View Full Version : Health bars
GuardianHadriel
16-06-2009, 21:38
This subject is so obvious that it must have been brought up on an earlier thread, if that is the case, i´m sorry:thumbup:
I prefer the way healthbars appeared in D2. There was a health bar on the top-center of the screen and iside the bar The monsters name stood. The problem with this type of health bar is that it´s more difficult to see exactly what monster you are hitting, but then again the monsters are slightly highlighted and who needs to know more than the monsters name.
The type of healt bar now is almost exactly like in wc3 where there is a line above the monsters head that grows smaller for each hit. It can be confusing too see these health bars moving around the screen and even though it is better than the old type in this matter it´s hard to see which monsters you´re targeting.
Here are a couple of pictures to show you the differences:
D3 Health bar
http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1717&size=big&cat=599
D2 Health bar
http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=175&cat=502&size=big
My point is that it´s not that much better and the old one is better looking. If you can come up with anything that´s better with the old one, please type it below:punk:
Brandonn
16-06-2009, 21:56
I just rewatched the gameplay vid and I think it looks fine. It didn't move around, it just seemed to follow the mouse, and the bar does decrease, but it still has an outline do you can see the amount of live left.
I prefer them to be out of the way on the top of the screen; however, many might like them how they are, so IMO the game should allow you to choose where the health bar is displayed in the UI settings.
Also you should be able to hide them completely.
GuardianHadriel
16-06-2009, 22:25
so IMO the game should allow you to choose where the health bar is displayed in the UI settings.
So we´ve found a solution:thumbup:
Jedouard
16-06-2009, 22:26
It would be best if there are several options for players: no bars, one bar at the top of the screen, one bar above the head of the moused-over monster, bars above the heads of all of the monsters, and, either in place of bars or within the bar itself, the option for the number and/or percentage of health left. In this way, you can satisfy everyone from pure atmospheric players to the penny-pinchers (referring to saving mana, fury and what not). Ideally there would be some way to give all of this information for each monster without having it encroach on the feeling of the game or the visual playability, but I am at a loss for it, and I imagine Blizzard is too. The best I can come up with is having the monsters show their damage with their appearance and behaviour/movement, but this would be a large drag on system performance.
Starving_Poet
16-06-2009, 22:50
I'd like to just get rid of this antiquated health bar idea and make monsters that are near death be lacking limbs, stumbling, just oozing pus, blood, gooey stuff, and.. you know.. look like they're getting the snot beat out of them.
Kiroptus
17-06-2009, 02:12
I think both could be implemented as an option, we can have the best of both worlds.
The idea behind the new health bar concept is that you aren't fully watching the action around your character. In the case of D2, you are forced to glance up at the top of the screen to see how much health an enemy has left, whereas in D3's health system your cursor, which you are watching anyways, is able to show how much health a monster has left. Although is does it only for a split second, it still removes you from the action.
I think the D3 health bar system does work better but we've become so accustomed to the D2 system (after many of us have been playing for 7+ years) that we don't recognize the nuisance. A counter argument could be that the health bars somewhat cover the action, but they are relatively small and at least you aren't drawn away from what's happening around your character.
Once we start playing D3, there will be many tweaks where we'll think "why did they change that?" but in the end it will have enhanced the overall gameplay. But hey, that's just my opinion.
Firvagor
17-06-2009, 02:57
I'll deal with it either way, but I think with the "new" system you'd also run into the same issue of not knowing who's being targeted, especially in tighter groups. The fact that you don't have to look away from the combat zone seems appealing, and I could certainly get used to that.
Plus, at least for me, I sometimes find the health bar at the top of the screen hard to read because there's more glare than the center. :p
EDIT: Another thought: A problem with this system could be monsters that are partially off-screen. For example, if something is near the top of the screen, the health bar wouldn't be visible, partially visible for something on the side. That is, unless the bar is bound to the cursor and changes where it pops up based on monster location.
Why should they force UI interface right in the exact spot I'm looking? Sure it's the most convient place to see, but when you've put that much work into making good looking game, a few glances to the top of the screen to rid the game of the little floating bars over the enemies heads seems well worth it to me.
Also, how often do you fight an enemy long enough to really be concerned about it's remaining health? Unless you bump into a rare spawned enemy or boss the average heath bar is not even worth watching. I really don't want something blocking the action when it's only worth looking at less than 20% of the time.
What if a health bar indicator was built into the mouse pointer !? :smug: That would be less intrusive than either of the normal setups, since that space is already being used for the most necessary UI component in the game. The mouse pointer could have either a short health bar cutting though it or it could fade into different colors based on the remaining heath of whatever your pointing at?
What if a health bar indicator was built into the mouse pointer !? :smug:
Wicked idea. While reading through the thread I was trying to think of a better way to do the health bar. You hit the nail on the head. I can't remember what game I've seen this in, but it works well. I think it would suit D3 very well, catering to each complaint against the previous and new health bars.
