermore, at the heat of a battle, Rogue camp, in the weird jungles, the deserts, and Mount Arreat, there was never a single bard. No story collecting practicing bards, nada. They would also be like paladin's with their aka bard's songs.

The only requirement for bards is that they use music somehow...that's not very limiting, and by no means necessarily a support role. though, i do imagine the bard would use a bow. the basic shape of a bow and a string instrument is the same (long piece of wood with string tied to either end along its length). i also tend to think of a bard of quick and nimble, of course, deftly engaging in either his art or combat rather than brute strength. he could easily fit into either the ranger or thief/rogue niche, or both.

i know that the bard is used a lot in other games and is pretty much the same anywhere he appears, but he need not fit into that stereotype in the diablo universe (and in fact can't if he is to appear there at all). of course he doesn't use his instruments as weapons. of course he doesn't play music on the battlefield.

for example, a skill might be:

Percussion- The bard bashed the opponent several times with the hilt of his weapon (as if he's playing drums on their skulls). or really any attack performed in quick succession like that. maybe he just stabs with dual wielded daggers repeatedly, alternating hands. whatever. but it would be called percussion.

there's absolutely no reason they can't make a bard work if they wanted to. whether they do want to or not is another story, though...

[Technomancer]

Well, the stereotypical Necromancer that everyone immediately thinks of certainly isn't typical "hero" material, but they were able to think outside the box, re-invent him, and viola: a favorite class for many, many people! I would probably play a Bard over the Barbarian or Witch Doctor, for what it's worth. Just because some people wouldn't like something doesn't mean a lot of other people wouldn't love it. Looks like a lot of people aren't liking the Witch Doctor cause it "doesn't fit". My objection to the Pirate is basically the same thing: *I* don't think it would fit and *I* probably wouldn't like to play one, but I think it *could* be done up very well, could be made to fit, and a lot of people would love it. Despite my objection, I'm not bound and determined to shoot it down.

I do agree, actually hearing the songs all the time would suck balls! :D How about some trigger sound, like a musical chord related to the type of song, followed by different looking types of musical notes coming up from the Bards head while his mouth moves. I mean, you don't actually hear the Barb screaming his Warcries while they're in effect.

[peasant]

The only requirement for bards is that they use music somehow...that's not very limiting, and by no means necessarily a support role. though, i do imagine the bard would use a bow. the basic shape of a bow and a string instrument is the same (long piece of wood with string tied to either end along its length). i also tend to think of a bard of quick and nimble, of course, deftly engaging in either his art or combat rather than brute strength. he could easily fit into either the ranger or thief/rogue niche, or both.

i know that the bard is used a lot in other games and is pretty much the same anywhere he appears, but he need not fit into that stereotype in the diablo universe (and in fact can't if he is to appear there at all). of course he doesn't use his instruments as weapons. of course he doesn't play music on the battlefield.

If he neither carries musical instruments nor sings in the battlefield, then how exactly would that make him a Bard?

Percussion- The bard bashed the opponent several times with the hilt of his weapon (as if he's playing drums on their skulls). or really any attack performed in quick succession like that. maybe he just stabs with dual wielded daggers repeatedly, alternating hands. whatever. but it would be called percussion.

No offense, but that's really stretching for a musical link. That's simply giving a music-related name to an ability that on its own (meaning: without the name) wouldn't illicit a connection with music.

I think a far better idea would be to create a Wardancer instead. He could be a cooldown-based character whose abilities form a beat. His fighting style would feature high mobility, plenty of blocks and dodges as well as critical strikes. Weapons of choice would be most melee weapons and Capoeira-style maneuvers.

[LaZeR]

LOL This has become a Bard discussion.

I, personally, have to say I too didn't think the Bard would fit in D3, but after reading some posts here I must change my main.
I basically think of him as a Paladin, with songs as Auras, and more emphasis on quick some weapon melee attacks, making him your Fast Melee Char.

That's seems to me like it would actually work very well.

[lunarleif]

If the original person seriously wants us to stop bickering, or anyone else for that matter, why not create a bard with lore, skills, etc? I would myself but I don't like the idea so that would influence it and I'm still new.

