Why do we start with nothing?

[sorcererbob]

"Well met noble Paladin, its been a while since I've seen any of your kind in the West," says Warriv to the new born level 1 character. Let me ask you, how does Warriv know that he's a Paladin and not a town guard? He has but a sword and a shield, and no skills. What makes him a Paladin?

And let me ask you, whats the part of the game that most people dislike? How many times have you heard "I hate the early game, its so boring."? Why not start at level 1 with some skill points to invest? And if you're a warrior, wouldn't you be wearing some boots and stuff?

So here is my proposal: Level 1. A few skill points to invest. Some random crappy magic items. Would it take away from the game at all? No! You'd just avoid that needless waltz around the Blood Moor beating things with sticks. It would allow you to get right into the action.

Sorry if this is a reiteration on what someone has already said. I did try searching for it a bit.

[Nimbostratus]

This would most definitely be helpful. On the same note, the low level skills need to all be VASTLY different from each other- one of my biggest problems with D2 is that until level 18 or so, almost every attacking skill is either "basic projectile that does damage" or "normal attack with some side effect." What's the point of a skill that, in terms of gameplay, is no different than normal attack/throw?

[In the name of Zod]

I can see the rationality to your thinking sorcererbob however after you've made 20-30 characters even your solution will seem lame. I'd say more randomisation is in order to make the start-game more interesting.

[sorcererbob]

Randomisation in what way? As in the starting areas, the equipment you get and the enemies you kill?

I'm for those things.

[kavlor]

Because it gives something to look forward to straight away.Give chars a few decent items in the begining and the items that drop wont seem so exciting.See how people jump on chipped emeralds because they give a major boost at the early levels(or any chipped gems really) then you've got those throwing potions that help a great deal.You need that contrast and the more stages of contrast the more exciting a game is.

Besides if you've played the game so many times that you find the early stages boring then you can always twink.

Oh I must add theres a certain D2 mod that does exactely this,gives your chars some early gear but at the same time makes a lot of the early drops useless.

[PahaLukki]

This would most definitely be helpful. On the same note, the low level skills need to all be VASTLY different from each other- one of my biggest problems with D2 is that until level 18 or so, almost every attacking skill is either "basic projectile that does damage" or "normal attack with some side effect." What's the point of a skill that, in terms of gameplay, is no different than normal attack/throw?

Yeah and then the game is rigged so that unless you specialize in one of these attacks and get a mana leech ring, well, your basic attack is just not going to cut it. Maybe some skills that try not too hard to be the basic attack, and let the basic attack be the basic attack, and make the skills more like special skills for special situations... instead of just "hit harder - 2 mana"...

On the topic, I like the idea, especially if there is going to be less loot around and more crafting at the smithy anyway. Then it won't be so obvious to just run some version of blood moor and equip the first quilted armor from a quill rat.. as if rat's wear armor anyway...

[RogueJuggalo]

"Well met noble Paladin, its been a while since I've seen any of your kind in the West," says Warriv to the new born level 1 character. Let me ask you, how does Warriv know that he's a Paladin and not a town guard? He has but a sword and a shield, and no skills. What makes him a Paladin?

And let me ask you, whats the part of the game that most people dislike? How many times have you heard "I hate the early game, its so boring."? Why not start at level 1 with some skill points to invest? And if you're a warrior, wouldn't you be wearing some boots and stuff?

So here is my proposal: Level 1. A few skill points to invest. Some random crappy magic items. Would it take away from the game at all? No! You'd just avoid that needless waltz around the Blood Moor beating things with sticks. It would allow you to get right into the action.

Sorry if this is a reiteration on what someone has already said. I did try searching for it a bit.

I think this is a really good idea. You wouldn't need every slot filled with a magic item though, some could be low quality like a cracked sash. This would add to the cool randomization aspect to keep things interesting and at the same time you wouldn't pass up the chance to pick up a normal or superior sash to replace the cracked one you started with.

[stillman]

To answer the first question, the paladin would have his symbol on his chest or w/e, and his arival would be the talk of the town, so that's how Warriv knows who he is.

I think it would be realistic to have a plain sash, boots, cloth cap, quilted armor as mentioned one post above. We can clearly see our characters on the screen are not barefoot and they are wearing clothes. It would feel cool to take that stuff off and replace it with the magic stuff that drops early on.

[JonoLith]

I can see how this could be sort of tricky from a design standpoint. The benefit of slowly giving players a single point every time they level is that they don't feel overwhelmed by the choices that they've got. It's easier for a play to place one single point then it is for them to place five or ten points.

I wouldn't really be opposed to the placing of a single point, to get people kick started.

Then again... with a respec system in place that isn't stupid, my complaint becomes somewhat moot.

[blikst]

Maybe I could see getting a single skill point or already having one basic skill assigned from the start. As for magical items, I say no. It wouldn't really help you much and it would take away the excitement of getting your first magical drops.