I'd like to just get rid of this antiquated health bar idea and make monsters that are near death be lacking limbs, stumbling, just oozing pus, blood, gooey stuff, and.. you know.. look like they're getting the snot beat out of them.
Winner here. Although it wouldn't give you accurate indicator of monster health but would it be a bad thing? Do you need hp bards for the mobs that just live to die in various cool ways?
Maybe a % indicator next to the larger monster name. But i kinda hate the healthbar clutter many games have... like in warcraft 3 your army is just a bunch of walking healthbars.
Starving_Poet
17-06-2009, 19:00
Winner here. Although it wouldn't give you accurate indicator of monster health but would it be a bad thing? Do you need hp bards for the mobs that just live to die in various cool ways?
Maybe a % indicator next to the larger monster name. But i kinda hate the healthbar clutter many games have... like in warcraft 3 your army is just a bunch of walking healthbars.
I really don't think removal of an exact indicator is a bad thing - It's one of those things in these games that really breaks the immersion for me.
Risingred
17-06-2009, 19:53
If they give me the option to turn off health bars, I'll take it.
In the previous two diablo games, I'd just watch the monster's outline as it changes from green to orange to red. That was enough of an indication to me.
SlobbyRobbie
17-06-2009, 20:18
I prefer them to be out of the way on the top of the screen; however, many might like them how they are, so IMO the game should allow you to choose where the health bar is displayed in the UI settings.
Also you should be able to hide them completely.
I think that this is by far the best option. Wouldn't be too hard for the team to implement either.
Firvagor
18-06-2009, 01:48
In the previous two diablo games, I'd just watch the monster's outline as it changes from green to orange to red. That was enough of an indication to me.
I actually never really noticed that (at least in D2), and unless I'm in the vast minority, I don't think that would be very effective unless it was a highlight when hovering the cursor over something, or if it was a more noticeable highlight/outline color distinction.
paperkut
18-06-2009, 03:05
But i kinda hate the healthbar clutter many games have... like in warcraft 3 your army is just a bunch of walking healthbars.
Ya, the last thing i want to see in d3 is an army of health bars.
Knight VII, i really like the concept of the mouse pointer as a health bar of some sort. For most baddies it really doesn't matter if you know their health or not. For the few that it actually does I don't think sliding your cursor over to check would be an inconvenience. Best of all it'd keep health bar armies out of the picture.
SlechtWeerBeer
18-06-2009, 15:56
I actually never really noticed that (at least in D2), and unless I'm in the vast minority, I don't think that would be very effective unless it was a highlight when hovering the cursor over something, or if it was a more noticeable highlight/outline color distinction.
That indicator only occured when the monster took damage, iirc, and wasn't really reliable (I've seen green outlines on near-dead bosses on a few occasions).
Firvagor
18-06-2009, 16:11
That indicator only occured when the monster took damage, iirc...
Yeah, what I meant to say was the "new" outline would appear as long as the cursor is hovering over something, so it would be a little easier to make distinctions between monsters via highlighting without being too intrusive (not sure if you thought I was referring to the D2 outlines). Of course, then there's the issue of tight mobs again where some might be hidden enough to not be targetable.
PahaLukki
18-06-2009, 16:53
I kinda liked how it was in D1, you got this target screen for your mouse, so there would read if your cursor was on a ring, or on a monster, which would then display hp and special information regarding the monster..... The actual game environment was relatively free of texts or bars or other indicators...
It would be very short-sighted of Blizzard not to include various display options for the health bars (as Jedouard suggested). Hopefully they realize this. If not, I'm sure enough people can make a stink that it will become an option after later patches.
TheWhetherMan
19-06-2009, 20:27
Players should have several options. I don't like having vital info at opposite edges of the screen, so I'd go with the bar floating near the target.
I'm a big fan of the new health bars. And my adoration for them was enforced not even a day ago. I was playing Diablo II, fighting Diablo with my Assassin -- glanced up to check his health while changing a skill -- glanced back at the action only to realize I was being killed by his lightning death mega attack (or whatever it's called). Had the life bar been above Diablo himself, my Assassin wouldn't of had a near death experience.
I'd also hope that they (Blizzard) would include a "see all" option to display all the health bars of all the monsters on screen. If assigned to a shortcut, would be nice to quickly see everyone's health in the middle of battle, and not just who you were targeting.
SlechtWeerBeer
20-06-2009, 21:50
I'm a big fan of the new health bars. And my adoration for them was enforced not even a day ago. I was playing Diablo II, fighting Diablo with my Assassin -- glanced up to check his health while changing a skill -- glanced back at the action only to realize I was being killed by his lightning death mega attack (or whatever it's called). Had the life bar been above Diablo himself, my Assassin wouldn't of had a near death experience.
How many TVs do you use as a screen?