[commonhumans]

Fiiiirst let me apologize for sounding like a douche in my last post, long day at work dealing with stupid people and I was getting over protective about my ideas haha. Its not bickering its good forum banter... besides devils advocates are what makes things better. Always room for improvement.

So yeah. Sorry about that.

I think I'm gong to go back and recompile of the information and speculation on this thread into a new post with better worked out stuff and more in-depth character creation. If anyone wants to help throw me a PM or catch me on AIM. I think ill probably start working on it tonight.

[LaZeR]

Good luck. Sounds like a worthy project.
I'll try to create a Bard and see how it works..

[captain]

Agreed. That was a great post by CH. I feel that a merc. will be there next because of both lore and balance. Lore. At 20 yrs past there are sure to be lots of heros out there trying to make it by after the whole world stone fiasco. Balance. Because is seems logical that blizzard gives us a chacter that could use a bunch of diff. skills to get the job done. a merc. would give some nice variation. What kind of merc would you be?

[Technomancer]

Yeah, we need to get off the Bard argument. Sorry, I'm responsible too.

This thread is based some some really interesting approaches and should be continued. A new post would be cool, I tend to trail off after about 5 pages anyways... :)

@LaZeR: I've actually been working on a Bard class for the last few days. It's actually derailed another class I'm working on (!), but I'm nearly done, I have a bunch of skills, but the 3rd tree is a little light...

[commonhumans]

Cool, thanks for the support guys. Its going to be a hell of a task putting this all in order and the new post is probably going to end up being twice as long as the original, so i hope you are ready to read.

Lazer and Techno, When you finish up those classes and post them and throw a link on this thread so I can pull them into the new post. Proper credit will be given anyone who has made valuable input on this thread that ends up on the new post.

First thing to correct on the new post, the misspelling of "Rouge" :thumbup:

Thanks again everyone.

[LaZeR]

Yeah, we need to get off the Bard argument. Sorry, I'm responsible too.

This thread is based some some really interesting approaches and should be continued. A new post would be cool, I tend to trail off after about 5 pages anyways... :)

@LaZeR: I've actually been working on a Bard class for the last few days. It's actually derailed another class I'm working on (!), but I'm nearly done, I have a bunch of skills, but the 3rd tree is a little light...

Really?
What have you been thinking?
I was thinking of skills of 2 main Tree concept:
1. Combat- Fast, close and small weapon Melee (Which will make the Bard the fast melee char)
2. Songs- Both for AeO damage skill and buff.
And I was stuck on the 3rd Tree as well. Maybe make him some kind of Elf/Druid and have him:
3. Woodlyn Creatures- Making him either a Summoner or, my choice, range spell that come in form of Woodlyn Creatures, like the WD frogs and spiders spells.

What did you have in mind?

[Technomancer]

Really?
What have you been thinking?
I was thinking of skills of 2 main Tree concept:
1. Combat- Fast, close and small weapon Melee (Which will make the Bard the fast melee char)
2. Songs- Both for AeO damage skill and buff.
And I was stuck on the 3rd Tree as well. Maybe make him some kind of Elf/Druid and have him:
3. Woodlyn Creatures- Making him either a Summoner or, my choice, range spell that come in form of Woodlyn Creatures, like the WD frogs and spiders spells.

What did you have in mind?

Yeah, the first 2 are pretty much what I got, but for the 3rd, I was going for skills like spells, trickery, and cleverness. I thought about the woodland creatures thing too (sorta ;) ), but I thought that would be the WD's domain.

Anyways, I posted it just now and here's the link to my Bard class (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=731051). Hope you guys like it!!

[commonhumans]

Okay I'm still working on redoing my original post.
Its up to like 7 page in MS Office Word.
Its gonna be a lot to flippin read... i hope you are all ready.

If all goes well ill have it posted later tonight, or sometime tomorrow afternoon.

Back to work!

[LaZeR]

lol I really hope you'll make it shorter... (:

[lunarleif]

I think the longer the better :D
Oh god, I take that back.
I think that the longer the description is, the better.

[commonhumans]

It is done. Continue any conversation on this thread on the new thread located here (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=731225).

Thanks everyone.

[TheMightyShoe]

Moved post to commonhumans' new thread to avoid double-posting.