[Taddl]

i agree with the guy aboth me.
u start at lvl1 so it would be reasonable and cool to start with 1 unasigned skillpoint :) i can imagine that bashing through the first few monster would really be more fun this way

but i want to find all of my chars equipment myself, getting excited about my cool new armor with "attacker takes damage of 2" :) or my first offhand-wizzard-globe giving me +1 to spectralblade :)

[paperkut]

I'd actually prefer to go in the opposite direction. I hope they make us go out naked AND weaponless and do some boxing for our first weapon. You want to keep things interesting early on? How about having no idea what your first few weapons will be? You might get an axe, you might get a bow...who knows. Now THAT sounds exciting.

As for the skill point,no thanks. You'll level up and get that first skill point in no time anyway. We're not starting with a silver spoon in our mouth, we gotta EARN those skill points.

[CombatShrine]

I completely agree with the OP.

Starting naked flat-out sucks. At the very least, the first quest of the game should be doling out phat lewt, not 1 skill point that (in all likelihood) is just going to get saved for later anyways.

[RighteousRyan]

I believe in Deus-Ex you start out with some points to sort of sculpt what kind of player you want to play.

I understand about this, but in reality, you are only level 1-18 for about one-two hours or even less. The way I level my characters I usually end up with a lvl 80 in one day. But that is D2. Its less about having fun with just gameplay and more about competition with the best to get the best stuff the fastest.

I hope D3 is fun even with just a short sword and buckler. And it probably will be, because it will all be new.

[Nahlraka]

I personally enjoy going out with nothing at all - I sell/drop all my starting items and duke it out in fist fights until I find a weapon [no matter what it is]. That way is much more fun than starting out with godly equipment. Then, when you find your first socketed weapon and an elemental chipped gem, it gets really exciting.

[Tarson]

Not like it would be hard to fight with out any items in the blood moor. A necro or sorc could punch the entire blood moor to death without drinking a potion. Why do would anyone want to make things easier then that?

[Moaf]

I also really like the beginning of the game. It's the start of the evolvement of the character. It's where every item you find matters.
The problem I have with the beginning is that it is just way too easy for experienced players. Therefore I hope that Blizzard will include an option at character creation where you can set the initial difficulty level. I want a challenge that starts at the very beginning of the journey - not after i have played the game through and "restart" the game with higher level/more equipment.

[fiero]

Yeah, why don't we just all start out with the best items in all slots. That way we don't have to progress at all, and can quit playing immediately.

Sarcasm aside, you need to start out a lowly weakling to appreciate the increase in power to come.

I mean, come on.

[LordOfStrategy]

I say, I disagree with one of your original points. To me, the beginning of a character is the most fun part!

I like the thrill of finding items which I know are of horrible quality yet are of great use to me.

[paperkut]

I also really like the beginning of the game. It's the start of the evolvement of the character. It's where every item you find matters.
The problem I have with the beginning is that it is just way too easy for experienced players. Therefore I hope that Blizzard will include an option at character creation where you can set the initial difficulty level. I want a challenge that starts at the very beginning of the journey - not after i have played the game through and "restart" the game with higher level/more equipment.

Yes, I too would love something like this implemented. Maybe having something along the lines of single player's /players 8. They could have a slider or something to increase the difficulty within a difficulty at game creation

[CrimsonBishop]

I like the idea of starting out completely naked and weaponless. The Diablo games are all about progression, and the rewards that the progression brings. In the very beginning on the game almost every item you find is better than what you started with. In my opinion, the first few levels are the most rewarding (and some of the most fun) because you are getting so much stronger with each item you find and each level you gain.

Starting with gear and skill points will only minimize the progression and reward of low level characters. The boredom doesn't really set in until your progression slows down and then the game becomes less rewarding. The answer to this should not be to make you start with a stronger or better equipped character, it should be to make low level skills and low level monsters more interesting.

[jhtvman]

Not like it would be hard to fight with out any items in the blood moor. A necro or sorc could punch the entire blood moor to death without drinking a potion. Why do would anyone want to make things easier then that?
It's not about making it easy, it's about making it less boring.

That said, I disagree with the OP. I think it's best to start out with only one or two very basic, low quality items and work your way up from there. Some of the best fun in the game is the earlier levels when you find that low level rare that all of a sudden makes you much stronger than you were before.

[Doctor Salvador]

Starting off with a couple skill points to mess around with, plus a suit of armor and whatnot would make the beginning boring IMO. Leveling up for the first time would be a little less thrilling, 'cause your character is already started up. Of course, however you start, it won't matter after five or so levels anyway.

The only thing I wanna start with is my character's name.

[Oldih]

Maybe having something along the lines of single player's /players 8.

Only real problem is that the way D2 is, even with players 8 and normal difficulty in single player you can pretty much go to Black Marsh or Inner Cloister before you even start noticing that you do have to watch out (unless you encounter LE enemy) even the basic enemies, anything before that is still fairly easy regardless of your class.

I have one suggestiong for this thing: Make it as unfair, raining-on-your-parade as it was in D1. That way by the time you get past the first areas of the game you feel like you've actually accomplished something.

Too bad that kind of game design these days would be labelled as 'poor'.