I can see both Diablo and the life bar just fine on a 1680*1050 resolution and 800*600 game settings.
Another possible good place for the monsters health bar would probably be the lower screen next to the remaining UI elements. No?
I mean, if I was asked between an hover health bar and a fixed one like in D2, I'd take the fixed one any day. I prefer my game screen to be as clean as possible. Health bars are ugly things that have no place on top of admirable monsters and scenery. And when they start moving around with the monster, my immediate thought is "ugh!".
I'd rather have them fixed. But I always thought they'd be a perfect complement to the UI at the bottom of the screen, since that is also where our own health bars are.
How many TVs do you use as a screen?
Aha. Funny. Not really. I do understand the situation is hard to comprehend with such a minimal field of action, so to elaborate...
I can see both Diablo and the life bar just fine on a 1680*1050 resolution and 800*600 game settings.
I'll clarify my situation so no one else gets confused. Diablo wasn't completely on my screen. He wasn't in the middle of my screen raining down death on my character. He was chasing a shadow and I was chasing him. Was Diablo on my screen? Yes. Was he fully visible? No. Glancing at his health, while changing to a more suitable melee skill set, I failed to realize Diablo turned on me in only a reaction's worth of time. I switched to my defensive gear while taking evasive maneuvers -- and found myself running at about 5% health with no shadow. A few potions later and a shadow recast, and I'm back at Diablo. Based on how Diablo 3's life bar system works, I would have been looking at Diablo and his health the entire time completely avoiding the situation.
Sometimes people get caught off guard like that, not just by Diablo either. It doesn't happen all the time, but the new health bar system should allow such situations to go unheard of. Thus, it has my vote.
Personally I can't stand games where you got all this involving and atmospheric graphics, and then when you move your mouse it turns into a modern day fighterplane HUD.
WoW ended up like this too, you never looked at the game but only at mathematical data the game was visualising.
No thx, minimalistic gameplay all the way. That's also were the skill is at.
Personally I can't stand games where you got all this involving and atmospheric graphics, and then when you move your mouse it turns into a modern day fighterplane HUD.
WoW ended up like this too, you never looked at the game but only at mathematical data the game was visualising.
No thx, minimalistic gameplay all the way. That's also were the skill is at.
I think only the most necessary information should be visable on the screen. I agree with Cable on the health bar. It's definately better than in D2. As for other thing like we have seen I could do without, like the damage showing.
The new health bar will be better for the fast pace of the gameplay with bigger resolutions than in D2. It would be difficult to keep focus in the action and try to look at the health bar that is 800 pixels away from the action.
While moving your sight to up the monster that you have the mouse on have moved and thers another target or what not.. This even happens in d2 sometimes.
Risingred
23-06-2009, 16:11
Personally I can't stand games where you got all this involving and atmospheric graphics, and then when you move your mouse it turns into a modern day fighterplane HUD.
I'm with Felix. Although, I do like how the boss health bars stay at the top of the screen, even if they aren't targeted. I like that a lot, actually, and I would want an option to hide all the bars except for the boss bars.
To quote Bashiok's latest forum post:
I think we essentially agree with you. The floaty 'above creature' health bars raised a few different concerns and they've since been changed. Health bars for uniques and bosses are displayed at the top, and health bars for everything else are displayed at the bottom (both stationary). It works well, it's all out of the way but still accessible if needed and more importantly you can keep an eye on boss/unique health as well as any lesser minions you happen to be fighting.
:smug: I'm happy with this! I hope we can disable the bottom bar, which will pretain to the easy enemies.
GuardianHadriel
24-06-2009, 00:14
My prayers got answered!!!:D
Kentalicious
24-06-2009, 01:01
dont you think people will have addons for that... or do you think they wont support that?
I dont think blizzard will support UI modifications for D3..
I don't think there will be different UI adds either. In WoW it was okay, because the freaking UI takes 75% of the screen, another 20% of the screen is floating numbers and the rest is for an actual 'picture' of what's going on, usually consists of blast effects from you and the rest of your raid team, lol.
In diablo they're trying to make the 'ideal' UI that is both small and convinient.
its good that thier tweeking this little stuff. maybe ther getting clost to a release
its good that thier tweeking this little stuff. maybe ther getting clost to a release
Hhoho not close I think!
When they announce that beta will start in about ½ years ... after beta has ended we can expect about ½ waiting time.. depending how much they need to fix and balance the game.
Starving_Poet
25-06-2009, 17:15
we still have a good 15 months left
I was hoping they would keep the health bars on screen like on the demo, where the monsters you attack have their health bars show up.
Mad Mantis
27-06-2009, 13:45
I was hoping they would keep the health bars on screen like on the demo, where the monsters you attack have their health bars show up.
While I like this change to the health bars I'm hoping that Blizz will implement a toggle whether you want them off-screen or on-screen. As a gamer I want options not something defined for me.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.